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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2016 18:13:26 GMT
Oh, ok then It's possible that I just happen to choose the dialogue options that Blackwall doesn't like, but he has something negative to say about the Inquisitor's choices even when his approval is high enough for him to stick around. Practically every conversation with him is , "whine whine whine...how dare you, Inquisitor! Whine whine whine." Considering the enormous "mistakes" he made in his recent past, he has no right to be as judgmental as he is. Had he ever acknowledged his prejudices, like "I apologize for judging you so harshly in the past. I did not want to watch you repeat my sins," or something similar, then I could probably forgive his attitude. But instead, he continues even after the whole Inquisition finds out what he did. He will actually say that he doesn't want the Inquisitor to repeat his mistakes if the Inquisitor is in a romance with him but low on approval. It's one more reason why some romance specific dialogue should not be specific. And he's surprisingly passive when teammates give him a hard time for the truth. To be honest, I've had other teammates whine just as much about every decision made if I got low approval with them.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 4, 2016 20:33:24 GMT
You know speaking of Asswall.... I took him with me to see Stroud. Now we all know Wardens can sense other Wardens. So why didn't Stroud sense Asswall was not one and call him out on it?!? (good job writers).
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Post by Crim on Oct 4, 2016 20:50:24 GMT
So Blackwall and Sera are neck and neck to win second place for the "Turd of a Companion" award, while Vivi is pretty much has a sure win for the first place. When I started this thread I though that Vivi and Sera would be neck and neck, but nope Viv beats her by a mile and a lot more people hate Blackwall then I thought there would be. And so far no one hates either Cole or Varric, or at least no one hates them enough to choose them. Vivienne usually does win DA:I unpopularity contests pretty handily, from what I've seen at the olde BSN. In truth, she'd probably prefer being hated than being forgotten about/irrelevant. I have a soft spot for acid tongued companions, Morrigan is another who comes to mind. Just love dem putdowns, I can't hate on companions who make me lol like that.
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Post by Nyx on Oct 4, 2016 23:51:19 GMT
It was between Vivienne and Sera. But in the end, if I must choose between two intolerants, I will choose the more willingly ignorant of the two. Sera may be a product of her upbringing, but she is still a person that needs to grow up a bit before I can respect her fully like I do Vivienne who can at least back up her claims with something substantial even though I may not agree with it. This. I wouldn't say I respect Vivienne though, because she is a total hypocrite. She lives in splendor and freedom while ordinary mages suffer abuses and unnecessary restrictions. Sera is immature and sees everything in far too black and white terms. She's like a little brat. I can't stand her.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 5, 2016 0:48:17 GMT
You know speaking of Asswall.... I took him with me to see Stroud. Now we all know Wardens can sense other Wardens. So why didn't Stroud sense Asswall was not one and call him out on it?!? (good job writers).
Stroud was probably distracted by his own fake calling. Even the wardens at Adamant didn't raise a fuss but then, they were in the middle of a war.
