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Andrew Lucas
1,562
Sept 11, 2016 18:33:18 GMT
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andrewlucas
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Nov 20, 2017 2:15:43 GMT
Oh, you're beating horse by now - wait, is it positive? Then by all means, keep going foward.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 2:17:27 GMT
No problem, I will. If you wanted to play anyone other than a "nice guy" the dialogue options are quite underwhelming. I liked how Tom delivered the evil solutions, he overall sounded far less wooden than Shepard did for the entire ME1. I do not know about Frida, I played my girl as good. Ryder certainly cussed a lot too & I think shot just as many people without trial or consequences as Shepard in ME1. And, honestly, I can’t say hanging up on the powerful people was particularly terryfing.... Honestly some of Frida's lines were a bit too childlike ("Dent your locker and the principle is going to be piiiiissssed") |
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stealthfox94
Be yourself
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Post by stealthfox94 on Nov 20, 2017 2:42:42 GMT
I have spent so much time watching this game build shaders. How inefficient is this engine? I will say that if you play with a controller the lack of a pause isn't as big a deal as I thought it would be. I used to pause to aim every shot. It's a big deal. I din't use it quite that much. But I did use it for all abilities. |
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822
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16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 20, 2017 2:42:45 GMT
I liked how Tom delivered the evil solutions, he overall sounded far less wooden than Shepard did for the entire ME1. I do not know about Frida, I played my girl as good. Ryder certainly cussed a lot too & I think shot just as many people without trial or consequences as Shepard in ME1. And, honestly, I can’t say hanging up on the powerful people was particularly terryfing.... Honestly some of Frida's lines were a bit too childlike ("Dent your locker and the principle is going to be piiiiissssed") When does Ryder say that locker remark? |
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 2:43:55 GMT
Honestly some of Frida's lines were a bit too childlike ("Dent your locker and the principle is going to be piiiiissssed") When does Ryder say that locker remark? Its the casual line to Liam after he is freaking out about how his mission is going pear shaped. |
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Be yourself
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Post by stealthfox94 on Nov 20, 2017 2:46:16 GMT
At times in the original trilogy there were only 2 real dialogue options to choose between, and because one was renegade it meant that if you wanted to play nice the game almost railroaded you down a certain path. In Andromeda, because there are no real renegade options, for those playing a nice character the options will seem to have opened up a little. However if you want to play an arsehole, in Andromeda Bioware completely nerfed your options. Ryder is nice and you will play nice.Because of this there will be disagreements within the community over how varied the dialogue options are. Just in case anyone was wondering  The issue is in Me1 especially and to some degree in Me2. Renegade Sheppard was just a complete racist dick, especially if you played male Sheppard. With Ryder it is possible to be a sarcastic wise cracking douche, but yeah ultimately you're still a good guy. Most of the people you have the option of shooting are obvious villains. |
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colfoley
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 2:50:29 GMT
At times in the original trilogy there were only 2 real dialogue options to choose between, and because one was renegade it meant that if you wanted to play nice the game almost railroaded you down a certain path. In Andromeda, because there are no real renegade options, for those playing a nice character the options will seem to have opened up a little. However if you want to play an arsehole, in Andromeda Bioware completely nerfed your options. Ryder is nice and you will play nice.Because of this there will be disagreements within the community over how varied the dialogue options are. Just in case anyone was wondering The issue is in Me1 especially and to some degree in Me2. Renegade Sheppard was just a complete racist dick, especially if you played male Sheppard. With Ryder it is possible to be a sarcastic wise cracking douche, but yeah ultimately you're still a good guy. Most of the people you have the option of shooting are obvious villains. This is precisely the problem. The problem is a lot of people have expecations for their role playing experiences, and one of them seems to be 'I want the ability to play as muhahahaha eviiilll', which while I do understand the impulse for ninty nine percent of humanity throughout all of history that is not the case. Sometimes its even bad story telling to have villains be that mustache twirlingly evil. So yes, Ryder cannot be as malicious, arrogant, trolley, or borderline psychotic as Shepard...but that is not exactly a good measuring stick to use. Ryder is far more realstic, and hence a far better RP Protagonist (IMO) precisely because he is a normal human...much like the Inquisitor. Not super good and angellic, but not super evil, but real and down to earth. |
