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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 22:11:48 GMT
If they make Destroy canon, they lose me as a customer of this next game with Shepard. I'd say some of the other choices would have a huge effect on the story, since entire iconic races could exist or be gone. I'm all for a remaster, but any new games should take place in Andromeda over making a canon post-Reaper War state. I actually liked MEA more than any individual game in the Shepard Trilogy anyway. If they make A second Andromeda they'll lose me as a customer for the only franchise that's keeping me here. Because compared to any game in the Trilogy, Andromeda was dull and Average. And as for the krogan choice they can make that cannon as well. They did it for the rachni, and the prothens with the day one DLC for Javik, why not the Krogans? Oh and rather or not the Korgan have a cure has already been canonized through Andromeda by the Krogan finding out they have a genetic mutation that naturally resist genophage. So I still can't see the issue. But like I said, the player can keep those choices. A species being extinct, has nothing to do with the overarching story for the Reapers. The OT is what made ME great, whatever Andromeda can hope to do will never be better than Shepard and his crew. But that just my opinion anyway. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 22:17:29 GMT
I get that. I just think trying to do "just one more" to something that is already complete will be a disaster. Shepard had his/her story. There was a mission to be done, one that had needed to be done for the last billion years, and it was finally accomplished. How can any future mission ever come close to topping what's already be done? It would seem a bit on the boring side. Now, if Destroy was chosen (me preference), I still think the Leviathan are the biggest threat out there, but let someone else handle it. I mean, if Shepard was the only capable person in the galaxy, everyone is screwed anyway. Besides, nothing suggests BioWare is currently capable of writing the way they did when the MET came out. I think it's just an exercise in disappointment that would only tarnish our view of Shepard. A disaster? Andromeda was a disaster! Whatever BW decides to make, can top Andromeda easily. There's no way but up for BW after that crap show. But I agree with you on their writing team. Who knows what may come if they try to make a successor for ME3. That's why I'd be fine with a remaster for their next project. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2018 22:18:33 GMT
As long as they throw out choices honestly, I'm OK with that. Just say "this is what this particular Shepard did" and be done with it. Still don't get the appeal of a remaster, but it's not like I'd have to buy it. They don't even have to say "this is what this particular shep did" As I see it BW just have to make destroy cannon. Players can have their other choices, because those other choices don't really affect the overall story anyway. Hell, I didn't even pick destroy but I'd be fine with making it cannon. They ought to go all-in if they do it at all. It does nobody any good to pretend that they're preserving choices if they aren't |
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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 22:30:59 GMT
They don't even have to say "this is what this particular shep did" As I see it BW just have to make destroy cannon. Players can have their other choices, because those other choices don't really affect the overall story anyway. Hell, I didn't even pick destroy but I'd be fine with making it cannon. They ought to go all-in if they do it at all. It does nobody any good to pretend that they're preserving choices if they aren't The entire trilogy, including Andromeda had an illusion of choice in the first place. Each game has re-written something or made something cannon one way or another, regardless of player choice. Hell they even re-wrote the ending because the player base saw flaws in it. Anyone remember the ending before the extended cut when the relays exploded instead of just changing the atmosphere different colors? BW was reminded that a relay exploding can kill an entire cluster, like what happened in the arrival DLC. Choices never did matter in ME to the overall story arch. |
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Post by souljahbill14 on Mar 18, 2018 22:47:01 GMT
With all due respect to some of y’all, I think y’all are putting the writing in the trilogy on too high of a pedestal. There are NUMEROUS moments of bad writing within the trilogy. It wasn’t nearly as good as some people are making it out to be.
