inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Feb 26, 2022 10:30:08 GMT
Tbh i think i developed a masochist fetish where i like to watch, with dark glee, my favorite fantasy stories being dragged through the mud by mediocre writers who suffer from delusions of grandeur. It is possible that it might not be as bad as people are predicting. Even with some dodgy casting decisions, the overall narrative could be okay. I was checking the appendices to Return of the King about the Second Age and there is a pretty good framework for story there which could bring in some "modern" ideology without forcing it. For example, the Numenorean kings became arrogant and overbearing in their dealings with what they regarded as lesser men of Middle Earth. Tolkien specifically relates how they subjugated the men of Harad in the south, whom he described as having dark skins, demanding fealty and ongoing tribute from them. Sauron was subsequently able to manipulate these people into supporting him because of their hatred for the Numenoreans. Up until the fall of Numenor Sauron didn't look evil and so it was not difficult for him to fool people. In other words he was a charismatic villain. Later in the Third Age his agents were able to do the same but Peter Jackson opted to dodge the hot potato of making the Cosairs of Umbar and the Mumak handlers dark skinned, because without this background information he probably feared the backlash of depicting them that way. However, Tolkien was not being racist in doing this and even addressed the fact that the men of Harad were not of themselves evil by having Sam, on seeing one of these dark skinned men fall near him, reflect " He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies and threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not rather have remained there in peace..." Ultimately, it is Aragorn, as King Elessar, who heals the division of the past and makes peace with the men of Harad but, of course, that lies outside the scope of the LOTR film. Still, since the origins of that conflict lie in the Second Age, the writers of Rings of Power could definitely deal with it. Oddly though, they seemed to focus on images of black elves and dwarves, with no suggestion of the dark skinned civilisation of men in the south. May be this was done deliberately though, to cultivate dissent in order to get more publicity for their series. This is why I will avoid the series until I start to get feedback on what it is actually like from sources that I trust. Then, may be, I will dip my toe in the water.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,456
Hier0phant
3,816
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Feb 26, 2022 22:09:18 GMT
Tbh i think i developed a masochist fetish where i like to watch, with dark glee, my favorite fantasy stories being dragged through the mud by mediocre writers who suffer from delusions of grandeur. It is possible that it might not be as bad as people are predicting. Even with some dodgy casting decisions, the overall narrative could be okay. I was checking the appendices to Return of the King about the Second Age and there is a pretty good framework for story there which could bring in some "modern" ideology without forcing it. For example, the Numenorean kings became arrogant and overbearing in their dealings with what they regarded as lesser men of Middle Earth. Tolkien specifically relates how they subjugated the men of Harad in the south, whom he described as having dark skins, demanding fealty and ongoing tribute from them. Sauron was subsequently able to manipulate these people into supporting him because of their hatred for the Numenoreans. Up until the fall of Numenor Sauron didn't look evil and so it was not difficult for him to fool people. In other words he was a charismatic villain. Later in the Third Age his agents were able to do the same but Peter Jackson opted to dodge the hot potato of making the Cosairs of Umbar and the Mumak handlers dark skinned, because without this background information he probably feared the backlash of depicting them that way. However, Tolkien was not being racist in doing this and even addressed the fact that the men of Harad were not of themselves evil by having Sam, on seeing one of these dark skinned men fall near him, reflect " He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies and threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would not rather have remained there in peace..." Ultimately, it is Aragorn, as King Elessar, who heals the division of the past and makes peace with the men of Harad but, of course, that lies outside the scope of the LOTR film. Still, since the origins of that conflict lie in the Second Age, the writers of Rings of Power could definitely deal with it. Oddly though, they seemed to focus on images of black elves and dwarves, with no suggestion of the dark skinned civilisation of men in the south. May be this was done deliberately though, to cultivate dissent in order to get more publicity for their series. This is why I will avoid the series until I start to get feedback on what it is actually like from sources that I trust. Then, may be, I will dip my toe in the water. Agreed. I don't think the writers will exlore the Numenorean Haradim conflict beyond giving the audience a few surface level allusions to American race relations because the main goal for the showrunners is to generate buzz and increase viewership, and the easiest method is by giving increased focus to characters who non book-readers might be familiar with like Galadriel or Elrond. What you suggested would make for a good series but my expectations are low, and wouldn't be surprised if any focus on race relations is primarily centered on the elves, and dwarves instead.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Feb 27, 2022 10:19:25 GMT
