The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on May 30, 2021 21:55:46 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT.
One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 30, 2021 22:10:30 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT. One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2. One example is how, in recent comics, like Squirrel Girl, especially Squirrel Girl, they would introduce entire groups of new characters that had never seen each other and then they'd instantly hit it off and be best friends. I don't know about you, but even in the military, people that I've had to depend on for my life, we didn't get along with. Not always. The relationships that the Andromeda characters develop between them, I don't feel them. It comes off as unrealistic and convenient to me. And I get that you may like it and have fun with it, but it's not my thing.
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Post by smilesja on May 30, 2021 22:21:41 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT. One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2. I dunno, I'd say the quality of the interactions is enhanced by the fact that they aren't boxed in one area like somebody said above. I definitely wouldn't rate interactions between the squad in the OT as steller really because it just felt like filler and you need to bring them along in order to hear the banter. While it is true to an extent in ME: A, it's more varied and I'd say more immersive than what the OT did except for ME3.
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The Elder King
N6
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Post by The Elder King on May 30, 2021 22:23:25 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT. One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2. One example is how, in recent comics, like Squirrel Girl, especially Squirrel Girl, they would introduce entire groups of new characters that had never seen each other and then they'd instantly hit it off and be best friends. I don't know about you, but even in the military, people that I've had to depend on for my life, we didn't get along with. Not always. The relationships that the Andromeda characters develop between them, I don't feel them. It comes off as unrealistic and convenient to me. And I get that you may like it and have fun with it, but it's not my thing. I wouldn't say that the characters in MEA instanstly bonded with each other, or become best friends. It is true that there is less tension between them compared to other Bioware games, and much more light-hearted, comedic moments, and I get why some wouldn't like that. I did personally like the cast and their interactions (although it's not my favourite Bioware cast), but I didn't care much for the movie night plot. I think that there were better ways to handle a full cast scene.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on May 30, 2021 22:30:34 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT. One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2. I dunno, I'd say the quality of the interactions is enhanced by the fact that they aren't boxed in one area like somebody said above. I definitely wouldn't rate interactions between the squad in the OT as steller really because it just felt like filler and you need to bring them along in order to hear the banter. While it is true to an extent in ME: A, it's more varied and I'd say more immersive than what the OT did except for ME3. Again thought, those are, I think, two different things. It's undeniable that the way MEA handled interactions between squadmates is better, because it's not as limiting as it was in the OT. But that's not something strictly related to MEA. ME3 handled interactions between squadmates better then ME2, for example. I still prefer the ME2 cast to ME3's. It doesn't mean that one has to prefer the interactions and chemistry between the MEA cast, howewer. People might still prefer the OT crew and the chemistry shown between them, even if the opportunities for them to interact were far more limiting.
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Post by wright1978 on May 30, 2021 22:49:57 GMT
I think you’re debating two different things. Wright might be talking about chemistry between squadmates in the (small) scenes they’re together, as well as the expanded banter in ME3, and Citadel. If we’re talking about the number of interactions and banter between squadmate, it’s quite true that MEA has much more interactions between squadmates, expecially compared to ME and ME2. It doesn’t mean that for some, it didn’t make said squadmates interesting or their chemistry better then the OT. One reason I’d have liked full remakes for the OT is much more interactions between squadmates, expecially in ME2. Yeah for me me2’s set pieces did a very good job of showcasing chemistry between sets of characters even if interactions were more limited. i agree that me3’ introducing squad mates moving around was a good innovation. i simply don’t feel mea chemistry was well done even if there were more interactions.
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Post by themikefest on May 31, 2021 0:19:57 GMT
ah yes banter. I like to have more interactions with the crew. They're just as important as the squad. When I'm on the ship, I want to talk with the crew. Get updates about how well the ship is operating. It would have been nice if Bioware had Traynor playing chess with the other characters kicking a**. Maybe even talking smack how she beat the all powerful Commander Shepard.
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Post by Guardian on May 31, 2021 0:43:55 GMT
I dunno, I'd say the quality of the interactions is enhanced by the fact that they aren't boxed in one area like somebody said above. I definitely wouldn't rate interactions between the squad in the OT as steller really because it just felt like filler and you need to bring them along in order to hear the banter. While it is true to an extent in ME: A, it's more varied and I'd say more immersive than what the OT did except for ME3. Again thought, those are, I think, two different things. It's undeniable that the way MEA handled interactions between squadmates is better, because it's not as limiting as it was in the OT. But that's not something strictly related to MEA. ME3 handled interactions between squadmates better then ME2, for example. I still prefer the ME2 cast to ME3's. It doesn't mean that one has to prefer the interactions and chemistry between the MEA cast, howewer. People might still prefer the OT crew and the chemistry shown between them, even if the opportunities for them to interact were far more limiting.