I understand that Andromeda didn’t hit the mark with everyone but let’s not get carried away with how great everything was in the trilogy. As the first game in a new set of games, Andromeda works just fine. But if you want to compare 1 game to a complete 3 act story (one where the middle act is completely pointless, I might add), you were bound for disappointment before the game even released.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2018 23:17:47 GMT
They ought to go all-in if they do it at all. It does nobody any good to pretend that they're preserving choices if they aren't The entire trilogy, including Andromeda had an illusion of choice in the first place. Each game has re-written something or made something cannon one way or another, regardless of player choice. Hell they even re-wrote the ending because the player base saw flaws in it. Anyone remember the ending before the extended cut when the relays exploded instead of just changing the atmosphere different colors? BW was reminded that a relay exploding can kill an entire cluster, like what happened in the arrival DLC. Choices never did matter in ME to the overall story arch. The fanbase was just being stupid worrying about relays exploding. The first one to blow is the Citadel Relay, and that blast doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. As for the topic, I'm not quite clear about your position. You seem to be arguing in favor of more dishonesty, but I don't see the advantage. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 23:18:13 GMT
With all due respect to some of y’all, I think y’all are putting the writing in the trilogy on too high of a pedestal. There are NUMEROUS moments of bad writing within the trilogy. It wasn’t nearly as good as some people are making it out to be. I understand that Andromeda didn’t hit the mark with everyone but let’s not get carried away with how great everything was in the trilogy. As the first game in a new set of games, Andromeda works just fine. But if you want to compare 1 game to a complete 3 act story (one where the middle act is completely pointless, I might add), you were bound for disappointment before the game even released. We don't have to compare Andromeda to all 3 games. Each game of the Trilogy, stand alone, had a better story, was better polished, and had better characters. Everyone always like to say you can't compare Andromeda to the trilogy because Andromeda is "The first in it's series and the OT has three acts." Each game in the OT can stand on its own merits. Also what does it matter that ME2 story didn't coincide with the others. It was still the best received from critics and gamers, and was more interesting than Andromeda. I personally am not comparing Andromeda to the entire OT. It's just all the games in the OT are far better than Andromeda. |
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Post by souljahbill14 on Mar 18, 2018 23:25:48 GMT
With all due respect to some of y’all, I think y’all are putting the writing in the trilogy on too high of a pedestal. There are NUMEROUS moments of bad writing within the trilogy. It wasn’t nearly as good as some people are making it out to be. I understand that Andromeda didn’t hit the mark with everyone but let’s not get carried away with how great everything was in the trilogy. As the first game in a new set of games, Andromeda works just fine. But if you want to compare 1 game to a complete 3 act story (one where the middle act is completely pointless, I might add), you were bound for disappointment before the game even released. We don't have to compare Andromeda to all 3 games. Each game of the Trilogy, stand alone, had a better story, was better polished, and had better characters. Everyone always like to say you can't compare Andromeda to the trilogy because Andromeda is "The first in it's series and the OT has three acts." Each game in the OT can stand on its own merits. Also what does it matter that ME2 story didn't coincide with the others. It was still the best received from critics and gamers, and was more interesting than Andromeda. I personally am not comparing Andromeda to the entire OT. It's just all the games in the OT are far better than Andromeda. I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t want to get into a game bashing debate but I don’t agree at all, especially in regards to which games had better characters and which games had better stories. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 23:30:11 GMT
The entire trilogy, including Andromeda had an illusion of choice in the first place. Each game has re-written something or made something cannon one way or another, regardless of player choice. Hell they even re-wrote the ending because the player base saw flaws in it. Anyone remember the ending before the extended cut when the relays exploded instead of just changing the atmosphere different colors? BW was reminded that a relay exploding can kill an entire cluster, like what happened in the arrival DLC. Choices never did matter in ME to the overall story arch. The fanbase was just being stupid worrying about relays exploding. The first one to blow is the Citadel Relay, and that blast doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 18, 2018 23:31:20 GMT
