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Post by colfoley on Jan 22, 2021 4:13:21 GMT
This kind of thing does give me a fair bit of fascination because I do agree with you on Hawke. All the set up was there for them to be Inquisitor but I don't have the same viewpoint about the Inquisitor. DA 2, to me felt vague enough where it was setting up a further role for Hawke in the sequel...but Tresspasser really wrapped up my Inquisitor's story rather nicely where I have zero interest in seeing them return and do wonder about how *neccessary* (or even wise) to see them return in DA 4. Maybe this is because of my experience with 2, but it is my opinion. I don't know...Trespasser did alot of things, including wrapping up the fate of the Inquisition itself and the stories of the grand majority of our companions. But the Inquisitor themselves? At least with the base game we were left staring out into the sunset hoping for a better tomorrow or something like that. We had a celebration party and everything. But Trespasser basically revealed a new threat we should be dealing with...and in fact the Inquisitor is already technically trying to deal with Solas's threat through the shadow cabinet of close (ex)Inquisition advisors and affiliates. With a setup like that, I kind of expect them to come back in some form or fashion to deal with Solas. If they didn't want that they should have done something similar to what they did with Hawke and Coryphaeus in DA2 (i.e. make the future antagonist seemingly die) or give them a severe physical impairment. And not just a 'lost arm' type of impairment, but more like 'the mark made the Inquisitor severely ill or infirm for the rest of their life'. Something that gives us an iron-clad definitive reason why the Inquisitor can't physically come back. The 'lost arm' thing seems like something that can be worked around. I like the Trespasser DLC, I really do and I appreciate that it was released. But as far as concluding stories go, it only did that to the Inquisition itself and several companions and not the Inquisitor themselves. And the Inquisitor is, y'know, the main character. I kind of expected some sort of ambiguous departure from the world stage or some sort of slide detailing how they lived the rest of their lives. Not a them still wearing formal Inquisition garb as they strategize how to deal with Solas. The more I think about it, the more I think they should have ended the DLC right before we entered the final eluvian to meet with Solas. That way we can still technically end with us resolving the Qunari threat and choosing what to do with the Inquisition for the default canon ending. With an advisor questioning Solas's true motive if they still wanted to entice us. Or they could have hidden the Solas interaction behind certain criteria for an optional secret ending. I just think they could have ended the DLC better. I actually agree with your final post that would have been better. Heck could've even had a situation where agents of Fen'harel were running around but the Inquisitor would've been made none the wiser, we the audience would know...which would've left the Inquisition maybe investigating the new threat or something but very behind the scenes. As a point of order though I did consider a 'lost arm' as a major physical impairment. Especially in regards to the setting of Dragon Age given a second hand is pretty much vital for all of the combat styles which has been shown in the games to that point. Yes, there is work arounds, yes I have heard some kind of steam punk prostetic as an option, but that has always been one of the clearest examples of their intention to remove the Inquisitor from the front lines. As for the rest...do *we* as the Inquisitor have to deal with the Solas threat in person? THey already faught one god on the front lines, two might be a bit much. |
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thebobzilla84
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Jan 22, 2021 4:27:22 GMT
Clearly the only solution is to patch in a new ending to Trespasser where Solas kills the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor/Solas should be resolved in DA 4 one way or another even if it results in Solas killing the Inquisitor at the beginning of DA4.
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Jan 22, 2021 4:31:24 GMT
Maybe the new MC will witness Solas killing the Inquisitor and swear vengence for a complete random stranger.Yeah that sounds about like Bioware yeah.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 22, 2021 4:45:55 GMT
Clearly the only solution is to patch in a new ending to Trespasser where Solas kills the Inquisitor. The Inquisitor/Solas should be resolved in DA 4 one way or another even if it results in Solas killing the Inquisitor at the beginning of DA4. Sounds awful. Which means BioWare will probably do it considering everything else about that game. |
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thebobzilla84
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by thebobzilla84 on Jan 22, 2021 5:13:23 GMT
The Inquisitor/Solas should be resolved in DA 4 one way or another even if it results in Solas killing the Inquisitor at the beginning of DA4. Sounds awful. Which means BioWare will probably do it considering everything else about that game. Well considering Biowares track record for killing off characters I wouldnt put it past them at all Hanako.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on Jan 22, 2021 5:21:17 GMT
The situation, in this regards, is actually close to Inquisition, even if I’d argue Solas’ connection to the Inquisitor is stronger then the one between Corypheus and Hawke. But BioWare could’ve easily went with Hawke dying in the Conclave in that case too.
