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Post by Sweet FA on Nov 22, 2017 5:44:55 GMT
Disney will be most displeased with this...
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Post by smilesja on Nov 22, 2017 5:45:40 GMT
The article is a bit mis-leading. Thankfully we have someone on our staff who can translate Flemish for us, he basically noted that the commission thinks they are gambling because it's being predatory specifically on children, to paraphrase it. Belgium apparently views games as kid toys, according to our staffer. That said, it has to go through to the EU for it to really administer a change. PEGI has also noted that they don't see Loot Boxes as Gambling, but they will change their parameters if other country gaming commissions do. So what is likely here depends not necessarily on implementation, but just compliance with the law. This may go down the China route... What do you mean by the China route? |
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 22, 2017 6:05:28 GMT
The article is a bit mis-leading. Thankfully we have someone on our staff who can translate Flemish for us, he basically noted that the commission thinks they are gambling because it's being predatory specifically on children, to paraphrase it. Belgium apparently views games as kid toys, according to our staffer. That said, it has to go through to the EU for it to really administer a change. PEGI has also noted that they don't see Loot Boxes as Gambling, but they will change their parameters if other country gaming commissions do. So what is likely here depends not necessarily on implementation, but just compliance with the law. This may go down the China route... What do you mean by the China route? Well, in China they made it a law to feature odds and percentages for loot boxes in overwatch. It may be possible that will become standardize for Belgium or the us to mitigate it as "gambling" |
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 22, 2017 10:47:43 GMT
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Post by jaison1986 on Nov 22, 2017 11:02:53 GMT
They never learn do they? But if they add microtransactions for XP boosts, then the game pretty much will still feature "pay to win" functions. |
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Post by Pounce de León on Nov 22, 2017 11:10:39 GMT
They never learn do they? But if they add microtransactions for XP boosts, then the game pretty much will still feature "pay to win" functions. It won't be as obvious though. |
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 22, 2017 11:28:42 GMT
They never learn do they? But if they add microtransactions for XP boosts, then the game pretty much will still feature "pay to win" functions. It won't be as obvious though. I'm skeptical since it's from a random guy on Reddit. That being said, it sounds like an EA thing to do. |
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 22, 2017 11:37:14 GMT
Couldn’t get the image to work, nvm
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Nov 22, 2017 11:41:51 GMT
^ uh...blank?  |
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 22, 2017 12:10:02 GMT
They never learn do they? But if they add microtransactions for XP boosts, then the game pretty much will still feature "pay to win" functions. It won't be as obvious though. And it won't be gambling, technically. Heimdall your post is showing as blank for me as well. |
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 22, 2017 12:50:19 GMT
Belgium and Hawaii (isn't Hawaii part of the US?) declared loot boxes as gambling apparently. Belgium will seek to ban them in Europe supposedly, but they predict it'll take quite some time. In EA's defense I don't see how Belgium can decide for the entirety of Europe, but anyways. The PC Gamer article does not mention Hawaii, it's mentioned in this video.
Even if people disagree, this is another battle won for us gamers. Maybe one day megacorporations will stop seeing us as walking wallets that must be milked. |
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 22, 2017 13:02:55 GMT
Belgium and Hawaii (isn't Hawaii part of the US?) Yes, but this'll likely be a state-to-state issue; like the lottery. Though, I'm guessing I wouldn't call myself an expert on this. |
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Post by CHRrOME on Nov 22, 2017 13:50:01 GMT
Me hating lootboxes and MT's aside (and thinking that they are indeed similar in appeal to gambling), I'm not going to start cheering for government regulation in video games. It may be only about gambling today, but I doubt it'd stay that way for long. That's were all this bullshit has led us. To the industry being regulated, and I agree is gonna be the end of it... I'm picturing people with no idea of what a videogame is sitting in a room deciding what is good and what is wrong. It's the industry's own fault, for doing whatever the fuck the wanted and going always one step further every time for so long. Obviously not every company is to blame, just the usual suspects, but it's gonna affect everyone for the worst unfortunately. |
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 22, 2017 14:28:34 GMT
Me hating lootboxes and MT's aside (and thinking that they are indeed similar in appeal to gambling), I'm not going to start cheering for government regulation in video games. It may be only about gambling today, but I doubt it'd stay that way for long. M fine with regulation, Problem is the issue here is stretching the definition of gambling to begin with. Say this bill does get passed in belgium, it will see all loot box systems banned, so a triple a games need to be taken off the market, but it will then destroy other, smaller games with f2p model attached to it, from ibdie phone gamesls to several MMOs. Mid tier games like CSGO will go too. It can also be applied to outside materials as well, CCGs and the like use the same idea to fuel their ecosystems. My fear is that it's too broad of a sweep, vs no regulation at all. Frankly I don't see Loot Boxes as gambling to begin with, so this is already a delicate issue as it's beyond my own definition of the term. |
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 22, 2017 14:30:56 GMT
Belgium and Hawaii (isn't Hawaii part of the US?) Yes, but this'll likely be a state-to-state issue; like the lottery. Though, I'm guessing I wouldn't call myself an expert on this. No thats right. Where it may trip things up is games getting different ratings or simply not releasing in an individual state, or an instituted change to in game systems that will be required by hawaii, so easier to do for the game as a whole. |
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Post by slimgrin727 on Nov 22, 2017 14:52:44 GMT
Belgium and Hawaii (isn't Hawaii part of the US?) declared loot boxes as gambling apparently. Belgium will seek to ban them in Europe supposedly, but they predict it'll take quite some time. In EA's defense I don't see how Belgium can decide for the entirety of Europe, but anyways. The PC Gamer article does not mention Hawaii, it's mentioned in this video.