We don't have to compare Andromeda to all 3 games. Each game of the Trilogy, stand alone, had a better story, was better polished, and had better characters. Everyone always like to say you can't compare Andromeda to the trilogy because Andromeda is "The first in it's series and the OT has three acts." Each game in the OT can stand on its own merits. Also what does it matter that ME2 story didn't coincide with the others. It was still the best received from critics and gamers, and was more interesting than Andromeda. I personally am not comparing Andromeda to the entire OT. It's just all the games in the OT are far better than Andromeda. I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t want to get into a game bashing debate but I don’t agree at all, especially in regards to which games had better characters and which games had better stories. Well it all boils down to opinion anyway, so... |
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Post by souljahbill14 on Mar 18, 2018 23:35:38 GMT
I couldn’t disagree more. I don’t want to get into a game bashing debate but I don’t agree at all, especially in regards to which games had better characters and which games had better stories. Well it all boils down to opinion anyway, so... That, I agree with. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 19, 2018 0:41:26 GMT
The entire trilogy, including Andromeda had an illusion of choice in the first place. Each game has re-written something or made something cannon one way or another, regardless of player choice. Hell they even re-wrote the ending because the player base saw flaws in it. Anyone remember the ending before the extended cut when the relays exploded instead of just changing the atmosphere different colors? BW was reminded that a relay exploding can kill an entire cluster, like what happened in the arrival DLC. Choices never did matter in ME to the overall story arch. As for the topic, I'm not quite clear about your position. You seem to be arguing in favor of more dishonesty, but I don't see the advantage. I'm arguing; as a fanbase we shouldn't care if a successor to ME3 is created and doesn't take player choice into account, because player choice have not been considered through all the games (i.e. I wouldn't mind if destroy is made cannon). A lot of people are arguing there shouldn't be a successor to ME3 because player choice won't be taken into account. These people fail to realize many of the player choices through the games have not been taken into account in the first place. That's why it may seems I'm for "dishonesty" I just feel If BW has to make or canonized some things to make a successor to ME3, I wouldn't mind. Given there already has been things re-written or canonized regardless of player choice. I hope that clears up everything.  |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 19, 2018 1:40:06 GMT
With all due respect to some of y’all, I think y’all are putting the writing in the trilogy on too high of a pedestal. There are NUMEROUS moments of bad writing within the trilogy. It wasn’t nearly as good as some people are making it out to be. I understand that Andromeda didn’t hit the mark with everyone but let’s not get carried away with how great everything was in the trilogy. As the first game in a new set of games, Andromeda works just fine. But if you want to compare 1 game to a complete 3 act story (one where the middle act is completely pointless, I might add), you were bound for disappointment before the game even released. So, yes, you're write. MET wasn't perfect by any stretch and in some ways got worse as it went along. My main complaint with MEA is that it didn't deliver a complete product. ME1 gave the full story. Had ME2 never been made, you could still imagine Shepard going off to fight the good fight should the Reapers eventually come along. MEA, in contrast, thinks it's okay to wrap things up in a novel. Given that kind of thinking, I have no desire for a post-Reaper War setting. |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 19, 2018 1:42:19 GMT
The fanbase was just being stupid worrying about relays exploding. The first one to blow is the Citadel Relay, and that blast doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. While true, this was already lore-breaking. A super-nova was unable to destroy the Mu Relay, merely causing it to be shot through space and become "lost". While I love Arrival and believe it was the best intro to ME3 they could have had, it already had "bad writing" due to not working with what we already knew to be true of mass relays. |
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 19, 2018 2:27:51 GMT
The fanbase was just being stupid worrying about relays exploding. The first one to blow is the Citadel Relay, and that blast doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. I think the guy means the Citadel itself. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 19, 2018 2:30:23 GMT
