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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 0:30:03 GMT
Got it, yeah that does sound dumb but might have been interesting if it had been developed further. The foundation of this plot would have been THE Mass Effect, thus making the title of the series as more relevant than anything else. Doesn't sound so dumb to me. Then you can also add that some seeds were lightly planted within the series. It would have kept things more in line than some glowing piece of shit showing up at the 11th hour and them having to create a dlc on a cool concept that was otherwise wasted because they felt the need to further justify the Catalyst mess.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 13:11:18 GMT
I read that the original ME3 ending is similar to what we have, except for a few tweaked details. Even the rough draft (leaked script pre-release) included the much loathed Catalyst, except under a different name (the Guardian), but is referenced as this name in the EC.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 15:41:38 GMT
My preference is to have - sequel to ME3 with Shepard returning - sequel to ME3 with new characters - trilogy remaster - remake ME3 the way Bioware wanted it to be had they been given enough time. - reboot the trilogy - sequel to MEA with new characters No matter what I like to have happen, Bioware will do what they want to do to tell the story they want to tell. See, this illustrates what I think is going to be the real challenge for the ME team going forward - What direction to take the franchise next.
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going. But ask 5 different ME fans where they'd want to see the game to go next, and you'll get 5 completely different answers. I have no doubt though they can make another great ME game, no matter what direction they take it. But there's also no question they're going to alienate some portion of the fandom (and they will be vocal), no matter what they do.
Time will help smooth this over a bit though, when it gets to a point where ME fans are itching for anything new.
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Post by warden on Jun 27, 2018 18:51:30 GMT
My preference is to have - sequel to ME3 with Shepard returning - sequel to ME3 with new characters - trilogy remaster - remake ME3 the way Bioware wanted it to be had they been given enough time. - reboot the trilogy - sequel to MEA with new characters No matter what I like to have happen, Bioware will do what they want to do to tell the story they want to tell.
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going.
Don't be naive, the DA fanbase is more divide than you think, though still hasn't reach that breaking point of no return like the ME one.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 18:58:08 GMT
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going.
Don't be naive, the DA fanbase is more divide than you think, though still hasn't reach that breaking point of no return like the ME one. Tevinter, Solas, the Evanuris, Ancient Elves, the war with the Qunari, Eluvians, Titans, etc., etc. - I haven't seen many who aren't onboard with this direction.
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Post by warden on Jun 27, 2018 19:02:37 GMT
Don't be naive, the DA fanbase is more divide than you think, though still hasn't reach that breaking point of no return like the ME one. Tevinter, Solas, the Evanuris, Ancient Elves, the war with the Qunari, Eluvians, Titans, etc., etc. - I haven't many who aren't onboard with this direction. Well if you roam only here (and only DA:I subforum and threads that are not about anything but lore/story) or twitter, of course you won't see it, not a surprise.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 19:04:03 GMT
Tevinter, Solas, the Evanuris, Ancient Elves, the war with the Qunari, Eluvians, Titans, etc., etc. - I haven't many who aren't onboard with this direction. Well if you roam only here (and only DA:I subforum and threads that are not about anything but lore/story) or twitter, of course you won't see it, not a surprise. Point 'em out.
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Post by warden on Jun 27, 2018 19:09:45 GMT
Well if you roam only here (and only DA:I subforum and threads that are not about anything but lore/story) or twitter, of course you won't see it, not a surprise. Point 'em out. You have Escapist forums, GameSpot Forums, NeoGaf, Reddit, IGN boards, Kotaku. And this are forums that more or less have a neutral view of all kind of games. I don't mention spanish forums because I don't think you understand the language.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 19:14:32 GMT
See, this illustrates what I think is going to be the real challenge for the ME team going forward - What direction to take the franchise next.
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going. But ask 5 different ME fans where they'd want to see the game to go next, and you'll get 5 completely different answers. I have no doubt though they can make another great ME game, no matter what direction they take it. But there's also no question they're going to alienate some portion of the fandom (and they will be vocal), no matter what they do.
Time will help smooth this over a bit though, when it gets to a point where ME fans are itching for anything new. Any franchise will alienate its fanbase with each new game, movie, book, etc, they decide to make. Let's be honest, in the world of capitalism, Bioware makes games for whoever wants to buy and play them. They do not make games solely for their fanbase, which is shrinking with each new game being released. Another reason I know they don't listen and do whatever the fans want (instead of doing what is good for the whole) is because when asked for a sequel or prequel before making Andromeda, when Casey said sequel, people assumed that meant you'd get a sequel to ME3 that would somehow undo or soften the damage from the ending. It didn't. Technically Andromeda takes place before ME3, but not after ME3. It's essentially neither a prequel or sequel.
