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Post by cloud9 on May 18, 2020 2:10:53 GMT
There's a mod that fixes the ending. *cough* Disney ending *cough* Better than the "choose your color" ending, and the star schmuck's pseudo-philosophical bullshit of "synthetic v organics".
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 18, 2020 2:16:47 GMT
Thinking about it, the control ending is actually the best ending to make canon as it's the only ending where mass relays remain intact. You can just hand wave the reapers away too. You can say they flew away - never to be seen again. There's a mod that fixes the ending. I'd rather take an ending written by actual writers
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Post by cloud9 on May 18, 2020 2:18:22 GMT
Then how are they're going to move the franchise forward, if the ending of ME3 isn't canon and the writing is a complete mess? Damn, do they even think before they act? What's going on with them? *sigh* No canon ending doesn't mean no ending exists, it means that each ending is up to the player's choice. This is why we moved over to Andromeda, so we can leave the Milky Way behind and work on something NEW Dragon Age: Origins done a better job of creating multiple endings and different outcomes, and it was a concise story that fits well in the sequel. The writers who worked on the ending for ME3 obviously don't know what the hell they're doing. And it would be a huge mess, if there's no clear concise story of the aftermath of the Milky Way. So using Andromeda to avoid the fuck-ups of ME3 ending, is a very, very poor excuse. That's why the Trilogy needs to be completely rewritten.
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Post by cloud9 on May 18, 2020 2:19:14 GMT
There's a mod that fixes the ending. I'd rather take an ending written by actual writers Ok.
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Post by cloud9 on May 18, 2020 2:20:26 GMT
Then how are they're going to move the franchise forward, if the ending of ME3 isn't canon and the writing is a complete mess? Damn, do they even think before they act? What's going on with them? They thought that they didn't want to make any more Mass Effect, perhaps? Then they might as well give the franchise to someone else.
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Post by cloud9 on May 18, 2020 2:21:59 GMT
This engine is not the real issue here. Just because you keep saying no, doesn't make it true. If it's not an issue, then why are there complaints from devs who are having difficult time working with the engine? It's not like they're lying.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2020 2:23:23 GMT
*sigh* No canon ending doesn't mean no ending exists, it means that each ending is up to the player's choice. This is why we moved over to Andromeda, so we can leave the Milky Way behind and work on something NEWDragon Age: Origins done a better job of creating multiple endings and different outcomes, and it was a concise story that fits well in the sequel. The writers who worked on the ending for ME3 don't know what the hell they're doing, and it would be a huge mess if there's no clear concise story of the aftermath of the Milky Way. So using Andromeda to avoid the fuck-ups of ME3 ending, is a very, very poor excuse. I love the irony in how every complaint about ME3 is exactly what Bioware did with DAO which is being praised. Slideshow showing what happened, moving to a new setting with new characters, etc.
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 18, 2020 2:29:43 GMT
Dragon Age: Origins done a better job of creating multiple endings and different outcomes, and it was a concise story that fits well in the sequel. The writers who worked on the ending for ME3 don't know what the hell they're doing, and it would be a huge mess if there's no clear concise story of the aftermath of the Milky Way. So using Andromeda to avoid the fuck-ups of ME3 ending, is a very, very poor excuse. I love the irony in how every complaint about ME3 is exactly what Bioware did with DAO which is being praised. Slideshow showing what happened, moving to a new setting with new characters, etc. Being petty and bitter is a choice.
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Post by cipher on May 18, 2020 3:46:59 GMT
As someone who enjoyed ME3 (DLC included) and only recently got acquainted with the Dragon Age series (still need to finish DAI soon) I can honestly say that DAO handled its plot better than ME3. The two are kinda similar in what the main plot-line is asking you to accomplish, but I felt fulfilled after finishing that game rather than empty.
With ME3, I wanted to feel like I did in the Citadel DLC or at least have a grand finish with all my squad like in ME2. But, instead... the plot says my attempt to unite Quarian & Geth is ultimately futile & EDI will rebel because reasons, and then my only option if I don't want to kill them is admit TIM was right or force fuse everything together which isn't even explained, nor is it elaborated on how your squad thinks about your decision like ME2 & ME1 did.
DAO at least put time in to state how characters/factions were individually at the end, and yes, I would've liked to have some text on each. Nevermind the ME3 slides themselves were "extended cut" DLC and not in the vanilla game at all. I still enjoyed ME3 overall, but the end was obviously rushed without a clear foundation tying it to ME1.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 5:13:46 GMT
ME3 was never going to end like DAO, or Citadel DLC. It's referred to as "shore leave" for a reason. Like a break from the action or an intermission in a hockey game between periods.
ME3 was never going to feel like ME1 and ME2 did. Besides the ending, there was many, many references to end times, and last days, and end of civilization. So yeah, pretty bleak. With a slim ray of hope...Emphasis on slim. If you buy into all the choices at the end, because the Starchild or Reapers tell you as much, then they've managed to convince you that their solutions work. They've managed to influence your thinking, which is what they do to defeat their enemies.
This is called cognitive dissonance, when there is a mismatch between what you believe, and what someone has led you to believe.
Clearly, the Reapers have led you, the player (not Shepard, *you* the player controlling Shepard) to believe in such things by their mere suggestion, and you as a player believe what they are telling you to be true. Instead of sticking with your own beliefs. This is what the Reapers are trying to do to defeat you. Not with their big powerful lasers, but their powers of the mind, and manipulation of your thought and belief processes.
Or you could just destroy them and ignore what they say. Extended Cut slides and content were produced after the game shipped. They may have had ideas, but it's not like they had it all completed before hand to release later. Synthesis has been hinted at since ME1: Saren: The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined. A union of flesh and steel. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future Shepard, the evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth. Then there was Harbinger talking about the Reapers genetic destiny. How they were going to "bring your species into harmony with our own". Then the synthesis ending happened. Bam! Foreshadowing. The aftermath is witnessed by everyone in the galaxy not just your squadmates. Like with ME1, once you finish everything, there is no playable epilogue allowing you to continue. Once you make your final choice, that is it. A "legend" save is created as your final decision is made, and everything resets back to Cerberus Headquarters.
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Post by cipher on May 18, 2020 8:02:07 GMT
I have absolutely no problem with the premise of synthesis... I'm one of the weirdos who would actually prefer A.I. over organics or would try and romance EDI if given the choice to. The issue is with the execution. (space magic aside) Like I said in another thread, I truly wish it was the Geth/EDI synthesis was achieved with solely & the Reapers left out of the equation. I wanted an ending where the Geth created their mega-structure and evolved into whatever they were trying to become. The galaxy could have advanced with new A.I. adhering to better values. Seemed like wasted potential, especially since a Geth/Quarian superpower would also be a nice buffer against a resurgent Wreave led Krogan or Leviathan.
As for the tone of ME3, I agree that is the correct approach given the Reaper threat. I just think that the end (priority Earth onwards) could have been much more of an epic scale ground assault incorporating most squad-mates.
Where things stand right now, I don't believe in indoctrination theory, if that is what @magnetite is alluding to. I've gone back & forth with the theory, but there needs to be more actual evidence. It's brilliant IMO if Bioware had the idea to indoctrinate the player in such a way, especially had it been over the course of the series. But I don't think that's what they were going for.
The endings operate more like the Geth choice in ME2. At first you only have the option to destroy for example, but then the variables change and another choice presents itself. Whether said choice is better is subjective.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 8:48:10 GMT
I have absolutely no problem with the premise of synthesis... I'm one of the weirdos who would actually prefer A.I. over organics or would try and romance EDI if given the choice to. The issue is with the execution. (space magic aside) Like I said in another thread, I truly wish it was the Geth/EDI synthesis was achieved with solely & the Reapers left out of the equation. I wanted an ending where the Geth created their mega-structure and evolved into whatever they were trying to become. The galaxy could have advanced with new A.I. adhering to better values. Seemed like wasted potential, especially since a Geth/Quarian superpower would also be a nice buffer against a resurgent Wreave led Krogan or Leviathan. As for the tone of ME3, I agree that is the correct approach given the Reaper threat. I just think that the end (priority Earth onwards) could have been much more of an epic scale ground assault incorporating most squad-mates. Where things stand right now, I don't believe in indoctrination theory, if that is what @magnetite is alluding to. I've gone back & forth with the theory, but there needs to be more actual evidence. It's brilliant IMO if Bioware had the idea to indoctrinate the player in such a way, especially had it been over the course of the series. But I don't think that's what they were going for. The endings operate more like the Geth choice in ME2. At first you only have the option to destroy for example, but then the variables change and another choice presents itself. Whether said choice is better is subjective. Reapers didn't come all this way for nothing. Their goal is to complete the harvest and ascend organics and synthetics under synthesis to the pinnacle of evolution, which they believe themselves to be. I think a lot of people misunderstood what synthesis is. It's not about organics and synthetics coming together in harmony. The Reapers are only at peace with you, because you basically let them harvest the entire galaxy and now everyone has Reaper DNA in them. They completed the harvest, then they come back in another 50,000 years for more. Look at the pattern on everyone's skin in the synthesis ending. Compare it to the pattern on the Illusive Man, and the Reaper at the Cerberus Base. It's the same thing.
Now I didn't get too far into Star Trek, but the Reapers taking all the lesser advanced species and merging them with Reaper tech is like what the Borg do.
Mass Effect Andromeda and the Kett's exaltation is similar to the Reapers harvesting.
There's plenty of evidence, it's just not "in your face". Bioware will never come out and tell you "this is what we were going for", because like I said earlier, there is no canon ending to ME3. They left it open for the players to decide which ending is best. Some people can't handle it, they want an "authority" (eg. Bioware) to tell them what to think.
If you're referring to the idea of destroying the heretics, or rewriting their programming to accept your beliefs, that's not what's going on here. There was an option to destroy the Reapers, but there wasn't going to be an option to rewrite their programming so they don't harvest you.
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Post by KaiserShep on May 18, 2020 11:53:17 GMT
How many times do I have to repeat myself and say they designed it as a trilogy and nothing more?
Because of Star Wars and Halo both started out as trilogies and are no longer that.
Well technically Star Wars purposefully started at the midway point of the saga, so even if there weren’t definite plans in the beginning, there was a lot of room to maneuver. In any case, movies are different because all events are fixed. There’s no need to account for deleted scenes or alternate endings.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2020 14:53:43 GMT
Let me guess: your "source" that you can't give info about or else risk their job yet give info about at all still risking their job? Depends. Are you referring to the stuff themikefest disclosed? 100% true. Mine? I've never said a true thing in my life.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2020 15:00:33 GMT
ME3 was never going to end like DAO, or Citadel DLC Then I think Bioware misjudged their audience. Frankly, I can't think of any fanbase that is on board with depressing, catastrophic endings and the complete collapse of society as we know it. Just look at the TLoU fanbase who, while being fans of a post apocalyptic zombie franchise, do not want, or care, for Neil Druckman's nihilistic, dehumanizing vision of humanity.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2020 15:07:03 GMT
Let me guess: your "source" that you can't give info about or else risk their job yet give info about at all still risking their job? Depends. Are you referring to the stuff themikefest disclosed? 100% true. Mine? I've never said a true thing in my life. Either honestly.
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 18, 2020 15:19:24 GMT
Then how are they're going to move the franchise forward, if the ending of ME3 isn't canon and the writing is a complete mess? Damn, do they even think before they act? What's going on with them? How many times do I have to repeat myself and say they designed it as a trilogy and nothing more?
Maybe the franchise should have ended as a trilogy.
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Post by burningcherry on May 18, 2020 15:22:28 GMT
Are we back to that discussion from half a year ago or more? The ending outcomes of both ME1 and ME2 are set in their following games regardless of what the player got. Consider it making them canon or not but it's not really an obstacle, even if a game following only one of the endings has to be considered a spin-off.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Highwayman667 on May 18, 2020 16:07:43 GMT
Are we back to that discussion from half a year ago or more? The ending outcomes of both ME1 and ME2 are set in their following games regardless of what the player got. Consider it making them canon or not but it's not really an obstacle, even if a game following only one of the endings has to be considered a spin-off. But that is precisely why we should be in Andromeda now, to focus on a new place we can fully explore and discover. I don't discard the idea of returning to the Milky Way but I'd rather we stay away of it, unless we can find someway to properly create a setting that follows the events of ME3.
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Post by wright1978 on May 18, 2020 16:59:23 GMT
Then how are they're going to move the franchise forward, if the ending of ME3 isn't canon and the writing is a complete mess? Damn, do they even think before they act? What's going on with them? They thought that they didn't want to make any more Mass Effect, perhaps? Yeah a group were worn down from making trilogy thought it was a fine idea to douse the cash cow in petrol and watch it burn.
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Post by alanc9 on May 18, 2020 16:59:37 GMT
With ME3, I wanted to feel like I did in the Citadel DLC or at least have a grand finish with all my squad like in ME2. But, instead... the plot says my attempt to unite Quarian & Geth is ultimately futile & EDI will rebel because reasons, and then my only option if I don't want to kill them is admit TIM was right or force fuse everything together which isn't even explained, nor is it elaborated on how your squad thinks about your decision like ME2 & ME1 did. The plot doesn't say that. The Catalyst says that. Nobody says you have to believe him, and why would you? As for proving TIM right, why would you care what he thought? He was an enemy, he's dead now, and whatever he believed or didn't believe is of no importance.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2020 17:22:11 GMT
But that is precisely why we should be in Andromeda now, to focus on a new place we can fully explore and discover. The problem is that we are in Andromeda and the new place we can fully explore and discover intrigued figuratively no one. There is also the problem that the promise it will be done better next time holds absolutely no sway on the people the decried Andromeda the first time, because they have since seen that Bioware is not capable of doing it better. Bioware will have to prove themselves on several fronts, just to win back the benefit of the doubt. I don't discard the idea of returning to the Milky Way but I'd rather we stay away of it, unless we can find someway to properly create a setting that follows the events of ME3 Why even follow the events of a game that has led to the situation we find ourselves in today? Delete it. Maybe the franchise should have ended as a trilogy. Maybe the franchise should have ended with ME1. Maybe Bioware should have shut down after Baldur's Gate 2, since there was no way they could top that, therefore fulfilling their purpose as a studio. That's not how it works. Bioware is a company and Mass Effect is their franchise. The point is to make money using their franchises, in order to make profit, in order to not only survive, but also expand as a studio. I think we can all agree that there's no way Bioware would abandon ME, even more so since they didn't strike out with their new franchise.
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Post by Son of Dorn on May 18, 2020 17:39:50 GMT
But that is precisely why we should be in Andromeda now, to focus on a new place we can fully explore and discover. The problem is that we are in Andromeda and the new place we can fully explore and discover intrigued figuratively no one. There is also the problem that the promise it will be done better next time holds absolutely no sway on the people the decried Andromeda the first time, because they have since seen that Bioware is not capable of doing it better. Bioware will have to prove themselves on several fronts, just to win back the benefit of the doubt. I don't discard the idea of returning to the Milky Way but I'd rather we stay away of it, unless we can find someway to properly create a setting that follows the events of ME3 Why even follow the events of a game that has led to the situation we find ourselves in today? Delete it. Maybe the franchise should have ended as a trilogy. Maybe the franchise should have ended with ME1. Maybe Bioware should have shut down after Baldur's Gate 2, since there was no way they could top that, therefore fulfilling their purpose as a studio. That's not how it works. Bioware is a company and Mass Effect is their franchise. The point is to make money using their franchises, in order to make profit, in order to not only survive, but also expand as a studio. I think we can all agree that there's no way Bioware would abandon ME, even more so since they didn't strike out with their new franchise. Given the state it is in now, maybe it should have been. Not it matters now. Just my two cents...
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 18, 2020 17:49:35 GMT
Given the state it is in now, maybe it should have been. Not it matters now. Just my two cents... Maybe it should. While we are here, though, there is always the option to change. Refusal to change, to your own detriment of course and by "your", I mean Bioware's, is also an option.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2020 17:52:51 GMT
Then they might as well give the franchise to someone else. Yeah, the fans, who think they know the universe better than the people who created it. *cackles maniacally*
Maybe the franchise should have ended as a trilogy.
The Mass Effect IP isn't just about the trilogy. That's Shepard's story, which has concluded. Various different TV shows and other media have created spin-offs from the original works.
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