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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2017 23:18:17 GMT
Err, yes? The only ones who don't fit ALL of that criteria are Cassandra (because she has a square face shape, like many women do.....) and Jack (she has a buzzcut so you can't see much of her hair). There are a couple of aliens who don't have hair but they still have hourglass figures, shiny healthy hair, big eyes... As a guy in Dragon Age 3 you could romance Cassandra (which doesn't fit) and Jospehine (who doesn't fit conventional beauty standards. Pointiness of the jaw, smaller eyes, unarched eyebrows, overall shape of the face.) Leliana didn't fit in Origins, Jack doesn't fit in many ways (and she does not have an hour glass figure - wide bust, narrow waist, wide hips.) We're not talking about shiny healthy hair, just like we're not talking about shiny healthy bodies. The standards of beauty are different to the standards of healthiness, they share qualities yet aren't the same. We can't apply this standard to Bioware though becuase it's well know Bioware doesn't do hair well. While there have been conventionally beautiful women for men to romance in the past, Dragon Age 3 didn't incorporate any. And the percentage of classically beautiful women for men to romance in Bioware games is nowhere near 99%. And this is from someone who doesn't care for romances in the game at all. |
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2017 23:21:34 GMT
Cassandra is strong, but it's very hard to create a character who's a woman that is classically beautiful and strong. This is because a lot of genuine feminine traits (that are considered beautiful) are based in weakness. Thinness for example, reduced muscle mass, few scars, impractical forms of dress. I don't see people want female characters to be everything in a game - pretty, strong, a leader, a mother etc etc. Cassandra's a warrior, why do people get so offended when people question her beauty? *Shrugs* |
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 28, 2017 23:22:14 GMT
Err, yes? The only ones who don't fit ALL of that criteria are Cassandra (because she has a square face shape, like many women do.....) and Jack (she has a buzzcut so you can't see much of her hair). There are a couple of aliens who don't have hair but they still have hourglass figures, shiny healthy hair, big eyes... As a guy in Dragon Age 3 you could romance Cassandra (which doesn't fit) and Jospehine (who doesn't fit conventional beauty standards. Pointiness of the jaw, smaller eyes, unarched eyebrows, overall shape of the face.) Leliana didn't fit in Origins, Jack doesn't fit in many ways (and she does not have an hour glass figure - wide bust, narrow waist, wide hips.) We're not talking about shiny healthy hair, just like we're not talking about shiny healthy bodies. The standards of beauty are different to the standards of healthiness, they share qualities yet aren't the same. We can't apply this standard to Bioware though becuase it's well know Bioware doesn't do hair well. While there have been conventionally beautiful women for men to romance in the past, Dragon Age 3 didn't incorporate any. And the percentage of classically beautiful women for men to romance is nowhere near 99%. And this is from someone who doesn't care for romances in the game at all. Uh... yeah, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree now that insufficiently arched eyebrows have disqualified Josephine from being considered conventionally beautiful. |
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2017 23:25:01 GMT
Uh... yeah, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree now that insufficiently arched eyebrows have disqualified Josephine from being considered conventionally beautiful. A study based in the UK showed "the key differences between “beautiful” and “plain” faces were the same: a more rounded jaw, more arched eyebrows, larger eyes and smaller distances from the tip of the chin to the lower lip, and from the upper lip to the bottom of the nose." Whether you want to rail against that is up to you but that's what men in the UK wanted and considered beautiful. If you don't want men to consider arched eyebrows beautiful feel free to start a crusade |
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 28, 2017 23:36:07 GMT
Uh... yeah, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree now that insufficiently arched eyebrows have disqualified Josephine from being considered conventionally beautiful. A study based in the UK showed "the key differences between “beautiful” and “plain” faces were the same: a more rounded jaw, more arched eyebrows, larger eyes and smaller distances from the tip of the chin to the lower lip, and from the upper lip to the bottom of the nose." Whether you want to rail against that is up to you but that's what men in the UK wanted and considered beautiful. If you don't want men to consider arched eyebrows beautiful feel free to start a crusade Yeeaahh okay, but the thing is that not every female love interest is going to have that exact combination of features, otherwise they'd just be clones of each other. She can be beautiful without meeting every single one of those criteria. Men are free to consider arched eyebrows to be the height of femininity if they want, I just don't think Bioware should start stripping their female characters of, well... character in response. |
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 28, 2017 23:36:12 GMT
I personally thought Josephine was drop dead gorgeous in DAI. Despite that I still found her romance boring. Cassandra who I wouldn't call beautiful, but at the same time I wouldn't call ugly either, just then do for me with her being a religious nutcase. The only thing I want from DA4 as far as romance goes, is a decent looking female companion with an good personality.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Gilli-chan
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Post by Gilli on Dec 28, 2017 23:37:12 GMT
"Fuck makeup" is my comment as a woman. Some women are really, super into it, which is totally fine if that's their thing and they enjoy it, but I despise society's expectation that women wear it. Whenever I create female characters in the CC I typically use as little as possible. As far as the CC, you are right about eye makeup, and I do use it very faintly to give eyes more depth, but that's pretty much it. I never go for the full lipstick, eye shadow, blush appearance. Totally agree. I never wear make-up, it just never interested me. It's a choice and I choose not to wear it. People who want to wear it, that's fine. It shouldn't be expected though. Same. The only time you catch me wear "make-up" is when I'm cosplaying. And as I prefer to cosplay male charas that kind of make up looks mostly like this.   or this  What did you expect?  |