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 20:02:21 GMT
You have Escapist forums, GameSpot Forums, NeoGaf, Reddit, IGN boards, Kotaku. And this are forums that more or less have a neutral view of all kind of games. I don't mention spanish forums because I don't think you understand the language. With the exception of NeoGaf and the Escapist forums, I am either on or read the others. The things that regularly show up as complaints isn't the story direction for DA4.
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Post by warden on Jun 27, 2018 20:07:17 GMT
You have Escapist forums, GameSpot Forums, NeoGaf, Reddit, IGN boards, Kotaku. And this are forums that more or less have a neutral view of all kind of games. I don't mention spanish forums because I don't think you understand the language. With the exception of NeoGaf and the Escapist forums, I am either on or read the others. The things that regularly show up as complaints isn't the story direction for DA4. So you are only talking about story? I was talking about the series in general, though as far as story goes, i've seen from "let's see" to become "even more generic" nothing really that stands out as "woah yeah, looking forward to it" or "eager to see it".
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2018 20:13:00 GMT
See, this illustrates what I think is going to be the real challenge for the ME team going forward - What direction to take the franchise next.
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going. But ask 5 different ME fans where they'd want to see the game to go next, and you'll get 5 completely different answers. I have no doubt though they can make another great ME game, no matter what direction they take it. But there's also no question they're going to alienate some portion of the fandom (and they will be vocal), no matter what they do.
Time will help smooth this over a bit though, when it gets to a point where ME fans are itching for anything new. Any franchise will alienate its fanbase with each new game, movie, book, etc, they decide to make. Let's be honest, in the world of capitalism, Bioware makes games for whoever wants to buy and play them. They do not make games solely for their fanbase, which is shrinking with each new game being released. Another reason I know they don't listen and do whatever the fans want (instead of doing what is good for the whole) is because when asked for a sequel or prequel before making Andromeda, when Casey said sequel, people assumed that meant you'd get a sequel to ME3 that would somehow undo or soften the damage from the ending. It didn't. Technically Andromeda takes place before ME3, but not after ME3. It's essentially neither a prequel or sequel. They painted themselves into a corner with ME3, and if they had undone it, who knows what the response would have been. Not pretty I'd imagine, but compared to Andromeda's reception - who knows? But hindsight's 20/20 and you can see why they went the route they did. I thought the idea had promise. And I seem to remember him saying that a prequel was not what people wanted.
But Mark said last month that DA:I was BioWare's best selling game (of all their games) - full stop. So at least that franchise is growing, and hopefully they can carry that momentum going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 20:15:02 GMT
Any franchise will alienate its fanbase with each new game, movie, book, etc, they decide to make. Let's be honest, in the world of capitalism, Bioware makes games for whoever wants to buy and play them. They do not make games solely for their fanbase, which is shrinking with each new game being released. Another reason I know they don't listen and do whatever the fans want (instead of doing what is good for the whole) is because when asked for a sequel or prequel before making Andromeda, when Casey said sequel, people assumed that meant you'd get a sequel to ME3 that would somehow undo or soften the damage from the ending. It didn't. Technically Andromeda takes place before ME3, but not after ME3. It's essentially neither a prequel or sequel. They painted themselves into a corner with ME3, and if they had undone it, who knows what the response would have been. Not pretty I'd imagine, but compared to Andromeda's reception - who knows? But hindsight's 20/20 and you can see why they went the route they did. I thought the idea had promise. And I seem to remember him saying that a prequel was not what people wanted.
But Mark said last month that DA:I was BioWare's best selling game (of all their games) - full stop. So at least that franchise is growing, and hopefully they can carry that momentum going forward.
How did they paint themselves into a corner, when they've always said that ME3 was the end to Shepard's story? End of the trilogy? There wasn't any more games to come out of Shepard's story or the Reapers essentially afterwards. What happened was the writing stopped because the story (trilogy) was over.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2018 1:54:13 GMT
See, this illustrates what I think is going to be the real challenge for the ME team going forward - What direction to take the franchise next.
On the one hand you have the DA fans who are, for the most part, solidly onboard with the direction the series is going. But ask 5 different ME fans where they'd want to see the game to go next, and you'll get 5 completely different answers. I have no doubt though they can make another great ME game, no matter what direction they take it. But there's also no question they're going to alienate some portion of the fandom (and they will be vocal), no matter what they do.