Even if people disagree, this is another battle won for us gamers. Maybe one day megacorporations will stop seeing us as walking wallets that must be milked. It's also a precarious slope for lawmakers. We don't want to hinder developers or place unnecessary restrictions on how they reward gamers. Don't get me wrong, it's best the lootbox/gambling issue is nipped in the bud, but I'm always a bit cynical about our legislators really understanding the medium. |
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Post by Sweet FA on Nov 22, 2017 15:08:22 GMT
Belgium and Hawaii (isn't Hawaii part of the US?) declared loot boxes as gambling apparently. Belgium will seek to ban them in Europe supposedly, but they predict it'll take quite some time. In EA's defense I don't see how Belgium can decide for the entirety of Europe, but anyways. The PC Gamer article does not mention Hawaii, it's mentioned in this video.
Even if people disagree, this is another battle won for us gamers. Maybe one day megacorporations will stop seeing us as walking wallets that must be milked. I believe they said they'll refer it to the European parliament or commission (probably the EU Commission)who will then consider it on a Europe wide basis. If it get's to the European level politicians/officials, knowing their track record it will almost certainly be banned (they enjoy giving large American corporations a bloody nose, they've done it to Microsoft in the past). It's just the kind of thing they like to go after. This will probably take some time given the bureaucracy involved. Unlike the US, regulation and legislation are not considered dirty words in Europe. It's far more acceptable to regulate in Europe. Also the EU political institutions/organisations love regulation and are infamous for their exhaustive and complex legislation/regulation. It will happen but it may take some time. It would be a mistake to underestimate the EU's appetite or capacity for regulation especially for an area that's completely unregulated. |
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Post by crashsuit on Nov 22, 2017 20:48:34 GMT
to start off with microtransactions were fine in me3mp, you didn't gain anything from spending cash that you couldn't obtain through playing the game, then things got "tweaked" to mean if you didn't spend cash you wernt going to be moving up to the next level I'm not 100% sure what you're saying about things getting tweaked but spending cash was never necessary to advance in ME3MP. Many many people maxed their manifests just through playing the game. A max manifest isn't even necessary to do well or have fun, the things that usually help most are getting some decent gear and weapon mods, leveling up classes, and learning a bit about some basic game mechanics. |
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 22, 2017 22:17:41 GMT
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Post by mattig89ch on Nov 22, 2017 22:20:52 GMT
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Post by Kroitz on Nov 22, 2017 23:16:10 GMT
"EA tells investors turning off BF2's microtransactions will not affect earnings."  |
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a tidy workspace is the sign of a deranged mind
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Post by nanotm on Nov 22, 2017 23:29:18 GMT
to start off with microtransactions were fine in me3mp, you didn't gain anything from spending cash that you couldn't obtain through playing the game, then things got "tweaked" to mean if you didn't spend cash you wernt going to be moving up to the next level I'm not 100% sure what you're saying about things getting tweaked but spending cash was never necessary to advance in ME3MP. Many many people maxed their manifests just through playing the game. A max manifest isn't even necessary to do well or have fun, the things that usually help most are getting some decent gear and weapon mods, leveling up classes, and learning a bit about some basic game mechanics. i meant the fact that you could literally role a brand spanking new account with only the lvl 1 starting weapons wiht zero gear or consumables and still complete a gold match, then they started tweaking variables making the guns less useful and lowered drops rates and messed with enemy behaviours and added in new types played wiht maps and all sorts of other stuff and made it so a new player is either stuck in bronze till they farm up enough games to get lucky in the store and obtain the gear that lets them play higher levels or they have to use cash and get that gear before they get bored playing bronze match's.... and sure i know it was possible to max out your manifest even to the point of getting 999 on every consumable simply through playing the game (lets face it before plat came out as soon as you had max levelled any of your bronze tier you could speed run gold match's without needing consumables, but most people struggled to do that on silver games after they finished messing wiht the servers at the "end of support period" ) and for majority of casual gamers they don't have unlimited time so the option of spending a few bucks to get better gear became very appealing (i certainly remember when they added all the n7 weaps to the loot table for the store boxes everyone capped out those elusive little suckers in a week or less having been restricted to junk drops most of the year) and a day later more than half the player base disappeared because no more weekend events..... |