If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. While true, this was already lore-breaking. A super-nova was unable to destroy the Mu Relay, merely causing it to be shot through space and become "lost". While I love Arrival and believe it was the best intro to ME3 they could have had, it already had "bad writing" due to not working with what we already knew to be true of mass relays. Well if I remember correctly that asteroid was as big as the relay itself in arrival. Also we don't know all of the circumstances surrounding the mu relay. Though I'll agree it could be lore breaking, that an asteroid can destroy a relay. But that does not negate the fact that if a mass relay is destroyed it will destroy an entire cluster, that has been established through the arrival DLC. And before the extended cut, the relays were destroyed during the cut scenes. Which in turn would have destroyed basically destroyed every cluster in the MW. This was one of the reasons why the extended cut was implemented, besides other things. It just goes to show you, BW has re-written things before. Canonizing a ending for another game in the MW, possibly with Shepard  , shouldn't be a problem for fans. Given other things in the game have been changed before, despite the choices of the player. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 19, 2018 2:33:00 GMT
If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. I think the guy means the Citadel itself. Well if he does. There is no knowledge on what the citadel could do to a star cluster if it explodes. So obviously it does nothing, sense it was shown to do nothing when it exploded. |
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2018 2:43:52 GMT
The fanbase was just being stupid worrying about relays exploding. The first one to blow is the Citadel Relay, and that blast doesn't even destroy the Citadel, let alone Earth. If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. I'm talking about the main Citadel relay. You know.... the one that the entire plot of ME1 was about. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 19, 2018 3:09:06 GMT
If you're talking about the Citadel relay that was on the presidium, you have to remember that was a small scale mass relay. It is not the the same size as the regular ones. That's why it doesn't destroy anything. If you go back and play the Arrival DLC a regular size relay can destroy an entire Cluster. That's what happen to the batarian home word in arrival. I'm talking about the main Citadel relay. You know.... the one that the entire plot of ME1 was about. Yeah the mu relay. It wasn't as big as the normal relays. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 19, 2018 3:10:13 GMT
I'm talking about the main Citadel relay. You know.... the one that the entire plot of ME1 was about. Yeah the mu relay. It wasn't as big as the normal relays. The Conduit was the mini Mass Relay the Protheans built. The Mu Relay was a regular Mass Relay that connected to the one near Ilos. |
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Post by 10k on Mar 19, 2018 3:23:19 GMT
Yeah the mu relay. It wasn't as big as the normal relays. The Conduit was the mini Mass Relay the Protheans built. The Mu Relay was a regular Mass Relay that connected to the one near Ilos. Yeah I got mixed up the relay monument is actually the one on the citadel that is the small one. I don't think it has a name. |
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Mar 19, 2018 6:16:43 GMT
With all due respect to some of y’all, I think y’all are putting the writing in the trilogy on too high of a pedestal. There are NUMEROUS moments of bad writing within the trilogy. It wasn’t nearly as good as some people are making it out to be. I understand that Andromeda didn’t hit the mark with everyone but let’s not get carried away with how great everything was in the trilogy. As the first game in a new set of games, Andromeda works just fine. But if you want to compare 1 game to a complete 3 act story (one where the middle act is completely pointless, I might add), you were bound for disappointment before the game even released. So, yes, you're write. MET wasn't perfect by any stretch and in some ways got worse as it went along. My main complaint with MEA is that it didn't deliver a complete product. ME1 gave the full story. Had ME2 never been made, you could still imagine Shepard going off to fight the good fight should the Reapers eventually come along. MEA, in contrast, thinks it's okay to wrap things up in a novel. Given that kind of thinking, I have no desire for a post-Reaper War setting. Pretty much, I killed the Rachni, and there they were in ME3. They can just as easily spin something similar to that for all the choices, didn't cure the genophage like me, well tough 3 years later the Salarians cured it on their own. They would only have to over ride fully the final choice, and destroy leaves the setting the most intact. The rest of the decisions they can keep but other people took actions that made it irrelevant or other story dodge. |
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ahglock
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Post by ahglock on Mar 19, 2018 6:23:38 GMT