Exactly; nothing wrong with liking different things. It's when people start to shout how you're wrong for liking something they don't, or calling you stupid for liking it, is where I draw the line.
While I didn't mind Andromeda, I do get what sirpetrakus is saying. Did it bother me? Not really, but I don't think the opposite really helped either. As many have said before, it felt like BioWare was doing a 180 with Andromeda's tone after ME3. For some it was just right, others it was too much (haven't seen someone seriously say it wasn't enough). I think for me it might have been a tad much, but at the same time, it's not technically a military ship, not like the Normandy was. So on the one hand, I get the laissez-faire feel to it; on the other, it just seemed to miss that certain *something* to capture me like the ME1 crew did.
Again, nothing wrong with liking it; at the end, we're all still fans of the franchise, and that's what matters most.
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Post by ClarkKent on May 31, 2021 11:50:09 GMT
The sheer volume of squad interactions in MEA were a demonstration of quantity over quality. It was great that there was always new stuff to hear on the Tempest but if the characters themselves aren't great then it's just...a lot of content.
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Post by trinity0 on May 31, 2021 13:57:27 GMT
I just watched the Mass Effect Legendary Cast & Crew Celebration and Ali Hillis' telling pause when asked if Liara will be part of future Mass Effect games was noticeable
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 15:22:44 GMT
I’d say that if even if she didn’t know nothing in December, she was likely contacted by BioWare in theme months. Regardless of how big her role is going to be in NME, I honestly doubt they’d put her in the teaser and have her be a cameo in the game.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 15:46:55 GMT
I’d say that if even if she didn’t know nothing in December, she was likely contacted by BioWare in theme months. Regardless of how big her role is going to be in NME, I honestly doubt they’d put her in the teaser and have her be a cameo in the game. Hardly. I told you guys about Liara last May. You think she wouldn't have been contacted about it, since? What if Ali had just booked herself some other job that prevented her from recording the lines Bioware needed of her? Of course, they wouldn't even have lines for her, at the time the decision to bring Liara back was made, but they would schedule for audio recording over some time, by approximation, allocating time for re-recording or additional audio work as well.
Some time in 2026, I assume.
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Post by Noxluxe on May 31, 2021 15:53:07 GMT
If things in the galaxy are back on track in some sense in the next game, I really hope the Volus have finally gotten their seat on the Council.
There's a definite tendency towards the more humanoid-shaped aliens being more integral to galactic politics in the OT, and while I can believe that species like the Hanar and Elcor are just not very mentally, socially or physically suited for integration I don't see any reason why the Volus would stay on the fringes for long. They seem eager and ambitious enough, and we know from the real world that driven people who work in commerce can end up accumulating a fuckton of power and influence compared to everyone else.
If someone had given me the bullet points on each of the different species before I ever touched a Mass Effect game, my first guess about the setting would have been that the fat space capitalist hobbits were in the process of taking over the galactic economy, and that the only reasons the omnisexual monogender space elves could even compete with them were their head-start and their longevity.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 16:57:28 GMT
I’d say that if even if she didn’t know nothing in December, she was likely contacted by BioWare in theme months. Regardless of how big her role is going to be in NME, I honestly doubt they’d put her in the teaser and have her be a cameo in the game. Hardly. I told you guys about Liara last May. You think she wouldn't have been contacted about it, since? What if Ali had just booked herself some other job that prevented her from recording the lines Bioware needed of her? Of course, they wouldn't even have lines for her, at the time the decision to bring Liara back was made, but they would schedule for audio recording over some time, by approximation, allocating time for re-recording or additional audio work as well.
Some time in 2026, I assume.
I wasn’t much around here last May, so I wouldn’t know that. Although, would it be really necessary to contact and book Ali before the teaser, when the game is years away? I don’t think that’s really the norm, although it might be more common for recurring characters.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 17:58:01 GMT
Hardly. I told you guys about Liara last May. You think she wouldn't have been contacted about it, since? What if Ali had just booked herself some other job that prevented her from recording the lines Bioware needed of her? Of course, they wouldn't even have lines for her, at the time the decision to bring Liara back was made, but they would schedule for audio recording over some time, by approximation, allocating time for re-recording or additional audio work as well.