I honestly don’t know which direction they’d go with the Inquisitor. I do think howewer that they stuck themselves in a difficult spot with the protagonist issue. A positive thing (for BioWare), in regards of the years between the third and Gorky game, is that I think the negative reaction for whatever fate the Inquisitor might hold, in combination with a new protagonist, would’ve been bigger if the game would’ve come out earlier.
It’s also ironic that both their sequel games, whenever they’ll come out, have problems in regards of the protagonist. Although I think with the way they developed the teaser trailer, NME’s negative reaction to a new protagonist will be much bigger then DA4’s at this point.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 22, 2021 7:40:31 GMT
Inquisitor's death or sacrifice, most likely a choice the new PC makes, is going to be inevitable in DA4. You have the chance to rid of Warden and Hawke so it would be silly if Inquisitor remains in pieces no matter what. I think I'll have to start my first DA4 run with a made up, non-canon Inquisitor honestly  |
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 22, 2021 7:45:44 GMT
Clearly the only solution is to patch in a new ending to Trespasser where Solas kills the Inquisitor. Why not have Solas simply incapacitate the Inquisitor by trapping their mind in the Fade, leaving their body in a coma and having our new protagonist attempt to get them out of it? Granted the writers have slightly overused this plot across multiple games, comics and novels, but it's definitely something Solas could (and would) do if he wanted.
Well, because it would be moronic, for one. If Solas is legitimately concerned about the Inquisitor and the Inquisition at all (which he clearly isn't, because he allows them to live), then he should cleave their head off their shoulders, not help them get a good night's sleep. Anything less than explicit, definite death isn't good enough. There's no good reason to trap the Inquisitor in the Fade, except to be a sadist, not to mention it opens up a path for Solas to be defeated: as you yourself state, it's possible to bring the Inquisitor back. Why would Solas waste time on a method that doesn't even defeat his foe properly, when, given the power he demonstrates in Trespasser, he could turn the Inquisitor to stone as easily as blinking, and shatter their corpse with one good whack? This is why I've always barracked for a new protagonist and party: as far as I'm concerned, Solas has *already* defeated the Inquisition. Oh sure, it's still functioning (barely). Big whoop. He infiltrated them thoroughly, he knows all their weaknesses, and the only reason the Inquisitor isn't being used as a pigeon roost right now is because Solas allows it. Hence the need for a new protagonist, from an area Solas isn't watching and won't expect. And personally, from a player perspective, I'm not remotely interested in *another* 60 hours of goddamn set-up, or the remotest possibility of DA5 *still* being about stopping a goddamn ancient wizard from assaulting the goddamn Veil. Either rip it down and be done with it, or never mention it again. Fucking Christ. |
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Post by colfoley on Jan 22, 2021 8:00:30 GMT
Inquisitor's death or sacrifice, most likely a choice the new PC makes, is going to be inevitable in DA4. You have the chance to rid of Warden and Hawke so it would be silly if Inquisitor remains in pieces no matter what. I think I'll have to start my first DA4 run with a made up, non-canon Inquisitor honestly I don't see the inevitability of that being a choice.
