"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet.

I'm here for brothels if male NPCs can be sex workers, too. They never seem to be....

:huh: Not sure if serious?

In DAO you are asked if you want male, female, other, or surprise.

In DA2, even if you don't partake of the services, Jethann is a male elf who works there. He's part of the Kirkwall killer quest so you had to have talked to him at least once.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 20:31:22 GMT Kymira, q5tyhj, and 4 more like this

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 20:31:22 GMT

I'm here for brothels if male NPCs can be sex workers, too. That our PC could sleep with.

Actually... it'd be kind of funny to see the reaction if Bioware was like "Okay, you know what? You'll get a brothel!" - and filled it only with male prostitutes.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:03:49 GMT via mobile cloud9 likes this

Post by warrior on Oct 14, 2017 21:03:49 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 20:29:10 GMT melbella said:

I'm here for brothels if male NPCs can be sex workers, too. They never seem to be....

:huh: Not sure if serious?

In DAO you are asked if you want male, female, other, or surprise.

In DA2, even if you don't partake of the services, Jethann is a male elf who works there. He's part of the Kirkwall killer quest so you had to have talked to him at least once.

I haven't played either game in like 5 yrs and forgot that you could do it in older DA games. They're all a blur currently.
My most recent brothel memories are from TW3 which are def 100% het women.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 21:05:16 GMT by warrior

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:15:41 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 21:15:41 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 15:16:32 GMT rras1994 said:

Oct 14, 2017 14:36:31 GMT majesticjazz said:

How so?

In all seriousness, my theory is this.

Before Bioware was willing to do certain things with their games, but due to the new personalities on their teams, there is a different type of influence.

I forgot which game (Dragon Age or Mass Effect) but the story has it that during a production meeting, one of the females on the team displayed disgust with certain elements in the game. It was suggested that if left in the game, it would or could sour the female players if they perceived it a certain way. As a result, Bioware took the content out, despite the same/similar content being in previous games.

Everything you said there was wrong. It was DAI, the writers were getting together feedback on their work. After one of the guys had said his work, one of the other writers (who was female - this was ONLY brought up by David Gaider as the value of having diverse writers as they are more likely to be able to point out different thiongs from another angle- also no mention of disgust) mentioned how it could be misconstrued as rape. The writer was NOT trying to write a rape scene, had accidently written one, so they changed it. It wasn't fixed because of "female players" (I actually think it would have been happening to male players), and it had nothing to do with female writers wanting to change Biowares tone.

When you write things like this, it almost seems like you are trying to suggest that women are trying to ruin your games. Funny that.

Yes, the character in that scene being raped wasn't a female NPC but the player character. The scene was that after defeating the Envy Demon you go back to Skyhold and Leliana tries to seduce you and you sleep with her. However you would later learn this was all a fake world like what the Envy Demon puts you through earlier so the Inquisitor was raped by the Envy Demon thinking it was Leliana. As said, the writer didn't mean for it to be like that so it was removed.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 21:19:38 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:29:11 GMT

Post by melbella on Oct 14, 2017 21:29:11 GMT

Assuming your description is accurate....

You are seduced by a demon disguised as someone you know.....I don't know how you could interpret it any other way? What were they trying to convey, if not that? I assume this hallucination would take place while still at Therinfal, not actually back at Skyhold? Since the demon is defeated before you really go back to Skyhold, yes? Or maybe in this earlier version it wasn't and the whole rest of the game is a dream.

Interesting that they went there with Solas though. I really thought the whole Haven Fade dream was part of the romance since I romanced him in my first game. It's actually kind of creepy either way.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:35:46 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 21:35:46 GMT

Assuming your description is accurate....

You are seduced by a demon disguised as someone you know.....I don't know how you could interpret it any other way? What were they trying to convey, if not that? I assume this hallucination would take place while still at Therinfal, not actually back at Skyhold? Since the demon is defeated before you really go back to Skyhold, yes? Or maybe in this earlier version it wasn't and the whole rest of the game is a dream.

Interesting that they went there with Solas though. I really thought the whole Haven Fade dream was part of the romance since I romanced him in my first game. It's actually kind of creepy either way.

The hallucination involved beating the Envy Demon, getting the Templars, and heading back to Haven. Once there among other things like talking to your companions, Leliana would seduce you and you can choose to sleep with her or not. I think that is why the writer didn't see it as rape, since the player chose to do it or not but then the other writer pointed out how that is rape in the vein of rape by deception. Eventually you realize something is wrong and Cole helps snap you out of it like he does in the game, and you awake in Therinfal and the rest of the quest continues as we see in the final version.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 21:36:58 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:36:50 GMT

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 21:36:50 GMT

Assuming your description is accurate....