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Post by crashsuit on Nov 22, 2017 23:50:20 GMT
I'm not 100% sure what you're saying about things getting tweaked but spending cash was never necessary to advance in ME3MP. Many many people maxed their manifests just through playing the game. A max manifest isn't even necessary to do well or have fun, the things that usually help most are getting some decent gear and weapon mods, leveling up classes, and learning a bit about some basic game mechanics. i meant the fact that you could literally role a brand spanking new account with only the lvl 1 starting weapons wiht zero gear or consumables and still complete a gold match, then they started tweaking variables making the guns less useful and lowered drops rates and messed with enemy behaviours and added in new types played wiht maps and all sorts of other stuff and made it so a new player is either stuck in bronze till they farm up enough games to get lucky in the store and obtain the gear that lets them play higher levels or they have to use cash and get that gear before they get bored playing bronze match's.... and sure i know it was possible to max out your manifest even to the point of getting 999 on every consumable simply through playing the game (lets face it before plat came out as soon as you had max levelled any of your bronze tier you could speed run gold match's without needing consumables, but most people struggled to do that on silver games after they finished messing wiht the servers at the "end of support period" ) and for majority of casual gamers they don't have unlimited time so the option of spending a few bucks to get better gear became very appealing (i certainly remember when they added all the n7 weaps to the loot table for the store boxes everyone capped out those elusive little suckers in a week or less having been restricted to junk drops most of the year) and a day later more than half the player base disappeared because no more weekend events..... Ah, o k, the weekly balance changes and whatnot. I started ME3MP after end of life, so that's all before my time, but I've heard about the mountains of salt generated by some of that stuff. You know how Mass Effect fans can be though. Maybe it's because I wasn't around at the time, but except for a couple extreme cases, like with the Krysae, the balance changes seemed overall moderate and positive to me. I'm looking at the damage numbers listed here: sites.google.com/site/me3mpd/home/balance-changes |
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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 23, 2017 0:19:46 GMT
"EA tells investors turning off BF2's microtransactions will not affect earnings." Either games as a service has value or it, er, doesn't. Hard to compute...  |
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a tidy workspace is the sign of a deranged mind
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Post by nanotm on Nov 23, 2017 1:22:33 GMT
yeah it was more a case of how the difficulty ramped up purely to ruin "gold farming", (although how anyone could be considered farming on maps where games were taking on average an extra 15 minutes to finish them vs actually playing the game) because a couple of people cried on the forum that they couldn't find any "normal games" the same folks who raged loudly after the changes came and stopped playing because they could no longer box of shame or hide behind a counter and not get killed.... especially when the dev team answer was "you can always cash shop to get better gear".... the motivations behind the changes shone through loud n clear (which likely explains why the community manager deleted the post)
point is they made changes to promote the cash shop because EA didn't see enough revenue from it because folks were getting by just fine without it/
and so we end up with crap like the overpriced "micro transaction" in SWBF2" where the highest tier loot boxes are priced higher than the base game ..... its an incidious creep to get folks away from their cash, and whilst in me3 it wasn't a bad thing because you could choose endless hours of game play or cash to get there, now your being pushed ever harder to no cash = no more playtime..... and this is just the evolution of introducing the online pass then removing it and still charging premiums for the game and dlc's .... now the loot crates are being deemed gambling and EA doesn't have a casino licence (a similar thing happened to various games in the pre 2010 era forcing them to actually list every single "loot crate" item as a one off purchasable item for a few cents up to a few dollars, with a few random boxes for epic tier gear giving a guaranteed drop of at least low rated items and a chance of a really good item for a slightly higher price (before they too got shit canned for breaking gambling rules again)
wont be long now before legislators are forced by the gambling monopolies to outright ban such things from being sold (because they are loosing customers to this stuff)
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