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Post by Elessara on Aug 14, 2016 5:07:13 GMT
A bit more busy? We're at 45 pages and the thread was created 10 days ago. I mean, I know we have a ways to catch up to 6100+ pages but I think we've been going at a respectable pace ;D LOL! Hey now I've seen how it can be close to 100 pages in 2 or 3 days on the last one. I just assumed not everyone knew about the new thread here. We'd gotten a bit slower in the old thread as well but I'm sure things will pick up when they eventually *sigh* announce DA4.
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Post by midnight tea on Aug 14, 2016 5:29:46 GMT
LOL! Hey now I've seen how it can be close to 100 pages in 2 or 3 days on the last one. I just assumed not everyone knew about the new thread here. We'd gotten a bit slower in the old thread as well but I'm sure things will pick up when they eventually *sigh* announce DA4. I think the first 10 pages after DA4 annoucements would simply be filled with "OMGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!"
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 14, 2016 7:16:12 GMT
I made it here... later than everyone else, and I lost my avatar along the way, but I made it. Solely because of this thread, as I remember all the wonderful talks people had there.
It's small now, but here's the hope it will grow to be just as big and interesting as the old one.
Have a nice day, everyone!
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Post by CapricornSun on Aug 14, 2016 7:38:22 GMT
Thank you! I like your avatar btw, you really improved Thank you Shari'El ! I thought my Lavellan needed a little break so I decided to use my D&D wood elf ranger as my new avatar. (She's my latest apple of my eye! )
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Post by CapricornSun on Aug 14, 2016 7:43:35 GMT
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Post by Shari'El on Aug 14, 2016 7:53:11 GMT
So I just read this and thought of stuff. VERY long post ahead: Flemeth told Morrigan that a soul is not forced upon the unwilling but it's only half true, a spirit or a demon can meld/possess someone who is too weak to resist - either dying or mentally broken, or maybe just too young (i.e Cole [dying] Wynne [dying], and Evangeline [dead] all three possessed by benevolent spirits as well as pretty much every person who got possessed by a demon). That made me think about the archdemons and why Gray Wardens are the only one capable of killing them, if an archdemon is killed it body-jumps to the closest tainted being around (which makes sense if you think about it since the taint connects minds), if it wasn't killed by a GW it jumps into a darkspawn and recreates itself with its' flesh, if it's killed by a GW it jumps into their body and they both die. I believe the reason for that is that two strong souls cannot co-exist in one body unless they have an agreement, so once the archdemons' soul jumps into the body of the killing GW their souls fight for domination over the body and end up eliminating each other. That's why the Dark Ritual works, Kieran is conceived some time before the fight with the archdemon, I'm guessing that by that point his spirit was created/a spirit gets attached to him but it's too young, Kieran had no will, his spirit was as weak as a wisp. The Dark Ritual is obviously done with a GW because they carry the taint, that mark is passed to the child and (with the use of some magic to amplify the 'signal' (I'm guessing)) the soul of the archdemon jumps to the body of the child, since its' spirit is too weak to resist - they meld. Kieran doesn't mutate because he either isn't truly tainted or that his soul was cleansed by the blood magic, the blood magic in action was probably responsible for cleansing the Old God soul as well (which I must say, didn't seem like a bad guy, that's partially why I doubt the dragons are the Evanuris). This raises a few questions/ideas: 1. Why would the OG soul come so willingly to Flemeth? If a soul can't be forced upon the unwilling/weak, I'm guessing it's the other way around too, you can't take a soul that isn't willing or is too strong to resist. I think that would suggest the OG knew Mythal, perhaps an ally? 2. Is part of the reason Solas is upset with the Gray Wardens is that they use the taint to kill off the archdemons instead of using blood magic? Everybody are scared of blood magic but we know Solas isn't and we also know Solas knows stuff he doesn't share, it's obvious he is familiar with the taint, but why? And why is everything about the taint related to blood? Dragon blood is resistant, Titan blood repels, blood magic can destroy taint, GW get the taint by drinking darkspawn blood and darkspawn get freed from the calling by drinking GW blood. Just like from blood, darkspawn can draw magic from taint, so perhaps while blood magic draws on life energy, taint draws on decay/death/illness... nothingness? My first association is the Void. It has been discussed a lot but one of the theories is that the taint spreading is Andruils' fault, she found the Void while hunting the Forgotten Ones in the 'abyss' (if you believe the codex), so where is said Void? This is kind of convoluted but hear me out. I think the Void is a