What you suggested would make for a good series but my expectations are low, and wouldn't be surprised if any focus on race relations is primarily centered on the elves, and dwarves instead. "Nine for mortal men, doomed to die." Sauron gave at least one, possibly more, of the rings to the kings of the south among others, so it is very relevant to the title of the series. Sauron intended to subjugate everyone with his rings and the Ring Wraiths were the ultimate fate of these kings of men so they must surely explore their origins at some point.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 4, 2022 18:33:54 GMT
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:55:02 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 4, 2022 21:00:01 GMT
Yeah, the moment people start decrying anyone who doesn't like show X or movie Y as racist/xenophobic/etc. is a key indicator that the work they are so vehemently defending is not only garbage from a literary point of view but also woke garbage at that. No thanks Amazon. You can take that billion dollars you spent on this trash and light it on fire; it would be a much more practical way to spend the money.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:12:04 GMT
5,933
q5tyhj
gettin' Dingy with it
2,041
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Mar 4, 2022 22:38:17 GMT
Not defending the original article, but the piece you've linked here is just hysterical clickbait, bordering on outright misrepresentation: the original DenofGeek article does not compare Rings of Power critics to mass murderers (contrary to the clickbait title), but it does mention that some far-right extremist groups/individuals have co-opted Tolkien's work and mentions a couple of rightwing mass murderers who belonged to this category. Which is, obviously, not the same thing at all.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 5, 2022 1:01:27 GMT
Not defending the original article, but the piece you've linked here is just hysterical clickbait, bordering on outright misrepresentation: the original DenofGeek article does not compare Rings of Power critics to mass murderers (contrary to the clickbait title), but it does mention that some far-right extremist groups/individuals have co-opted Tolkien's work and mentions a couple of rightwing mass murderers who belonged to this category. Which is, obviously, not the same thing at all. Then why the need to bring these groups up in an article about why "the fandom needs to change"? It's clearly an attempt to draw a parallel between "extreme" fan reaction (as the author sees it) and ACTUAL extremists.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:12:04 GMT
5,933
q5tyhj
gettin' Dingy with it
2,041
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Mar 7, 2022 17:32:45 GMT
Not defending the original article, but the piece you've linked here is just hysterical clickbait, bordering on outright misrepresentation: the original DenofGeek article does not compare Rings of Power critics to mass murderers (contrary to the clickbait title), but it does mention that some far-right extremist groups/individuals have co-opted Tolkien's work and mentions a couple of rightwing mass murderers who belonged to this category. Which is, obviously, not the same thing at all. Then why the need to bring these groups up in an article about why "the fandom needs to change"? It's clearly an attempt to draw a parallel between "extreme" fan reaction (as the author sees it) and ACTUAL extremists. No, they're mentioned as an extreme case, explicitly. The point was that Tolkien's work has frequently been a vehicle or battleground for ideological or cultural arguments, and has even been cited and co-opted by actual extremists, like Anders Breivik. So they weren't comparing critics to mass murderers, its as simple as that; the BoundingIntoComics headline was hysterical/hyperbolic clickbait bordering on outright misrepresentation. Textbook faux-outrage in order to get clicks. Not saying the DenofGeeks article wasn't also garbage (it looked like it mostly was), but the one you linked was 100% bullshit as well.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:55:02 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 7, 2022 22:17:56 GMT
Though why even bring up the mention of murderers and bigots at all if the whole point of the article is about the show?
Seems the writer is trying to imply that those who don’t like the direction of the show align with the views of said extremists.
It’s the same thing as equating everyone who didn’t like the Star Wars sequel trilogy as misogynistic racists.