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Post by dragontartare on Oct 5, 2016 1:48:35 GMT
Oh, ok then It's possible that I just happen to choose the dialogue options that Blackwall doesn't like, but he has something negative to say about the Inquisitor's choices even when his approval is high enough for him to stick around. Practically every conversation with him is , "whine whine whine...how dare you, Inquisitor! Whine whine whine." Considering the enormous "mistakes" he made in his recent past, he has no right to be as judgmental as he is. Had he ever acknowledged his prejudices, like "I apologize for judging you so harshly in the past. I did not want to watch you repeat my sins," or something similar, then I could probably forgive his attitude. But instead, he continues even after the whole Inquisition finds out what he did. He will actually say that he doesn't want the Inquisitor to repeat his mistakes if the Inquisitor is in a romance with him but low on approval. It's one more reason why some romance specific dialogue should not be specific. And he's surprisingly passive when teammates give him a hard time for the truth. To be honest, I've had other teammates whine just as much about every decision made if I got low approval with them. Good to know about what he says in a romance. I didn't know that, and I agree it shouldn't be restricted to romance. As far as being passive with teammates, though, I don't remember that at all. I understand being whiny with low approval, but he complains even when he approves enough to stick around. Only Sera is whinier than he is, and Sera didn't murder an entire family in cold blood (that we know of). Blackwall isn't nearly as horrible a person as Solas is, but he's much less likable on a day-to-day basis, and nothing will change that for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by opuspace on Oct 5, 2016 2:36:39 GMT
Good to know about what he says in a romance. I didn't know that, and I agree it shouldn't be restricted to romance. As far as being passive with teammates, though, I don't remember that at all. I understand being whiny with low approval, but he complains even when he approves enough to stick around. Only Sera is whinier than he is, and Sera didn't murder an entire family in cold blood (that we know of). Blackwall isn't nearly as horrible a person as Solas is, but he's much less likable on a day-to-day basis, and nothing will change that for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Oh I wouldn't want to make you change your mind. I've done playthroughs where I deliberately ticked him off and it's easy. Handing him a Warden artifact was slightly funny because it took him off guard enough to admit he might have misjudged that Inquisitor. Too bad that Inquisitor didn't help matters later. Still, I'll take him and his romance any day over Sera's abusive behavior in a relationship.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 5, 2016 5:01:36 GMT
It was between Vivienne and Sera. But in the end, if I must choose between two intolerants, I will choose the more willingly ignorant of the two. Sera may be a product of her upbringing, but she is still a person that needs to grow up a bit before I can respect her fully like I do Vivienne who can at least back up her claims with something substantial even though I may not agree with it. This. I wouldn't say I respect Vivienne though, because she is a total hypocrite. She lives in splendor and freedom while ordinary mages suffer abuses and unnecessary restrictions. Sera is immature and sees everything in far too black and white terms. She's like a little brat. I can't stand her. Well if came down to The Iron Bitch and Sera, I'd choose Sera.
Sera is immature and I cannot understand her half the time, but so are most teens. Vivienne well, yes she is a hypocrite and a bitch and also believes her own lies just to increase her station and she uses people for her own personal gain. Don't care for people like that, teens on the other hand are more tolerable. Not saying Sera is on my list of favorite companions but she is better then Vivienne.
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Post by gooeygoobert on Oct 6, 2016 5:25:16 GMT
I fell in love with Viv for seizing an inapropriate time to squeze in one last jab towards the Grey Wardens at Adamant. I completely disagree with her on essentially every decision, but damn it, I have a soft spot for asshole characters.
There really isn't a companion that's struck a nerve. My least favourite has to be Blackwall. Not because I dislike him, but he's too boring for my taste. Even his big reveal fell flat for me.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 6, 2016 5:29:42 GMT
I fell in love with Viv for seizing an inapropriate time to squeze in one last jab towards the Grey Wardens at Adamant. I completely disagree with her on essentially every decision, but damn it, I have a soft spot for asshole characters. There really isn't a companion that's struck a nerve. My least favourite has to be Blackwall. Not because I dislike him, but he's too boring for my taste. Even his big reveal fell flat for me. LOL! Not a fan myself of asshole characters. Sarcastic ones? Yes, please. Asswall looks like my father in his younger years. Its quite...disturbing. Glad they have a MOD to remove that squiriel attached to his face (DA2 joke).
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Oct 6, 2016 17:36:45 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES.
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Post by HYR on Oct 6, 2016 18:32:30 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES. Of the companions who give disapproval for recruiting the 'Wardens, Vivienne's is the least (Slightly Disapproves; whereas the rest moderately or Greatly Disapprove), and her response indicates that she think they are not to be trusted against demons after what we just saw (which, I would say, is a pretty fair argument). I sent the 'Wardens back to Adamant, myself. Cory can manipulate them, so they are risky. Add in that the fact that their mages are stupid, I think they should go home and clean house. Come back to save our asses once you stop killing our asses.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 6, 2016 18:41:26 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES. Of the companions who give disapproval for recruiting the 'Wardens, Vivienne's is the least (Slightly Disapproves; whereas the rest moderately or Greatly Disapprove), and her response indicates that she think they are not to be trusted against demons after what we just saw (which, I would say, is a pretty fair argument). I sent the 'Wardens back to Adamant, myself. Cory can manipulate them, so they are risky. Add in that the fact that their mages are stupid, I think they should go home and clean house. Come back to save our asses once you stop killing our asses. (Not ALL of their mages are stupid, only their supid mages are stupid.)