Some time in 2026, I assume.
I wasn’t much around here last May, so I wouldn’t know that. Although, would it be really necessary to contact and book Ali before the teaser, when the game is years away? I don’t think that’s really the norm, although it might be more common for recurring characters. I'd argue things aren't left as much to chance anymore. Like Henry Cavil's moustache in Mission Impossible. There would be a contract, regarding Ali, that said "when we need you, you're there and we don't care if you're the next Captain Marvel" sort of thing. If I knew, Ali knew before me. And if Shepard was coming back, I'd have told you that Jennifer Hale/Mark Meer knew. As it is, I don't know who the protagonist's VAs are.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 18:01:05 GMT
I wasn’t much around here last May, so I wouldn’t know that. Although, would it be really necessary to contact and book Ali before the teaser, when the game is years away? I don’t think that’s really the norm, although it might be more common for recurring characters. I'd argue things aren't left as much to chance anymore. Like Henry Cavil's moustache in Mission Impossible. There would be a contract, regarding Ali, that said "when we need you, you're there and we don't care if you're the next Captain Marvel" sort of thing. If I knew, Ali knew before me. And if Shepard was coming back, I'd have told you that Jennifer Hale/Mark Meer knew. As it is, I don't know who the protagonist's VAs are. Fair enough. As for the protagonist, maybe the decision isn't set in stone yet. I don't mean with that, that there's a chance for Shepard to come back, but that they're not sure yet on the direction to go.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 18:12:55 GMT
Fair enough. As for the protagonist, maybe the decision isn't set in stone yet. I don't mean with that, that there's a chance for Shepard to come back, but that they're not sure yet on the direction to go. While it is possible, it mostly points to a new protagonist. In my opinion. Which will be the same as the last protagonist. Which is every protagonist, since DA2. Well, not exactly, but you get what I mean.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 18:22:42 GMT
Fair enough. As for the protagonist, maybe the decision isn't set in stone yet. I don't mean with that, that there's a chance for Shepard to come back, but that they're not sure yet on the direction to go. While it is possible, it mostly points to a new protagonist. In my opinion. Which will be the same as the last protagonist. Which is every protagonist, since DA2. Well, not exactly, but you get what I mean. I'm not as negative as you about a new protagonist, but it'll be certainly interesting if they'll go for a new protagonist, in the sense that they'd alienate both the fans that want Shepard back, and those that want Ryder back. I'd say this: while I know that a lot of people didn't like Ryder much, it might've been easier to build up from them, instead of going for a new protagonist, given the hurdles already in place for a new ME game that is going to seemingly deal with the ME3 endings, their canonization, and a possible 'fusion' of the MW and Andromeda setting.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 18:39:00 GMT
I'm not as negative as you about a new protagonist, but it'll be certainly interesting if they'll go for a new protagonist, in the sense that they'd alienate both the fans that want Shepard back, and those that want Ryder back. I don't think they have much of a choice? Ryder got such a bad rep, from the in-game models to the personality of the twins, that an announcement would provoke a lot of mockery. I'd say this: while I know that a lot of people didn't like Ryder much, it might've been easier to build up from them, instead of going for a new protagonist, given the hurdles already in place for a new ME game that is going to seemingly deal with the ME3 endings, their canonization, and a possible 'fusion' of the MW and Andromeda setting. I don't know how Ryder could help soften that. Familiarity?