|
|
inherit
156
0
Apr 22, 2017 19:25:27 GMT
6,530
Onecrazymonkey1
"A person of any mental quality has ideas of his own. This is common sense." Franz Liszt
2,234
August 2016
onecrazymonkey1
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Onecrazymonkey1 on Mar 7, 2022 22:26:37 GMT
Though why even bring up the mention of murderers and bigots at all if the whole point of the article is about the show? Seems the writer is trying to imply that those who don’t like the direction of the show align with the views of said extremists. It’s the same thing as equating everyone who didn’t like the Star Wars sequel trilogy as misogynistic racists. They magically bring up the racist/sexist/homophobic angle with most fandoms now in order to shield themselves and shut down any and all of the legitimate criticism, it's a pattern.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:55:02 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 7, 2022 22:32:54 GMT
Though why even bring up the mention of murderers and bigots at all if the whole point of the article is about the show? Seems the writer is trying to imply that those who don’t like the direction of the show align with the views of said extremists. It’s the same thing as equating everyone who didn’t like the Star Wars sequel trilogy as misogynistic racists. They magically bring up the racist/sexist/homophobic angle with most fandoms now in order to shield themselves and shut down any and all of the legitimate criticism, it's a pattern. Exactly. Which is why I know this show will be woke garbage. It’s only when you don’t have anything of actual substance to defend that you pull out the race card.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:12:04 GMT
5,933
q5tyhj
gettin' Dingy with it
2,041
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Mar 7, 2022 23:21:39 GMT
Though why even bring up the mention of murderers and bigots at all if the whole point of the article is about the show? Because they were making the point that Tolkien's work has often been the subject of (or vehicle for) ideological/cultural conflict or discourse, and mentioned the extreme/limiting case. Which is a pretty common rhetorical/literary device, i.e. to say that "X happens, even going so far as extreme-case Y". Well, no. Its mentioned as the extreme/limiting case. So its not implying (much less outright drawing) such an equivalence, its saying its the extreme/maximal scenario of the phenomenon in question. And logically speaking, saying X is an extreme case of Y is to deny an equivalence, since that's what it means to be an "extreme" or limiting case. You guys are trying to drum up outrage/a sense of victimhood over something that didn't actually happen.
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:55:02 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Mar 7, 2022 23:56:46 GMT
Though why even bring up the mention of murderers and bigots at all if the whole point of the article is about the show? Because they were making the point that Tolkien's work has often been the subject of (or vehicle for) ideological/cultural conflict or discourse, and mentioned the extreme/limiting case. Which is a pretty common rhetorical/literary device, i.e. to say that "X happens, even going so far as extreme-case Y". Well, no. Its mentioned as the extreme/limiting case. So its not implying (much less outright drawing) such an equivalence, its saying its the extreme/maximal scenario of the phenomenon in question. And logically speaking, saying X is an extreme case of Y is to deny an equivalence, since that's what it means to be an "extreme" or limiting case. You guys are trying to drum up outrage/a sense of victimhood over something that didn't actually happen. “Some people drunk drive and wind up killing others. If you’re a driver of a car then you could be a drunk driver and should be avoided and/or apprehended before you hurt someone. After all some drivers do wind up driving drunk.” That’s the same logic the author was using.
|
|
inherit
331
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:12:04 GMT
5,933
q5tyhj
gettin' Dingy with it
2,041
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Mar 8, 2022 22:11:56 GMT
Because they were making the point that Tolkien's work has often been the subject of (or vehicle for) ideological/cultural conflict or discourse, and mentioned the extreme/limiting case. Which is a pretty common rhetorical/literary device, i.e. to say that "X happens, even going so far as extreme-case Y". Well, no. Its mentioned as the extreme/limiting case. So its not implying (much less outright drawing) such an equivalence, its saying its the extreme/maximal scenario of the phenomenon in question. And logically speaking, saying X is an extreme case of Y is to deny an equivalence, since that's what it means to be an "extreme" or limiting case. You guys are trying to drum up outrage/a sense of victimhood over something that didn't actually happen. “Some people drunk drive and wind up killing others. If you’re a driver of a car then you could be a drunk driver and should be avoided and/or apprehended before you hurt someone. After all some drivers do wind up driving drunk.” That’s the same logic the author was using. Well, no, not really, but hey, at least you tried, right?
|
|
inherit
331
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:12:04 GMT
5,933
q5tyhj
gettin' Dingy with it
2,041
August 2016
q5tyhj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
q5tyhj
|
Post by q5tyhj on Mar 9, 2022 0:18:49 GMT
(though I'm sure that if you keep desperately throwing shit at the wall until something sticks, you'll find something to be outraged about eventually... but then, what's the point? Manufacturing outrage and victimhood purely for the sake of feeling like a victim?)
|
|
mousestalker
Inactive Moderator
ღ The Untitled
Just here for the cosplay
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Mousestalker
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 12,116 Likes: 30,348
inherit
ღ The Untitled
72
0
1
Jan 31, 2024 11:38:50 GMT
30,348
mousestalker
Just here for the cosplay
12,116
August 2016
mousestalker
Mousestalker
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by mousestalker on Mar 9, 2022 3:48:05 GMT
At no point did Tolkien ever use the word shit.
That word only appears in 'Bored of the Rings'.
We seem to be getting off topic.