Time will help smooth this over a bit though, when it gets to a point where ME fans are itching for anything new. Any franchise will alienate its fanbase with each new game, movie, book, etc, they decide to make. Let's be honest, in the world of capitalism, Bioware makes games for whoever wants to buy and play them. They do not make games solely for their fanbase, which is shrinking with each new game being released. Another reason I know they don't listen and do whatever the fans want (instead of doing what is good for the whole) is because when asked for a sequel or prequel before making Andromeda, when Casey said sequel, people assumed that meant you'd get a sequel to ME3 that would somehow undo or soften the damage from the ending. It didn't. Technically Andromeda takes place before ME3, but not after ME3. It's essentially neither a prequel or sequel. They’ve still got fans. They’ve got good fans and fans that expect them to make what they want. Those fans will never be happy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 3:43:18 GMT
Do you remember when they said "we want the Call of Duty audience"? Kind of like how other games like WoW have tried to make the game more casual only to get roasted by the long-time playerbase. Or how ME3 was a good place to start, because they designed the third game in a way where you didn't need to play the first two.
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Post by Ascend on Jun 28, 2018 11:58:18 GMT
Do you remember when they said "we want the Call of Duty audience"? Kind of like how other games like WoW have tried to make the game more casual only to get roasted by the long-time playerbase. Or how ME3 was a good place to start, because they designed the third game in a way where you didn't need to play the first two. It's generally a mistake to go after a large audience specifically. Generally it is better to create something with passion and let the large audience find you. And that's a conundrum for the industry because you have to cater to your investors so you can fund the game. So convincing them generally entails telling them how you're going to draw in more and more players. Obviously, that isn't working. More and more studios are being closed, we have more and more angry players for multiple reasons, and AAA sales barely ever are meeting expectations. But the publishers must let the investors understand something. You will never specifically get the audience you're looking for. It's not like the first COD Modern Warfare was really targeting a specific audience. It happened to attract a huge audience, and it was by accident. Good luck trying to find what exactly it was that did this. They tried the same thing with all their following games, and all failed compared to the first two Modern Warfare titles. None of the others did as well. The name carried the games for a while, but ultimately, I don't wanna say it died, but certainly the brand and its name has lost a lot of momentum, where even the biggest passionate fans now respond to the same name with a simple 'meh'. I'm not saying not to know your audience. I'm saying you're better off doing specific things extremely well rather than trying to do everything to please everyone. Andromeda tried to do exactly the latter, which is why it is ok-ish at almost everything and great at practically nothing. It makes it a dull experience. Compare that to Mass Effect 1, which had an amazing plot, but mediocre everything else. Or Mass Effect 2, which even though already started to go in the direction of mass appeal (no pun intended), had amazing characters and polish but lacked depth and consistency on multiple fronts. Most great games are not amazing at everything. They happen to have one single or a couple of amazing things that overshadow all its downsides to a degree where it touches a large audience. It's no secret that I personally think ME2 is overrated, but what it did do well was enough to make it the most popular Mass Effect game out there. Will the likes of EA understand that? I doubt it. Ubisoft however, whatever their reputation, they seem to understand, or at least understand more than EA does at this point in time. Why do you think they announced Skull & Bones? There's a small audience that loved the naval combat of Assassin's Creed. Rather than requiring all Assassin's Creed to cater to all their prior fans, they created Skull & Bones to perfect/improve that specific experience and appeal to that specific audience. If they succeed, I bet it will find a much larger audience than just those Assassin's Creed fans. Rather than trying to force-fit the naval combat into every Assassin's Creed game which ultimately severely limits creativity for that game, or, risking complaints by angry fans and bad PR of this specific feature missing from upcoming Assassin's Creed games, they solved it by creating a separate game altogether. This allows them to do what they want with the Assassin's Creed franchise, while still not losing the audience that specifically loved the naval combat. I hope that BioWare and EA can realize this, and re-focus the Mass Effect series.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2018 17:11:06 GMT