literal abyss, I'm not sure what's there and why it contains the taint, maybe something powerful died down there and its' death created the taint (something primal, perhaps a strong spirit, the Maker, a Titan, whatever). I think the reason the dragons are down there is to keep said tainted entity in check and to repel the taint, after all dragon blood resists (and maybe even heals) the taint and it is KINDA weird there would be dragons underground, they are kings of the sky after all, having them underground is just plain illogical. Lots of pieces are missing (like, who put them there?) but if that's the truth wouldn't having all the archdemons dead release said entity from its' prison in the Void? Maybe that's what Solas is afraid of. Let's say for a second the dragons are the Forgotten Ones, maybe after they clashed with the Evanuris they fled underground and found refuge among the dwarves, some time after the Evanuris decided to wage war on the titans and after killing a titan (or more) they began mining it, going down and down, further towards the Void. One day they happened upon the Forgotten Ones' hideout, Andruil decided to go for a hunt, venturing deeper down until finding the Void. Even though it was said Mythal made Andruil forget that doesn't mean the others didn't want to tap into the power that hid down below. They have awakened the tainted entity and with the titan above dead the taint could be let out. Solas became aware in some manner of the fact dragon blood has power over the blight and so he tricked his brethren, the Forgotten Ones, into massive underground prisons to serve as barriers to the taint in their dragons forms (there is an account from a Legionnaire of the Dead in WoT2 about an archdemon prison and it sounds like some powerful magic was at work, it must be deliberate, why else would they be in magical prison cells?), it does say after all that he sealed away both sides of the conflict, but we only know why he sealed off the Evanuris, not the Forgotten Ones. I'd also say the Calling is not from the OGs/archdemons, something else calls the darkspawn to the dragons, the blighted entity in the Void might be manipulating darkspawn to target the dragons in effort to chip away at the lock on its' massive cell. 3. Side question: what does it all say about darkspawn? Do they have souls/spirits? Well, If they are freed from the calling they become sentient which suggests they do, on the other hand dwarves are sentient but I'm not sure they have souls/spirits (in the DA sense). If they don't have, then it's obvious why it's so easy for an archdemon to take over a darksapwn and If they do have souls then as far as I can tell a tainted soul will accept a stronger tainted soul and will destroy itself in the process, giving the body to the stronger soul, but is that true for all tainted souls? A soul in a tainted body could be forced to accept another soul - like Corypheus did to that GW using mind control, but if the person has control he won't let that happen, and that begs the question - will an 'awakened' darkspawn resist an archdemons' body-jump? TL;DR The dragons (AKA the archdemons and perhaps the Forgotten Ones) are underground on purpose to try and keep the blight that exists in the Void in check (dragon blood fights the taint).
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Aug 14, 2016 9:24:45 GMT
So I just read this and thought of stuff. VERY long post ahead: Flemeth told Morrigan that a soul is not forced upon the unwilling but it's only half true, a spirit or a demon can meld/possess someone who is too weak to resist - either dying or mentally broken, or maybe just too young (i.e Cole [dying] Wynne [dying], and Evangeline [dead] all three possessed by benevolent spirits as well as pretty much every person who got possessed by a demon). That made me think about the archdemons and why Gray Wardens are the only one capable of killing them, if an archdemon is killed it body-jumps to the closest tainted being around (which makes sense if you think about it since the taint connects minds), if it wasn't killed by a GW it jumps into a darkspawn and recreates itself with its' flesh, if it's killed by a GW it jumps into their body and they both die. I believe the reason for that is that two strong souls cannot co-exist in one body unless they have an agreement, so once the archdemons' soul jumps into the body of the killing GW their souls fight for domination over the body and end up eliminating each other. That's why the Dark Ritual works, Kieran is conceived some time before the fight with the archdemon, I'm guessing that by that point his spirit was created/a spirit gets attached to him but it's too young, Kieran had no will, his spirit was as weak as a wisp. The Dark Ritual is obviously done with a GW because they carry the taint, that mark is passed to the child and (with the use of some magic to amplify the 'signal' (I'm guessing)) the soul of the archdemon jumps to the body of the child, since its' spirit is too weak to resist - they meld. Kieran doesn't mutate because he either isn't truly tainted or that his soul was cleansed by the blood magic, the blood magic in action was probably responsible for cleansing the Old God soul as well (which I must say, didn't seem like a bad