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:18:49 GMT
21,880
smilesja
13,721
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Mar 13, 2022 16:30:14 GMT
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,456
Hier0phant
3,816
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Mar 15, 2022 23:54:48 GMT
Not defending the original article, but the piece you've linked here is just hysterical clickbait, bordering on outright misrepresentation: the original DenofGeek article does not compare Rings of Power critics to mass murderers (contrary to the clickbait title), but it does mention that some far-right extremist groups/individuals have co-opted Tolkien's work and mentions a couple of rightwing mass murderers who belonged to this category. Which is, obviously, not the same thing at all. Then why the need to bring these groups up in an article about why "the fandom needs to change"? It's clearly an attempt to draw a parallel between "extreme" fan reaction (as the author sees it) and ACTUAL extremists. Just read the article, and lol Boundingintocomics understated the level of slander the article's writer was lobbing at the fandom. Andrew Blair drew parallels between Tolkien's fandom with white supremacists and fascists who were fans of his work to potential critics of Amazon's show in an effort to strawman any future criticism of the show. www.denofgeek.com/tv/lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-why-fandom-has-to-embrace-change/I lost it when he tried to defend Ghostbusters 2016 with the muh sexism spiel. I saw it for free and felt that the criticisms it received were too light.
|
|
Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
inherit
402
0
Dec 21, 2018 17:35:11 GMT
49,335
Iakus
20,879
August 2016
iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Iakus on Mar 25, 2022 17:26:19 GMT
Amazon is currently having a sale on the Kindle versions of a lot of Tolkien's Middle Earth books. I purchased a copy of The Hobbit and Unfinished Tales for my Kindle (already owned most of the others)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
12213
0
Apr 26, 2024 18:25:16 GMT
Deleted
0
Apr 26, 2024 18:25:16 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2022 0:01:17 GMT
People that write articles like that are the liberal equivalent of conservative single-issue voters.
In short, because X isn't the way they like it, they are victims and anyone who does like it represents Satan.
It's almost like, if you don't take the whole picture into view, you miss a lot of the information.
Makes me want to puke. Clowns to the left of me and jokers to the right. Stuck in the middle with Shelob.
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,456
Hier0phant
3,816
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Mar 29, 2022 3:07:09 GMT
Meh it's a common tactic for shills of upcoming series to stifle legit criticism by poisoning the well like what happened with the Watchmen tv series, a series that Amazon's The Rings of Power already looks superior to (for now). Moore being forced watch his magnum opus being savaged by the capitalist institutions he rails against is true suffering.
|
|
ScumbagShepurd
N3
Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 863 Likes: 1,112
inherit
493
0
1,112
ScumbagShepurd
Shaking spear, trolling OP, burying Brad.
863
August 2016
scumbagshepurd
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by ScumbagShepurd on Apr 28, 2022 19:06:28 GMT
Gandalf is FAR more powerful than any mortal Man. Any constraints on his power are his vow to not use them in direct contention against Sauron or his minions. But given he SOLOED A BALROG, a feat only matched by other Maiar/Valar or the most renowned of Noldor warriors of the First Age, he is a lot more than "a conjurer of cheap tricks" i said somewhere he's a conjuerer of cheap tricks or that he's merely a human? I only said that no matter how powerful in magic he is, he still needs a sword. Because in Tolkien world there's no clear distinction between "classes" D&D-style. You go to war, you grab a sword, it is THAT simple. Any logic a-la "Galadriel is a sorceress so she can't have heavy armor and a sword" reeks of modern RPG experience and is fundamentally flawed and less-truetolkien than any Hollywood logic. Gandalf's also definitely constrained in his mortal body, otherwise he wouldn't throw pinecones at the orcs while sitting on a tree. also, he "soloed" a balrog while dying in the process. had a funny conversation with a friend yesterday about the same thing. He said, "obviously all the Istari are weakened in their wizard form: just look at their nicotine addiction". Yep, Saru boi, Gandi and Raddo are all hopeless pipe weed junkies
|
|
inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Apr 26, 2024 16:18:49 GMT
21,880
smilesja
13,721
August 2016
smilesja
|
Post by smilesja on Apr 29, 2022 2:17:17 GMT
|
|
inherit
1040
0
Apr 25, 2024 23:55:02 GMT
3,228
Vortex13
2,202
Aug 17, 2016 14:31:53 GMT
August 2016
vortex13
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Vortex13 on Jul 15, 2022 23:36:59 GMT
|
|
inherit
113
0
8,456
Hier0phant
3,816
August 2016
hier0phant
|
Post by Hier0phant on Jul 16, 2022 0:40:50 GMT
Of all the potential issues this show might have like the quality of the costumes, 3d effects or legacy characters seeming like OC creations, the dwarven women not having beards hurts the most.
|
|