Not to mention the countless choices that have already been thrown out the window through the trilogy. Personally I don't see a reason why we can't go back to the MW or Shepard being alive for another game, when choices barley mattered in the first place. A return to the MW is what Mass Effect need. Or at the very least a remaster of the trilogy. As long as they throw out choices honestly, I'm OK with that. Just say "this is what this particular Shepard did" and be done with it. Still don't get the appeal of a remaster, but it's not like I'd have to buy it. My hope for a remaster would be more of a remake. Remake ME1 with modern game play, remake the ending entirely.(honestly I always hated the core plot of ME3, the mystery super gun was just dumb IMO) Just go with the reapers having to fly to the MW instead of relaying in caused enough damage that you had a fighting chance. 1, it makes the events of ME1 and 2 seem more relevant to ME3, and the whole alliance thing makes more sense to me. If all you need is the super gun built why are you wasting time with the alliance, just get it going and fire it. 3. A ending without 3 dumb space magic choices makes a ME4 easier to pull off without overriding a big end choice. Pie in the sky. |
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 19, 2018 6:36:31 GMT
So, yes, you're write. MET wasn't perfect by any stretch and in some ways got worse as it went along. My main complaint with MEA is that it didn't deliver a complete product. ME1 gave the full story. Had ME2 never been made, you could still imagine Shepard going off to fight the good fight should the Reapers eventually come along. MEA, in contrast, thinks it's okay to wrap things up in a novel. Given that kind of thinking, I have no desire for a post-Reaper War setting. Pretty much, I killed the Rachni, and there they were in ME3. They can just as easily spin something similar to that for all the choices, didn't cure the genophage like me, well tough 3 years later the Salarians cured it on their own. They would only have to over ride fully the final choice, and destroy leaves the setting the most intact. The rest of the decisions they can keep but other people took actions that made it irrelevant or other story dodge. Well, no. You killed the Rachni Queen and the Rachni you encountered Cerberus facilities, freighters and Binary Helix. Barely a stretch that more were out there. Also, the one in ME3 was a clone or something, correct? Cerberus was known to be experimenting on them in ME1 with the idea of turning them into weapons. That they succeeded shouldn't turn out to be a surprise. It just proves what I always thought that any idea Cerberus were "good guys" in any sense of the word was merely a cover for their true terrorist nature. ME3 pretty much confirmed that when Shepard and EDI broke into Cronos Station. Can terrorists sometimes do things that amount to the right thing because they have a good cause? Sure. Still doesn't make them anything other than terrorists. (Sorry for the off-topic rant.) |
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Mar 19, 2018 6:46:03 GMT
Pretty much, I killed the Rachni, and there they were in ME3. They can just as easily spin something similar to that for all the choices, didn't cure the genophage like me, well tough 3 years later the Salarians cured it on their own. They would only have to over ride fully the final choice, and destroy leaves the setting the most intact. The rest of the decisions they can keep but other people took actions that made it irrelevant or other story dodge. Well, no. You killed the Rachni Queen and the Rachni you encountered Cerberus facilities, freighters and Binary Helix. Barely a stretch that more were out there. Also, the one in ME3 was a clone or something, correct? Cerberus was known to be experimenting on them in ME1 with the idea of turning them into weapons. That they succeeded shouldn't turn out to be a surprise. It just proves what I always thought that any idea Cerberus were "good guys" in any sense of the word was merely a cover for their true terrorist nature. ME3 pretty much confirmed that when Shepard and EDI broke into Cronos Station. Can terrorists sometimes do things that amount to the right thing because they have a good cause? Sure. Still doesn't make them anything other than terrorists. (Sorry for the off-topic rant.) That's my point. It ended up being a clone sure, but whatever you decide they can pretty much ignore it and add a line of dialogue to explain why. Oh sure we said it was genocide when you did it, so clones. I shot mordin to stop the cure, it's not a stretch someone else cures it anyways. You cured it, not a stretch the salarians made another one. Ir's like one line of dialogue, and whatever default setting they want for ME4 fits your decisions. The only thing they would need to actually override instead of explain around is the end decision. And really only syntheses, would be hard to explain around. Control you can just say Shepard took off with the reapers into dark space hopefully never to be seen again. Hell synthesis especially if you hop 10-15 years into the future you can ignore with space magic explanations. Your decisions are great, but time moves on and people can make decisions that can erase them. |
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, shouldn't be a problem for fans. Given other things in the game have been changed before, despite the choices of the player. 