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Post by xerrai on Jan 22, 2021 17:21:21 GMT
[...] The more I think about it, the more I think they should have ended the DLC right before we entered the final eluvian to meet with Solas. That way we can still technically end with us resolving the Qunari threat and choosing what to do with the Inquisition for the default canon ending. With an advisor questioning Solas's true motive if they still wanted to entice us. Or they could have hidden the Solas interaction behind certain criteria for an optional secret ending. I just think they could have ended the DLC better. I actually agree with your final post that would have been better. Heck could've even had a situation where agents of Fen'harel were running around but the Inquisitor would've been made none the wiser, we the audience would know...which would've left the Inquisition maybe investigating the new threat or something but very behind the scenes. As a point of order though I did consider a 'lost arm' as a major physical impairment. Especially in regards to the setting of Dragon Age given a second hand is pretty much vital for all of the combat styles which has been shown in the games to that point. Yes, there is work arounds, yes I have heard some kind of steam punk prostetic as an option, but that has always been one of the clearest examples of their intention to remove the Inquisitor from the front lines. As for the rest...do *we* as the Inquisitor have to deal with the Solas threat in person? They already fought one god on the front lines, two might be a bit much. In the truest technical sense? Yes. But you can understand why that technical explanation would not suffice for several members of the player base who have extreme expectations for thier PC. Thier Inquisitor already beat the odds and did the impossible several times by now, so a lost arm shouldn't be that much of a hinderance in the long run, right? This mindset is only exacerbated and even validated when they outright show an Inquisitor operating as a Red Jenny (i.e. sneaking around in full combat preparedness) with a replacement arm. If that Inquisitor can so easily replace thier arm and still fight, then why can't the others? They kinda shot themselves in the foot with that slide. The main thing I was getting at with that 'ill for all time' example was that it was iron-clad. There was no workaround nor any pseudo-feasible way to make it go away without sounding ridiculous. But then...if they did go that route, I imagine several players would be majorly upset that thier Inquisitor was dealt with so unceremoniously. Not only did they save the world, but they got an ending that could not be construed as "good" in any sense of the word. And with the Solas-reveal being a factor, that is really going to rub some players the wrong way. Still, even if the mark left them with not just a lost arm but chronic weakness or perhaps a hint that they develop new symptoms over time, I felt that would been better than simply leaving the Inquisitor with a nonexistent arm that can apparently be worked around.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 22, 2021 19:14:18 GMT
Clearly the only solution is to patch in a new ending to Trespasser where Solas kills the Inquisitor. If they had really wanted to tie off the Inquisitor's story conclusively that would have been the way to do it. Instead they had Solas save them, even if he hated their guts and give them run down of his future plans. Alternatively, the Inquisitor leaves the eluvian with their party in tow, they see Solas turn the Viddasala turned to stone, call out to him but Solas just walks off through the eluvian before shutting the network down. Then the Inquisitor finds a message left for them "I suggest you cut it off before it kills you." So their companions oblige and the mage of the party stops them from bleeding to death. Some weeks later they make their way back to the nearest civilisation and by the time they return to the Exalted Council they have no alternative but make a decision on the Inquisition. The problem with how Trespasser ended was the fact that the Inquisitor knows what Solas intends to do and so naturally everyone that I have spoken to outside these boards assumes that the Inquisitor is the one who is going to deal with it. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 22, 2021 19:16:57 GMT
Yes, there is work arounds, yes I have heard some kind of steam punk prostetic as an option, but that has always been one of the clearest examples of their intention to remove the Inquisitor from the front lines. The writers have denied that was the case and even the epilogue has at least one slide showing they are still active (as part of the Red Jennies) despite losing their limb. I've also pointed out you don't need a steam punk prosthetic in a world of magic. Ancient Irish legends have the hero Nuada who is known as Nuada of the Silver arm because after he lost his real hand in battle, a replacement magical silver hand was crafted to replace it. Honestly, if you can have such things in real world magical legends, then you can have them in Thedas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 22, 2021 19:33:04 GMT
That's always been my main gripe with Inquisition. Not that I hated playing as a new protagonist instead of being Hawke again, but that after all that set up in DA2 to have Cassandra recruit them for something important (the Inquisition) and being responsible for setting Corypheus loose, they were completely sidelined in DAI and not even allowed to stick around to help defeat Corypheus permanently. After Adamant, having them stick around Skyhold to serve as an advisor (like Morrigan) or agent (like the Chargers or Sutherland's company) would have been enough to show they were doing important work behind the scenes.