guy, that's partially why I doubt the dragons are the Evanuris). This raises a few questions/ideas: 1. Why would the OG soul come so willingly to Flemeth? If a soul can't be forced upon the unwilling/weak, I'm guessing it's the other way around too, you can't take a soul that isn't willing or is too strong to resist. I think that would suggest the OG knew Mythal, perhaps an ally? 2. Is part of the reason Solas is upset with the Gray Wardens is that they use the taint to kill off the archdemons instead of using blood magic? Everybody are scared of blood magic but we know Solas isn't and we also know Solas knows stuff he doesn't share, it's obvious he is familiar with the taint, but why? And why is everything about the taint related to blood? Dragon blood is resistant, Titan blood repels, blood magic can destroy taint, GW get the taint by drinking darkspawn blood and darkspawn get freed from the calling by drinking GW blood. Just like from blood, darkspawn can draw magic from taint, so perhaps while blood magic draws on life energy, taint draws on decay/death/illness... nothingness? My first association is the Void. It has been discussed a lot but one of the theories is that the taint spreading is Andruils' fault, she found the Void while hunting the Forgotten Ones in the 'abyss' (if you believe the codex), so where is said Void? This is kind of convoluted but hear me out. I think the Void is a literal abyss, I'm not sure what's there and why it contains the taint, maybe something powerful died down there and its' death created the taint (something primal, perhaps a strong spirit, the Maker, a Titan, whatever). I think the reason the dragons are down there is to keep said tainted entity in check and to repel the taint, after all dragon blood resists (and maybe even heals) the taint and it is KINDA weird there would be dragons underground, they are kings of the sky after all, having them underground is just plain illogical. Lots of pieces are missing (like, who put them there?) but if that's the truth wouldn't having all the archdemons dead release said entity from its' prison in the Void? Maybe that's what Solas is afraid of. Let's say for a second the dragons are the Forgotten Ones, maybe after they clashed with the Evanuris they fled underground and found refuge among the dwarves, some time after the Evanuris decided to wage war on the titans and after killing a titan (or more) they began mining it, going down and down, further towards the Void. One day they happened upon the Forgotten Ones' hideout, Andruil decided to go for a hunt, venturing deeper down until finding the Void. Even though it was said Mythal made Andruil forget that doesn't mean the others didn't want to tap into the power that hid down below. They have awakened the tainted entity and with the titan above dead the taint could be let out. Solas became aware in some manner of the fact dragon blood has power over the blight and so he tricked his brethren, the Forgotten Ones, into massive underground prisons to serve as barriers to the taint in their dragons forms (there is an account from a Legionnaire of the Dead in WoT2 about an archdemon prison and it sounds like some powerful magic was at work, it must be deliberate, why else would they be in magical prison cells?), it does say after all that he sealed away both sides of the conflict, but we only know why he sealed off the Evanuris, not the Forgotten Ones. I'd also say the Calling is not from the OGs/archdemons, something else calls the darkspawn to the dragons, the blighted entity in the Void might be manipulating darkspawn to target the dragons in effort to chip away at the lock on its' massive cell. 3. Side question: what does it all say about darkspawn? Do they have souls/spirits? Well, If they are freed from the calling they become sentient which suggests they do, on the other hand dwarves are sentient but I'm not sure they have souls/spirits (in the DA sense). If they don't have, then it's obvious why it's so easy for an archdemon to take over a darksapwn and If they do have souls then as far as I can tell a tainted soul will accept a stronger tainted soul and will destroy itself in the process, giving the body to the stronger soul, but is that true for all tainted souls? A soul in a tainted body could be forced to accept another soul - like Corypheus did to that GW using mind control, but if the person has control he won't let that happen, and that begs the question - will an 'awakened' darkspawn resist an archdemons' body-jump? TL;DR The dragons (AKA the archdemons and perhaps the Forgotten Ones) are underground on purpose to try and keep the blight that exists in the Void in check (dragon blood fights the taint). This reminded me of another question I had in the game. Why, when a companion (Blackwall? Varric?) says "What's so confusing about endless darkspawn?", does Solas say "A great deal."? There are dwarves in the deep roads, as well as people on the surface near breakthrough points, to be captured by darkspawn. Darkspawn make broodmothers, they make thousands of darkspawn in a spawning cycle, and you have "endless" darkspawn. (I mean, they're not literally endless, I suppose. But I don't think Solas was splitting that particular hair.) What's confusing? What's Solas hinting at?
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Post by Shari'El on Aug 14, 2016 10:24:50 GMT
It was Varric if I recall correctly. Maybe he was referring to the origin of the blight? It is kind of confusing why that thing exists in the first place.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Aug 14, 2016 11:34:54 GMT
So, I know this is off topic, but I am studying for my re-examination and I really love listening to the battle-theme from the fight in Haven... does anyone have it and is willing to share it with me? I find it very motivational (and awesome in general).
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Post by Elessara on Aug 14, 2016 12:02:09 GMT
It was Varric if I recall correctly. Maybe he was referring to the origin of the blight? It is kind of confusing why that thing exists in the first place. It was Varric. The convo begins like this: Solas: I find the fall of the dwarven lands confusing, Varric. Varric: What's so confusing about endless darkspawn? Solas: A great deal, although that is a different matter. Ugh, I've played DAI too much if I can do that from memory. Anyway, from the way the in game history reads you have the magisters entering the Golden City, being turned into darkspawn and sent back and BOOM thousands of darkspawn swarm up from the Deep Roads and the First Blight begins. Where did they all come from? Especially in so short a time. This is what I've always thought Solas was talking about.
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Post by Shari'El on Aug 14, 2016 12:19:57 GMT
It was Varric if I recall correctly. Maybe he was referring to the origin of the blight? It is kind of confusing why that thing exists in the first place. It was Varric. The convo begins like this: Solas: I find the fall of the dwarven lands confusing, Varric. Varric: What's so confusing about endless darkspawn? Solas: A great deal, although that is a different matter. Ugh, I've played DAI too much if I can do that from memory. Anyway, from the way the in game history reads you have the magisters entering the Golden City, being turned into darkspawn and sent back and BOOM thousands of darkspawn swarm up from the Deep Roads and the First Blight begins. Where did they all come from? Especially in so short a time. This is what I've always thought Solas was talking about. The best I can guess is that they were down there, in the Void or somewhere under the deep roads, something created the first darkspawn and the Blight, and a handful of them is enough to kidnap a few female dwarves and turn them into broodmothers. It doesn't say how long passed between the invasion the GC and the First Blight, we only know it was in the same year, a few weeks is enough to create an army. I'm guessing that because the Black City was tainted that the moment it was touched it woke up the other darkspawn who began searching for 'Dumat' (hive-mind and stuff), I'm not even sure the magisters had a hand in that.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 14, 2016 12:39:08 GMT
It was Varric. The convo begins like this: Solas: I find the fall of the dwarven lands confusing, Varric. Varric: What's so confusing about endless darkspawn? Solas: A great deal, although that is a different matter. Ugh, I've played DAI too much if I can do that from memory. Anyway, from the way the in game history reads you have the magisters entering the Golden City, being turned into darkspawn and sent back and BOOM thousands of darkspawn swarm up from the Deep Roads and the First Blight begins. Where did they all come from? Especially in so short a time. This is what I've always thought Solas was talking about. The best I can guess is that they were down there, in the Void or somewhere under the deep roads, something created the first darkspawn and the Blight, and a handful of them is enough to kidnap a few female dwarves and turn them into broodmothers. It doesn't say how long passed between the invasion the GC and the First Blight, we only know it was in the same year, a few weeks is enough to create an army. I'm guessing that because the Black City was tainted that the moment it was touched it woke up the other darkspawn who began searching for 'Dumat' (hive-mind and stuff), I'm not even sure the magisters had a hand in that. If you believe Cory, who doesn't seem to have much reason to lie on this point, the city was already black. I'm also not sure of the gestation period of a broodmother. But we're also talking tens of thousands of darkspawn all appearing at once to overwhelm the dwarves and start the First Blight. If the darkspawn truly didn't exist until after the magisters were sent back then how many hundreds or thousands of females did the magisters have to kidnap (seeing as not all of them will survive the mutation into broodmothers) to create an army that large. Basically we're looking at two scenarios: 1. The darkspawn never existed before the magisters went to the Black City and came back. Therefore somehow the magisters figured out how to make more darkspawn, kidnapped hundreds/thousands of females and turned them into broodmothers, created an army of tens of thousands, found Dumat, corrupted him, started the First Blight ... all within the same year. or 2. The darkspawn already existed and when the magisters went to the Black City and the magisters just took control of them or woke them up. In which case the question of "Where did they first come from?" remains. Either way would be a little confusing. Also, second scenario seems more plausible to me. Also also, broodmothers really squick me out probably because of Hespith. Just talking about them literally (yes, literally IRL) makes me shudder.
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Post by Elessara on Aug 14, 2016 12:44:31 GMT
So, I know this is off topic, but I am studying for my re-examination and I really love listening to the battle-theme from the fight in Haven... does anyone have it and is willing to share it with me? I find it very motivational (and awesome in general). I seriously cannot find this in the official soundtrack. Am I insane? Wait, don't answer that! Can anyone find it? Edit to add: Nevermind, the person who posted that on YouTube says it's not included in the official soundtrack. Why it's not I don't know. That's disappointing.
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Post by Amburu on Aug 14, 2016 14:11:38 GMT
So, I know this is off topic, but I am studying for my re-examination and I really love listening to the battle-theme from the fight in Haven... does anyone have it and is willing to share it with me? I find it very motivational (and awesome in general). I seriously cannot find this in the official soundtrack. Am I insane? Wait, don't answer that! Can anyone find it? Edit to add: Nevermind, the person who posted that on YouTube says it's not included in the official soundtrack. Why it's not I don't know. That's disappointing. I think your best luck would be somewhere in this list HaaaAAaaAaahh so at the end of All new faded for her, when Solas "finally" comes back to Skyhold, we can tell him "The next time you're suffering, don't stay alone" (very literal translation) and he 'd answer "It's been a long time I haven't trusted someone... I'll try to remember, thank you" WELL GREAT JOB REMEMBERING, STUPID EGG GEEZ
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Post by Auirel on Aug 14, 2016 14:36:01 GMT
I'm really hoping that Lavellans can straight up start arguing with Solas like an old married couple as soon as they see each other again. That would feel right to me.
About the First Blight and Black City, well I'm convinced that the Black City was a prison for the darkspawn, and when the magisters broke into it they released it back into Thedas. It doesn't exactly explain why they appeared in the Deep Roads first, or where it first came from though.
I do also wonder which one came first, red lyrium or the Blight. Because the Blight doesn't seem to infect lyrium by itself, you'd think with the amount of lyrium mines the darkspawn must have gone through that someone must have seen it long before Varric rediscovered it.
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 14, 2016 15:30:07 GMT
All this talk of Blight and my current playthrough got me thinking.
I think Solas hints so hard that killing the remaining old gods will not solve the Blights problem... that it's not really a hint and he's just saying it outright. Intriguing, I wonder what "even worse" would mean.
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Post by NightSymphony on Aug 14, 2016 15:38:39 GMT
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 14, 2016 15:43:23 GMT
All this talk of Blight and my current playthrough got me thinking. I think Solas hints so hard that killing the remaining old gods will not solve the Blights problem... that it's not really a hint and he's just saying it outright. Intriguing, I wonder what "even worse" would mean. I always thought that's because with neither an Old God to control them nor their search for a new Old God underground the Darkspawn would just go crazy, overrun the surface and it'd be an endless Blight.
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Fen'Harel Faceman
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Post by Fen'Harel Faceman on Aug 14, 2016 16:02:29 GMT
All this talk of Blight and my current playthrough got me thinking. I think Solas hints so hard that killing the remaining old gods will not solve the Blights problem... that it's not really a hint and he's just saying it outright. Intriguing, I wonder what "even worse" would mean. I always thought that's because with neither an Old God to control them nor their search for a new Old God underground the Darkspawn would just go crazy, overrun the surface and it'd be an endless Blight? I might very well be mistaken though. Maybe, but hopefully Bioware has imagined something even more sinister.
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Post by Nimlowyn on Aug 14, 2016 17:03:51 GMT
Solas saying "even worse" makes me think of the WOT2 account of an empty archdemon prison discovered by the Legion of the Dead. Their leader describes a feeling of terror beyond description and dead darkspawn that appeared to have died while praying. This really freaks him out.
If the darkspawn pray to the archdemons...what will they do if they have no more gods to pray to?
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Aug 14, 2016 17:07:18 GMT
2. The darkspawn already existed and when the magisters went to the Black City and the magisters just took control of them or woke them up. In which case the question of "Where did they first come from?" remains. I'll take a crack at this... more tinfoil hats, all! It is strongly hinted that the Qunari were artificially bred using dragons and humanoids. Why? We don't know. My speculation is that there was a war and ancient people (okay, yup I'll lay the blame on the Elvhen/Evanuris, again - geez, they were responsible for everything! ;D ) were trying to breed the most powerful soldiers in order to wipe the floor with their enemies. What if darkspawn were another experiment to breed soldiers? By the same faction or by an opposing faction? Maybe that's what freaked the Elvhen so badly that they tried to bury it in the deep roads. Edited to add: If I really stretch things, I might be tempted to say that Mythal's faction might have created Qunari since she is strongly associated with dragons already, and the other Evanuris might have made the darkspawn, which isn't so far off other people's theories that the Evanuris are responsible for the original Blight, somehow. This might be part of Flemythals' outcry where she says "As I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed!" Also, some of Solas' bitterness towards the Qunari might be related to him having had a hand in their creation as Mythals' friend/servant, and then them squandering their free will etc. by adopting their very rigid-thinking religion.
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Post by Theneras on Aug 14, 2016 17:33:09 GMT
So I just read this and thought of stuff. VERY long post ahead: Flemeth told Morrigan that a soul is not forced upon the unwilling but it's only half true, a spirit or a demon can meld/possess someone who is too weak to resist - either dying or mentally broken, or maybe just too young (i.e Cole [dying] Wynne [dying], and Evangeline [dead] all three possessed by benevolent spirits as well as pretty much every person who got possessed by a demon). That made me think about the archdemons and why Gray Wardens are the only one capable of killing them, if an archdemon is killed it body-jumps to the closest tainted being around (which makes sense if you think about it since the taint connects minds), if it wasn't killed by a GW it jumps into a darkspawn and recreates itself with its' flesh, if it's killed by a GW it jumps into their body and they both die. I believe the reason for that is that two strong souls cannot co-exist in one body unless they have an agreement, so once the archdemons' soul jumps into the body of the killing GW their souls fight for domination over the body and end up eliminating each other. That's why the Dark Ritual works, Kieran is conceived some time before the fight with the archdemon, I'm guessing that by that point his spirit was created/a spirit gets attached to him but it's too young, Kieran had no will, his spirit was as weak as a wisp. The Dark Ritual is obviously done with a GW because they carry the taint, that mark is passed to the child and (with the use of some magic to amplify the 'signal' (I'm guessing)) the soul of the archdemon jumps to the body of the child, since its' spirit is too weak to resist - they meld. Kieran doesn't mutate because he either isn't truly tainted or that his soul was cleansed by the blood magic, the blood magic in action was probably responsible for cleansing the Old God soul as well (which I must say, didn't seem like a bad guy, that's partially why I doubt the dragons are the Evanuris). This raises a few questions/ideas: 1. Why would the OG soul come so willingly to Flemeth? If a soul can't be forced upon the unwilling/weak, I'm guessing it's the other way around too, you can't take a soul that isn't willing or is too strong to resist. I think that would suggest the OG knew Mythal, perhaps an ally? 2. Is part of the reason Solas is upset with the Gray Wardens is that they use the taint to kill off the archdemons instead of using blood magic? Everybody are scared of blood magic but we know Solas isn't and we also know Solas knows stuff he doesn't share, it's obvious he is familiar with the taint, but why? And why is everything about the taint related to blood? Dragon blood is resistant, Titan blood repels, blood magic can destroy taint, GW get the taint by drinking darkspawn blood and darkspawn get freed from the calling by drinking GW blood. Just like from blood, darkspawn can draw magic from taint, so perhaps while blood magic draws on life energy, taint draws on decay/death/illness... nothingness? My first association is the Void. It has been discussed a lot but one of the theories is that the taint spreading is Andruils' fault, she found the Void while hunting the Forgotten Ones in the 'abyss' (if you believe the codex), so where is said Void? This is kind of convoluted but hear me out. I think the Void is a literal abyss, I'm not sure what's there and why it contains the taint, maybe something powerful died down there and its' death created the taint (something primal, perhaps a strong spirit, the Maker, a Titan, whatever). I think the reason the dragons are down there is to keep said tainted entity in check and to repel the taint, after all dragon blood resists (and maybe even heals) the taint and it is KINDA weird there would be dragons underground, they are kings of the sky after all, having them underground is just plain illogical. Lots of pieces are missing (like, who put them there?) but if that's the truth wouldn't having all the archdemons dead release said entity from its' prison in the Void? Maybe that's what Solas is afraid of. Let's say for a second the dragons are the Forgotten Ones, maybe after they clashed with the Evanuris they fled underground and found refuge among the dwarves, some time after the Evanuris decided to wage war on the titans and after killing a titan (or more) they began mining it, going down and down, further towards the Void. One day they happened upon the Forgotten Ones' hideout, Andruil decided to go for a hunt, venturing deeper down until finding the Void. Even though it was said Mythal made Andruil forget that doesn't mean the others didn't want to tap into the power that hid down below. They have awakened the tainted entity and with the titan above dead the taint could be let out. Solas became aware in some manner of the fact dragon blood has power over the blight and so he tricked his brethren, the Forgotten Ones, into massive underground prisons to serve as barriers to the taint in their dragons forms (there is an account from a Legionnaire of the Dead in WoT2 about an archdemon prison and it sounds like some powerful magic was at work, it must be deliberate, why else would they be in magical prison cells?), it does say after all that he sealed away both sides of the conflict, but we only know why he sealed off the Evanuris, not the Forgotten Ones. I'd also say the Calling is not from the OGs/archdemons, something else calls the darkspawn to the dragons, the blighted entity in the Void might be manipulating darkspawn to target the dragons in effort to chip away at the lock on its' massive cell. 3. Side question: what does it all say about darkspawn? Do they have souls/spirits? Well, If they are freed from the calling they become sentient which suggests they do, on the other hand dwarves are sentient but I'm not sure they have souls/spirits (in the DA sense). If they don't have, then it's obvious why it's so easy for an archdemon to take over a darksapwn and If they do have souls then as far as I can tell a tainted soul will accept a stronger tainted soul and will destroy itself in the process, giving the body to the stronger soul, but is that true for all tainted souls? A soul in a tainted body could be forced to accept another soul - like Corypheus did to that GW using mind control, but if the person has control he won't let that happen, and that begs the question - will an 'awakened' darkspawn resist an archdemons' body-jump? TL;DR The dragons (AKA the archdemons and perhaps the Forgotten Ones) are underground on purpose to try and keep the blight that exists in the Void in check (dragon blood fights the taint). Cole wasn't a spirit 'in' a body. He didn't possess the child. He came through the fade and thought he was the ghost of the boy who died. He did get confused as to who he was. Cole was simply a spirit that crossed over physically on his own. He wasn't walking around in the child's body, the boy is still dead in the cell they left him in. It was a place Cole was afraid to go back to. One of the reasons Cole was so messed up in the beginning of the book was that he failed to help save the boy. He didn't know how to help him. Wynne does say she gave permission to the spirit that inhabited her, iirc It was a sort of agreement, she didn't want to die and allowed the spirit to help her. Demons don't just posses a person either, they tempt them, make a deal etc. The only time they may take a body without permission is when it is dead. Even with the Wardens is they had to give permission for the spirits to take them over. They didn't just come through the Fade and possess them. Evangeline might be the exception. I don't recall how that happened, I'd have to reread that section. Demons make an offer that the living can't refuse is the way I see them. They find the one weakness and exploit it. Promise of life, power, etc. Or a favor for a favor and trick them. I think spirits/demons are all about 'helping' whether their intentions are good or for ill depends on the nature of the spirit. The OG soul and archdemon is a curious one, but I think it has to do with the taint. The taint is like a green card for the Archdemon/OG it's already a part of one. Grey Wardens use Archdemon blood as well as Darkspawn blood in the joining. So tainting yourself, or becoming tainted is like an automatic connection to the OG/Archdemon. I find your argument on the Forgotten ones, the taint and Titan compelling. I do think the death of the Titan has a lot of repercussions beyond the ones we are aware of. I still need to play through Decent. I'm missing out on a lot of lore by skipping that DLC.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2016 17:45:13 GMT
^^^^ Yeah, Cole was not possessed. The original Cole's death was so traumatic for Compassion, he took a form similar to Cole's that didn't have mage powers, because that was what Cole wished for the most - that he hadn't been born a mage. It's very important in Cole's whole personal quest that he isn't a possessed body, rather an in-between being who must choose to be fully spirit or human. Also, it has a lot of implications for the larger lore: 1) That spirits can take a fully physical human (or elven) form, by choice 2) That once they are fully physical they most likely cannot go back to being just a spirit 3) That Solas may have once been a spirit, because when dealing with Cole, he seems to understand what Cole is going through in learning about having a physical body, and tells him if he chooses to become fully human that he has "chosen a hard road"
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LliiraAnna
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Post by LliiraAnna on Aug 14, 2016 17:50:56 GMT
2. The darkspawn already existed and when the magisters went to the Black City and the magisters just took control of them or woke them up. In which case the question of "Where did they first come from?" remains. I'll take a crack at this... more tinfoil hats, all! It is strongly hinted that the Qunari were artificially bred using dragons and humanoids. Why? We don't know. My speculation is that there was a war and ancient people (okay, yup I'll lay the blame on the Elvhen/Evanuris, again - geez, they were responsible for everything! ;D ) were trying to breed the most powerful soldiers in order to wipe the floor with their enemies. What if darkspawn were another experiment to breed soldiers? By the same faction or by an opposing faction? Maybe that's what freaked the Elvhen so badly that they tried to bury it in the deep roads. Edited to add: If I really stretch things, I might be tempted to say that Mythal's faction might have created Qunari since she is strongly associated with dragons already, and the other Evanuris might have made the darkspawn, which isn't so far off other people's theories that the Evanuris are responsible for the original Blight, somehow. This might be part of Flemythals' outcry where she says "As I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed!" Also, some of Solas' bitterness towards the Qunari might be related to him having had a hand in their creation as Mythals' friend/servant, and then them squandering their free will etc. by adopting their very rigid-thinking religion. Somehow, I don't feel like the Darkspawn are the elves' creation. Also, I remember there being a theory that the Old Gods are already corrupted - as in, the Darkspawn don't corrupt them, they just find them and let them out. That'd explain how they're able to hear the Old Gods' voices: through the Taint. Which would imply that the (corrupted) Old Gods were here before the Darkspawn. Maybe they were physically bound to the Black City, but when the Magisters entered it, they were able to break free, the Taint started spreading, bam! Darkspawn. Come to think of it, isn't dragon blood Taint-resistant? So maybe the Qunari were an attempt at a Taint-resistant species. Though if they were, it obviously failed.
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Post by ddj on Aug 14, 2016 19:21:08 GMT
I'll take a crack at this... more tinfoil hats, all! It is strongly hinted that the Qunari were artificially bred using dragons and humanoids. Why? We don't know. My speculation is that there was a war and ancient people (okay, yup I'll lay the blame on the Elvhen/Evanuris, again - geez, they were responsible for everything! ;D ) were trying to breed the most powerful soldiers in order to wipe the floor with their enemies. What if darkspawn were another experiment to breed soldiers? By the same faction or by an opposing faction? Maybe that's what freaked the Elvhen so badly that they tried to bury it in the deep roads. Edited to add: If I really stretch things, I might be tempted to say that Mythal's faction might have created Qunari since she is strongly associated with dragons already, and the other Evanuris might have made the darkspawn, which isn't so far off other people's theories that the Evanuris are responsible for the original Blight, somehow. This might be part of Flemythals' outcry where she says "As I was betrayed, as the world was betrayed!" Also, some of Solas' bitterness towards the Qunari might be related to him having had a hand in their creation as Mythals' friend/servant, and then them squandering their free will etc. by adopting their very rigid-thinking religion. Somehow, I don't feel like the Darkspawn are the elves' creation... Also, I remember there being a theory that the Old Gods are already corrupted? As in, the Darkspawn don't corrupt them, they just find them and let them out or something. That'd explain how they're able to hear the Old Gods' voices (through the Taint). Which would imply that the (corrupted) Old Gods were here before the Darkspawn. Maybe they were physically bound to the Black City, but when the Magisters entered it, they were able to break free, the Taint started spreading, bam! Darkspawn. (sorry if this doesn't make much sense, haha) Come to think of it, isn't dragon blood Taint-resistant? So maybe the Qunari were an attempt at a Taint-resistant species or some such. Though if they were, it obviously failed. But I'm getting into imaginary realms here.
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