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stealthfox94
Be yourself
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Post by stealthfox94 on Nov 20, 2017 2:55:19 GMT
The issue is in Me1 especially and to some degree in Me2. Renegade Sheppard was just a complete racist dick, especially if you played male Sheppard. With Ryder it is possible to be a sarcastic wise cracking douche, but yeah ultimately you're still a good guy. Most of the people you have the option of shooting are obvious villains. This is precisely the problem. The problem is a lot of people have expecations for their role playing experiences, and one of them seems to be 'I want the ability to play as muhahahaha eviiilll', which while I do understand the impulse for ninty nine percent of humanity throughout all of history that is not the case. Sometimes its even bad story telling to have villains be that mustache twirlingly evil. So yes, Ryder cannot be as malicious, arrogant, trolley, or borderline psychotic as Shepard...but that is not exactly a good measuring stick to use. Ryder is far more realstic, and hence a far better RP Protagonist (IMO) precisely because he is a normal human...much like the Inquisitor. Not super good and angellic, but not super evil, but real and down to earth. Full renegade Zaeed loyalty mission was probably the closest Sheppard ever got to being a villain, even killing Wrex would be understandable. Ultimately I like how dialogue is less cut and dry with Ryder, I just feel like more could be done with actual decision making. |
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 2:56:40 GMT
This is precisely the problem. The problem is a lot of people have expecations for their role playing experiences, and one of them seems to be 'I want the ability to play as muhahahaha eviiilll', which while I do understand the impulse for ninty nine percent of humanity throughout all of history that is not the case. Sometimes its even bad story telling to have villains be that mustache twirlingly evil. So yes, Ryder cannot be as malicious, arrogant, trolley, or borderline psychotic as Shepard...but that is not exactly a good measuring stick to use. Ryder is far more realstic, and hence a far better RP Protagonist (IMO) precisely because he is a normal human...much like the Inquisitor. Not super good and angellic, but not super evil, but real and down to earth. Full renegade Zaeed loyalty mission was probably the closest Sheppard ever got to being a villain, even killing Wrex would be understandable. Ultimately I like how dialogue is less cut and dry with Ryder, I just feel like more could be done with actual decision making. talking about leaving Zaaed to die or leaving the people to die? |
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stealthfox94
Be yourself
678
Jan 14, 2017 17:48:01 GMT
January 2017
stealthfox94
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Post by stealthfox94 on Nov 20, 2017 3:04:40 GMT
Full renegade Zaeed loyalty mission was probably the closest Sheppard ever got to being a villain, even killing Wrex would be understandable. Ultimately I like how dialogue is less cut and dry with Ryder, I just feel like more could be done with actual decision making. talking about leaving Zaaed to die or leaving the people to die? Was initially talking about leaving the people to die, but leaving Zaeed to die is pretty bad to. |
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colfoley
19,123
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 3:07:07 GMT
talking about leaving Zaaed to die or leaving the people to die? Was initially talking about leaving the people to die, but leaving Zaeed to die is pretty bad to. Huh I never thought of that as being especially evil. At least in the grand scheme of things and some of the other stuff you can do in RPGs and BioWare games in general. Hell I still remember noping the hell right out of there when Malog Ball wanted me to start beating on that idiot with the mace of...something or other. Its been a long time since I've tried to play Skyrim. |
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stealthfox94
Be yourself
678
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stealthfox94
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Post by stealthfox94 on Nov 20, 2017 3:12:33 GMT
Was initially talking about leaving the people to die, but leaving Zaeed to die is pretty bad to. Huh I never thought of that as being especially evil. At least in the grand scheme of things and some of the other stuff you can do in RPGs and BioWare games in general. Hell I still remember noping the hell right out of there when Malog Ball wanted me to start beating on that idiot with the mace of...something or other. Its been a long time since I've tried to play Skyrim. I said it was the closest Sheppard ever came to being pure evil, I didn't say it was evil compared to other RPG's. |
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colfoley
19,123
Aug 17, 2016 10:19:37 GMT
August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 3:15:02 GMT
