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Post by Ascend on Jun 29, 2018 11:29:09 GMT
No it's not fine as it is. They are making crucial mistakes. There was the ME3 ending for starters, and well, Andromeda was not well received at all, despite what your personal opinion of that game might be. It has put many people on the fence regarding Anthem, while they would have simply been extremely excited before Andromeda and ME3. Not to mention the industry has evolved. Make no mistake. If Anthem is received like Andromeda was, BioWare can literally seize to exist. I believe the ME3 ending is bad if viewed at face value. There are plot holes and inconsistencies as big as the Grand Canyon. As for Andromeda, the only thing that really peeved me was the game breaking bugs. Didn't care about the facial animations. You're right, they aren't the greatest, but they aren't the worst I've ever seen either. As for your last point. Some people have had Bioware's tombstone ordered since they joined EA. That was what, 2007, or so? Indeed. But the point is that the amount of people doing that is growing, not shrinking. BioWare did well enough without those people after joining EA. Many people played Mass Effect 2 as their first BioWare game, and that crowd you don't want to completely lose. |
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 29, 2018 11:45:12 GMT
I believe the ME3 ending is bad if viewed at face value. There are plot holes and inconsistencies as big as the Grand Canyon. As for Andromeda, the only thing that really peeved me was the game breaking bugs. Didn't care about the facial animations. You're right, they aren't the greatest, but they aren't the worst I've ever seen either. As for your last point. Some people have had Bioware's tombstone ordered since they joined EA. That was what, 2007, or so? Indeed. But the point is that the amount of people doing that is growing, not shrinking. BioWare did well enough without those people after joining EA. Many people played Mass Effect 2 as their first BioWare game, and that crowd you don't want to completely lose. It's not ME2 that's the big first BioWare game for people, the majority's first BioWare game are going to be ME3 or DAI which both outsold ME2 by a big margin. Like double what ME2 sold terriotory - DAI was prob triple. It wouldn't surprise me if MEA sold more than ME2 too (unfortunately EA has moved away from giving sales numbers for all their games so it's really hard to be sure - most of the data comes from off hand remarks by devs). ME2 consumers (and this is assuming they were all buying BioWare's later games) aren't that big a proportion of the audience - it's the newbies of ME3 and even more newbies in DA!. |
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Post by Ascend on Jun 29, 2018 13:35:46 GMT
Indeed. But the point is that the amount of people doing that is growing, not shrinking. BioWare did well enough without those people after joining EA. Many people played Mass Effect 2 as their first BioWare game, and that crowd you don't want to completely lose. It's not ME2 that's the big first BioWare game for people, the majority's first BioWare game are going to be ME3 or DAI which both outsold ME2 by a big margin. Like double what ME2 sold terriotory - DAI was prob triple. It wouldn't surprise me if MEA sold more than ME2 too (unfortunately EA has moved away from giving sales numbers for all their games so it's really hard to be sure - most of the data comes from off hand remarks by devs). ME2 consumers (and this is assuming they were all buying BioWare's later games) aren't that big a proportion of the audience - it's the newbies of ME3 and even more newbies in DA!. I didn't say ME2 was the biggest. I said that after BioWare joined EA, the ones that decided to stonewall because of this change didn't really cripple the company. They still did well with ME2 and many people became fans of BioWare at that point, and obviously afterwards as well. However, Mass Effect 3 did better than Mass Effect Andromeda, and this indicates a change in trend, with more people dropping out than joining in rather than the opposite (which happened with DA2, DAI and ME3). If this trend continues, it can cripple the company. Again, there's a reason Mass Effect was shelved and the studio responsible was downsized and merged with Motive Studios. In other words, BioWare as a company has already been downsized once, just after being expanded. Sorry for the confusion. |
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 29, 2018 13:55:11 GMT
