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Post by Iddy on Dec 11, 2018 12:06:37 GMT
I haven't started yet, but I think I'll make my Lavellan pretty young. I want the Dalish Warden to be her childhood hero.
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Post by bioticeye on Dec 11, 2018 13:43:07 GMT
My Only was in her late 20s when I first played because that's how old I was too. Holy crap is being in your 30s much better though.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 11, 2018 14:47:11 GMT
I'm actually still on the fence about whether or not sex happened. I don't distinguish my characters as separately as one did and one didn't. From the way Solas kisses Lavellan I'd say sure totally possible but I also distinctly remember the first time I saw the Crestwood scene and my thoughts were, "Well finally they're going to have their fade to black scene. Took them long enough ... wait. Wait, what? He's dumping her? No, no this is wrong he can't be dumping her. Omg he actually just walked away. Dammit BioWare, what is this?!"
Edit: Hit Post too early. Anyway, that scene completely felt to me like "the first time" (for them, not ever) - except that it turned out not to be. So I'm still kind of like maybe they did?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 11, 2018 14:58:33 GMT
I figure that for my Lavellan and Solas, it probably happened at the end of a day of particularly harrowing battles, when one or both were feeling especially mortal and uncertain about the future. So it was a sort of reaction to death and destruction / reaffirmation of life for them.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 11, 2018 15:14:21 GMT
Well, the Crestwood scene would be one with a lot of 'firsts' regardless whether there was sex Though I'd say that they make it fairly clear whether it happened in some options in Crestwood and Trespasser - not because of what Solas said, but because of what Lavellan said. I see that being ignored for some reason in favor of focusing solely on Solas. In Trespasser she explicitly said that... well... and so Dread Wolf did take her, and both make it clear that it's about sex. So... what? She says that he did and he says that they didn't? This is why I figure that this dialogue option is more about him not pretending or lying to her and was with her as Solas and not as the Dread Wolf. 2nd is her angry response in Crestwood - she does ask him to tell her that this was a 'casual dalliance' and I see 'dalliance' used in the franchise to mean casual sex, rather than a casual romantic relationship. Anyway - I'm still on a fence in terms of when I think it may have first happened in my version of events. I'm fluid that way, I don't have my headcanon entirely set in stone ('cuz I'm waiting for that damn conclusion!). One of the potential scenarios is them letting their guard down when either least expected it, the other: Solas was brooding and she did something particularly meaningful to restore some of his hope and think that maybe he'd be able to find a different solution - and he only really lost that hope when he comes to certain realizations in Crestwood.
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Post by Solas on Dec 11, 2018 17:43:01 GMT
some assorted thoughts on the trailer now that I'm over the !!!!!!!!!!! and the DDDDDDDD: (well, mostly just the mural), lol. its cool if you disagree or think something else, I'm just guessing from how I interpret it;
- This is a look into the future, not the past. In DA:I, the rotunda frescos he created mostly depicted the present, the story of the Inquisition as it unfolded at the time. in Trespasser, the murals seem to tell the story of what happened in the past. the teaser mural is a look forward, into what Solas plans to try and do, or will be doing i.e. events that will unfold in DA4 as we play it (or occur before the game begins, between 9:44 Dragon and that timepoint). it’s Sandal’s prophecy, it’s the future Eleni Zinovia worried about, it’s the eclipse as Fen’Harel stirs, it’s the whisperings of the Ardent Blossom faerie, it’s the giant from Mercy for the Elves rising. here is the world burning in the raw chaos
- the figure on the left is Solas, not Elgar’nan, Falon’din, another Evanuris, the hypothetical DA4 PC, the Inquisitor, etc. my first feeling when I saw it was Solas and after the artist confirmed the figure is bald i.e. it’s not hair or a helmet, well then. indeed other ancient elves and Evanuris have been depicted as bald elsewhere, but it still reads to me as Solas.
- I can’t view the mural through a Solavellan lens. and tbh nor do I care to. everything in it has to be applicable to all Solases, all Inquisitors, all worldstates - Solases who fell in love, Solases who became friends with and respected the Inquisitor, Solases who hated the Inquisitor, Solases who witnessed the Inquisitor vow to stop him at all costs, Solases who saw his old friend promise to try and redeem him and stay his hand. to Solases who are swithering and to Solases who are set.
- I don’t read it as Solas opposing himself, opposing the Dread Wolf, fighting with himself or protecting the tree and/or contents in the spheres from the wolf. yes he is conflicted and has more than one identity, and yes ancient elf-spirit connections & Wisdom vs Pride - spirits vs demons. definitely. I just, see both of them encroaching ominously on the spheres, one from either side, a consuming pincer, both red-eyed like red lyrium and corruption, both amidst fire, linked (mirrored). not in this freezeframe, (Edit i forgot to link to it) but in the teaser, tendrils of darkness emit from both of them and crack into the spheres.
- love the connections people raised between the tree and the Twisted Tree in the Emerald Graves, Mythal, Arlathan Forest in the present, the elven homeland itself in the past, elves in general. the first thing I personally thought of when I saw the tree is bana’vhenadahl, hesitantly translated (hesitantly, by the in-universe person who translated it) as the “ruined tree of the People” from Where Willows Wail. I think about the flames around the tree and about its ruined twisted state and I feel worried. ironically, bana’vhenadahl is my Inquistor’s greatest fear. Dalish father roams, will the Dalish son survive the fight? :’(
- 7 Evanuris (sans Mythal and Fen’Harel) sealed somewhere in the Fade - 7 foci (titan hearts - in each semicircle is half of the symbol of a titan’s heart in the Death of a Titan mural). 7 semicircles here, 7 pairs of 2 spheres in one of the Trespasser murals, 7 old gods, 7 gates to the Black City, 2 hemispheres still golden, 2 uncorrupted slumbering old gods. no need to repeat what’s already been written
- I don’t think the red lyrium idol is the same idol as the one Hawke found on the expedition unless Certainty was re-re-re-shaped/-born again back into the idol-state (because this would be the fourth time, having gone idol -> Meredith’s sword -> reborn as the sword Samson wielded -> reborn/shaped again back into the idol-state). I think what’s more important is what the idol represents: A] obvious spreading red lyrium corruption, Blight, titans and their blood and bodies, digging too deeply & all that entails implication-wise:
reborn in arcane energies somehow elven and Tevinter and Blight intertwined
and B] the story/implications the twisted figurines themselves depict (shape-similarity to Andraste iconography, Meredith & Flemeth/Mythal, Mythal’s downfall etc):
We are trapped. The ones born here do not understand the keenness of what we have lost, or why so many of their elders weep as they enter uthenera. The new ones are faithful to Mythal, but do not understand what she was in her fullness. Without the wise to lead them, they will lose what they should have been.
plenty has been written on these subjects already etc. even if I’m not 100% on the elven pantheon = the old gods (idk, its too.. neat), man, the pantheon were definitely dragons of a kind!
what’s in the middle? it’s the City, Black and Eternal - a prison, a cage. it’s the origin of the Blight, the yawning Void, the abyss. it’s the place of nothing, what Sera is so afraid of, banalhan. (“I think something moved inside the mirror - look, don’t you see that? Can you feel that? - I think it knows we’re here - it’s - showing me places. I can see.. some kind of City. underground? and - there’s a great blackness.. it saw me! Help! I can’t look away!”) It’s what my poor darling Tamlen saw, all those years ago.
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Post by squealingpiggies on Dec 11, 2018 19:20:18 GMT
Hey, long time lurker of the Blanket Fort (back when it was on an official forum), first time poster. Through my lurking and reading of copious amounts of fanfiction after all the feels from the Solamance I have seemed to notice two things that really grate with my own headcanon: one, everyone seems to make Lavellan older and more experienced than mine by a long shot and, two, they seem to want to make Lavellan equally as scarred as Solas (like if that’s even possible lol, what can compare to “I killed all that I loved to try to save it”). I imagined my character as a young, bubbly, and naïve little girl who had a bright and shining childhood filled with friends, family and fun. Someone who got her Vallaslin a little early, maybe 13 or 14 for being just that awesome at magic or maybe just being the only mage to study under an aging keeper. I like to view my own headcanon as a coming of age story. She was sent off to the watch the peace talks at about 15 only because the spies needed someone who actually knows about magic but the keeper needs to watch after the clan. And the inquisitior story is her struggles, triumphs and failures. Spoiler for headcannon wall of text spaghetti w/spoilers That’s not to say everything is princess and ponies for her. The pangs of decisions and leadership take a toll on her, and I think that the Solamance really helps bring that out. She is thrust into this position, tries to act as expected of her while still trying following her own morals, and seemingly saves the world while doing it, but there is no reward in the end. Her friends from the clan she left with are killed in explosion. Then I managed to get her whole clan killed, so the only people close to her at all in the end were her confidants in the Inquisition.
Playing the Avvar DLC without Solas was pretty harrowing for my Lavellan. Here she saw herself in Ameridan. Both elves, she think this is how she will be remembered, nothing like how she actually was. Top that off with the romance parallels between them, where if you image Lavellan as Telana, that waiting for Solas will bear no fruits and I found my Levallan getting increasing more hostile. Started flipping people the bird and giving no cares. Honestly, all she could think about was the bald head and she wanted it back.
The best part of this was playing Trespassers as an angry ball of love. By this point, most of her friends had left, being she was particularly close with Sara (bestie), Dorian (bff), and Cassandra (older sister she never had, who became divine). She feels rather lost and alone as all her friends depart to do their own thing (couldn't really handle Joe or Lil, too fancy for her foliage frolicking forays); left with a giant and powerful organization that viewed her more of a demigod than an mortal elf. But once I realized the agent was Solas, I mean it was pretty obvious before you even got to the lyrium mine, all she cared about was Solas, that heart dialogue option “I have to save Solas” was hilarious in one patch (don't remember which) because once said: everyone, not just your party members (popup and all), disproves except Cole, at least as a spirit who greatly approves. Unfortunately, just ran through Trespassers again and it doesn’t do that anymore; it just displays party members.
After delving into all the lore and finding that Elves = Spirits, I realized there was one codex entry that summed up my character, the one about a mage summoning a spirit of love. It was pure at first, but his own desires twisted the spirit's nature. Here my Lavellan is the spirit of love, as I played it as a little goody two-shoes at the start, so everyone ending up adoring her as a little ball of fluff (max relations with everyone!). Solas is the summoner, at first their relationship is pure just as with all the other companions, but their desires to be with one another starts to change not just their relationship, but Lavellan herself (first love an’ all). Solas backs out after he starts to see this, being all dutiful and stuff, but not just his duty as ancient elven god but Lavellan’s as well: her being Inquisitor. Unfortunately, being away only makes the desire stronger and she continues to twist until Trespasser comes. She’s a raging bitch that's getting real angry that everyone else gets their happy ending. I loved telling Solas he lied; the angry response was so satisfying; that look where he feels guilty and stammers out that awful excuse for his actions. But then...face to face and you’re thinking: kiss me ! (can I say that word here?) No, come back; I didn’t mean it! Take me with you; screw the Inquisition. At this point, she has become full desire demon and all she wants is Solas. Then you go and tell everyone to piss off at the council and go chase after Solas, because waiting won't bring anything. I think of it as a beautiful story of star-crossed lovers, especially because Cole is the only one who approves of the romance. Can’t wait to see the conclusion, hope it's just as tragic as the rest of their story. Would love me some more of these feels.
Anyone else play a curious, young, happy-go-lucky Solamancer? It's a great pairing to have the bright and cheery little girl fawning over the dark and brooding egg and his stories full of ancient elves and magic. All she wants is see Solas's smile. I can’t be the only one… As for the topic of bumbing uglies, they did not. It is not that my Lavellan wouldn’t jump on Solas given the chance (re fade kiss), but more that to Solas, she's an innocent child; even though he wants to make sweet, sweet love to that tender flower, he feels he would be taking advantage of her. Nothing against age gaps here, it’s just when one is a super powerful ancient god, everyone seems like a child compared to you.
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Post by uirebhiril on Dec 11, 2018 20:38:24 GMT
I figure the Dalish have a pretty serious life. They might take time for moments of fun here and there, or make the best of whatever holiday they celebrate and enjoy themselves, but they are otherwise focused on staying fed and keeping safe. Even the youngsters would have to do their part and wouldn't have a peaceful and unburdened childhood. It didn't make sense to me to have an overly cheerful and outgoing Lavellan, and being that the role tasked to her was important, I also figured the clan wouldn't send someone inexperienced. So she's middle-aged, has been married, had children, and was one of their best hunters who also had experience dealing with the humans. That's not to say she doesn't have a sense of humor or know how to have fun, but she's very pragmatic. You kind of have to be with all that going on. Even getting together with Solas was sort of a logical thing. They were both clearly interested, both far from home, both lonely, had an understanding... so why not? Whatever came after that point was its own negotiation. I mean, we all know where that ended up, but... My Adaar was the naive one who fawned over Solas. I think she ended up more heartbroken than Lavellan, so that's going to be a fun confrontation if we get to have it.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 11, 2018 21:41:55 GMT
I figure the Dalish have a pretty serious life. They might take time for moments of fun here and there, or make the best of whatever holiday they celebrate and enjoy themselves, but they are otherwise focused on staying fed and keeping safe. Even the youngsters would have to do their part and wouldn't have a peaceful and unburdened childhood. It didn't make sense to me to have an overly cheerful and outgoing Lavellan, and being that the role tasked to her was important, I also figured the clan wouldn't send someone inexperienced. So she's middle-aged, has been married, had children, and was one of their best hunters who also had experience dealing with the humans. That's not to say she doesn't have a sense of humor or know how to have fun, but she's very pragmatic. You kind of have to be with all that going on. Even getting together with Solas was sort of a logical thing. They were both clearly interested, both far from home, both lonely, had an understanding... so why not? Whatever came after that point was its own negotiation. I mean, we all know where that ended up, but... My Adaar was the naive one who fawned over Solas. I think she ended up more heartbroken than Lavellan, so that's going to be a fun confrontation if we get to have it. True, hard to imagine Dalish having an easy life - being a minority within a minority haunted by things like Chevalier or Templar raids, or nobility trying to scapegoat and ultimately destroy them (like it has been done to Lavellan's own clan in Inquisition). And all that in a post-Blight world with the war in Orlais and mage-templar war brewing around them, unprotected by walls or guards or laws; just their own ability to set camps where humans or conflict can't find them. My Lavellan is on the humorous and witty side, but mostly because it was the way she coped with stuff and diffused tension. Her diplomatic streak didn't evolve just because occasionally she had to deal with squabbles in the clan or get away with stealing candies - it was actively used to solve tense situations (frequently with humans) or acquire things the clan sometimes desperately needed. At a time she was sent on the Conclave she had more than a decade of experience of handling things, including exotic tasks, she was literate and less afraid of/open to humans than some of her clansmen. She'd be perfect for the task even aside from all the personal things that pushed her on her journey outside of clan Lavellan. I can see her wit and trying to look at brighter side of life and focusing on the good in a person as a draw for Solas, who's not without humor or hope if one scratches the surface enough. But I think they'd be drawn to one another in many ways due to their similarities - both in character and in circumstances in their life, as well as things that are important to them.
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Post by Julilla on Dec 11, 2018 22:23:13 GMT
I think many Lavellans are older because it makes sense that Solas would be interested in someone with a lot of life experience. I think also, if you're over 35, your ideas about what's important in a partner include having been through trials and difficulties and a working knowledge of how to overcome adversity. I'm not saying your headcanon is wrong, of course-- it really can't be because we all imagine our Lavellans differently. But I think it's for these reasons that many Lavellans are older.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 11, 2018 22:25:13 GMT
My Lavellan was on the young side. Most of my characters are.
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Post by ellawyn on Dec 11, 2018 23:29:56 GMT
Ahh, I missed this. Endless armchair theorizing over The Deep Lore. I just don't get it from other series. Dragon Age Fandom, I just can't quit you it’s Sandal’s prophecy, it’s the future Eleni Zinovia worried about, it’s the eclipse as Fen’Harel stirs, it’s the whisperings of the Ardent Blossom faerie, it’s the giant from Mercy for the Elves rising. here is the world burning in the raw chaos You know, while I agree that Sandal's prophecy is obviously about Solas, I've always wondered about the Blossom faerie and Zinovia. I always figured her prophecy applied to the Blight (Either the one in Origins or just the Blight in general.) I mean, remember, you can only heart that prophecy during the mage origin (Which is in fact the only reason I played the mage origin.) Maybe it's just because I played Origins long before Inquisition was a thing, so in my mind that was already all wrapped up. I don’t read it as Solas opposing himself, opposing the Dread Wolf, fighting with himself or protecting the tree and/or contents in the spheres from the wolf. yes he is conflicted and has more than one identity, and yes ancient elf-spirit connections & Wisdom vs Pride - spirits vs demons. definitely. I just, see both of them encroaching ominously on the spheres, one from either side, a consuming pincer, both red-eyed like red lyrium and corruption, both amidst fire, I can see it either way - that it's Solas opposing himself or Solas closing in on the world from all sides. Which, I think, is maybe the point? If you've got high approval Solas, it's meant to evoke an image of opposition, with two forces fighting against each other over a middle ground. But with low-approval, it's as you say, a pincer closing in on the prey, working in terrible tandem with each other. The piece's composition is carefully made so that it can be read either way, as appropriate to the Solas in your world state. Also I didn't pull the quote, because I don't have much more to say on it, but I am increasingly of the opinion that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, not the Evanuris (Or the Evanuris' physical bodies.) The Forgotten Ones are the only major pantheon that we have yet to account for, and my attempts to map the Evanuris to the Old Gods leave me... a bit confused. Like, okay, Urthemiel's the god of beauty, so maybe that's June. Dumat is silence, so obviously that's Dirthamen. Toth is fire so maybe that's Sylaise? Or Elgar'nan? Uhhhh Andoral's is Slaves so maybe that's Andruil? I mean they sound similar and prey is kinda like slaves. And if Razikale's mystery then that's GOT to be Dirtha - oh no, wait, Dirthamen's already Dumat. Uh, and where's Falon'din, I guess Falon'din is night? Kind of?? ah shit and Ghilan'nain's uh uhhhh UHHHH - It just doesn't shake out very well, to me. Maybe there's some connections there that I'm missing, or maybe I'm just desperate to jam the Forgotten Ones in somewhere because no one else ever seems to! Poor Forgotten Ones. Their name is terribly fitting.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Dec 12, 2018 0:11:46 GMT
Ahh, I missed this. Endless armchair theorizing over The Deep Lore. I just don't get it from other series. Dragon Age Fandom, I just can't quit you it’s Sandal’s prophecy, it’s the future Eleni Zinovia worried about, it’s the eclipse as Fen’Harel stirs, it’s the whisperings of the Ardent Blossom faerie, it’s the giant from Mercy for the Elves rising. here is the world burning in the raw chaos You know, while I agree that Sandal's prophecy is obviously about Solas, I've always wondered about the Blossom faerie and Zinovia. I always figured her prophecy applied to the Blight (Either the one in Origins or just the Blight in general.) I mean, remember, you can only heart that prophecy during the mage origin (Which is in fact the only reason I played the mage origin.) Maybe it's just because I played Origins long before Inquisition was a thing, so in my mind that was already all wrapped up. I don’t read it as Solas opposing himself, opposing the Dread Wolf, fighting with himself or protecting the tree and/or contents in the spheres from the wolf. yes he is conflicted and has more than one identity, and yes ancient elf-spirit connections & Wisdom vs Pride - spirits vs demons. definitely. I just, see both of them encroaching ominously on the spheres, one from either side, a consuming pincer, both red-eyed like red lyrium and corruption, both amidst fire, I can see it either way - that it's Solas opposing himself or Solas closing in on the world from all sides. Which, I think, is maybe the point? If you've got high approval Solas, it's meant to evoke an image of opposition, with two forces fighting against each other over a middle ground. But with low-approval, it's as you say, a pincer closing in on the prey, working in terrible tandem with each other. The piece's composition is carefully made so that it can be read either way, as appropriate to the Solas in your world state. Also I didn't pull the quote, because I don't have much more to say on it, but I am increasingly of the opinion that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, not the Evanuris (Or the Evanuris' physical bodies.) The Forgotten Ones are the only major pantheon that we have yet to account for, and my attempts to map the Evanuris to the Old Gods leave me... a bit confused. Like, okay, Urthemiel's the god of beauty, so maybe that's June. Dumat is silence, so obviously that's Dirthamen. Toth is fire so maybe that's Sylaise? Or Elgar'nan? Uhhhh Andoral's is Slaves so maybe that's Andruil? I mean they sound similar and prey is kinda like slaves. And if Razikale's mystery then that's GOT to be Dirtha - oh no, wait, Dirthamen's already Dumat. Uh, and where's Falon'din, I guess Falon'din is night? Kind of?? ah shit and Ghilan'nain's uh uhhhh UHHHH - It just doesn't shake out very well, to me. Maybe there's some connections there that I'm missing, or maybe I'm just desperate to jam the Forgotten Ones in somewhere because no one else ever seems to! Poor Forgotten Ones. Their name is terribly fitting. I'm guessing the Forgotten ones are gonna be the next players we're really introduced to in all this. Wish we'd had an opportunity to ask Solas about the specifics on the Forgotten ones in our cliffside conversation in Trespasser. After all, he sealed them away in the "Abyss", supposedly. Though I suppose if they really are the dragons who become archdemons, he likely wouldn't actually tell us much.
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Post by squealingpiggies on Dec 12, 2018 6:05:35 GMT
I figure the Dalish have a pretty serious life. True, hard to imagine Dalish having an easy life Well, I may have sold the fluff a bit too hard. I mean doesn't everyone have a shit life in Dragon Age, grimderp and all? Like yeah, elves are a minority and it sucks being a small migraterie Dalish tribe but doesn't it also suck to be some human peasant? Yeah you ain't some city dwelling elf servant forced to live in the alienage, but your still just a servant or a cobbler, that also probably lives in the slums, and any old guard can come up and trash your life, or kill you. You think being a noble is better? Well in Orlais, everyone is playing some Game that only ends in death. You can't even opt out and live a peaceful life because someone more powerful will come over and assassinate you just so they can set up another friendly pawn using your title. Fereldan is much more brutal; nobles will just invade each others' castles without pretext and slaughter noble families (origin, human noble). I think the world sucks for everyone. But you can be guarded from those a bit can't you? Like doesn't everyone try to coddle their kids? What if someone were a tad more successful and nothing too traumatic happened? I mean, to a small child, hunting rabbits to help feed the tribe is definitely fun (at least if you catch one) and so is grooming the Halla. All children love a good story around the campfire, so learning the ancient stories would be fascinating. And who doesn't love to play with magic? That's the kind of childhood I mean. One that just didn't have anything terrible happen, like worst is you have to be rescued from a pack of hungry wolves or hiding, successfully, from a templar hunting apostates, maybe you could consider her sheltered, for the setting, maybe I'm just drawing some parallels between my Lavellan and Merrill, both idealistic and naïve; like some clans' Firsts tend to be a bit sheltered by the clan for being so important to their survival and future. I mean it seems like the Lavellan Clan had better relations with humans than most Dalish, so it's not too far of a stretch to assume she had a relatively normal and well-adjusted, for the setting, rearing, is it? I mean most Lavellans probably had very little contact with humans in the first place considering how insular Dalish clans can be, like only the keeper speaking with shem. I could easily imagine that a First would not be allowed to interact with outsiders without the Keeper present. Solas would be interested in someone with a lot of life experience I can feel that; Solas is definitely an experienced individual and could see people wanting to try to match that but I don't think anyone could, except for another ancient elf. What I liked about having the young and innocent contrast is that Solas can possibly realize he's too wrapped up in himself and his past. He has forgotten about the new and the all the wonder it can bring, until my Lavellan shows up. He admits that he didn't see you as a person at first, but when he falls in love, it changes everything and he begins to open up to the world around him. Maybe he even thinks: "If someone so bright and elfy can still be created in the sundered world, what else can it bring?" Or at least that's the hope. My Lavellan was on the young side Now I no longer feel alone!
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Post by uirebhiril on Dec 12, 2018 13:56:23 GMT
Well, I may have sold the fluff a bit too hard. I mean doesn't everyone have a shit life in Dragon Age, grimderp and all? Like yeah, elves are a minority and it sucks being a small migraterie Dalish tribe but doesn't it also suck to be some human peasant?
It's probably none of it easy, no, but I was replying to the conversation of the Inquisitor and their age rather than a direct response to your post. I can see how it maybe came across as discounting your own Lavellan canon, which wasn't my intent. There's no wrong Inquisitor. It's just how I made mine, and why I chose her to be that way. My Mahariel was fairly young, because that also worked best for her story. And my Dorian romancing elf was also younger, mid-20s, and a bit more on the reckless side. He got the job done, at least. ...Mostly.
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Post by Auirel on Dec 12, 2018 14:17:59 GMT
Ahh, I missed this. Endless armchair theorizing over The Deep Lore. I just don't get it from other series. Dragon Age Fandom, I just can't quit you You know, while I agree that Sandal's prophecy is obviously about Solas, I've always wondered about the Blossom faerie and Zinovia. I always figured her prophecy applied to the Blight (Either the one in Origins or just the Blight in general.) I mean, remember, you can only heart that prophecy during the mage origin (Which is in fact the only reason I played the mage origin.) Maybe it's just because I played Origins long before Inquisition was a thing, so in my mind that was already all wrapped up. I can see it either way - that it's Solas opposing himself or Solas closing in on the world from all sides. Which, I think, is maybe the point? If you've got high approval Solas, it's meant to evoke an image of opposition, with two forces fighting against each other over a middle ground. But with low-approval, it's as you say, a pincer closing in on the prey, working in terrible tandem with each other. The piece's composition is carefully made so that it can be read either way, as appropriate to the Solas in your world state. Also I didn't pull the quote, because I don't have much more to say on it, but I am increasingly of the opinion that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones, not the Evanuris (Or the Evanuris' physical bodies.) The Forgotten Ones are the only major pantheon that we have yet to account for, and my attempts to map the Evanuris to the Old Gods leave me... a bit confused. Like, okay, Urthemiel's the god of beauty, so maybe that's June. Dumat is silence, so obviously that's Dirthamen. Toth is fire so maybe that's Sylaise? Or Elgar'nan? Uhhhh Andoral's is Slaves so maybe that's Andruil? I mean they sound similar and prey is kinda like slaves. And if Razikale's mystery then that's GOT to be Dirtha - oh no, wait, Dirthamen's already Dumat. Uh, and where's Falon'din, I guess Falon'din is night? Kind of?? ah shit and Ghilan'nain's uh uhhhh UHHHH - It just doesn't shake out very well, to me. Maybe there's some connections there that I'm missing, or maybe I'm just desperate to jam the Forgotten Ones in somewhere because no one else ever seems to! Poor Forgotten Ones. Their name is terribly fitting. I'm guessing the Forgotten ones are gonna be the next players we're really introduced to in all this. Wish we'd had an opportunity to ask Solas about the specifics on the Forgotten ones in our cliffside conversation in Trespasser. After all, he sealed them away in the "Abyss", supposedly. Though I suppose if they really are the dragons who become archdemons, he likely wouldn't actually tell us much. I always found Solas not mentioning the Forgotten Ones at all to be very suspicious. The Forgotten Ones were clearly a thing (and probably opposed the Evanuris in that big war that Solas mentions), but they could really be anything from idealistic revolutionaries corrupted by Evanuris propaganda all the way to mad bloodthirsty tyrants who reviled in chaos and death, and everything in between. Okay so thats reaching a little, I doubt they were idealistic or anything like that, but we really don't know anything about them. And they were important, why else would they placed as direct competitors with the Evanuris. I also keep thinking about these two codex entries, one from the Temple of Mythal, and the other from the Deep Roads, and what the vines, spheres and ball of fire are supposed to mean. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Old_Elven_Writing Codex text<o:p></o:p> This elven writing found in the Arbor Wilds is so old as to be incomprehensible.<o:p></o:p> There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.<o:p></o:p> "In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing." <o:p></o:p> For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Veilfire_Runes_in_the_Deep_Roads
Codex text<o:p></o:p> In the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:<o:p></o:p> "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"<o:p></o:p> For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. <o:p></o:p> The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.<o:p></o:p> A voice whispers:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
Considering both codexes are largely talking about the same event, and how both of the vivid images talk about spheres and flowers/vines, I think there is a strong connection, but I can't quite figure it out yet.<o:p></o:p>
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Post by Sifr on Dec 12, 2018 14:40:20 GMT
I can feel that; Solas is definitely an experienced individual and could see people wanting to try to match that but I don't think anyone could, except for another ancient elf. What I liked about having the young and innocent contrast is that Solas can possibly realize he's too wrapped up in himself and his past. He has forgotten about the new and the all the wonder it can bring, until my Lavellan shows up. He admits that he didn't see you as a person at first, but when he falls in love, it changes everything and he begins to open up to the world around him. Maybe he even thinks: "If someone so bright and elfy can still be created in the sundered world, what else can it bring?" Or at least that's the hope. Well said! That's what I like about having a younger Lavellan (early twenties), as her youthful, wide-eyed, perspective stands in stark contrast to Solas' ancient, world-weary, attitude.
Until joining the Inquisition, he'd only ever viewed modern Thedas as a mistake borne from carelessness when he created the Veil and it's denizens as mere shadows of what they were. But his time with Lavellan and the Inquisition allowed him to finally see and appreciate this strange new world (and the people who dwell within in) for the first time, as well as start to question whether he should sacrifice them to restore what was?
Before, he would have sacrifice the world without backwards glance, but that was when he was alone and had nothing to lose. Now he's developed close friendships and even relationships with people he's putting on the chopping block, he's finding that going through with his plans have become harder than he thought.
After all, in Trespasser it would have been easier to let the Qunari wipe out Exalted Council, the inquisition and any other political leader in southern who could still conceivably thwart his plans, but he couldn't help but get involved. Maybe his plans would have been harder to implement with the Qunari invading the South, maybe not, but even the Inquisitor questions why he even cares about stopping the Qunari when he's planning to end the world in a few years anyway?
I think that it was more about protecting his friends in the Inquisition and the Inquisitor, even if he pretends that it wasn't. And because on some level he's torn about what he must do, so he'd rather keep the Inquisition around because they are the only ones he'd be willing to let stop him (or convince him to find another way), since they've earned his respect.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 12, 2018 14:50:36 GMT
I'm guessing the Forgotten ones are gonna be the next players we're really introduced to in all this. Wish we'd had an opportunity to ask Solas about the specifics on the Forgotten ones in our cliffside conversation in Trespasser. After all, he sealed them away in the "Abyss", supposedly. Though I suppose if they really are the dragons who become archdemons, he likely wouldn't actually tell us much. I always found Solas not mentioning the Forgotten Ones at all to be very suspicious. The Forgotten Ones were clearly a thing (and probably opposed the Evanuris in that big war that Solas mentions), but they could really be anything from idealistic revolutionaries corrupted by Evanuris propaganda all the way to mad bloodthirsty tyrants who reviled in chaos and death, and everything in between. Okay so thats reaching a little, I doubt they were idealistic or anything like that, but we really don't know anything about them. And they were important, why else would they placed as direct competitors with the Evanuris. I also keep thinking about these two codex entries, one from the Temple of Mythal, and the other from the Deep Roads, and what the vines, spheres and ball of fire are supposed to mean. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Old_Elven_Writing Codex text<o:p></o:p> This elven writing found in the Arbor Wilds is so old as to be incomprehensible.<o:p></o:p> There are whispers from the Well of Sorrows. It's impossible to understand the entire text, but certain parts suddenly reveal a shadow of their original meaning.<o:p></o:p> "In this place we prepare to hunt the pillars of the earth. Their workers scurry, witless, soulless. This death will be a mercy. We will make the earth blossom with their passing." <o:p></o:p> For one moment there is a vivid image of two overlapping spheres; unknown flowers bloom inside their centers. Then it fades.
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Veilfire_Runes_in_the_Deep_Roads
Codex text<o:p></o:p> In the light of the veilfire, the runes seem to shift, coiling and uncoiling like snakes. A thunderous voice shatters the stillness, shouting:<o:p></o:p> "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"<o:p></o:p> For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. <o:p></o:p> The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast.<o:p></o:p> A voice whispers:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
"What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
Considering both codexes are largely talking about the same event, and how both of the vivid images talk about spheres and flowers/vines, I think there is a strong connection, but I can't quite figure it out yet.<o:p></o:p> There's also this from the Frostback Basin: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Geldauran%27s_ClaimSo I'm thinking the whole "Forgotten Ones" was likely Evanuris propaganda, like the whole Dread Wolf name. The Forgotten Ones likely refused to see the Evanuris as gods or bow down to them.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Dec 12, 2018 14:55:06 GMT
I have sometimes considered that the Forgotten Ones may be the Titans. These codex entries speaking of the "Pillars of the Earth" and their witless, soulless slaves are often considered by fans to be about the Titans and the dwarves. Then, we have the whole The Descent DLC in which we find out about Titans. Very few dwarves know they exist, because those memories had apparently been erased by the Shaperate (this is what Valta thinks, anyway). Very few dwarves (maybe only Valta) and no one on the surface knew about Titans? Seems like they had been pretty well forgotten, to me.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 12, 2018 15:08:10 GMT
I have sometimes considered that the Forgotten Ones may be the Titans. These codex entries speaking of the "Pillars of the Earth" and their witless, soulless slaves are often considered by fans to be about the Titans and the dwarves. Then, we have the whole The Descent DLC in which we find out about Titans. Very few dwarves know they exist, because those memories had apparently been erased by the Shaperate (this is what Valta thinks, anyway). Very few dwarves (maybe only Valta) and no one on the surface knew about Titans? Seems like they had been pretty well forgotten, to me. Given the codex from the Frostback Basin, Geldauran at least seems to be an elf.
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Post by Sifr on Dec 12, 2018 16:59:34 GMT
Could the Forgotten Ones may have been part of Solas' rebellion?
Perhaps they were his lieutenants and the Evanuris decreed damnatio memoriae on them, hoping it would stir resentment in the ranks because unlike their leader, they weren't infamous enough that their names and legacy could survive the public erasure?
Or if they were instead the opposing side that the Evanuris fought against in their civil war, whether any of them survived and later took up with Solas' rebellion, since they now had a common enemy? That would have given rise to the legend that both the "Creators" and Forgotten Ones both considered the Dread Wolf to be one of them.
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Post by Elessara on Dec 12, 2018 17:38:13 GMT
Could the Forgotten Ones may have been part of Solas' rebellion? Perhaps they were his lieutenants and the Evanuris decreed damnatio memoriae on them, hoping it would stir resentment in the ranks because unlike their leader, they weren't infamous enough that their names and legacy could survive the public erasure? Or if they were instead the opposing side that the Evanuris fought against in their civil war, whether any of them survived and later took up with Solas' rebellion, since they now had a common enemy? That would have given rise to the legend that both the "Creators" and Forgotten Ones both considered the Dread Wolf to be one of them. If the story Felassan tells about Andruil, Anaris, and Solas is accurate then at least Anaris and Solas do not appear to be particularly friendly. I'm more inclined to give credence to the stories from Felassan but we still don't know how accurate the story is.
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Post by Solas on Dec 12, 2018 17:45:42 GMT
DA4 predictions prayers: Felassan is the true prophet, and he comes back from the dead and saves us all
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Post by uirebhiril on Dec 12, 2018 18:00:00 GMT
Or Felassan will be the true villain, reborn of Elgar'nan. We'll expect a proper romance with him, of course.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 12, 2018 18:10:15 GMT
It always struck me that we went from having two groups of gods that the Dalish referred to as the Creators and the Forgotten Ones, to an unspecified group known as the Evanuris (leaders). It could well have been that the Forgotten Ones originally were part of the group of generals that led the elves against the unspecified (but probably Titans) enemy that Solas says started their rise to power. However, clearly at some point they fell out because we have the later tale of Andruil hunting them in the Void, plus of course Gelduran denying the godhood of the Creators the same as Solas does.
Felassan's story seems to back up the Dalish idea that Solas was loyal to neither group and ultimately betrayed them both. As his stories seem more likely symbolic, designed to teach Briala essential truths about leadership and rebellion, the important part of the story concerning Andruil and Anaris was that whilst their attention was focussed on one another in their fight, with Solas giving each side "help" against the other, and then wounded to such an extent that they slept, Fen'Harel was able to free himself of them both. We should remember Cole's words: "They sleep, masked in a mirror, hiding, hurting, and to wake them... (gasps) Where did it go?" If this is about the Evanuris that Solas trapped somewhere, then it fits the symbolism of Felassan's story.
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