Huh I never thought of that as being especially evil. At least in the grand scheme of things and some of the other stuff you can do in RPGs and BioWare games in general. Hell I still remember noping the hell right out of there when Malog Ball wanted me to start beating on that idiot with the mace of...something or other. Its been a long time since I've tried to play Skyrim. I said it was the closest Sheppard ever came to being pure evil, I didn't say it was evil compared to other RPG's. True.  But I still find it as not really being that evil. Granted it made me uncomfortable doing it so maybe it counts but I also think that the argument could be made that it is vital to stop Vido so he dosen't do it to anyone else. |
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abedsbrother
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Abedsbrother
XBL Gamertag: DonDiego256
Posts: 442 Likes: 992
inherit
516
0
992
abedsbrother
442
August 2016
abedsbrother
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Abedsbrother
DonDiego256
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Post by abedsbrother on Nov 20, 2017 3:24:10 GMT
The issue is in Me1 especially and to some degree in Me2. Renegade Sheppard was just a complete racist dick, especially if you played male Sheppard. With Ryder it is possible to be a sarcastic wise cracking douche, but yeah ultimately you're still a good guy. Most of the people you have the option of shooting are obvious villains. This is precisely the problem. The problem is a lot of people have expecations for their role playing experiences, and one of them seems to be 'I want the ability to play as muhahahaha eviiilll', which while I do understand the impulse for ninty nine percent of humanity throughout all of history that is not the case. Sometimes its even bad story telling to have villains be that mustache twirlingly evil. So yes, Ryder cannot be as malicious, arrogant, trolley, or borderline psychotic as Shepard...but that is not exactly a good measuring stick to use. Ryder is far more realstic, and hence a far better RP Protagonist (IMO) precisely because he is a normal human...much like the Inquisitor. Not super good and angellic, but not super evil, but real and down to earth. I'd argue that Ryder not being "allowed" to be malicious, arrogant, troll-y, or borderline psychotic makes him / her less realistic, not more - and therefore potentially less interesting to role-play as. Each to their own. |
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 20, 2017 3:28:05 GMT
When does Ryder say that locker remark? Its the casual line to Liam after he is freaking out about how his mission is going pear shaped. Ah, I always chose the professional dialogue there. I liked how Ryder sounded in that bit. |
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 3:28:31 GMT
This is precisely the problem. The problem is a lot of people have expecations for their role playing experiences, and one of them seems to be 'I want the ability to play as muhahahaha eviiilll', which while I do understand the impulse for ninty nine percent of humanity throughout all of history that is not the case. Sometimes its even bad story telling to have villains be that mustache twirlingly evil. So yes, Ryder cannot be as malicious, arrogant, trolley, or borderline psychotic as Shepard...but that is not exactly a good measuring stick to use. Ryder is far more realstic, and hence a far better RP Protagonist (IMO) precisely because he is a normal human...much like the Inquisitor. Not super good and angellic, but not super evil, but real and down to earth. I'd argue that Ryder not being "allowed" to be malicious, arrogant, troll-y, or borderline psychotic makes him / her less realistic, not more - and therefore potentially less interesting to role-play as. Each to their own. The problem is Shepard could do things, without any consequences, which make no sense. IE punching reporters, IE being repeatedly unprofessional to Galactic representatives, IE working with a known terrorist organisation and renouncing all ties with said galactic government. Any one of those things should have gotten them at the least severely reprimanded, but more likely fired or thrown in jail and its just...hand waved away because 'dammit we have to give the players a choice to act like complete fools'. And it also had the effect of making Shepard, especially later on, bi polar, and not nuanced. Either mind numbingly goody too shoes, or completley and bizarely dickish. |
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 3:29:02 GMT
Its the casual line to Liam after he is freaking out about how his mission is going pear shaped. Ah, I always chose the professional dialogue there. I liked how Ryder sounded in that bit. ....Not sure if either of my Ryders did the professional line there. |
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colfoley
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August 2016
colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 3:33:27 GMT
I think part of the problem is that a lot of the fan actions were met with a lot of fanfare, musical tones, some dramatic quip or line from Shepard, and slow build it (I have had enough of your disengenious solutions! *telegraphs punch from a mile away* bam!) whereas the renegade options in MEA are just...done. By and large. I mean there is some telegraphing since the player has to know what they do before they do something, but Ryder just does these things as a matter of course. But, since the game spends far less time on it, it makes it seem somehow less. For some weird reason.