(I know I'm biased as a fan of DA2, but I'd feel the same way about the Inquisitor being given the "I must go now, my planet needs me" treatment in DA4 as well) The problem is that DA2 and Inquisition did not play out as originally intended. DA2 was originally written with the intention of finishing it with the DLC Exalted March which would have had Hawke confronting Corypheus in Kirkwall. It is not clear what would have happened after that but if they were planning on a marriage to end the DLC, then it seems Hawke's story would have been pretty much tied off at the end, not to mention Varric would have been dead. I am only guessing here but Solas' orb blowing up the Conclave may have been dealt with somewhat differently. Anyway, when DG left Bioware he said that the story of Inquisition was only half told by that point but if that was the case clearly it was originally the intent that the Inquisitor would see it through to the end, which if most of Act 1 had not be devoted to solving the mage/Templar situation, which should have been resolved in the Exalted March by Hawke, it might have been possible to do so. Essentially Hawke was shoehorned into DAI when their story should have ended with DA2* and the Inquisitor has been left hanging because their story wasn't ended as it should have been in DAI. Which is why the writer's intent with Trespasser doesn't seem to fit with the situation we were left with. * It was a nonsense having Hawke say that Corypheus was their problem. It was the Grey Warden's mess, not Hawke's. The issue that Hawke should have felt responsible for was the mage/Templar war. That was the whole reason Cassandra was looking for them. Yet they only turned up after this had been dealt with. Of course the reason for this was explained in Asunder but if you hadn't read that book, it would seem very odd that Varric didn't send for Hawke immediately after the Conclave went kaboom, not after we had been attacked by Corypheus. In fact it still seems odd even with Asunder.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 22, 2021 23:30:05 GMT
Clearly the only solution is to patch in a new ending to Trespasser where Solas kills the Inquisitor. If they had really wanted to tie off the Inquisitor's story conclusively that would have been the way to do it. Instead they had Solas save them, even if he hated their guts and give them run down of his future plans. Alternatively, the Inquisitor leaves the eluvian with their party in tow, they see Solas turn the Viddasala turned to stone, call out to him but Solas just walks off through the eluvian before shutting the network down. Then the Inquisitor finds a message left for them "I suggest you cut it off before it kills you." So their companions oblige and the mage of the party stops them from bleeding to death. Some weeks later they make their way back to the nearest civilisation and by the time they return to the Exalted Council they have no alternative but make a decision on the Inquisition. The problem with how Trespasser ended was the fact that the Inquisitor knows what Solas intends to do and so naturally everyone that I have spoken to outside these boards assumes that the Inquisitor is the one who is going to deal with it. I don't agree with the notion that a character's story only "ends" when fans are satisfied with the conclusion. I understand the logic behind the assumption that the Inquisitor would return as the protagonist or in some other major capacity. I just disagree with it. Telling your enemy your entire plan and then letting them live might be how villains commonly operate in fiction, but it's not how someone *should* act if they actually want to succeed. As I already said, I consider the Inquisition to have been conclusively defeated. The only reasons Solas hasn't actually slaughtered them all can only be 1) they pose no genuine threat to his plans, or 2) BioWare are incapable of writing genuinely intelligent characters. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 23, 2021 10:51:57 GMT
As I already said, I consider the Inquisition to have been conclusively defeated. The only reasons Solas hasn't actually slaughtered them all can only be 1) they pose no genuine threat to his plans, or 2) BioWare are incapable of writing genuinely intelligent characters. or as fans have suggested: 3) Getting them to find a way to stop him is part of his plans. The only problem with this one is that he withheld information that he admits might have helped them. I don't agree with the notion that a character's story only "ends" when fans are satisfied with the conclusion. I agree with you. A writer should be true to the story they want to tell. The problem currently is that the writers maintained Trespasser was meant to tie off the Inquisitor's story when in fact it did the complete opposite. Now so far as their organisation and job role was concerned, it did end their story. They are no longer the Lord Inquisitor of Thedas even if they did retain the Inquisition as the Divine's private army. They no longer call the shots; she does and they are answerable to her. So effectively the Inquisitor is no longer the Inquisitor. However, they are still the person to whom Solas revealed his plan and the final basement scene showed that they are still actively engaged in working against him. So whatever the new PC "whom they will never see coming" does, they still have to explain what the old PC is doing behind the scenes to stop Solas' plans from coming to fruition. Whereas, if Solas had never told them his plan, there was no particular reason they should think that he was a threat so could stay in oblivious retirement down south and there would be no need to involve them much at all. I'd also mention that one reason given for the Inquisitor not to be involved is that they need to use people Solas doesn't know. Yet the comics and the Dread Wolf Take You pretty much discount that reason because it is clear the "shadow" Inquisition is using people that Solas knows and furthermore their lines of communication are still very much open to him since he was personally able to infiltrate a meeting of people meant to be helping the Inquisitor in their quest to stop him. For this reason I very much hope the new PC has no connection with the old PC at all or Solas will definitely see them coming.