It's not ME2 that's the big first BioWare game for people, the majority's first BioWare game are going to be ME3 or DAI which both outsold ME2 by a big margin. Like double what ME2 sold terriotory - DAI was prob triple. It wouldn't surprise me if MEA sold more than ME2 too (unfortunately EA has moved away from giving sales numbers for all their games so it's really hard to be sure - most of the data comes from off hand remarks by devs). ME2 consumers (and this is assuming they were all buying BioWare's later games) aren't that big a proportion of the audience - it's the newbies of ME3 and even more newbies in DA!. I didn't say ME2 was the biggest. I said that after BioWare joined EA, the ones that decided to stonewall because of this change didn't really cripple the company. They still did well with ME2 and many people became fans of BioWare at that point, and obviously afterwards as well. However, Mass Effect 3 did better than Mass Effect Andromeda, and this indicates a change in trend, with more people dropping out than joining in rather than the opposite (which happened with DA2, DAI and ME3). If this trend continues, it can cripple the company. Again, there's a reason Mass Effect was shelved and the studio responsible was downsized and merged with Motive Studios. In other words, BioWare as a company has already been downsized once, just after being expanded. Sorry for the confusion. They merged one division but have been expanding in the two other sucessful ones - they are even moving to a bigger site in Edmonton. As a whole it seems BioWares expanding. Alot of this seems more to do with how development went in Montreal - you'll note they started moving devs into Motive as soon as MEA released which means it was planned to happen irrespective of the reception of MEA. I'll also note we do not know how MEA did compared to ME3 as we do not have the numbers, though I suspect it did not do as well (though we know it was financially sucessful from EA Investor Reports) - we only recently found out DAi was more sucessful then ME3 and that was from an off-hand remark from Mark Darrah's twitter. One game which was financially sucessful that did not do quite as well as ME3 and DAI, one of which one GOTY, the other an ending to a trilogy, is not really that big a problem in the grand scheme of things for BioWare as a whole - if Anthem and DA4 also decreased sales (very unlikely) then we could say there's a problem going on. |
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Post by Ascend on Jun 29, 2018 15:46:34 GMT
^Fair enough. I doubt the shelving of Andromeda was planned though. But in any case, Anthem will likely do well, and I do hope it does.
Mass Effect "5" is a long way off still, and I'm sure Anthem and Dragon Age "4" will be a huge influence on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 16:39:06 GMT
I believe the ME3 ending is bad if viewed at face value. There are plot holes and inconsistencies as big as the Grand Canyon. As for Andromeda, the only thing that really peeved me was the game breaking bugs. Didn't care about the facial animations. You're right, they aren't the greatest, but they aren't the worst I've ever seen either. As for your last point. Some people have had Bioware's tombstone ordered since they joined EA. That was what, 2007, or so? Indeed. But the point is that the amount of people doing that is growing, not shrinking. BioWare did well enough without those people after joining EA. Many people played Mass Effect 2 as their first BioWare game, and that crowd you don't want to completely lose. I'm certainly in this boat. Bought ME2 back in June 2010. Before then I was a WoW addict. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 29, 2018 21:57:59 GMT
^Fair enough. I doubt the shelving of Andromeda was planned though. But in any case, Anthem will likely do well, and I do hope it does. Mass Effect "5" is a long way off still, and I'm sure Anthem and Dragon Age "4" will be a huge influence on it. No I don’t think it was. As much as I want Andromeda 2 and not really a fan of going back to the MW I don’t want ME to die. |
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 10, 2018 3:44:22 GMT
I prefer if they left it alone until they learn from their mistakes, stop making excuses to avoid responsibility for poor quality, inconsistency, and incompetence.
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Post by lavigne on Jul 16, 2018 11:21:12 GMT
At this point I think I'd just like them to remaster the trilogy.
I enjoyed Andromeda on the first play through, but barely got into the second and I was bored. Still, it's a shame that there wasn't any DLC, I'd happily have paid for it in order to extend the experience. No, it wasn't GREAT, but it was decent enough (if you could live with the initial glitches).
The setting, away from the MW didn't particularly bother me, but TBH, my preference would be to return to the MW.
