pinkjellybeans
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 4, 2017 14:33:35 GMT
W3 is not a revelation in that respect. Most old BW games were like that (and a great many other ones, I am certain), hub maps where the main story took you, and if you wished, you did a lot of sidequests as well. Hopping back and force through instant travel to do unrelated missions here and there is newer than the hubs. Yes, but DAI was the first open world game by Bioware, right? I very much doubt they will go back to more closed areas like past DA games. I'm not against it, I do like open worlds when they are done right, but I feel like they completely failed on that department. I don't want an open world to explore just for the sake of it and unfortunately most of the maps in DAI only have that purpose. After all, you can finish the game without going to half of those maps.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 14:38:22 GMT
W3 is not a revelation in that respect. Most old BW games were like that (and a great many other ones, I am certain), hub maps where the main story took you, and if you wished, you did a lot of sidequests as well. Hopping back and force through instant travel to do unrelated missions here and there is newer than the hubs. Yes, but DAI was the first open world game by Bioware, right? I very much doubt they will go back to more closed areas like past DA games. I'm not against it, I do like open worlds when they are done right, but I feel like they completely failed on that department. I don't want an open world to explore just for the sake of it and unfortunately most of the maps in DAI only have that purpose. After all, you can finish the game without going to half of those maps. No, SWTOR was. It did have central missions on each planet, class stories, heroics and hop missions for your class story. It was less weird than DAI, with more story content per planet than Andromeda, but similar organization. You did not play Swtor, did you?
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pinkjellybeans
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Post by pinkjellybeans on Oct 4, 2017 14:40:00 GMT
Yes, but DAI was the first open world game by Bioware, right? I very much doubt they will go back to more closed areas like past DA games. I'm not against it, I do like open worlds when they are done right, but I feel like they completely failed on that department. I don't want an open world to explore just for the sake of it and unfortunately most of the maps in DAI only have that purpose. After all, you can finish the game without going to half of those maps. No, SWTOR was. It did have central missions on each planet, class stories, heroics and hop missions for your class story. It was less weird than DAI, with more story content per planet than Andromeda, but similar organization. Hmm. Never played it but always heard good things about it. Maybe I should try it someday. Still, my point stands that DAI's open world sucked and they need to improve that for DA4, lol. I used TW3 as an example because it's the most recent game that has done the open world aspect almost perfectly in my opinion.
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Post by Sah291 on Oct 4, 2017 14:56:37 GMT
The thing that made the brothels and bars fun in past games, was because they were casual, slice of life, atmospheres, where you could go have a drink, hear gossip, funny banter, do a quest, etc... I liked in DA2, how there were quest lines that brought you there, and you would meet the workers and it wasn't just about "sampling the wares". Just because there is a brothel doesn't meant it has to be portrayed negatively.
Besides, I have a feeling slavery in Tevinter is going to be depicted as a lot more subtle than we think...thats assuming the game even takes place there. But I would doubt the lower classes in Tevinter tend to be slave owners. For all we know, sex work might be considered respectable work in a society like that, if it is legal, and it one of the few professions open for people to earn a living and have some means of independence, regardless of where tbey came from, if they were run by free persons or ex slaves. It doesn't have to be a stereotype. Isabela in DA2 could have been just a stereotype, but was actually pretty good.
On the other hand, they can be examples of some of the worst sides of a society, especially one where slavery is legal.. that's something that shouldn't be whitewashed, even if it isn't actually shown or depicted.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 15:09:35 GMT
No, SWTOR was. It did have central missions on each planet, class stories, heroics and hop missions for your class story. It was less weird than DAI, with more story content per planet than Andromeda, but similar organization. Hmm. Never played it but always heard good things about it. Maybe I should try it someday. Still, my point stands that DAI's open world sucked and they need to improve that for DA4, lol. I used TW3 as an example because it's the most recent game that has done the open world aspect almost perfectly in my opinion. On that I do not disagree, and I would prefer the return of the old hub world system.