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Post by samurailink on Jan 23, 2021 14:25:48 GMT
They'll explain it all off as the Inquisitor had the runs that week. Couldn't help, look they wrote you a letter!
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jan 23, 2021 15:12:50 GMT
It's interesting to me that Patrick somehow knows that the big inquisitor question will be answered in marketing. Writing and marketing are two separate departments, but writers can certainly envision what marketing will eventually show - characters, companions, the plot, etc. So I have to wonder what there is of the Inquisitor to market, and how Patrick knows it will be marketed? There could be a lot of reasons, ranging from bad to good, but the fact that Patrick thinks they handled it "very well" gives me hope.
Whatever the Inquisition's involvement, it'd be odd for marketing to repeatedly say "this is your story," while ultimately working for the Shadow!Inquisition. I'm hoping it'll all be up to choice. Players can then decide how much they want their inquisitor to engage, because I know it certainly ranges among the fans.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 23, 2021 18:16:56 GMT
It's interesting to me that Patrick somehow knows that the big inquisitor question will be answered in marketing. Where does he say this? the fact that Patrick thinks they handled it "very well" gives me hope. So was he talking about future marketing, as in "will" or past marketing as in "handled" which presumably would mean the recent trailer? I'm surprised he already knows what the marketing will be if the game is not near release, so does that mean more information is coming out soon? |
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jan 23, 2021 18:57:19 GMT
It's interesting to me that Patrick somehow knows that the big inquisitor question will be answered in marketing. Where does he say this? the fact that Patrick thinks they handled it "very well" gives me hope. So was he talking about future marketing, as in "will" or past marketing as in "handled" which presumably would mean the recent trailer? I'm surprised he already knows what the marketing will be if the game is not near release, so does that mean more information is coming out soon? Patrick tweeted it on 1/21/20, after the trailer. Someone asked how the next dragon age will deal with the inquisitor post-trespasser and they said "Hopefully very well... our marketing folks will start talking about it when it's time." I'm surprised as well, which is why I think the Inquisitor's role in DA4 will be somewhat significant. Again, that could mean different things.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 23, 2021 19:01:46 GMT
"Hopefully very well... our marketing folks will start talking about it when it's time." I take this to mean that he hopes the fans will think the writers have dealt with it well but we will get an insight when they start marketing the game. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 23, 2021 19:46:46 GMT
*in Morgan Freeman’s voice* As it turned out, they did not handle it very well.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 24, 2021 4:15:36 GMT
On the subject of *does the Inquisitor needs to be there* as a practical excercise...in universe...do they?
The Inquisition, even in a shadow form, still seems to have agents, proxies, and people aligned with their interests. While perhaps a surprising candidate for such things Varric has seemed to take the presumptive lead given the trailer...and even if the trailer is just marketing there are still other candidates out there. The Inquisitor does not need to be involved in the plot, any bits of lore or information we need from the information can come from elsewhere.
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Post by duskwanderer on Jan 24, 2021 6:37:50 GMT
I think what a lot of people forget about Solas is that he's not as capable as he seems. Remember that Solas's story is an entire cavalcade of him screwing up, particularly when it comes to other people.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 24, 2021 10:11:00 GMT
I think what a lot of people forget about Solas is that he's not as capable as he seems. Remember that Solas's story is an entire cavalcade of him screwing up, particularly when it comes to other people. He *is* capable of turning entire armies into statues, though, which is really all he needs. You can take all the time you want when everyone who opposed you is now a garden ornament. |
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August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 24, 2021 11:31:24 GMT
He *is* capable of turning entire armies into statues, though, which is really all he needs. It must be possible to protect against this power or why didn't he just turn all the Evanuris into statues? |
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