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Post by colfoley on Oct 21, 2017 23:30:15 GMT
White people live through racism too though, which is why the issues of intersectionality sometimes baffle me because tons of forms of tribalism exist out there that permiate all over the place. Ever been called a fat wop before for example? I'm Italian and it kind of hurts but you get over it, but the casual form of how folks sometimes use slurs or things like that is often universal. As I said, from experience that is something that you learn around the world. I may not know how that fully feels, I may have to research such heartache, but it doesn't stop me from showing empathy to such things to better understand why that is. No, white people can't live through racism. Even if someone calls you names for the color of your skin, you still occupy a privileged place on the society (despite wanting it or not), and your race wasn't slaved for centuries for the only reason of the color of your skin, a slavery that still has effects in western society (especially latin and american societies). So being called a "wop" doesn't have the same weight of a black person being called a "" or "monkey". Also, racism is structural. Cops won't shoot you because you're white, no matter how many people call you "wop". ...sigh.
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 21, 2017 23:32:00 GMT
Im sorry, but a white person can study racism against black people but that is not the same as living it and personally experiencing it. One can study all they want about whats it like to br in combat and interview 1000s of war veterans. But that will never be the same as actually being in combat and having bullets fly over your head, seeing your friends die, being away from home and not knowing if you'll live to see the next day. There are so many intangible factors that can only be known by living it, not studying it. Growing up I lived near a predominantly black neighborhood and on many occasions was called honky, cracka and white boy. I was jumped 3 times by 4 or more brotha's. Does that count as living racism? The crazy part about it was that I was really cool with half their cousins and friends but it didn't really matter. Hate comes from many colors... You're actually living through the reactions against racism. Oppressed do tend to hate those they consider the oppressors (even if they are individuals that had nothing to do with past choices, they still hold the privileges black people don't). It's like a recoil of the racism against black people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2017 23:44:30 GMT
White people live through racism too though, which is why the issues of intersectionality sometimes baffle me because tons of forms of tribalism exist out there that permiate all over the place. Ever been called a fat wop before for example? I'm Italian and it kind of hurts but you get over it, but the casual form of how folks sometimes use slurs or things like that is often universal. As I said, from experience that is something that you learn around the world. I may not know how that fully feels, I may have to research such heartache, but it doesn't stop me from showing empathy to such things to better understand why that is. No, white people can't live through racism. Even if someone calls you names for the color of your skin, you still occupy a privileged place on the society (despite wanting it or not), and your race wasn't slaved for centuries for the only reason of the color of your skin, a slavery that still has effects in western society (especially latin and american societies). So being called a "wop" doesn't have the same weight of a black person being called a "" or "monkey". Also, racism is structural. Cops won't shoot you because you're white, no matter how many people call you "wop". OH BOY...Here we go. I see you fall in to the whole " prejudice + power" crap. I love hearing this argument because it really speaks to the people who use it (and no I don't mean all black people). It basically states that I as a white man can be racist towards the Chinese here in America but when I step in to China I can no longer be racist. I have absolutely NO power in China what-so-ever. You're basically calling racism nothing more than a border dispute. It's stupid...
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 21, 2017 23:46:02 GMT
Depending on your skin color, gender, sexuality, etc, your "life experience" may be quite different. As bossattack said, is incredibly difficult to create deep homosexual characters that suffer in an homophobic society if they never suffered it OR if they didn't research, talked to homossexuals about it, etc. At worst, they can end being offensive, making the homosexual a stereotype (something they do a lot with asians in american movies as well). Look at Game of Thrones, for example. They created a rape scene and they didn't even know it was rape when they were filming it. Interesting your talk about japanese creators, because Hayao Miyazaki, one of the most famous japanese animators of all time, said that first-hand experience (talking to actual people, knowing their feelings, understanding their problems, concerns) is essential to creating these worlds. Yeah it’s called research, a unique concept I know, and having a team that was created around merit, another foreign concept, not diversity hires that are treated as experts on an area just because of their physical attributes and not their field of knowledge. Too bad that BioWare has neither diversity nor knowledge.
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Post by linksocarina on Oct 21, 2017 23:50:06 GMT
White people live through racism too though, which is why the issues of intersectionality sometimes baffle me because tons of forms of tribalism exist out there that permiate all over the place. Ever been called a fat wop before for example? I'm Italian and it kind of hurts but you get over it, but the casual form of how folks sometimes use slurs or things like that is often universal. As I said, from experience that is something that you learn around the world. I may not know how that fully feels, I may have to research such heartache, but it doesn't stop me from showing empathy to such things to better understand why that is. No, white people can't live through racism. Even if someone calls you names for the color of your skin, you still occupy a privileged place on the society (despite wanting it or not), and your race wasn't slaved for centuries for the only reason of the color of your skin, a slavery that still has effects in western society (especially latin and american societies). So being called a "wop" doesn't have the same weight of a black person being called a "" or "monkey". Also, racism is structural. Cops won't shoot you because you're white, no matter how many people call you "wop". Tell that to the Irish in the 1840s...or Italians in the 1900s...or how about Russians in the 50s? If we're going to decry historical bits regarding slavery as evidence of one group of people over another is, in effect, your own form of prejudice on the subject. Just to use Italians as the backdrop, did you know that one of the largest mass lynchings in U.S history was due to anti-Italian sentiment, which saw an angry mob lynch 11 Sicilian immigrants in New Orleans in 1890 because they believed they killed the mayor of New Orleans? A pretty famous guy at that time by the name of Teddy Roosevelt, before he was a pretty good president of the United States, considered it a "good thing" that this happened by the way. In fact, Anti-Italianism was rampant at the turn of the century. It was where the Mafia stereotype became widespread, which was feeding anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic sentiment in the 1900s by many Americans...right down to the revival of the KKK in 1915 which pushed both of those as the "new wave of white nationalism" that would last until 1925. I guess they were privlidged to be white though comparatively...but all the lynchings and slurs and stuff is not of lesser value. See, this is where you are completely wrong on most of those accounts, mostly because it's not about comparing slurs as being worse over each other as some sort of barometer of nastiness. We can compare historical records of different ethnic groups until the cows come home, but it's a moot point because it's not about which slur is better or worse for someone. Fact of the matter is all of them are bad to someone, and for some people just as offensive because of their experience, race, ethnicity and what have you. To say that one is always worse than the other because of historical events, or worse, because of a vaguely defined form of what we consider privilege to be, is why these preconception don't hold water to me. That, by its very nature from a psychological standpoint is showcasing personal prejudice on the subject without showing any empathy to the problem. Its like what I tell my students; talk to each other, learn from differences. Thankfully we live in New York so they are predisposed to it at times but the the issues of African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, LGBT-Americans, and the like are all one in the same when we boil it down to the bare form of racism and prejudice that fuels this hatred, dividing them based on artificial categorization is a major flaw in intersectional theory that gives that prejudice power.