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Post by majesticjazz on Oct 4, 2017 15:20:36 GMT
Yes and the same CDPR that treated the player like an adult and wasnt afraid to "go there" with themes that Bioware now seems to timid about. Taking out Brothels is just a minor issue. The bigger issue is Bioware possibly sanitizing Tevinter because they do not want to offend a certain demographics. Despite having the last 3 games give us references to just how offensive of a place Tevinter really is. So this is less about wanting to see videogame breast and more about if Bioware can tell an adult Dark Fantasy story that shows a lot of dark themes the same way TW3 did. Oh please, Dragon Age Inquisition had adult themes that weren't always black and white in their portrayals but was done beautifully. We don't even know how dark DA4 is going to be if anything it might morally grey considering Tevinter and the Qunari are going to war. Oh please, you cannot with a straight face say that DAI is on the same tone as DAO/DA2 where you could kill Connor, sell off an elf to be raped be a blood mage, sell a party member into slavery, see your mother become a half dead bride, wipe out an entire village of innocent elves and much more. Why was the desire demon look not carried over to DAI?
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 4, 2017 15:28:35 GMT
Bah... BioWare has definitely lost its balls. I've actually been playing across all 3 games lately. You can literally see how they moved more and more PC over the course of the series. Bring back the GOOD gaming company that made some of the best, twisted fastasy games I ever experienced. Yes, because the game where thee advisers can marvel at the size of a Qunari d*ck is definitely PC... The game is more PC in every aspect. If you think taking 1 scene changes that, you're beyond delusional.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 4, 2017 15:29:52 GMT
Yes, because the game where thee advisers can marvel at the size of a Qunari d*ck is definitely PC... The game is more PC in every aspect. If you think taking 1 scene changes that, you're beyond delusional. Name one example that DAI is PC.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 4, 2017 15:30:52 GMT
Yes, because the game where thee advisers can marvel at the size of a Qunari d*ck is definitely PC... The game is more PC in every aspect. If you think taking 1 scene changes that, you're beyond delusional. The only delusion here is claiming that the game is more PC in every aspect. And no - I hardly mean 1 scene.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 4, 2017 15:32:57 GMT
Oh please, Dragon Age Inquisition had adult themes that weren't always black and white in their portrayals but was done beautifully. We don't even know how dark DA4 is going to be if anything it might morally grey considering Tevinter and the Qunari are going to war. Oh please, you cannot with a straight face say that DAI is on the same tone as DAO/DA2 where you could kill Connor, sell off an elf to be raped be a blood mage, sell a party member into slavery, see your mother become a half dead bride, wipe out an entire village of innocent elves and much more. Why was the desire demon look not carried over to DAI? What? I just said that Inquisition felt with mature themes that ranged from dark to wonderful. As for the desire demon? Who knows? It’s probably because it doesn’t the story.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 4, 2017 15:33:37 GMT
The game is more PC in every aspect. If you think taking 1 scene changes that, you're beyond delusional. The only delusion here is claiming that the game is more PC in every aspect. And no - I hardly mean 1 scene. One of the companions murdered children.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 4, 2017 15:37:26 GMT
The only delusion here is claiming that the game is more PC in every aspect. And no - I hardly mean 1 scene. One of the companions murdered children. Another one has plans that may destroy the world. Yet another one can betray us after we made him watch his friends die. Another is a spirit who got broken because he couldn't find a way to help a mage who starved to death in a cell and is suggested to have been abused by Templars.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 4, 2017 15:39:06 GMT
The game is more PC in every aspect. If you think taking 1 scene changes that, you're beyond delusional. Name one example that DAI is PC. Lol where to start? Too scared to mention rape or sexual assault. First ever fully gay and lesbian companions. First ever trans character. Ugly women make characters more interesting apparently. No evil option, must play the hero. Desire demons being cut. No sexualizing of women in anyway, only male characters like Bull. Nearly all villians are male. Only female villian was Floriane. Calpernia and Clarel redeemed themselves and were clealy noble. Men were portrayed as idiots (Roderick) evil (Corypheus) brutal (Gaspard) addicts (Samson) power mad (Mage from into Abyss) or demons (Imshael). That's just to name a few. Like I said, if you dont see the PC themes, youre delusional.
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 4, 2017 15:40:28 GMT
Haha, must be nice to close your eyes and ears to the issue just because you find it suits your own tastes.
I have no time for willful ignorance.
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Post by apollexander on Oct 4, 2017 15:46:46 GMT
To be honest there are 'dark' stories in DAI, such as the Crestwood mayor abandoning weak villagers and the Emprise du Lion lady sending villagers to feed red lyrium. I would like to take the lord seeker quest as well. You can also judge on of your companions
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Post by naughtynomad on Oct 4, 2017 15:55:32 GMT
To be honest there are 'dark' stories in DAI, such as the Crestwood mayor abandoning weak villagers and the Emprise du Lion lady sending villagers to feed red lyrium. I would like to take the lord seeker quest as well. You can also judge on of your companions Sure... now compare that to Templars making mages Tranquil and raping them. Hunting down A serial killer who rapes and murders young elven woman. A necromancer who murders older women, cuts them up, and recreates the body of his dead wife, and puts a spirit inside her while she's wearing your mother's face...
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 4, 2017 15:56:56 GMT
Name one example that DAI is PC. Lol where to start? Too scared to mention rape or sexual assault. I just mentioned that it's suggested the original Cole was abused by Templars. That is "PC" for you? Holy moly... You're either this desperate to come with examples or you just told a lot about yourself with this. Again - telling a lot about yourself with this. Also, it's not the first trans character in the franchise. Matter of opinion. I myself consider graphics and character models of previous games inferior to anything in DAI. And again - how is that supposed to suggest that 'the game is more PC'!? No, you don't. You can play an a-hole all you like that can even tell everybody that you will lead Inquisition for personal gain. They're just not present, reasons for it can be multiple, including the focus of the story on Pride demons. Yes, because Vivienne and Morrigan don't parade around with boob windows... I like how you mentioned that Cal and Clarel redeemed themselves, but fail to mention that Roderick did too. Also - who the hell is Mage from the Abyss? Like, you really have to reach to absurd places with this... Sorry, but the only person delusional here is a person who gives "ugly women" as an example of PC themes. This is not just delusional, this is plain stupid.
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Post by apollexander on Oct 4, 2017 16:01:00 GMT
Name one example that DAI is PC. Lol where to start? Too scared to mention rape or sexual assault. First ever fully gay and lesbian companions. First ever trans character. Ugly women make characters more interesting apparently. No evil option, must play the hero. Desire demons being cut. No sexualizing of women in anyway, only male characters like Bull. Nearly all villians are male. Only female villian was Floriane. Calpernia and Clarel redeemed themselves and were clealy noble. Men were portrayed as idiots (Roderick) evil (Corypheus) brutal (Gaspard) addicts (Samson) power mad (Mage from into Abyss) or demons (Imshael). That's just to name a few. Like I said, if you dont see the PC themes, youre delusional. Too scared to mention rape or sexual assault. - I think there is a codex in Hinterlands mentioning Templars raping? And there are many sex contents mentioned in banters. First ever fully gay and lesbian companions. - There are gay and lesbian companions in previous Bioware games. First ever trans character. - Maybe. But in DA2 there is a elven man acting like a woman. And in the comic there is Maevaris. Ugly women make characters more interesting apparently. - I think Josephine, Morrigan, Leliana, Fiona, Briala are beautiful women. No evil option, must play the hero. - You can play evil in Judgements. You can abandon the chargers. You can negotiate with Imshael. Desire demons being cut. - So how are Terror, Fear, and Despair more PC than Desire? No sexualizing of women in anyway, only male characters like Bull. - When you romance Cassandra, her nipples are shown. I can't remember whether I saw nipples in previous games. Nearly all villians are male. Only female villian was Floriane. Calpernia and Clarel redeemed themselves and were clealy noble. Men were portrayed as idiots (Roderick) evil (Corypheus) brutal (Gaspard) addicts (Samson) power mad (Mage from into Abyss) or demons (Imshael). - Why aren't Celene and Briala villians when you take Gaspard as an example? Fiona can be a boss in a main quest. And Roderick also redeemed himself.