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2017 23:46:12 GMT
Yeeaahh okay, but the thing is that not every female love interest is going to have that exact combination of features, otherwise they'd just be clones of each other. She can be beautiful without meeting every single one of those criteria. Men are free to consider arched eyebrows to be the height of femininity if they want, I just don't think Bioware should start stripping their female characters of, well... character in response. Jospehine doesn't have many of them. You just keep saying she's beautiful without actually addressing the issues. Her hair is nothing special, the shape of her face is wrong, the length of her chin is wrong, unarched eyebrows. I agree with you though that Bioware shouldn't be stripping female characters of character to achieve beauty, because that's what beauty is - stripping people of character to achieve a societal consensus. I find romances boring in games and would think Bioware should focus on more interesting characters. Take Cassandra for example, she's a warrior. This will mean she is the antithesis of a conventionally beautiful woman. Why must we try and make Cassandra beautiful AND a warrior? If people say she's not beautiful, so what? She has other things to worry about, like swinging her sword. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by shechinah on Dec 28, 2017 23:50:58 GMT
I agree with you though that Bioware shouldn't be stripping female characters of character to achieve beauty, because that's what beauty is - stripping people of character to achieve a societal consensus. I find romances boring in games and would think Bioware should focus on more interesting characters. Take Cassandra for example, she's a warrior. This will mean she is the antithesis of a conventionally beautiful woman. Why must we try and make Cassandra beautiful AND a warrior? If people say she's not beautiful, so what? She has other things to worry about, like swinging her sword. Most of the times I see people having a problem with others saying that Cassandra is not beautiful, it is because said others are treating it as a design flaw as in that it's wrong that she's not conventionally attractive like Morrigan. |
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 28, 2017 23:58:06 GMT
Yeeaahh okay, but the thing is that not every female love interest is going to have that exact combination of features, otherwise they'd just be clones of each other. She can be beautiful without meeting every single one of those criteria. Men are free to consider arched eyebrows to be the height of femininity if they want, I just don't think Bioware should start stripping their female characters of, well... character in response. Jospehine doesn't have many of them. You just keep saying she's beautiful without actually addressing the issues. Her hair is nothing special, the shape of her face is wrong, the length of her chin is wrong, unarched eyebrows. I agree with you though that Bioware shouldn't be stripping female characters of character to achieve beauty, because that's what beauty is - stripping people of character to achieve a societal consensus. I find romances boring in games and would think Bioware should focus on more interesting characters. Take Cassandra for example, she's a warrior. This will mean she is the antithesis of a conventionally beautiful woman. Why must we try and make Cassandra beautiful AND a warrior? If people say she's not beautiful, so what? She has other things to worry about, like swinging her sword. I get what you're saying about beauty not being the be-all, end-all of a character. I guess my issue is the idea that there is only one kind of beauty, and anything that deviates from that is automatically unattractive (aka, "ugly, mannish, and lesbian" as per the title of this thread). I think there are tons of attractive women in this series that look nothing alike. Sera, Morrigan, Merrill, Isabela, Josephine, default female Hawke, Vivienne, Calpernia, Harding... I'd smooch them all. As for Josie, I disagree on all those points: her hair looks luxurious and it's in a fancy up-do, the shape of her face is just right, her chin is just right, I've never given a single thought to her eyebrows until you brought it up. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. |
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Post by river82 on Dec 28, 2017 23:59:11 GMT
Most of the times I see people having a problem with others saying that Cassandra is not beautiful, it is because said others are treating it as a design flaw as in that it's wrong that she's not conventionally attractive like Morrigan. Morrigan wasn't a warrior xD. Those people make little sense. Quite a few older RPG fans didn't like Bioware's increasing focus on romances for exactly this reason - huge issues arise out of nothing. So now Bioware has to make sure they have equal representation romances and that there are plenty of options, but not all bi because that's unrealistic, and that these people are beautiful and generally pleasing while still keeping them within their original character which are sometimes aggressively not pleasing. And all of this takes their attention away from other trivial things ... like fixing the combat!!! |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Dec 29, 2017 0:24:26 GMT
Just discovered this thread, oh boy.  I seem to be late to the party but reading the thread title I just feel the need to mention that I was quite happy with all the straight male romances in Origins and Inquisition, they were all diverse and felt real (considering its a game). So unless the next DA game is going to be like DA2 with the completely over the top characters which I.....did not like a lot, I'm sure the romance options will be just fine. That being said, according to many posters here I seem to prefer the very mannish and ugly romance options because I find Cassandra absolutely fantastic, in both appearance and character.  (ironically I find that Cass was actually one of the more feminine characters) |
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Post by river82 on Dec 29, 2017 0:47:17 GMT
I just feel the need to mention that I was quite happy with all the straight male romances in Origins and Inquisition, Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced? |
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vometia
N2
Argh my head
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: vometia
XBL Gamertag: vometia
Posts: 111 Likes: 194
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Post by vometia on Dec 29, 2017 1:00:35 GMT
Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced? I quite liked her. She's obsessed with shoes and therefore awesome. |
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Trebuchet_MkIV
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Dec 29, 2017 1:03:32 GMT
I just feel the need to mention that I was quite happy with all the straight male romances in Origins and Inquisition, Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced?  jk....  |
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Sylvius the Mad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Dec 29, 2017 1:30:14 GMT
you will have to forget about that, as the cancer engine frostbite is not meant for rpg elements and much less for mods. yeah the modding community somehow managed to do something, but compared to other games or just DA2 and DAO, it's a completely shit, the only thing they can do is retextures and replace some things (in this case hair or swap armor models) for anothers, but you are not adding anything new and you are not changing anything really. Hell even you have to deactivate the "mods" in the dlc areas cause the game just crashes or gets an infinite loading screen. so don't expect anything special for next instalments, as they will continue with that engine, and moders will not do much. That won't stop me asking. I would like mods, open exploration, and pausable stat-driven combat. |
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copper
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Posts: 567 Likes: 1,084
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Post by copper on Dec 29, 2017 1:31:05 GMT
I just feel the need to mention that I was quite happy with all the straight male romances in Origins and Inquisition, Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced? I thought she was a little crazy in an endearing sort of way and she doesn't come to my mind if I think of boring characters. Though I admit I probably enjoyed the rest of the Origins crowd more so I tended to overlook her. She has A+ taste in pets though |
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Sylvius the Mad
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Dec 29, 2017 1:33:31 GMT
If BioWare would just make their games moddable, we could alter the appearance of characters as we see fit. This is the real issue. If players disagree about an in-game feature, mods allow customization. I mean, I love DAO and I love DAI, but mods are the reason Skyrim is better than anything BioWare has released since NWN. Moddability = replayability = less potential for cashgrab by EAWare. Witness how Bethesda is scrounging their brains to try and monetize the gazillion mods for Skyrim/SSE. Release a moddable game and sell 30 million copies seems like a sound business model. |
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Sylvius the Mad
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Dec 29, 2017 1:45:05 GMT
I just feel the need to mention that I was quite happy with all the straight male romances in Origins and Inquisition, Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced? I would reserve that label for Fenris or Solas, to be honest. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 1:47:27 GMT
Well, if we go North, we're bound to see lots of half-naked qunari... But generally speaking I think bikini armor is pretty silly. Especially if female characters are the only ones who are expected to wear it.That first picture is all I want. |
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vometia
N2
Argh my head
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: vometia
XBL Gamertag: vometia
Posts: 111 Likes: 194
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Argh my head
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by vometia on Dec 29, 2017 1:52:00 GMT
Wasn't Origins Leliana one of the most boring and devoid-of-personality characters Bioware has ever produced? I would reserve that label for Fenris or Solas, to be honest. ... or Jacob. Poor Jacob, I felt sorry for him being so dull, but he was so dull. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 1:52:36 GMT
Like any red blooded male, I like scantily clad women but not when it comes to venturing in fantasy. Keep it real.   You have excellent tastes sir!! |
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grallon
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire
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Post by grallon on Dec 29, 2017 3:53:15 GMT
Release a moddable game and sell 30 million copies seems like a sound business model. To you and me both. But it's a finite model. Think about EA's loot crates in SW Battlefront II and how the whole game was structured around them - that's the dominant mindset among the suits. And that is also why there were all these useless collectibles reminiscent of MMOs in DAI. Games are no longer conceived as products but rather services, billable at every turn like your utilities. Anthem was designed with that goal in mind, which is why it is being delayed now. Thanks to the uproar surrounding SWBF2 the whole scheme (PTW - in game loot boxes) has blown in their greedy faces and the government is making noises about investigating and regulating so EA (and the others no doubt) are starting to scramble. So if DA4 ever sees light of day don't be surprised if it remains locked down and gated. |
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 29, 2017 4:41:27 GMT
Has Anthem been delayed again? Wonderful. Even longer until DA4  |
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
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House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 29, 2017 4:44:38 GMT
Bioweenie needs to stick with BG, NWN, DA and ME. Anthem looks like another bland space game.
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(ironically I find that Cass was actually one of the more feminine characters)