You are seduced by a demon disguised as someone you know.....I don't know how you could interpret it any other way? What were they trying to convey, if not that? I assume this hallucination would take place while still at Therinfal, not actually back at Skyhold? Since the demon is defeated before you really go back to Skyhold, yes? Or maybe in this earlier version it wasn't and the whole rest of the game is a dream.

Interesting that they went there with Solas though. I really thought the whole Haven Fade dream was part of the romance since I romanced him in my first game. It's actually kind of creepy either way.

Solas isn't pretending to be somebody else, so I don't see the connection...?

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:37:39 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 21:37:39 GMT

Assuming your description is accurate....

You are seduced by a demon disguised as someone you know.....I don't know how you could interpret it any other way? What were they trying to convey, if not that? I assume this hallucination would take place while still at Therinfal, not actually back at Skyhold? Since the demon is defeated before you really go back to Skyhold, yes? Or maybe in this earlier version it wasn't and the whole rest of the game is a dream.

Interesting that they went there with Solas though. I really thought the whole Haven Fade dream was part of the romance since I romanced him in my first game. It's actually kind of creepy either way.

Solas isn't pretending to be somebody else, so I don't see the connection...?

Well, he is. He's just not pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 21:38:31 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:42:55 GMT Exile Isan likes this

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 21:42:55 GMT

Solas isn't pretending to be somebody else, so I don't see the connection...?

Well, he is. He's just not pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you.

No, Solas is not pretending to be somebody else. Solas is Solas. He even states in Trespasser that he was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later and treats Dread Wolf as his mask, not the other way around.

You can argue that he didn't reveal the whole truth about who he was, and it would be true - but he wasn't pretending to be somebody else, especially not like in case of Envy impersonating Leliana. In fact it can be inferred that Inquisition was the first time in thousands of years when he could finally be himself, unwrapped from the mantle of ancient rebel elvhen hero/god.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:45:50 GMT

Post by melbella on Oct 14, 2017 21:45:50 GMT

Assuming your description is accurate....

You are seduced by a demon disguised as someone you know.....I don't know how you could interpret it any other way? What were they trying to convey, if not that? I assume this hallucination would take place while still at Therinfal, not actually back at Skyhold? Since the demon is defeated before you really go back to Skyhold, yes? Or maybe in this earlier version it wasn't and the whole rest of the game is a dream.

Interesting that they went there with Solas though. I really thought the whole Haven Fade dream was part of the romance since I romanced him in my first game. It's actually kind of creepy either way.

Solas isn't pretending to be somebody else, so I don't see the connection...?

Of course you wouldn't, because you like Solas. But someone invades my dreams, even someone I know, I'm not happy about it and want them out of my head. The only way to avoid the head hack is to not talk to Solas, or keep his approval so low it never comes up. Neither of which you are aware of in a first PT.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:47:35 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 21:47:35 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:42:55 GMT midnight tea said:

Well, he is. He's just not pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you.

No, Solas is not pretending to be somebody else. Solas is Solas. He even states in Trespasser that he was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later and treats Dread Wolf as his mask, not the other way around.

You can argue that he didn't reveal the whole truth about who he was, and it would be true - but he wasn't pretending to be somebody else, especially not like in case of Envy impersonating Leliana. In fact it can be inferred that Inquisition was the first time in thousands of years when he could finally be himself, unwrapped from the mantle of ancient rebel elvhen hero/god.

As you point out, he doesn't reveal the whole truth about himself. A lie of omission is still a lie, thus he is lying about who he is. He hides the fact that this whole thing is his fault, that he has killed countless people and plans to kill countless more. If he revealed that, my Inquisitor would never become romantically or sexually involved with him. So while yes he isn't as blatant as the Envy Demon is, he is still in that general group.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 21:48:06 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:48:33 GMT

Post by river82 on Oct 14, 2017 21:48:33 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:35:46 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

<snip>

Once there among other things like talking to your companions, Leliana would seduce you and you can choose to sleep with her or not. I think that is why the writer didn't see it as rape, since the player chose to do it or not but then the other writer pointed out how that is rape in the vein of rape by deception.

Here the writer in question is scared of a word. Knowing that it's rape in no way changes the details of the scene, he knew what the act was he just didn't know what the act was called. As soon as he knew it was "rape" by all reports he went "oh boy, didn't mean to write a rape scene." No, but he meant to write that scene which was rape and seems like only backed away due to a word.