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Post by apollexander on Oct 4, 2017 16:11:41 GMT
To be honest there are 'dark' stories in DAI, such as the Crestwood mayor abandoning weak villagers and the Emprise du Lion lady sending villagers to feed red lyrium. I would like to take the lord seeker quest as well. You can also judge on of your companions Sure... now compare that to Templars making mages Tranquil and raping them. Hunting down A serial killer who rapes and murders young elven woman. A necromancer who murders older women, cuts them up, and recreates the body of his dead wife, and puts a spirit inside her while she's wearing your mother's face... How about giving an order to make a tranquil yourself? Encourage your commander to be addictive on lyrium, grow red lyrium inside the bodies of your companions, and also get leliana's face blighted.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 4, 2017 16:24:10 GMT
There's no point arguing - if someone tries to make "ugly women" an example of the franchise "getting more PC" it's an automatic sign that we're not dealing with a reasonable individual.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 16:27:18 GMT
Sure... now compare that to Templars making mages Tranquil and raping them. Hunting down A serial killer who rapes and murders young elven woman. A necromancer who murders older women, cuts them up, and recreates the body of his dead wife, and puts a spirit inside her while she's wearing your mother's face... How about giving an order to make a tranquil yourself? Encourage your commander to be addictive on lyrium, grow red lyrium inside the bodies of your companions, and also get leliana's face blighted. The plots themselves in DA3 are no lighter than in the previous games. It's the atmosphere and delivery that they did not quite got right to make it come through. In a couple of scenes they manage, through Cole mostly. I did like it that I can make Lucious tranquil, but unfortunately this is a locked option for either Mage or one of the Knowledges. DA3 failings do not lie in its plots, per se, but in its shallow presentation and misallocation of resources that is too heavy on the companions/advisors cast, and nowhere nearly enough on all other characters of the world. Everything was stretched too thin, the Inquisitor was too limited in his or her actions every time s/he acted, so it resulted in presenting us with sort of less than a complete picture we normally get in a BioWare game. And for me, DA3 remains a game where all characters are inexplicably ugly, male and female vs what character creator provides, and i have no idea why.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2017 16:30:14 GMT
... grow red lyrium inside the bodies of your companions, and also get leliana's face blighted. Uh... how do you do these things?
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Post by apollexander on Oct 4, 2017 16:35:39 GMT
... grow red lyrium inside the bodies of your companions, and also get leliana's face blighted. Uh... how do you do these things? Maybe I didn't make it clear. You don't do that, but you see that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 16:43:55 GMT
Uh... how do you do these things? Maybe I didn't make it clear. You don't do that, but you see that. Well, I guess you can abandon the game at this stage and let it come to pass. Overall, the quest actually demonstrates the problem with DA3 presentation, it immideatly tells you that it is not real and you are neither in doubt that it can be averted, nor you have a choice to let it come to pass, or do something that has terrible consequences in what is real. Something that would leave Leliana scarred for example, or condemning your companions to eventual slow death because there is lyrium left in them somehow or ordering Dagna to use it against your foes, etc. You have no choice but to deliver the world with Dorian cheerfully assisting, and your companions right as rain "for reals". Alexis and his son's tragedy is not even used to their full potential, as Felix dies off screen "for reals" not, say, in PC's and Dorian's presence, and wth PC not being able to say condemn Felix to die by insisting on just punishment for his father. That's the essential problem of DA3. Good story in essence, but devalued by "it's all gonna be fine".
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 4, 2017 16:55:38 GMT
Oh please, Dragon Age Inquisition had adult themes that weren't always black and white in their portrayals but was done beautifully. We don't even know how dark DA4 is going to be if anything it might morally grey considering Tevinter and the Qunari are going to war. Oh please, you cannot with a straight face say that DAI is on the same tone as DAO/DA2 where you could kill Connor, sell off an elf to be raped be a blood mage, sell a party member into slavery, see your mother become a half dead bride, wipe out an entire village of innocent elves and much more. Why was the desire demon look not carried over to DAI? The desire demon look was just cheap cheesecake. Anyway, it doesn't make much sense to have them all look the same. The look didn't do anything for most of my female PCs. As for the rest, I'm not sure letting the PC slip into mustache-twirling evil is really all that relevant for tone. The dark tones from DA:O and DA2 make stuff dark when things happen despite the PC. I'm not so much disagreeing with you as saying that you're pointing to the wrong things.
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