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Post by angrybunny94 on Jan 12, 2018 20:47:15 GMT
I have personal issues wth "Andromeda"
So I've been a Mass Effect fan for a few years now, and I've played through the original trilogy three times... but I have to say, this last installment was kind of a disappointment 😥 Aside from the fact that it's a totally different kind of game now, the plot just doesn't make sense... I have a few questions... 1. So this "Andromeda Initiative" takes place in a time where humanity has only been on the galactic stage for 25 years, we have few resources and only a few colonies compared to other species, and no seat on the council yet. But we get to build our own multi-billion dollar cryogenic space-ark to set out on the most daring expedition ever achieved....to send humanity on a 600-year trek to the andromeda galaxy... 2. For what reason???? 3. "Oh, no reason really, just cause like, science, right??" 4. Um. What? 5. If you ask any of the crew members why they were chosen or why they signed up to be the first human beings/turians/salarians/asari to arrive in a new galaxy, which is clearly one of the most important feats a species can achieve (like the first moon landing but way, waaay bigger)... Why did they want to leave heir homes forever? Their answers are the same haphazard mix of "idk", "just cause", "science?", "my parents are dead", "I'm a criminal running away from my legal issues" or some other not very profound bullcrap reason. 6. I'm sorry I just don't think any of these civilizations would spend all those resources building these Arks for literally no reason at all. 7. All the while, this is happening in the same universe where the threat of total galactic extinction by the Reapers is not a good enough reason to even mobilize a fleet to fight them... But I guess "my parents are dead" is a better reason to build giant space arks and flee the galaxy. Who cares about the giant killer robots from beyond, right? 8. Oh and just one more thing... if the Reapers were laying dormant in dark space beyond the Milky Way... why didn't we run into one of them on the voyage to Andromeda?? Wouldn't the Reapers have noticed that? And aren't they harvesting species from multiple galaxies? Like Andromeda?? So where are they??
Idk I'm just way too invested in the Mass Effect series to overlook these plot holes. Also I haven't beat the game yet. So if any of these issues are resolved by the end of the game, please give me the spoilers & tell me it's going to be okay.
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Post by souljahbill14 on Jan 12, 2018 21:21:23 GMT
They tell you in the very intro of the game why they’re going to Andromeda. To explore. Yeah, I know, “they could’ve explored the Milky Way.” They didn’t. They wanted Andromeda. So, Andromeda.
Dark space is big. I don’t know where you’re from but to make it simple, the Reapers entered the Milky Way from California whereas the Initiative left the Milky Way from New York. That’s why they didn’t run into each other.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 12, 2018 21:35:21 GMT
You're a little late to the party, aren't you? We've been talking about this stuff for a while. 1. So this "Andromeda Initiative" takes place in a time where humanity has only been on the galactic stage for 25 years, we have few resources and only a few colonies compared to other species, and no seat on the council yet. But we get to build our own multi-billion dollar cryogenic space-ark to set out on the most daring expedition ever achieved....to send humanity on a 600-year trek to the andromeda galaxy... It's OK to be bothered by this, but if you're bothered by this you should be bothered by the whole series. Humanity's already got the fourth-largest fleet in Citadel space, despite having a tiny population and industrial base, and not even being a relatively militarized society according to the Codex. Building an Ark is just more of the same. This is a bit confused. The Andromeda Initiative was founded several years before the Reaper threat was discovered. Anyway, if killer robots are coming to destroy everything, getting a handful of people out of the galaxy looks like a better idea than it was before, not a worse idea. (This comes up at the end of Ryder Family Secrets, actually.) Do you have any idea how big space is? The probability of running into a Reaper would have been infinitesimal.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 12, 2018 21:40:30 GMT