When you start out as a writer people tell you that you need a certain sort of courage, you won't get very far by writing "safe". It's this sort of courage the writer in question lacked. Just my 2c

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:50:45 GMT

Post by KaiserShep on Oct 14, 2017 21:50:45 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 20:29:10 GMT melbella said:

I'm here for brothels if male NPCs can be sex workers, too. They never seem to be....

:huh: Not sure if serious?

In DAO you are asked if you want male, female, other, or surprise.

In DA2, even if you don't partake of the services, Jethann is a male elf who works there. He's part of the Kirkwall killer quest so you had to have talked to him at least once.

Hah even my Hawke hooked up with Jethann. He deserved the money.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:52:57 GMT Kymira, kitcat1228, and 1 more like this

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 21:52:57 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:45:50 GMT melbella said:

Solas isn't pretending to be somebody else, so I don't see the connection...?

Of course you wouldn't, because you like Solas. But someone invades my dreams, even someone I know, I'm not happy about it and want them out of my head. The only way to avoid the head hack is to not talk to Solas, or keep his approval so low it never comes up. Neither of which you are aware of in a first PT.

Please, cut the unnecessary ad hom. Just because I like Solas doesn't mean that I can't tell what he's doing or not doing.

And no, he's not invading our dream - YOU are invading his. When you approach him and tell him that you'd like to know him more... it all happens in a dream. And it's Inquisitor who's actually dreaming and entering his dream-space.

Granted, it is not clear and confused many players, but it's established through dialogue - fist that 'you continue to surprise me, but lets' go somewhere else', then, depending on class or relationship he tells you in the Fade that you shouldn't have been able to reach that level of dreaming to visit him, even as a mage and with the help of Anchor, and after he wakes Inky up and we go to talk with him after the scene and pick one or two dialogue options, he tells us explicitly that it's Inky who came searching for Solas in dreams, not the other way around.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 21:58:39 GMT

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 21:58:39 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:47:35 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Oct 14, 2017 21:42:55 GMT midnight tea said:

No, Solas is not pretending to be somebody else. Solas is Solas. He even states in Trespasser that he was Solas first, Fen'Harel came later and treats Dread Wolf as his mask, not the other way around.

You can argue that he didn't reveal the whole truth about who he was, and it would be true - but he wasn't pretending to be somebody else, especially not like in case of Envy impersonating Leliana. In fact it can be inferred that Inquisition was the first time in thousands of years when he could finally be himself, unwrapped from the mantle of ancient rebel elvhen hero/god.

As you point out, he doesn't reveal the whole truth about himself. A lie of omission is still a lie, thus he is lying about who he is. He hides the fact that this whole thing is his fault, that he has killed countless people and plans to kill countless more. If he revealed that, my Inquisitor would never become romantically or sexually involved with him. So while yes he isn't as blatant as the Envy Demon is, he is still in that general group.

It's still not the same thing like Envy impersonating Leliana. He's also not seducing Inquisitor, in fact he is highly reluctant and warns Inquisitor about complications and heartbreak and only goes with it if Lavellan is persistent in pursuing him and willing to take the risk, despite him obviously hiding something from us.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:03:04 GMT

Post by melbella on Oct 14, 2017 22:03:04 GMT

This is what Solas tells us so it must be true? All I know is, even after playing the game umpteen times, I never fall asleep and then go talk to Solas. I am wide awake, having just talked to countless other people, and go talk to Solas as part of my rounds. Next thing I know, I'm in dream Haven. :-/

The editing of this sequence isn't great because, for all I know, he could have konked me on the head so I'd pass out. No, I'm not saying that's what happened, but a little less creepy would be nice.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:07:24 GMT midnight tea, Hanako Ikezawa, and 2 more like this

Post by alanc9 on Oct 14, 2017 22:07:24 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:48:33 GMT river82 said:

Oct 14, 2017 21:35:46 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Once there among other things like talking to your companions, Leliana would seduce you and you can choose to sleep with her or not. I think that is why the writer didn't see it as rape, since the player chose to do it or not but then the other writer pointed out how that is rape in the vein of rape by deception.

Here the writer in question is scared of a word. Knowing that it's rape in no way changes the details of the scene, he knew what the act was he just didn't know what the act was called. As soon as he knew it was "rape" by all reports he went "oh boy, didn't mean to write a rape scene." No, but he meant to write that scene which was rape and seems like only backed away due to a word.