Given the reception that MEA got, and dependent on how Anthem and DA4 fare, we may well see BW running to safe ground with ME:Next, so I wouldn't definitively rule out a return to Shepard, somehow. It's 6 years since ME3 dropped - it'll be another 4/5 I'd guess until we get another ME - screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 11:30:54 GMT
I enjoyed Andromeda on the first play through, but barely got into the second and I was bored. Still, it's a shame that there wasn't any DLC, I'd happily have paid for it in order to extend the experience. No, it wasn't GREAT, but it was decent enough (if you could live with the initial glitches). The setting, away from the MW didn't particularly bother me, but TBH, my preference would be to return to the MW. . Same for me, I enjoyed it first time round but I couldn't wait to be done with it second time round. The main issue for me is that I'm just not invested in the Andromeda Initiative, the Nexus, the Kett, Angara or Jaardan. I don't really care what happens next. Now the Turians, Krogan, Salarians etc, I'm way more interested in that. |
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Post by lavigne on Jul 16, 2018 12:00:25 GMT
The main issue for me is that I'm just not invested in the Andromeda Initiative, the Nexus, the Kett, Angara or Jaardan. I don't really care what happens next. Now the Turians, Krogan, Salarians etc, I'm way more interested in that. Yeah, I can't argue with that. I was fine with the Initiative, and I guess it was inevitable that there would be new antagonists and protagonists, but they were pale imitations of what we have back in the MW. I know they were new, compared to three games' worth of development, but hell, the Turians, Krogans, Asari, Quarians et al were all way more interesting in ME1 alone. Not getting the Quarian DLC in MEA was also a kick in the gut. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 16, 2018 17:04:28 GMT
At this point I think I'd just like them to remaster the trilogy. I enjoyed Andromeda on the first play through, but barely got into the second and I was bored. Still, it's a shame that there wasn't any DLC, I'd happily have paid for it in order to extend the experience. No, it wasn't GREAT, but it was decent enough (if you could live with the initial glitches). The setting, away from the MW didn't particularly bother me, but TBH, my preference would be to return to the MW. Given the reception that MEA got, and dependent on how Anthem and DA4 fare, we may well see BW running to safe ground with ME:Next, so I wouldn't definitively rule out a return to Shepard, somehow. It's 6 years since ME3 dropped - it'll be another 4/5 I'd guess until we get another ME - screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point. If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. |
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Post by warden on Jul 16, 2018 17:06:23 GMT
At this point I think I'd just like them to remaster the trilogy. I enjoyed Andromeda on the first play through, but barely got into the second and I was bored. Still, it's a shame that there wasn't any DLC, I'd happily have paid for it in order to extend the experience. No, it wasn't GREAT, but it was decent enough (if you could live with the initial glitches). The setting, away from the MW didn't particularly bother me, but TBH, my preference would be to return to the MW. Given the reception that MEA got, and dependent on how Anthem and DA4 fare, we may well see BW running to safe ground with ME:Next, so I wouldn't definitively rule out a return to Shepard, somehow. It's 6 years since ME3 dropped - it'll be another 4/5 I'd guess until we get another ME - screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point. If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. good riddance. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 16, 2018 17:33:39 GMT
If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. If Bioware chooses to bring Shepard back for another game, I would not be surprised if you get the game, at a discount, if the story ends up being alright and to see the characters you like, not Shepard since you've posted you don't like him/her. For me, it would be a preorder. I might even get the collectors edition.  At the moment, I can't come up with anything that would prevent me from buying any future ME game. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 16, 2018 17:38:52 GMT
If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. If Bioware chooses to bring Shepard back for another game, I would not be surprised if you get the game, at a discount, if the story ends up being alright and to see the characters you like, not Shepard since you've posted you don't like him/her. For me, it would be a preorder. I might even get the collectors edition.  At the moment, I can't come up with anything that would prevent me from buying any future ME game. Considering how the characters can end up in ME3, I doubt they would show up in ME4. Heck my favorite companion is dead no matter what and my favorite romance was all but completely ignored. Also I don't dislike Shepard, they just aren't my favorite Bioware protagonist due to hoe predefined they were made in later games. |
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Post by themikefest on Jul 16, 2018 17:46:22 GMT
If they bring Shepard back, it wouldn't be hard to bring some of the characters back. Some that don't show up would be easy to explain for not being in the next game.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 16, 2018 19:07:15 GMT
Given the reception that MEA got, and dependent on how Anthem and DA4 fare, we may well see BW running to safe ground with ME:Next, so I wouldn't definitively rule out a return to Shepard, somehow. It's 6 years since ME3 dropped - it'll be another 4/5 I'd guess until we get another ME - screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point. If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. Yeah, that's the worst possible solution. Picking a canon ending and bringing back Shepard makes the canon problem even worse, since now the canon ending is simply not going to fit many of our Shepards. Mere canonization doesn't mean that we have to play with a PC which isn't ours. |
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Post by Iakus on Jul 16, 2018 21:26:13 GMT
