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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 3:01:33 GMT
Ooh... did I make the cut as one of the Threel? Nah, you've only been here since page 30 or so.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
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Post by melbella on Oct 16, 2017 3:03:42 GMT
I have a genuine question for you for those wanting there to be a brothel. Say Bioware had to choose to do one or the other: add a brothel and have terrible sex scenes, or don't add a brothel and have Witcher 3-tier sex scenes. Which would you choose? Can't choose both, it ruins the experiment.
Not a lot of context to the question, is the problem. Are we talking a building that says "Brothel" and nothing more? Or a full-blown hub with NPCs, quests, and a base for the PC to hang out in? If we're talking the latter, then yeah, I'd take that. If it's just a building with a sign? Don't even bother.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 16, 2017 4:05:33 GMT
river82 and melbella Thank you for actually answering the question rather than personally insulting. I appreciate it.
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Post by phoray on Oct 16, 2017 4:12:15 GMT
I have a genuine question for you for those wanting there to be a brothel. Say Bioware had to choose to do one or the other: add a brothel and have terrible sex scenes, or don't add a brothel and have Witcher 3-tier sex scenes. Which would you choose? Can't choose both, it ruins the experiment. Considering I don't want repetitive porn scenes, but instead want a physical building where I can spend in game coin and interact with the ladies and men there, I definteily vote for the Brothel. I can't Roleplay a Cinematic Sex Scene. I can roleplay a protag who visits a brothel, though.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 4:35:49 GMT
river82 and melbella Thank you for actually answering the question rather than personally insulting. I appreciate it. If you feel insulted by someone telling you that you misunderstood something, then you have some deep seated issues you might want to look into.
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Post by Fredward on Oct 16, 2017 5:25:03 GMT
river82 and melbella Thank you for actually answering the question rather than personally insulting. I appreciate it. If you feel insulted by someone telling you that you misunderstood something, then you have some deep seated issues you might want to look into. I think you've misunderstood the question. I'd take the brothels over the sex scenes for much the same reasons as river mentioned. It's not about the sex, it's about the kind of stories that can be told if these things are represented.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 16, 2017 5:50:24 GMT
Or you don't want them in there simply because sex is not your forte? Just because you don't like sex doesn't mean that people have to follow your lead based on your personal tastes. But why do I even bother? That's not an answer to my question. I'm just curious to see what the answers are. Also I've never said there shouldn't be sex in the game, so I don't know where you are getting that idea. Your constant subtle bashing me over the idea says otherwise. But it's no big deal.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 5:52:26 GMT
I'm saying that I'm pretty sure that's what everyone thinks. To have to ask her question shows she misunderstood why most of us would like them included.
In her mind, people asking for brothels are asking for "moar secks!" But the truth is and always has been we want them for good stories and compelling worlds to play in.
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Post by cloud9 on Oct 16, 2017 6:03:21 GMT
I'm saying that I'm pretty sure that's what everyone thinks. To have to ask her question shows she misunderstood why most of us would like them included. In her mind, people asking for brothels are asking for "moar secks!" But the truth is and always has been we want them for good stories and compelling worlds to play in. It's nothing wrong enjoying sex scenes as long as it's well done and not so boring and covered in underwear. Who would pay 60$ for that shit?
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Post by Fredward on Oct 16, 2017 6:15:04 GMT
To have to ask her question shows she misunderstood why most of us would like them included. Yes, I do believe that is generally why questions exist. To gather more info and clear up potential misunderstandings. I suppose I just don't get why that would be met with a condescending "Lol you don't get it" when the person clearly intuits they might be missing something (cuz they asked the question in the first place) instead of just answering the question but w/e.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 7:27:01 GMT
To have to ask her question shows she misunderstood why most of us would like them included. Yes, I do believe that is generally why questions exist. To gather more info and clear up potential misunderstandings. I suppose I just don't get why that would be met with a condescending "Lol you don't get it" when the person clearly intuits they might be missing something (cuz they asked the question in the first place) instead of just answering the question but w/e. The condescending remarks were earned from the previous 40 pages where she's attacked and belittled people for not sharing her view.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 16, 2017 7:37:35 GMT
Yes, I do believe that is generally why questions exist. To gather more info and clear up potential misunderstandings. I suppose I just don't get why that would be met with a condescending "Lol you don't get it" when the person clearly intuits they might be missing something (cuz they asked the question in the first place) instead of just answering the question but w/e. The condescending remarks were earned from the previous 40 pages where she's attacked and belittled people for not sharing her view. Wait, when have I done this?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 16, 2017 7:49:44 GMT
I have a genuine question for you for those wanting there to be a brothel. Say Bioware had to choose to do one or the other: add a brothel and have terrible sex scenes, or don't add a brothel and have Witcher 3-tier sex scenes. Which would you choose? Can't choose both, it ruins the experiment. I'll take the brothel and have them include Andromeda-tier sex scenes. Hah! Loophole! But seriously I'd take the brothel as it's something that helps me to define my character and offers the opportunity for roleplay & maybe sidemissions. While I've always been a vocal proponent of Bioware not shying away from including nudity in appropriate romance related scenes, be they lead in or lead out, I'm actually in favor of them fading to black for the sex itself because that to some extent takes away a bit more control of my character in that it defines how they fuck. While there are hints, implications, and innuendo, I'm generally left to fill in the blanks for what specifically my Warden was doing with Morrigan and Leliana, what specifically my Hawke was doing with Isabela and Merrill, what specifically my Adaar was doing with Cassandra or what my Lavellan was doing with Blackwall. While I did enjoy the scenes, nothing was left to the imagination with my Sara & Peebee or my Scott & Cora. I appreciate that in Cassandra's scene or Sera's scene, or in Bull's third scene they don't wait until after they've gotten dressed to start up conversation, like they just can't stand to talk to each other without their clothes on. And I maintain that Traynor should have been naked in the shower before they cut away in ME3. But that's lead in, lead out stuff. Don't need to see what goes on between one and the other.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 7:54:02 GMT
The condescending remarks were earned from the previous 40 pages where she's attacked and belittled people for not sharing her view. Wait, when have I done this? Unless I'm mistaking you for someone with a similar name and avatar.... somewhere around the page 20ish mark. EDIT: after rereading some of the replies, perhaps your avatar simply stuck in my head while other did the attacking. If that is the case, my apologies.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 16, 2017 8:15:48 GMT
Wait, when have I done this? Unless I'm mistaking you for someone with a similar name and avatar.... somewhere around the page 20ish mark. EDIT: after rereading some of the replies, perhaps your avatar simply stuck in my head while other did the attacking. If that is the case, my apologies. Ah, okay. Yeah I never tried to attack or belittle other people's opinions about this. No worries.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 16, 2017 14:57:54 GMT
The brothels in Origins and 2 served no purpose . They're a waste of resources, and as someone who has known sex workers in real life, I consider their portrayal of sex workers and the industry to be reductive and offensive.
If BioWare is not capable of tackling the subject matter in a respectful and nuanced way, then I'm glad that they aren't coming back.
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Post by wickedcool on Oct 16, 2017 15:09:08 GMT
Here in the states they glorified it as opposed to offensive
This comment on brothels by darrah is a good sign that da4 is further along in development
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 16, 2017 15:18:38 GMT
The brothels in Origins and 2 served no purpose . They're a waste of resources, and as someone who has known sex workers in real life, I consider their portrayal of sex workers and the industry to be reductive and offensive. If BioWare is not capable of tackling the subject matter in a respectful and nuanced way, then I'm glad that they aren't coming back. Here's the thing. They served the purpose of showing what kind of world DA takes place it. Brothels, prostitution, and probably bed slaves are a part of this dark, twisted fantasy we enjoy exploring. If those things weren't there, it takes some of the mystery, the bizzare, and grotesque out of the world. And I believe the world is lesser for it. Dont expect game or movie renditions of sex workers to mirror your own personal experience with them. Just like nothing else in DA directly mirrors the real world. I live in Asia and have seen and met my fair share of prositutes as well. When they're on the job, they are actually pretty close to the DA2 representation.