When you start out as a writer people tell you that you need a certain sort of courage, you won't get very far by writing "safe". It's this sort of courage the writer in question lacked. Just my 2c

I don't know where you're getting "scared" from. The writer was not said to have been scared of anything, except perhaps almost releasing an incompetently written scene that wouldn't produce the intended effect in a significant portion of the audience. The point of the peer review was that the scene didn't work.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 22:12:05 GMT by alanc9

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:11:04 GMT

Post by alanc9 on Oct 14, 2017 22:11:04 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 22:03:04 GMT melbella said:

This is what Solas tells us so it must be true? All I know is, even after playing the game umpteen times, I never fall asleep and then go talk to Solas. I am wide awake, having just talked to countless other people, and go talk to Solas as part of my rounds. Next thing I know, I'm in dream Haven. :-/

How do you know that your Inquisitor hadn't fallen asleep and then talked to Solas? Are you always conscious that you're dreaming when you're dreaming?

It does raise the question of when the dream starts, but I don't see any other way to stage the scene.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 22:31:14 GMT by alanc9

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:12:20 GMT

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 22:12:20 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 22:03:04 GMT melbella said:

This is what Solas tells us so it must be true? All I know is, even after playing the game umpteen times, I never fall asleep and then go talk to Solas. I am wide awake, having just talked to countless other people, and go talk to Solas as part of my rounds. Next thing I know, I'm in dream Haven. :-/

You can't just default to "well, Solas just lies!" when what he says is inconvenient to you. It's established by character and his creator/writer, that Solas lies by omission. There's nothing to omit in this case, especially that Solas is caught by surprise himself.

The editing of this sequence isn't great because, for all I know, he could have konked me on the head so I'd pass out. No, I'm not saying that's what happened, but a little less creepy would be nice.

No, I agree with you that it is confusing (even it it posits interesting question about trouble with distinguishing reality from Fade, with which even Solas seems to have difficulty with, given that he does tell Inky after the dream Haven sequence that 'he's reasonably certain that the're awake now'), which is why many people thought that Solas did indeed hit Inky in the head. But according to all available dialogue, at least the moment we approach Solas happens when we're dreaming. Which is why we wake up in Inky's bed later.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 22:12:45 GMT by midnight tea

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:16:22 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 22:16:22 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 21:58:39 GMT midnight tea said:

Oct 14, 2017 21:47:35 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

As you point out, he doesn't reveal the whole truth about himself. A lie of omission is still a lie, thus he is lying about who he is. He hides the fact that this whole thing is his fault, that he has killed countless people and plans to kill countless more. If he revealed that, my Inquisitor would never become romantically or sexually involved with him. So while yes he isn't as blatant as the Envy Demon is, he is still in that general group.

It's still not the same thing like Envy impersonating Leliana. He's also not seducing Inquisitor, in fact he is highly reluctant and warns Inquisitor about complications and heartbreak and only goes with it if Lavellan is persistent in pursuing him and willing to take the risk, despite him obviously hiding something from us.

Um, that's pretty much exactly what I said in my first reply.

Well, he is. He's just not pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:21:06 GMT

Post by midnight tea on Oct 14, 2017 22:21:06 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 22:16:22 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Oct 14, 2017 21:58:39 GMT midnight tea said:

It's still not the same thing like Envy impersonating Leliana. He's also not seducing Inquisitor, in fact he is highly reluctant and warns Inquisitor about complications and heartbreak and only goes with it if Lavellan is persistent in pursuing him and willing to take the risk, despite him obviously hiding something from us.

Um, that's pretty much exactly what I said in my first reply.

Well, he is. He's just not pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you.

Yes, but pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you/exploit you was virtually the whole point of the Envy impersonating Leli. None of this applies to Solas, so he's not even in same 'general group'.

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:23:34 GMT

Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 14, 2017 22:23:34 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 22:21:06 GMT midnight tea said:

Oct 14, 2017 22:16:22 GMT Hanako Ikezawa said:

Um, that's pretty much exactly what I said in my first reply.

Yes, but pretending to be someone else in order to have sex with you/exploit you was virtually the whole point of the Envy impersonating Leli. None of this applies to Solas, so he's not even in same 'general group'.

Solas totally pretends to be someone else in order to use and exploit the Inquisitor and the Inquisition to get rid of Corypheus and try to get his orb back so he can enact his plan. That's the whole reason the Qun thinks the Inquisition was working with/for him in Trespasser.

Last Edit: Oct 14, 2017 22:25:38 GMT by Hanako Ikezawa

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"No Brothels to be in DA4" as per Mark Darrah Tweet. Oct 14, 2017 22:24:21 GMT midnight tea, Kymira, and 1 more like this

Post by LogicGunn on Oct 14, 2017 22:24:21 GMT

Oct 14, 2017 20:31:22 GMT midnight tea said: