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Post by souljahbill14 on Aug 24, 2018 1:43:16 GMT
Is "alive" the sort of thing you can be more or less of? I thought it was binary.
What is the third principle of sentient life? The capacity for self-sacrifice. Both EDI and Legion are willing to sacrifice themselves for others, and Legion actually does so. That makes them sentient creatures - alive. I seriously doubt a Reaper ever even thought of the possibility for self-sacrifice, let alone considered doing it. It's not part of their programming, and they've had millions if not billions of years to consider it. They have no problem sacrificing others though.
So when Legion asked if he had a soul, do you believe he did?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2018 1:48:30 GMT
Why would that ever happen? Even if the Sheplyst went bad, wouldn't it go bad in its own way? Does it matter the form, if the function becomes the same? I don't think it is inevitable that ControlShep becomes StarBrat 2.0, but it is a possibility that many have considered. That it is a possibility, is enough for me. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as the saying goes. So Starbrat 2.0 is just an absurdly unlikely sub-case of a possible situation?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2018 1:49:10 GMT
In my experience it's only Destroy fans who are rabidly intolerant of the other options. I don't see why canonized Destroy would cause a mass freakout. Which is exactly why destroy must not be canonized. I don't see what you're getting at here.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 24, 2018 1:50:08 GMT
If that happens riots will happen. Cannonizing that ending would be a huge mistake. In my experience it's only Destroy fans who are rabidly intolerant of the other options. I don't see why canonized Destroy would cause a mass freakout. I'd hate any cannonized ending as I pick all 3.
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Post by ahglock on Aug 24, 2018 1:57:51 GMT
That's right. Because of that, there will be an ME4 trailer released in 2021 with a scene showing femshep on Earth standing on hill seeing the amount of destruction the reapers caused before they were destroyed. Jennifer Hale will be narrating the trailer. This forum will have many, many posters responding to the trailer and there will be many threads created. One of the things that will talked about the most will be the endings to ME3. If that happens riots will happen. Cannonizing that ending would be a huge mistake. If by riots you mean a couple hundred people on the internet get mad, sure. Vast majority of players never cared. And out of the people who did care, most of them don't anymore. If MEA was well received it might be a different conversation. This forum has what 10,000 members but how many participate in the ME forums 30, 40? Most have moved on.
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Post by melbella on Aug 24, 2018 2:16:10 GMT
What is the third principle of sentient life? The capacity for self-sacrifice. Both EDI and Legion are willing to sacrifice themselves for others, and Legion actually does so. That makes them sentient creatures - alive. I seriously doubt a Reaper ever even thought of the possibility for self-sacrifice, let alone considered doing it. It's not part of their programming, and they've had millions if not billions of years to consider it. They have no problem sacrificing others though.
So when Legion asked if he had a soul, do you believe he did?
Since I'm not sure humans have souls, I guess the answer would be no. But I agree with the sentiment behind a yes answer.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2018 2:18:33 GMT
That's right. Because of that, there will be an ME4 trailer released in 2021 with a scene showing femshep on Earth standing on hill seeing the amount of destruction the reapers caused before they were destroyed. Jennifer Hale will be narrating the trailer. This forum will have many, many posters responding to the trailer and there will be many threads created. One of the things that will talked about the most will be the endings to ME3. If that happens riots will happen. Cannonizing that ending would be a huge mistake.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 2:27:34 GMT
In my experience it's only Destroy fans who are rabidly intolerant of the other options. I don't see why canonized Destroy would cause a mass freakout. I'd hate any cannonized ending as I pick all 3. I think it's worth having all the options. In a sense, it's giving us player choice, it's just that the choices mostly have nothing to do with our actions prior to this point.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 2:29:43 GMT
So when Legion asked if he had a soul, do you believe he did?
Since I'm not sure humans have souls, I guess the answer would be no. But I agree with the sentiment behind a yes answer.
I also don't believe it has a soul, but I do believe it has a sentience that is equivalent to any organic thinking being and deserves to be treated as such.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 24, 2018 2:46:22 GMT
Aulë made Dwarves, not Eru. Do dwarves not have a soul? Soul is a pretty abstract concept, so I go to consciousness. If something is self-aware, does it matter what the name of the "God" was that made it? Legion was alive. Legion contemplated things. Machines don't contemplate. Interesting that ants have become the unworthy non-being worthy of hate. Their society is amazing, and we have no idea what goes on in their minds. Human arrogance, it is never in short supply
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Post by Ascend on Aug 24, 2018 2:59:32 GMT
Which is exactly why destroy must not be canonized. I don't see what you're getting at here. The most intolerant should not be pandered to.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 3:29:49 GMT
Interesting that ants have become the unworthy non-being worthy of hate. Their society is amazing, and we have no idea what goes on in their minds. Fuck ants. We should be burning them with our magnifying glasses.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2018 5:11:43 GMT
In my experience it's only Destroy fans who are rabidly intolerant of the other options. I don't see why canonized Destroy would cause a mass freakout. I'd hate any cannonized ending as I pick all 3. So do I, but I don't see the problem. In any given ME5 universe only one Shepard will exist. The fact that this Shepard isn't one of mine doesn't strike me as being of any particular concern. If the game had a save import most of my Shepards still wouldn't exist in that universe. What's one less?
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2018 5:16:56 GMT
I don't see what you're getting at here. The most intolerant should not be pandered to. Ideally? No. But the fanbase is what it is. If you can't do a save import and support everything, and you still want to continue in the MW, then you should use Destroy because it's the most marketable option.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 15:20:24 GMT
Does it matter the form, if the function becomes the same? I don't think it is inevitable that ControlShep becomes StarBrat 2.0, but it is a possibility that many have considered. That it is a possibility, is enough for me. Absolute power corrupts absolutely as the saying goes. So Starbrat 2.0 is just an absurdly unlikely sub-case of a possible situation? I wouldn't say Shepard will become Starbrat 2.0. I think Shepard knows enough to understand that organic/synthetic war is not inevitable. Shepard would also now be aware that the zha'til and even the geth only rebelled because the Reapers made them do it. It's significant to understand that.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 24, 2018 16:37:53 GMT
The most intolerant should not be pandered to. Ideally? No. But the fanbase is what it is. If you can't do a save import and support everything, and you still want to continue in the MW, then you should use Destroy because it's the most marketable option. I pick "Destroy" 99% of the time but, honestly, I'd be fine with any ending as long as the writing is good. I think you have the easiest path to canonize either "Destroy" or "Control" ending while I just can't really conceptualize a post-"Synthesis" ending that would allow you to continue the story post-trilogy. Just my opinion but I believe for them to truly position themselves for more games in the Milky Way they would need to: - Remaster the trilogy (maybe even remake the combat, inventory and upgrading system in ME1) - Add additional scenes and dialogue to everything that happened after you got hit by Harbinger and stumbled into the Citadel beam - Make more distinction between EMS consequences - including the "breath scene" - and make the "Extended Cut" fully integrated into the final disc as opposed to a DLC It would be a lot of work and I'm sure not BioWare would want to devore the necessary resources to accomplish it. Alternatively, they could just do a quick remaster, release them with all DLC included and just make a blunt statement "Destroy/Control/Synthesis" is canon"
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Post by sil on Aug 24, 2018 17:52:05 GMT
Ideally? No. But the fanbase is what it is. If you can't do a save import and support everything, and you still want to continue in the MW, then you should use Destroy because it's the most marketable option. I pick "Destroy" 99% of the time but, honestly, I'd be fine with any ending as long as the writing is good. I think you have the easiest path to canonize either "Destroy" or "Control" ending while I just can't really conceptualize a post-"Synthesis" ending that would allow you to continue the story post-trilogy. Just my opinion but I believe for them to truly position themselves for more games in the Milky Way they would need to: - Remaster the trilogy (maybe even remake the combat, inventory and upgrading system in ME1) - Add additional scenes and dialogue to everything that happened after you got hit by Harbinger and stumbled into the Citadel beam - Make more distinction between EMS consequences - including the "breath scene" - and make the "Extended Cut" fully integrated into the final disc as opposed to a DLC It would be a lot of work and I'm sure not BioWare would want to devore the necessary resources to accomplish it. Alternatively, they could just do a quick remaster, release them with all DLC included and just make a blunt statement "Destroy/Control/Synthesis" is canon" If they were to remaster the game then all the DLC should be added into the appropriate places in the story.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 24, 2018 17:54:52 GMT
I pick "Destroy" 99% of the time but, honestly, I'd be fine with any ending as long as the writing is good. I think you have the easiest path to canonize either "Destroy" or "Control" ending while I just can't really conceptualize a post-"Synthesis" ending that would allow you to continue the story post-trilogy. Just my opinion but I believe for them to truly position themselves for more games in the Milky Way they would need to: - Remaster the trilogy (maybe even remake the combat, inventory and upgrading system in ME1) - Add additional scenes and dialogue to everything that happened after you got hit by Harbinger and stumbled into the Citadel beam - Make more distinction between EMS consequences - including the "breath scene" - and make the "Extended Cut" fully integrated into the final disc as opposed to a DLC It would be a lot of work and I'm sure not BioWare would want to devore the necessary resources to accomplish it. Alternatively, they could just do a quick remaster, release them with all DLC included and just make a blunt statement "Destroy/Control/Synthesis" is canon" If they were to remaster the game then all the DLC should be added into the appropriate places in the story. Well, I can see the "Extended Cut" but what's the appropriate place for "Bringing Down the Sky" or "Leviathan" or "Lair of the Shadow Broker"? I think any Remaster would include all SP DLC, including "From Ashes", but I don't think they'll hard-code it into a certain part of the respective game.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 24, 2018 19:20:12 GMT
Sorry folks, remaster will only happen if the game is remade by fans and impossible to acquire.
You can't port much from UE3 to FB3. All of the art assets are fine, the VOs are fine (unless you want to change stuff), everything else - start over. That's a lot of work, remaking a game you already considered finished and that made you money.
If I was a seer, that's what I'd tell you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know enough about total conversion mods and game development to tell you it is a pipe dream.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 24, 2018 19:29:56 GMT
Sorry folks, remaster will only happen if the game is remade by fans and impossible to acquire. You can't port much from UE3 to FB3. All of the art assets are fine, the VOs are fine (unless you want to change stuff), everything else - start over. That's a lot of work, remaking a game you already considered finished and that made you money. If I was a seer, that's what I'd tell you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know enough about total conversion mods and game development to tell you it is a pipe dream. I'm assuming if a "remaster" is done it will just be a polished version of ME-ME3 with all SP DLC added in plus "Extended Cut". People who traded away/sold their PS3 would be able to play it again on PS4 but it will obviously not change the fundamental elements of the ending which still puts the future of the series likely in Andromeda. Although, they could do a 20-30 HR Expansion to ME:A that would tie up the Ryder-esque plot-lines and then, shortly after, reveal they are doing a re-imagining of the original trilogy in Frostbite 3...meaning they re-create the series one game at a time with an eye towards ultimately providing a "different take" on the endings.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 24, 2018 19:57:59 GMT
Sorry folks, remaster will only happen if the game is remade by fans and impossible to acquire. You can't port much from UE3 to FB3. All of the art assets are fine, the VOs are fine (unless you want to change stuff), everything else - start over. That's a lot of work, remaking a game you already considered finished and that made you money. If I was a seer, that's what I'd tell you. Maybe I'm wrong, but I know enough about total conversion mods and game development to tell you it is a pipe dream. I'm assuming if a "remaster" is done it will just be a polished version of ME-ME3 with all SP DLC added in plus "Extended Cut". People who traded away/sold their PS3 would be able to play it again on PS4 but it will obviously not change the fundamental elements of the ending which still puts the future of the series likely in Andromeda. Although, they could do a 20-30 HR Expansion to ME:A that would tie up the Ryder-esque plot-lines and then, shortly after, reveal they are doing a re-imagining of the original trilogy in Frostbite 3...meaning they re-create the series one game at a time with an eye towards ultimately providing a "different take" on the endings. How would that work? The old games are on a deprecated engine that has been out of date since ME3's release. BioWare has moved on to FB3, and some of the old developers have moved on, left the industry, or even sadly escaped their mortal coil. The new devs would need to learn obsolete skills if they were to use the old engine, and they would still have to pay the license. If they migrate to FB3/4/??, it's a do-over. I would play it, I would pay for it. I don't know if there are enough of us to make this remotely profitable, and that's a giant gamble for a publicly traded company to take.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 24, 2018 20:29:04 GMT
I'm assuming if a "remaster" is done it will just be a polished version of ME-ME3 with all SP DLC added in plus "Extended Cut". People who traded away/sold their PS3 would be able to play it again on PS4 but it will obviously not change the fundamental elements of the ending which still puts the future of the series likely in Andromeda. Although, they could do a 20-30 HR Expansion to ME:A that would tie up the Ryder-esque plot-lines and then, shortly after, reveal they are doing a re-imagining of the original trilogy in Frostbite 3...meaning they re-create the series one game at a time with an eye towards ultimately providing a "different take" on the endings. How would that work? The old games are on a deprecated engine that has been out of date since ME3's release. BioWare has moved on to FB3, and some of the old developers have moved on, left the industry, or even sadly escaped their mortal coil. The new devs would need to learn obsolete skills if they were to use the old engine, and they would still have to pay the license. If they migrate to FB3/4/??, it's a do-over. I would play it, I would pay for it. I don't know if there are enough of us to make this remotely profitable, and that's a giant gamble for a publicly traded company to take. Again, I'm not saying transfer from UE3 to FB3 or update using UE3. I am saying re-create the series one game at a time in Frostbite 3 (new animations, new combat, new inventory, etc) using the same voice actors (Jennifer Hale, Mark Meer, etc), if available. They could use what "opportunities" they learned from the 1st time around build the structure from the trilogy from there adding and subtracting as needed all with an eye towards a re-done ending that would allow further games in the Milky Way.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 24, 2018 20:44:05 GMT
How would that work? The old games are on a deprecated engine that has been out of date since ME3's release. BioWare has moved on to FB3, and some of the old developers have moved on, left the industry, or even sadly escaped their mortal coil. The new devs would need to learn obsolete skills if they were to use the old engine, and they would still have to pay the license. If they migrate to FB3/4/??, it's a do-over. I would play it, I would pay for it. I don't know if there are enough of us to make this remotely profitable, and that's a giant gamble for a publicly traded company to take. Again, I'm not saying transfer from UE3 to FB3 or update using UE3. I am saying re-create the series one game at a time in Frostbite 3 (new animations, new combat, new inventory, etc) using the same voice actors (Jennifer Hale, Mark Meer, etc), if available. They could use what "opportunities" they learned from the 1st time around build the structure from the trilogy from there adding and subtracting as needed all with an eye towards a re-done ending that would allow further games in the Milky Way. Well, sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I'll pass on that. Rather have new content with those amazing VAs than have a retread, for myself.
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Post by samhain444 on Aug 24, 2018 21:04:39 GMT
Again, I'm not saying transfer from UE3 to FB3 or update using UE3. I am saying re-create the series one game at a time in Frostbite 3 (new animations, new combat, new inventory, etc) using the same voice actors (Jennifer Hale, Mark Meer, etc), if available. They could use what "opportunities" they learned from the 1st time around build the structure from the trilogy from there adding and subtracting as needed all with an eye towards a re-done ending that would allow further games in the Milky Way. Well, sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I'll pass on that. Rather have new content with those amazing VAs than have a retread, for myself. If it was available for purchase, I'd buy it but I doubt it's being considered. Like I said, I think the likeliest scenario, if they decide to revisit the Original Trilogy, is just a re-polish with all DLC. I think new games will be set in Andromeda whether it's Ryder or someone else.
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Post by Ascend on Aug 24, 2018 23:43:53 GMT
I'd rather they wait 10-20 years after ME3 before rebooting the original trilogy. It's simply too soon to do it now.
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