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Post by Iakus on May 31, 2021 18:43:00 GMT
While it is possible, it mostly points to a new protagonist. In my opinion. Which will be the same as the last protagonist. Which is every protagonist, since DA2. Well, not exactly, but you get what I mean. I'm not as negative as you about a new protagonist, but it'll be certainly interesting if they'll go for a new protagonist, in the sense that they'd alienate both the fans that want Shepard back, and those that want Ryder back. I'd say this: while I know that a lot of people didn't like Ryder much, it might've been easier to build up from them, instead of going for a new protagonist, given the hurdles already in place for a new ME game that is going to seemingly deal with the ME3 endings, their canonization, and a possible 'fusion' of the MW and Andromeda setting. If Shepard has taught us anything, it's that returning protagonists come with too much baggage.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 18:54:22 GMT
I'm not as negative as you about a new protagonist, but it'll be certainly interesting if they'll go for a new protagonist, in the sense that they'd alienate both the fans that want Shepard back, and those that want Ryder back. I don't think they have much of a choice? Ryder got such a bad rep, from the in-game models to the personality of the twins, that an announcement would provoke a lot of mockery. I'd say this: while I know that a lot of people didn't like Ryder much, it might've been easier to build up from them, instead of going for a new protagonist, given the hurdles already in place for a new ME game that is going to seemingly deal with the ME3 endings, their canonization, and a possible 'fusion' of the MW and Andromeda setting. I don't know how Ryder could help soften that. Familiarity? That, and having already a game from which they could build up on. In-game models and personality can change and improve, though. Shepard didn't become an iconic protagonist with one game. Again, I don't really care which direction they'll go for. But there are advantages in using a returning protagonist, even if not exactly loved. I'm not as negative as you about a new protagonist, but it'll be certainly interesting if they'll go for a new protagonist, in the sense that they'd alienate both the fans that want Shepard back, and those that want Ryder back. I'd say this: while I know that a lot of people didn't like Ryder much, it might've been easier to build up from them, instead of going for a new protagonist, given the hurdles already in place for a new ME game that is going to seemingly deal with the ME3 endings, their canonization, and a possible 'fusion' of the MW and Andromeda setting. If Shepard has taught us anything, it's that returning protagonists come with too much baggage. I don't think Shepard is really the thing that lead to the problems with the OT's endings, though. My major issue with Shepard is more due to the 'death' part in ME2, and that could've been avoided. I don't really care if we'd get Ryder or a new protagonist. I just think there are pros and cons in both approaches, and that it'll be funny that Bioware would find themselves with both kind of fans, those that want Shepard back and Ryder back, pissed at them.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 19:03:12 GMT
That, and having already a game from which they could build up on. In-game models and personality can change and improve, though. Shepard didn't become an iconic protagonist with one game. Again, I don't really care which direction they'll go for. But there are advantages in using a returning protagonist, even if not exactly loved. It depends on whether Bioware choose to continue with Ryder as the character that he is, if that can go well at all, or if they decide to rewrite him entirely to avoid the previous issues, only for the fans of Ryder to complain how that isn't their Ryder anymore. Ryder's return can have multiple drawbacks.
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The Elder King
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by The Elder King on May 31, 2021 19:04:48 GMT
That, and having already a game from which they could build up on. In-game models and personality can change and improve, though. Shepard didn't become an iconic protagonist with one game. Again, I don't really care which direction they'll go for. But there are advantages in using a returning protagonist, even if not exactly loved. It depends on whether Bioware choose to continue with Ryder as the character that he is, if that can go well at all, or if they decide to rewrite him entirely to avoid the previous issues, only for the fans of Ryder to complain how that isn't their Ryder anymore. Ryder's return can have multiple drawbacks. Indeed. As I said in another post, a returning protagonist has both pros and cons, and Ryder's mixed reception is definitely a con.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 31, 2021 19:11:28 GMT
Indeed. As I said in another post, a returning protagonist has both pros and cons, and Ryder's mixed reception is definitely a con. You can be sure, 100%, that the returning Ryder, would be nothing like the Ryder we know. Which begs the question, if the fans of Ryder are OK with that, did they even care about the character to begin with, or did they just care about the name? Because the person simply won't be the same. Like having Alden Ehrenreich be Han Solo. The name's the same, the relationships are there, but it's just not the same person. Not even close. And I don't mean in terms of looks.
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Post by Iakus on May 31, 2021 19:14:08 GMT
I don't think Shepard is really the thing that lead to the problems with the OT's endings, though. My major issue with Shepard is more due to the 'death' part in ME2, and that could've been avoided. I don't really care if we'd get Ryder or a new protagonist. I just think there are pros and cons in both approaches, and that it'll be funny that Bioware would find themselves with both kind of fans, those that want Shepard back and Ryder back, pissed at them. Not the only thing, no. But three games and five years and three games of "your choices matter" only to end up there really contributed. But it's not just the endings. It the companions, even the LIs of Shepard's getting effectively shelved from one game to the next. People were P*SSED at the treatment Liara, Kaidan, and Ashley got in ME2 (especially the latter two) and people were similarly angry at what happened to many of the ME2 companions being reduced to side missions, and not even temporary companions in ME3. Then there are other choices and missions implied to be important later which simply weren't: Getting your Spectre status back in ME2. Whether you hand the Cerberus information over to the SHadow Broker in ME1. WHo you nominate to be the human Councilor. Keeping or destroying the Collector Base. All these choices ended up being so much baggage that simply could not, or would not, be addressed.
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