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 21, 2017 23:50:16 GMT
No, white people can't live through racism. Even if someone calls you names for the color of your skin, you still occupy a privileged place on the society (despite wanting it or not), and your race wasn't slaved for centuries for the only reason of the color of your skin, a slavery that still has effects in western society (especially latin and american societies). So being called a "wop" doesn't have the same weight of a black person being called a "" or "monkey". Also, racism is structural. Cops won't shoot you because you're white, no matter how many people call you "wop". OH BOY...Here we go. I see you fall in to the whole " prejudice + power" crap. I love hearing this argument because it really speaks to the people who use it (and no I don't mean all black people). It basically states that I as a white man can be racist towards the Chinese here in America but when I step in to China I can no longer be racist. I have absolutely NO power in China what-so-ever. You're basically calling racism nothing more than a border dispute. It's stupid... What's funny is that I'm white What I'm saying is that it doesn't have the same weight. You can be called a "white boy", you'll still have privileges that they don't. I'm not saying it depends on "border dispute", but it depends on historical and sociological structures (after all, racism is sociologically built, so it logically will depend on the society's history, culture and structure).
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Post by anarchy65 on Oct 21, 2017 23:55:50 GMT
No, white people can't live through racism. Even if someone calls you names for the color of your skin, you still occupy a privileged place on the society (despite wanting it or not), and your race wasn't slaved for centuries for the only reason of the color of your skin, a slavery that still has effects in western society (especially latin and american societies). So being called a "wop" doesn't have the same weight of a black person being called a "" or "monkey". Also, racism is structural. Cops won't shoot you because you're white, no matter how many people call you "wop". Tell that to the Irish in the 1840s...or Italians in the 1900s...or how about Russians in the 50s? If we're going to decry historical bits regarding slavery as evidence of one group of people over another is, in effect, your own form of prejudice on the subject. Just to use Italians as the backdrop, did you know that the largest mass lynching in U.S history was due to anti-Italian sentiment, which saw an angry mob lynch 11 Sicialian immigrants in New Orleans in 1890? A pretty famous guy at that time by the name of Teddy Roosevelt, before he was a pretty good president of the United States, considered it a "good thing." that this happened by the way. In fact, Anti-Italianism was rampant at the turn of the century. It was where the Mafia stereotype became widepsread, which was feeding anti-immigrant and anti-Catholic sentiment in the 1900s by many Americans...right down to the revival of the KKK in 1915 which pushed both of those as the "new wave of white nationalism" that would last until 1925. See, this is where you are completely wrong on most of those accounts, mostly because it's not about comparing slurs as being worse over each other as some sort of barometer of nastiness. We can compare historical records of different ethnic groups until the cows come home, but it's a moot point because it's not about which slur is better or worse for someone. Fact of the matter is all of them are bad to someone, and for some people just as offensive because of their experience, race, ethnicity and what have you. To say that one is always worse than the other because of historical events, or worse, because of a vaguely defined form of what we consider privilege to be, is why these preconception don't hold water to me. That, by its very nature from a psychological standpoint is showcasing personal prejudice on the subject without showing any empathy to the problem. The issues of African-Americans, Italian-Americans, Jewish-Americans, LGBT-Americans, and the like are all one in the same, we just divide them based on artificial categorization which is a major flaw in intersectional theory. As I said, I'm talking about slavery based on skin color only, which is nothing like you mentioned. Also, the thing you mentioned of "anti-italianism" is true, but it happens with immigrants in general in U.S. It still happens a lot less than years past, fortunately. What you mentioned is more connected to xenophobia than racism (besides both being almost brothers sometimes). And as I said, as racism is a social construct, history, culture and society do matter on matters of comparison. Because, as I said, racism is structural. Calling you a "white boy" won't make cops shoot you more. Won't make you less likely to get jobs. Etc. I'm not saying it's right people calling "white boy" or whatever they call you, I'm saying it doesn't have the same weight as racism against black people. It's a fake symmetry. You can't just ignore everything and say that calling a black person a monkey and call a white person a "white boy" is the same thing.
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Post by Gecko on Oct 22, 2017 0:05:56 GMT
And we are done here. If you would like to discuss politics, race etc, please take it to the politics thread: Political discussion
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