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Post by HYR on Oct 6, 2016 18:43:35 GMT
Of the companions who give disapproval for recruiting the 'Wardens, Vivienne's is the least (Slightly Disapproves; whereas the rest moderately or Greatly Disapprove), and her response indicates that she think they are not to be trusted against demons after what we just saw (which, I would say, is a pretty fair argument). I sent the 'Wardens back to Adamant, myself. Cory can manipulate them, so they are risky. Add in that the fact that their mages are stupid, I think they should go home and clean house. Come back to save our asses once you stop killing our asses. (Not ALL of their mages are stupid, only their supid mages are stupid.) Are you Anders??
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Post by Catilina on Oct 6, 2016 18:57:08 GMT
(Not ALL of their mages are stupid, only their supid mages are stupid.) Are you Anders?? (No, I'm Justice, and this is the Truth.)
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Post by Cantina on Oct 6, 2016 19:12:15 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES. Of the companions who give disapproval for recruiting the 'Wardens, Vivienne's is the least (Slightly Disapproves; whereas the rest moderately or Greatly Disapprove), and her response indicates that she think they are not to be trusted against demons after what we just saw (which, I would say, is a pretty fair argument). I sent the 'Wardens back to Adamant, myself. Cory can manipulate them, so they are risky. Add in that the fact that their mages are stupid, I think they should go home and clean house. Come back to save our asses once you stop killing our asses. Truth be told it matters not if you do or you do not. While the game says there will be consequences with your choice - there is none.
I kept the Grey Wardens around, simply because if another blight comes Thedas will need them.
The problem with Grey Wardens is not that their mages are stupid, the problem is they will do anything to stop The Blight without much thought.
Most of the blame lies with Cory, but The Wardens are not entirely excuse from it.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 22:06:21 GMT
Tough choice between Varric the coward and conniving little shit, and Cole the universe's most boring demon. Voted for the former just because the latter isn't mandatory after CotJ.
Not surprised Viv's so unpopular. Most people can't handle an alpha female. IMO she's the best DAI companion. Only mage I can tolerate other than Morrigan. Love her as Divine, cracking down on the indolent rebel scum.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 6, 2016 22:11:22 GMT
Tough choice between Varric the coward and conniving little shit, and Cole the universe's most boring demon. Voted for the former just because the latter isn't mandatory after CotJ. Not surprised Viv's so unpopular. Most people can't handle an alpha female. IMO she's the best DAI companion. Only mage I can tolerate other than Morrigan. Love her as Divine, cracking down on the indolent rebel scum. Cassandra for example also alpha, and I like her, but not Vivienne. Vivienne's manners are annoying. EXTREMELY. And she is social climber poverhungry woman, alpha or not: not honorable.
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Post by xerrai on Oct 6, 2016 22:51:15 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES. To be fair, most Thedosians are likely totally ignorant on what is truly required to end a blight (destroying the archedemon soul). In their minds, an army to reach and kill the archedemon would be enough. So without that "only WE can do it" factor, the wardens actually just seem to be an Order that elevates the lowest people of society into a position of specific political immunity and rights for no other reason than "we are an old order". Their special immunity is an open gateway for extremes, like the stuff we see at adamant--demon summoning and blood sacrifice. It's an order that can abuse its power simply because of it's history. They are wrong, of course, but that doesn't mean its not understandable.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2016 23:17:47 GMT
I wonder how Viv would handle a Blight without Wardens. Would she kill the archdemon herself? I hate characters that look down on the sacrafice the grey wardens go through to SAVE THEIR ASSES. To be fair, most Thedosians are likely totally ignorant on what is truly required to end a blight (destroying the archedemon soul). In their minds, an army to reach and kill the archedemon would be enough. So without that "only WE can do it" factor, the wardens actually just seem to be an Order that elevates the lowest people of society into a position of specific political immunity and rights for no other reason than "we are an old order". Their special immunity is an open gateway for extremes, like the stuff we see at adamant--demon summoning and blood sacrifice. It's an order that can abuse its power simply because of it's history. They are wrong, of course, but that doesn't mean its not understandable. But the people at Ostagar knew that Grey Wardens were resistant to the taint, and it is the taint that is the problem with fighting against darkspawn. If you fought darkspawn with just a regular army, you would loose far more men to the taint then you would if you just had a bunch of Grey Wardens.