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Post by sageoflife on Oct 16, 2017 15:25:47 GMT
If you don't want people to talk down to you, it helps not to make arguments like "women are ugly" and "gay people aren't being hidden away". Because things like that are like a neon sign saying that you shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 16, 2017 15:41:40 GMT
The brothels in Origins and 2 served no purpose . They're a waste of resources, and as someone who has known sex workers in real life, I consider their portrayal of sex workers and the industry to be reductive and offensive. If BioWare is not capable of tackling the subject matter in a respectful and nuanced way, then I'm glad that they aren't coming back. Here's the thing. They served the purpose of showing what kind of world DA takes place it. Brothels, prostitution, and probably bed slaves are a part of this dark, twisted fantasy we enjoy exploring. If those things weren't there, it takes some of the mystery, the bizzare, and grotesque out of the world. And I believe the world is lesser for it. Dont expect game or movie renditions of sex workers to mirror your own personal experience with them. Just like nothing else in DA directly mirrors the real world. I live in Asia and have seen and met my fair share of prositutes as well. When they're on the job, they are actually pretty close to the DA2 representation. DA2 and DA:O prostitution wasn't dark, though.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 16, 2017 15:50:28 GMT
The brothels in Origins and 2 served no purpose . They're a waste of resources, and as someone who has known sex workers in real life, I consider their portrayal of sex workers and the industry to be reductive and offensive. If BioWare is not capable of tackling the subject matter in a respectful and nuanced way, then I'm glad that they aren't coming back. Here's the thing. They served the purpose of showing what kind of world DA takes place it. Brothels, prostitution, and probably bed slaves are a part of this dark, twisted fantasy we enjoy exploring. If those things weren't there, it takes some of the mystery, the bizzare, and grotesque out of the world. And I believe the world is lesser for it. Dont expect game or movie renditions of sex workers to mirror your own personal experience with them. Just like nothing else in DA directly mirrors the real world. I live in Asia and have seen and met my fair share of prositutes as well. When they're on the job, they are actually pretty close to the DA2 representation. Thing is, it doesn't do that. At all. The brothels in Origins and DA2 tells us nothing about the world, unless you're inferring that having a sex industry automatically makes a community "dark and twisted". Prostitution happens to be legal in my country, and it's actually a pretty safe, clean place to live. They also don't show us anything bizarre or grotesque. BioWare's portrayal of the sex industry is milquetoast at best, and played for laughs. It's all winks and nods. The brothels don't DO anything, except take your digital money in exchange for a short animation and a fade to black that does nothing to develop the plot, characters or settings. Okay, so they serve as backdrops for a couple side quests, but there's no reason those places HAD to be brothels. Isabela can play cards anywhere, templars can be seduced by anyone. Even if you HAVE to have a brothel in your game, and chances are you don't, there's no good reason to put resources into a game mechanic that allows players to patronise it. It serves no function. It literally only exists because developers think their target audience fantasizes about going to brothels. It's just empty, fleeting titillation. The prostitutes in DA2 aren't "like" anything. They barely have character (I'd argue they don't have any). They are dolls that you can have sex with. Why shouldn't I expect BioWare to take the issue of sex work seriously? They have their woefully inadequate homophobia storyline, and their very thinly veiled racism themes. They reflect the real world when it suits them to do so, when they think they'll be lauded for it. As it happens, I don't expect BioWare to delve into the ethics of the sex industry or the plight of the workers, and if they tried I bet it would be awful. What I do expect is for everything in a game, or any piece of media, for that matter, to have a good reason for being there.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: Former_Fiend
Posts: 547 Likes: 956
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Post by formerfiend on Oct 16, 2017 16:20:54 GMT
Does it allow me to play my character as a sleezy whore monger or loveable sex maniac? Then it serves a purpose.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 16, 2017 16:21:32 GMT
Thing is, it doesn't do that. At all. The brothels in Origins and DA2 tells us nothing about the world, unless you're inferring that having a sex industry automatically makes a community "dark and twisted". Prostitution happens to be legal in my country, and it's actually a pretty safe, clean place to live. They also don't show us anything bizarre or grotesque. BioWare's portrayal of the sex industry is milquetoast at best, and played for laughs. It's all winks and nods. Right. In HBO terms, it's Cathouse, not The Deuce.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by krighaur on Oct 16, 2017 17:57:47 GMT
If people don't want brothel for the sex stuff, then what makes a brothel different from a tavern in game term.
In a tavern you can have : shady people and works, informations, side games (cards, dice, brawl, etc), rest, quests, maids in sexy outfits. You can also have maids or clients willing to whore themselves.
So why a game without a brothel, but with a tavern would be less attractive than a game with a brothel ?
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Post by Zatche on Oct 16, 2017 19:25:15 GMT
Does it allow me to play my character as a sleezy whore monger or loveable sex maniac? Then it serves a purpose. I guess I have a hard time understanding why that is so important (relative to any other choice you could theoretically make). Your example, a couple pages ago, poses theoretical repurcussions for a sex maniac Inquisitor who doesn't listen to the counsel of his advisors and visits a brothel. That specific instance could be intriguing. But, for DAO and DA2, the brothels and your choice to use them are isolated from the rest of the game. It doesn't provoke any consequence from the narrative. Any reaction from your companions for sexual promiscuity are, at the most, an eye roll or a joke. And I believe that's only designated to non-prostitute activities. Theoretically, you could give your PC any number of traits that the narrative doesn't react to. And the devs can only give us so many scenarios in which we can showcase those traits. Why is "sex maniac" so much more important than "card player" or "avid reader" that you can't just head-canon it?
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