Do you remember when they said "we want the Call of Duty audience"? Kind of like how other games like WoW have tried to make the game more casual only to get roasted by the long-time playerbase. Or how ME3 was a good place to start, because they designed the third game in a way where you didn't need to play the first two. It's generally a mistake to go after a large audience specifically. Generally it is better to create something with passion and let the large audience find you. And that's a conundrum for the industry because you have to cater to your investors so you can fund the game. So convincing them generally entails telling them how you're going to draw in more and more players. Obviously, that isn't working. More and more studios are being closed, we have more and more angry players for multiple reasons, and AAA sales barely ever are meeting expectations. But the publishers must let the investors understand something. You will never specifically get the audience you're looking for. It's not like the first COD Modern Warfare was really targeting a specific audience. It happened to attract a huge audience, and it was by accident. Good luck trying to find what exactly it was that did this. They tried the same thing with all their following games, and all failed compared to the first two Modern Warfare titles. None of the others did as well. The name carried the games for a while, but ultimately, I don't wanna say it died, but certainly the brand and its name has lost a lot of momentum, where even the biggest passionate fans now respond to the same name with a simple 'meh'. I'm not saying not to know your audience. I'm saying you're better off doing specific things extremely well rather than trying to do everything to please everyone. Andromeda tried to do exactly the latter, which is why it is ok-ish at almost everything and great at practically nothing. It makes it a dull experience. Compare that to Mass Effect 1, which had an amazing plot, but mediocre everything else. Or Mass Effect 2, which even though already started to go in the direction of mass appeal (no pun intended), had amazing characters and polish but lacked depth and consistency on multiple fronts. Most great games are not amazing at everything. They happen to have one single or a couple of amazing things that overshadow all its downsides to a degree where it touches a large audience. It's no secret that I personally think ME2 is overrated, but what it did do well was enough to make it the most popular Mass Effect game out there. Will the likes of EA understand that? I doubt it. Ubisoft however, whatever their reputation, they seem to understand, or at least understand more than EA does at this point in time. Why do you think they announced Skull & Bones? There's a small audience that loved the naval combat of Assassin's Creed. Rather than requiring all Assassin's Creed to cater to all their prior fans, they created Skull & Bones to perfect/improve that specific experience and appeal to that specific audience. If they succeed, I bet it will find a much larger audience than just those Assassin's Creed fans. Rather than trying to force-fit the naval combat into every Assassin's Creed game which ultimately severely limits creativity for that game, or, risking complaints by angry fans and bad PR of this specific feature missing from upcoming Assassin's Creed games, they solved it by creating a separate game altogether. This allows them to do what they want with the Assassin's Creed franchise, while still not losing the audience that specifically loved the naval combat. I hope that BioWare and EA can realize this, and re-focus the Mass Effect series. They don’t need to refocus anything. It’s fine as is.
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Post by Ascend on Jun 28, 2018 19:23:55 GMT
They don’t need to refocus anything. It’s fine as is. No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2018 19:26:38 GMT
They don’t need to refocus anything. It’s fine as is. No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist. It’s not just my opinion. And don’t use metacritic as an example. First off ME3’s problem is the same as Andromeda’s. Entitled whiny brats who didn’t get what they wanted. Yes Andromeda has technical issues at launch but other than that it’s a great game.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 28, 2018 20:20:00 GMT
No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist. It’s not just my opinion. And don’t use metacritic as an example. First off ME3’s problem is the same as Andromeda’s. Entitled whiny brats who didn’t get what they wanted. Yes Andromeda has technical issues at launch but other than that it’s a great game. I'm just glad you're not a front-facing game developer.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ascend on Jun 28, 2018 20:20:53 GMT
No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist. It’s not just my opinion. And don’t use metacritic as an example. First off ME3’s problem is the same as Andromeda’s. Entitled whiny brats who didn’t get what they wanted. Yes Andromeda has technical issues at launch but other than that it’s a great game. The main relevant 'example' here is what happened to the Montreal studio and the shelving of the Mass Effect franchise. Andromeda was and is underrated, but I'd hardly call it a great game.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 28, 2018 20:23:05 GMT
It’s not just my opinion. And don’t use metacritic as an example. First off ME3’s problem is the same as Andromeda’s. Entitled whiny brats who didn’t get what they wanted. Yes Andromeda has technical issues at launch but other than that it’s a great game. I'm just glad you're not a front-facing game developer. I’m glad you’re not either.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 23:29:31 GMT
No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist. I believe the ME3 ending is bad if viewed at face value. There are plot holes and inconsistencies as big as the Grand Canyon. As for Andromeda, the only thing that really peeved me was the game breaking bugs. Didn't care about the facial animations. You're right, they aren't the greatest, but they aren't the worst I've ever seen either. As for your last point. Some people have had Bioware's tombstone ordered since they joined EA. That was what, 2007, or so?
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Post by x19dude95 on Jun 29, 2018 0:53:16 GMT
What would the story about if shep was to be the lead again. His story is done
i want to know if anyone has an idea cause it’s seems like child hope
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 3:59:27 GMT
I'd like to know, just out of curiosity, who would the antagonist be? Plot doesn't make much sense. Who would we be fighting against?
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