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 9, 2016 8:47:31 GMT
Tough choice between Varric the coward and conniving little shit, and Cole the universe's most boring demon. Voted for the former just because the latter isn't mandatory after CotJ. Not surprised Viv's so unpopular. Most people can't handle an alpha female. IMO she's the best DAI companion. Only mage I can tolerate other than Morrigan. Love her as Divine, cracking down on the indolent rebel scum. People dislike Vivienne because she does not walk the talk. Put it simply, she is a hypocrite. She says she wants mages to have restrictions but she is not willing to be constrained by them. To be fair, Vivienne is more politician than she is a mage, so hypocrisy might be par for the course. I don't get why Vivienne is obsessed with accruing more political power though. The greatest power in Thedas is not politics, it is magic - Even more so if you are a mage. If she truly desires to be at the top, she should focus on honing her magics while keeping political power as a secondary. It is probably why Morrigan ended up ousting her from Celene's side - Morrigan is the more powerful mage. I mean, all the political power and Grand Game mastery in the world is not going to mean anything when you have someone who can petrify others by a mere thought and an eye flash (no hand gestures required) running around trying to bring about an apocalyptic event.
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Post by goishen on Oct 9, 2016 16:50:27 GMT
I've disliked Vivienne since the time that she told me that Kirkwall wasn't as bad as everyone says it was. Wait, what? I could put up with her snotty attitude until then. After that? Nope. She's on my shit list, and I even asked about having her killed off/excluded from the group.
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Post by Cantina on Oct 9, 2016 20:52:50 GMT
Tough choice between Varric the coward and conniving little shit, and Cole the universe's most boring demon. Voted for the former just because the latter isn't mandatory after CotJ. Not surprised Viv's so unpopular. Most people can't handle an alpha female. IMO she's the best DAI companion. Only mage I can tolerate other than Morrigan. Love her as Divine, cracking down on the indolent rebel scum. Um. What?
Vivienne is by no means an alpha female. I personally don't see the necessity to have such a title but if such a title was needed I'd give it to Cassandra.
You do realize that Vivienne only joined the Inquisition to further her own power, yes? Which is similar to what Lohgain did. In my opinion: taking advantage of a crisis to further your own personal gains is despicable. I could go into further discussion about why Vivienne is a vile piece of shit, but that would be very long. As for her being Divine, well to each their own. I for one do not want a tyrant sitting on the Sunburst Throne.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 9, 2016 21:02:18 GMT
Tough choice between Varric the coward and conniving little shit, and Cole the universe's most boring demon. Voted for the former just because the latter isn't mandatory after CotJ. Not surprised Viv's so unpopular. Most people can't handle an alpha female. IMO she's the best DAI companion. Only mage I can tolerate other than Morrigan. Love her as Divine, cracking down on the indolent rebel scum. Um. What?
Vivienne is by no means an alpha female. I personally don't see the necessity to have such a title but if such a title was needed I'd give it to Cassandra.
You do realize that Vivienne only joined the Inquisition to further her own power, yes? Which is similar to what Lohgain did. In my opinion: taking advantage of a crisis to further your own personal gains is despicable. I could go into further discussion about why Vivienne is a vile piece of shit, but that would be very long. As for her being Divine, well to each their own. I for one do not want a tyrant sitting on the Sunburst Throne. Loghain and Vivienne are much different,i don't see any parallell between these two.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 9, 2016 21:06:35 GMT
I've disliked Vivienne since the time that she told me that Kirkwall wasn't as bad as everyone says it was. Wait, what? I could put up with her snotty attitude until then. After that? Nope. She's on my shit list, and I even asked about having her killed off/excluded from the group. It doesn't make sense wanting to kill Vivienne without reason,there are no dialogues that support in some scene a motivation to kill Vivienne. She is just a regular mage.
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