7. All the while, this is happening in the same universe where the threat of total galactic extinction by the Reapers is not a good enough reason to even mobilize a fleet to fight them... But I guess "my parents are dead" is a better reason to build giant space arks and flee the galaxy. Who cares about the giant killer robots from beyond, right? This is a bit confused. The Andromeda Initiative was founded several years before the Reaper threat was discovered. Anyway, if killer robots are coming to destroy everything, getting a handful of people out of the galaxy looks like a better idea than it was before, not a worse idea. (This comes up at the end of Ryder Family Secrets, actually.) [/quote] The point is these massive arks meant to travel across the vast gulf of dark space, were designed and built for trite reasons, while the Reaper invasion and imminent galactic extinction couldn't inspire a unified front in the Milky Way.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 12, 2018 21:41:18 GMT
I have personal issues wth "Andromeda" So I've been a Mass Effect fan for a few years now, and I've played through the original trilogy three times... but I have to say, this last installment was kind of a disappointment 😥 Aside from the fact that it's a totally different kind of game now, the plot just doesn't make sense... I have a few questions... 1. So this "Andromeda Initiative" takes place in a time where humanity has only been on the galactic stage for 25 years, we have few resources and only a few colonies compared to other species, and no seat on the council yet. But we get to build our own multi-billion dollar cryogenic space-ark to set out on the most daring expedition ever achieved....to send humanity on a 600-year trek to the andromeda galaxy... 2. For what reason???? 3. "Oh, no reason really, just cause like, science, right??" 4. Um. What? 5. If you ask any of the crew members why they were chosen or why they signed up to be the first human beings/turians/salarians/asari to arrive in a new galaxy, which is clearly one of the most important feats a species can achieve (like the first moon landing but way, waaay bigger)... Why did they want to leave heir homes forever? Their answers are the same haphazard mix of "idk", "just cause", "science?", "my parents are dead", "I'm a criminal running away from my legal issues" or some other not very profound bullcrap reason. 6. I'm sorry I just don't think any of these civilizations would spend all those resources building these Arks for literally no reason at all. 7. All the while, this is happening in the same universe where the threat of total galactic extinction by the Reapers is not a good enough reason to even mobilize a fleet to fight them... But I guess "my parents are dead" is a better reason to build giant space arks and flee the galaxy. Who cares about the giant killer robots from beyond, right? 8. Oh and just one more thing... if the Reapers were laying dormant in dark space beyond the Milky Way... why didn't we run into one of them on the voyage to Andromeda?? Wouldn't the Reapers have noticed that? And aren't they harvesting species from multiple galaxies? Like Andromeda?? So where are they?? Idk I'm just way too invested in the Mass Effect series to overlook these plot holes. Also I haven't beat the game yet. So if any of these issues are resolved by the end of the game, please give me the spoilers & tell me it's going to be okay. Yeah, pretty much. But then "We f*cked up the setting so bad we had to move it to another galaxy rather than admit our mistakes" wouldn't have made for a good opening crawl...
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 12, 2018 22:10:06 GMT
This is a bit confused. The Andromeda Initiative was founded several years before the Reaper threat was discovered. Anyway, if killer robots are coming to destroy everything, getting a handful of people out of the galaxy looks like a better idea than it was before, not a worse idea. (This comes up at the end of Ryder Family Secrets, actually.) The point is these massive arks meant to travel across the vast gulf of dark space, were designed and built for trite reasons, while the Reaper invasion and imminent galactic extinction couldn't inspire a unified front in the Milky Way. But, again, not taking the Reaper threat seriously is a problem with the trilogy, not ME:A. That ship sailed when they were writing ME2.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jan 12, 2018 22:13:38 GMT
The point is these massive arks meant to travel across the vast gulf of dark space, were designed and built for trite reasons, while the Reaper invasion and imminent galactic extinction couldn't inspire a unified front in the Milky Way. But, again, not taking the Reaper threat seriously is a problem with the trilogy, not ME:A. That ship sailed when they were writing ME2. Well, yeah. But it's not like MEA fixed any of that. It was just further doubling-down.
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Post by natetrace on Jan 12, 2018 22:40:54 GMT
I like Andromeda. The key with many current rpgs, for me, is to figure out the best way to play and enjoy the game. This goes for games from other developers as well as current BioWare games. I'm not going to answer every question, just think of it as Mass Effect 2.5 It is an offshoot that starts between 2 and 3. I wonder how that would go, play ME2, then follow it up with MEA before returning to ME3.
Hopefully we get more content (or a sequel) to tie up loose ends one day. I think that is where the series is at this point. You have the main trilogy and then "a mass effect story" type stuff from now on. Ok maybe I will answer one. The Andromeda Initiative is filled with many outcasts, in varying ways, because who is going to leave a good, stable life behind? The rest of the Milky Way waved them off, and probably thought dealing with The Reapers was more appealing than sitting on Liam's couch. There certainly are days I'd rather get shot by a reaper than deal with a few customers.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 14, 2018 4:40:38 GMT
I have personal issues wth "Andromeda" So I've been a Mass Effect fan for a few years now, and I've played through the original trilogy three times... but I have to say, this last installment was kind of a disappointment 😥 Aside from the fact that it's a totally different kind of game now, the plot just doesn't make sense... I have a few questions... 1. So this "Andromeda Initiative" takes place in a time where humanity has only been on the galactic stage for 25 years, we have few resources and only a few colonies compared to other species, and no seat on the council yet. But we get to build our own multi-billion dollar cryogenic space-ark to set out on the most daring expedition ever achieved....to send humanity on a 600-year trek to the andromeda galaxy... 2. For what reason???? 3. "Oh, no reason really, just cause like, science, right??" 4. Um. What? 5. If you ask any of the crew members why they were chosen or why they signed up to be the first human beings/turians/salarians/asari to arrive in a new galaxy, which is clearly one of the most important feats a species can achieve (like the first moon landing but way, waaay bigger)... Why did they want to leave heir homes forever? Their answers are the same haphazard mix of "idk", "just cause", "science?", "my parents are dead", "I'm a criminal running away from my legal issues" or some other not very profound bullcrap reason. 6. I'm sorry I just don't think any of these civilizations would spend all those resources building these Arks for literally no reason at all. 7. All the while, this is happening in the same universe where the threat of total galactic extinction by the Reapers is not a good enough reason to even mobilize a fleet to fight them... But I guess "my parents are dead" is a better reason to build giant space arks and flee the galaxy. Who cares about the giant killer robots from beyond, right? 8. Oh and just one more thing... if the Reapers were laying dormant in dark space beyond the Milky Way... why didn't we run into one of them on the voyage to Andromeda?? Wouldn't the Reapers have noticed that? And aren't they harvesting species from multiple galaxies? Like Andromeda?? So where are they?? Idk I'm just way too invested in the Mass Effect series to overlook these plot holes. Also I haven't beat the game yet. So if any of these issues are resolved by the end of the game, please give me the spoilers & tell me it's going to be okay. Most of these questions are partly answered in the game through the Ryder Family Secrets questline. Humanity or the other races involved didn't actually fund the Andromeda Initiative, but instead those came from a mystery person or group referred to as the Benefactor. Unlike Jien Garson whose reason for forming the Initiative was genuinely for the love of science and exploration(which I don't see an issue to that since we've done the same thing in our own history like pretty much every space program after the Space Race), the Benefactor has some other unknown reasons for helping the Initiative, including being one of the few who knew about the Reapers or at least noticed the pattern before Shepard revealed that. Not all the questions are answered since Bioware stated in an interview that the Benefactor was going to be part of the megastory, as in the one that spans all the Andromeda games. As for number 5 though, I don't see why that is an issue. Those are all very valid reasons for doing what they did, and we've seen throughout human history people doing the same thing, like immigrating to another continent to colonize it never to return to their home country. The only difference here is because this is science fiction, instead of another continent it is another galaxy but other than that it is the same. As for number 8, as mentioned before space is absolutely massive so the odds of the Reapers running into the Arks is astronomically low. Especially because the Arks went FTL before the Reapers even arrived in the galaxy, and you can't track objects through FTL in the Mass Effect universe. And no, it seems the Reapers were only harvesting the Milky Way so they don't have forces in other galaxies to notice some Milky Way races appearing in Andromeda.
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 14, 2018 5:53:26 GMT
It doesn't make much sense, it's really BioWare retconning the shit out of the franchise, but it's just an half assed retcon. The game already starts like you live in that universe since the dawn of time and everything makes so much sense since we are in Andromeda in less than 2 minutes something. It's bad.
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Post by goishen on Jan 14, 2018 7:13:21 GMT
Humanity's already got the fourth-largest fleet in Citadel space, Which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down from the first and the second fleets in the galaxy. I'm sorry, but I just have to call bullshit here.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 14, 2018 8:10:22 GMT
Humanity's already got the fourth-largest fleet in Citadel space, Which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay from the first and the second fleets in the galaxy. I'm sorry, but I just have to call bullshit here. Where's the bullshit, exactly? There's only one human world with a substantial population. The other races have many. How does humanity even get to the point where they can field a force half as strong as the salarian fleet, and a quarter the strength of the turian fleet? (I'm not sure 1/4 = "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down," but that's just rhetoric.)
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Post by Jeremiah12LGeek on Jan 14, 2018 10:31:37 GMT
I haven't quite sorted the quotes around "Andromeda." O.o
I half-expected the first point to be... "If that is its real name..."
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jan 14, 2018 10:39:02 GMT
Regarding #8, the arks aren't traveling at subluminal speeds. They probably would have hit FTL before even reaching the galactic horizon, in which case they would have shot by any nearby reapers without being detected. Of course, this is putting aside the ridiculous vastness of space, where even a million reapers spread out a few AU apart would be a minute splotch in the area, in which case the chances of even getting near to one just shooting out into dark space would be pretty low.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Jan 14, 2018 13:00:38 GMT
There's only one human world with a substantial population. Tangent, but this is the reason the "WHY IS RETAKING EARTH SO IMPORTANT WHEN EVERY COUNCIL SPECIES' HOMEWORLD IS BEING ATTACKED" thing in ME3 never bugged me (that, and humans being the prime target species as evidenced by ME2). Earth to humanity is effectively like 7 Palavens to the turians.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 14, 2018 13:26:43 GMT
#1. Jein Garson used her own money to build a ship to go to Andromeda so she can do some exploring. At some point she realized she didn't have enough to finish her project. In comes the Benefactor.
What I would be curious is how much of the project was completed before the Benefactor stepped in and when did the Benefactor step in?
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Post by isaidlunch on Jan 14, 2018 14:22:03 GMT
I'm surprised you made it past ME2 if plot holes bother you so much, each of the trilogy games are riddled with them. For all that MEA does wrong, it may actually be the best ME game when it comes to avoiding plot holes.
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Post by SofNascimento on Jan 14, 2018 18:40:49 GMT
The Andromeda Initiative cannot be explained with anything that comes close to be called reason or logic.
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Post by stealthfox94 on Jan 15, 2018 3:04:53 GMT
Star Wars doesn't make any sense. Neither does TW3.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
Posts: 5,220 Likes: 5,079
inherit
At sunrise there is the sunset.
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5,079
Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
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November 2016
thelastvanguardian
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
No
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Jan 15, 2018 7:34:43 GMT
I have personal issues wth "Andromeda"So I've been a Mass Effect fan for a few years now, and I've played through the original trilogy three times... but I have to say, this last installment was kind of a disappointment 😥 Aside from the fact that it's a totally different kind of game now, the plot just doesn't make sense... I have a few questions... Don't we all. Technically it was 37 Years from the Discovery of Mass Effect technology -2148 -to the launch of the A.I. -2185. Mass Effect Andromeda launched after ME1 and ME2 begins -IE: 2185. ME1 & ME2 in 2183 & 2184 respectively. ME3 begins near the end of September or the beginning on October 2186. Also by the time the Initiative is founded and begins the preparations for the trip Humanity has a seat on the council. Also with the discovery of Mass Effect Field technology resources are not that hard to come by anymore: These are not mutually exclusive. They are a combined issue. And as has been said before this is solved partially by the Ryder Family Secrets quest. But as all have already figured out they were going to somehow have to shoehorn in a reason. While this is actually hidden from most for the obvious reasons... Remember the Reapers do have spies at this time nonetheless. If they found out... what would they do? I think we all already know. This is a rather common Idiom: To start over with a clean slate or to begin again anew with no attachments to the past.If there is anything you would ever want to do different... A mistake you best want to forget and put it in the past... You do it and move on to the future and never look back. Who would not give the chance for a do over for a life lived wrong to what they wanted? In my opinion this is one of the few reasons that ME:A did right. Again as said before the Initiative was set up by this "Benefactor" -be it a group or a lone person -identity of them is not based to any one race. Kind of like the Cerberus organization was a financial power house while being independent of the System Alliance. Point is that the A.I. was not backed by any of the governments of the Milky Way -and if otherwise -well hidden. More likely it is like an organization like "Feed the children" or "Disabled Veterans of *Country So & So* Where the wealthy fund it -either with the inclusion of themselves or true altruism . As stated the A.I. was founded before Mass Effect 3. The very game which is about building a fleet -among other things to stop these machines. I see the A.I. as a Contingency Plan by the financial and scientist elite so as not to hedge all their eggs in one basket. Should the Reaper threat turn out to be true at least from their viewpoint. Sure space is vast and while that may be one solution but I have to ask: Did you not play the Leviathan part of ME3? That explains a lot. The Reapers are natives of the Milky Way -albeit many generations removed from their originality. It is my opinion -whether or not the Reapers want to believe it: The Reapers still have an attachment for their home galaxy. Plus who is to say that the Reapers have not become dependent on the Harvesting to function for extended periods. Contiguous cycles of 50000 years and they have not altered? Stagnation of a society -even dread machines will lead to degradation. They may not be able to make it as far as Andromeda or its orbiting Triangulum satellite galaxy without ceasing. Also could they even catch us? I may be wrong -since I have not played in so long but do the Reapers only use the Relays to travel FTL -or can they jump like say the Normandy? Some but not all. Again ME:A got the KOTOR 2 treatment: Rushed in two years out the door. After initial plans were changed.
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Post by Arkhne on Jan 15, 2018 13:55:00 GMT
I'm surprised you made it past ME2 if plot holes bother you so much, each of the trilogy games are riddled with them. For all that MEA does wrong, it may actually be the best ME game when it comes to avoiding plot holes. Really? I feel like you're deluding yourself, they're all equally loaded full of inexplicable plot holes. ME:A just doesn't even pretend to explain things, less plot to poke holes in.
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Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 15, 2018 16:46:06 GMT
I'm surprised you made it past ME2 if plot holes bother you so much, each of the trilogy games are riddled with them. For all that MEA does wrong, it may actually be the best ME game when it comes to avoiding plot holes. Wait, MEA had a plot? I thought that MEA was having a midlife crisis.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Post by Iakus on Jan 16, 2018 15:08:41 GMT
#1. Jein Garson used her own money to build a ship to go to Andromeda so she can do some exploring. At some point she realized she didn't have enough to finish her project. In comes the Benefactor. What I would be curious is how much of the project was completed before the Benefactor stepped in and when did the Benefactor step in? A ship which contained technology equivalent to a bottomless gas tank for us. But which the Milky Way never got around to adapting...
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 16, 2018 17:11:02 GMT
Who says they didn't have it on a few ships?
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 21,289 Likes: 50,644
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Post by Iakus on Jan 16, 2018 17:35:45 GMT
Who says they didn't have it on a few ships? Because it's not on their newest, most high-tech long range recon frigate...
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