At this point I think I'd just like them to remaster the trilogy. I enjoyed Andromeda on the first play through, but barely got into the second and I was bored. Still, it's a shame that there wasn't any DLC, I'd happily have paid for it in order to extend the experience. No, it wasn't GREAT, but it was decent enough (if you could live with the initial glitches). The setting, away from the MW didn't particularly bother me, but TBH, my preference would be to return to the MW. Given the reception that MEA got, and dependent on how Anthem and DA4 fare, we may well see BW running to safe ground with ME:Next, so I wouldn't definitively rule out a return to Shepard, somehow. It's 6 years since ME3 dropped - it'll be another 4/5 I'd guess until we get another ME - screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point. If they go back to Shepard with a canon ending, they lose me as a Mass Effect customer. That is far more of an insult and a bad move than people like to claim Andromeda was. It's not just the fate of Shepard, though, it's the fate of the galaxy. I would not want to play in any of the settings of RGB (or the Yellow one) |
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Post by Ascend on Jul 17, 2018 12:21:03 GMT
Screw it, just pick a canon ending to ME3 and go from there. I know the reasons why they didn't do that originally, but enough time has passed now, and picking an 'official' ending isn't going to rain on too many parades at this point. Actually it will be huge if they do this, and not in a good way. People are going to be more pissed than you can imagine. The trilogy is dear to many many people, and picking a canon ending will let practically everyone feel their choices didn't matter at all... So why play something where all your choices were ignored? The amount of time passed will not change this, at all. The original trilogy needs to be left behind. That story is done, there is no purpose continuing it. The best thing they could have done is... Andromeda, where events are completely isolated from the original trilogy. Too bad the execution left so much to be desired. Either that, or a prequel. If they ever reboot/remake/refresh the original trilogy, they might have the opportunity to change a few things, including the ending of ME3, but the trilogy must always remain a trilogy. Shepard's story has come full circle within the trilogy, and extending it will likely have the same result as what is happening with Star Wars right now. |
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Post by lavigne on Jul 17, 2018 14:50:33 GMT
Ok, so clearly it IS still a touchy subject.  I accept that not everyone would be happy with them going with a canon ending, but anecdotally, didn't something like 80-90% of the game-playing population go with DESTROY? I don't know, the way that MEA's played out, I just don't see them NOT running to safe ground with the next one. Somehow. Another MEA-type performance could kill the series, so I don't see them taking too many risks. As I said, my preference would be a return to the MW. Prequel, side-quel, alternate timeline, remake, whatever. A remake of the first game, with new mechanics, graphics etc might be a way to dip a toe back in... |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 17, 2018 15:09:01 GMT
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be perfectly happy for them to use a specific post-ME3 worldstate for a sequel. As long as I'm playing a new character, it doesn't matter what that worldstate's Shepard did. He wouldn't invalidate my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other.
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Post by Ascend on Jul 17, 2018 15:38:12 GMT
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be perfectly happy for them to use a specific post-ME3 worldstate for a sequel. As long as I'm playing a new character, it doesn't matter what that worldstate's Shepard did. He wouldn't invalidate my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other. If they create it as a spin-off, maybe I'd be ok with it. The implications of the ending is too big though. It's the difference between having no reapers, having reapers help with everything, or having everyone and everything be an Adam Jensen so to speak. (Or living in the next cycle since Shepard failed). They're better off staying away from it. Things have been touchy lately, and the less drama BioWare can attract to themselves the better. |
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 17, 2018 16:16:22 GMT
I don't really feel an issue there. Sure, the ME3 final worldstates are very divergent, and were so even before we got to the ending. But... so what? Any particular universe only had one Shepard in it who made one set of choices. If I'm not playing her, I don't need to have control over what she did.
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 18, 2018 14:47:39 GMT
Ok, so clearly it IS still a touchy subject. I accept that not everyone would be happy with them going with a canon ending, but anecdotally, didn't something like 80-90% of the game-playing population go with DESTROY? I don't know, the way that MEA's played out, I just don't see them NOT running to safe ground with the next one. Somehow. Another MEA-type performance could kill the series, so I don't see them taking too many risks. As I said, my preference would be a return to the MW. Prequel, side-quel, alternate timeline, remake, whatever. A remake of the first game, with new mechanics, graphics etc might be a way to dip a toe back in... And a ton of customers would be lost. A spin off I could possibly live with but not this. |
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Post by griffith82 on Jul 18, 2018 14:49:56 GMT
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be perfectly happy for them to use a specific post-ME3 worldstate for a sequel. As long as I'm playing a new character, it doesn't matter what that worldstate's Shepard did. He wouldn't invalidate my Shepards any more than they invalidate each other. If they create it as a spin-off, maybe I'd be ok with it. The implications of the ending is too big though. It's the difference between having no reapers, having reapers help with everything, or having everyone and everything be an Adam Jensen so to speak. (Or living in the next cycle since Shepard failed). They're better off staying away from it. Things have been touchy lately, and the less drama BioWare can attract to themselves the better. Agreed. I would much prefer a sequel to Andromeda but I could potential live with a spin-off. Maybe one pre reaper war with the Protheans. |
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