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abedsbrother
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Abedsbrother
XBL Gamertag: DonDiego256
Posts: 442 Likes: 992
inherit
516
0
992
abedsbrother
442
August 2016
abedsbrother
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Abedsbrother
DonDiego256
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Post by abedsbrother on Nov 20, 2017 4:17:18 GMT
I'd argue that Ryder not being "allowed" to be malicious, arrogant, troll-y, or borderline psychotic makes him / her less realistic, not more - and therefore potentially less interesting to role-play as. Each to their own. The problem is Shepard could do things, without any consequences, which make no sense. IE punching reporters, IE being repeatedly unprofessional to Galactic representatives, IE working with a known terrorist organisation and renouncing all ties with said galactic government. Any one of those things should have gotten them at the least severely reprimanded, but more likely fired or thrown in jail and its just...hand waved away because 'dammit we have to give the players a choice to act like complete fools'. And it also had the effect of making Shepard, especially later on, bi polar, and not nuanced. Either mind numbingly goody too shoes, or completley and bizarely dickish. - punching reporters - There was a ruckus caused. Hacket "smoothed it out" in ME1. In ME2 and ME3, one Shepard's closest associates on the Citadel happens to be in charge of that district's C-sec division - and Bailey was already making deals for personal and political gain. - unprofessional to galactic representatives - human arrogance. They're famous for it in the ME universe. A minor point, anyway. "Help, that human was rude to me!" isn't a very convincing complaint. - working with a known terrorist org - actually, not known. Aside from its status as a rogue black-ops unit, few people knew what Cerberus was actually doing. And knowledge even of that status was limited to the higher reaches of the Alliance. - renouncing all ties with said galactic government - choosing to reinstate Shepard's spectre status in ME2 definitely proves your point. |
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
inherit
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Nov 25, 2024 13:02:34 GMT
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Obadiah
2,677
August 2016
obadiah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Obadaya
ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Nov 20, 2017 4:43:57 GMT
No problem, I will. If you wanted to play anyone other than a "nice guy" the dialogue options are quite underwhelming. I liked how Tom delivered the evil solutions, he overall sounded far less wooden than Shepard did for the entire ME1. I do not know about Frida, I played my girl as good. Ryder certainly cussed a lot too & I think shot just as many people without trial or consequences as Shepard in ME1. And, honestly, I can’t say hanging up on the powerful people was particularly terryfing.... "Evil" solutions? This is actually my beef with the conversation system - there didn't seem to be evil (or pernicious, or ruthless, or angry) options, they all seemed like variations of "good," whereas Shep could go "complete maniac" sometimes. P.S. I did mostly like the game though. |
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on Nov 20, 2017 4:50:39 GMT
I liked how Tom delivered the evil solutions, he overall sounded far less wooden than Shepard did for the entire ME1. I do not know about Frida, I played my girl as good. Ryder certainly cussed a lot too & I think shot just as many people without trial or consequences as Shepard in ME1. And, honestly, I can’t say hanging up on the powerful people was particularly terryfing.... "Evil" solutions? This is actually my beef with the conversation system - there didn't seem to be evil (or pernicious, or ruthless, or angry) options, they all seemed like variations of "good," whereas Shep could go "complete maniac" sometimes.P.S. I did mostly like the game though. There was the term I was looking for. |
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 20, 2017 6:09:01 GMT
Complete maniac is kind of a problem if the player cares about coherent NPC reactions -- except for the NPCs who are maniacs themselves, of course. But I can see the case for just taking the coherence hit in the interest of player freedom.
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river82
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Post by river82 on Nov 20, 2017 6:10:00 GMT
"Evil" solutions? This is actually my beef with the conversation system - there didn't seem to be evil (or pernicious, or ruthless, or angry) options, they all seemed like variations of "good," whereas Shep could go "complete maniac" sometimes. Heh: |
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inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 20, 2017 6:37:20 GMT
Renegon is the best. Done right, it lacks full Renegade's ridiculousness or full Paragon's boring wet blanket...icity, and has just enough edge to keep those puny NPC's on their pixel toes.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 20, 2017 6:40:05 GMT
Complete maniac is kind of a problem if the player cares about coherent NPC reactions -- except for the NPCs who are maniacs themselves, of course. But I can see the case for just taking the coherence hit in the interest of player freedom. DA:O is an especially bad case. My fool-around playthrough has me knifing as many people as possible, stealing from as many as possible and being as big a jerk to as many unfortunate characters as I can and somehow I'm just getting away with this crap and being branded a hero. I killed so many guards in Denerim. |
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But I still find it as not really being that evil. Granted it made me uncomfortable doing it so maybe it counts but I also think that the argument could be made that it is vital to stop Vido so he dosen't do it to anyone else.
