Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 27, 2018 23:51:46 GMT
Seriously? That's pretty fucked up. I had no idea that if we weren't of one mind on the game that the dissenters had to be killed. I'm pretty sure we've had differences of opinion but I don't think it ever even came to a sideways word against one another. Maybe the diehards of the ME fanbase are borderline insane... I am not even sure if it was the diehards or people just trying to rile up the fanbase for the lulz. I had plenty of threats too during ME3 because of the stance I took on the endings a really controversial one for some reason that probably got me the most threats was "I think the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 was worse".
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 27, 2018 23:54:17 GMT
But isn't that just true?
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Post by colfoley on Jan 28, 2018 0:17:54 GMT
BioWare games have always been progressive, but I must say I think starting with 3 it started getting too preachy. For example, one dialogue with EDI in the cockpit has Joker telling some Krogan vs Salarian jokes and EDI corrects him saying it plays to racial stereotypes on both sides, and then Joker explains back to her that it's one of the few jokes you'll hear being said on both sides. He then explains that comedy isn't about being nice but it can be a way to air out the ugly things people think (almost exact phrasing here). It's a minor detail but even this I thought is too much the type of moral statements you'll hear said on Twitter or between people in political conversations. The point isn't "keep yo polidicks out of mah games!" it's more that when it becomes political-spouting inside a game and feels like exactly the kinds of debates you'll hear outside the game it feels... cheap, and unfitting. Luckily this works because of the context but it still feels like an annoying message snuck in here that's more about Patrick telling you what he thinks than it's about writing applicabily for Mass Effect. Hmm.. but given that humor was a topic of conversation for Joker and EDI in general, wasn't this a logical question for EDI to have, and a reasonable answer from Joker? Personally this kind of thing did annoy me. Her Datafication was a bit of a minor gripe and one of the main reasons I prefer SAM.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 28, 2018 0:22:54 GMT
Maybe the diehards of the ME fanbase are borderline insane... I am not even sure if it was the diehards or people just trying to rile up the fanbase for the lulz. I had plenty of threats too during ME3 because of the stance I took on the endings a really controversial one for some reason that probably got me the most threats was "I think the ending for Assassin's Creed 3 was worse". Or it could have been both (or one of the other). But at the end of the day, no one will be able to say for sure due to the lack of evidence (which sucks).
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 28, 2018 0:53:23 GMT
All products are political, people. Media especially. It's not possible to be genuinely apolitical.
When you say you don't want 'politics' in your games, all you really mean is you don't want to see messages you disagree with.
Science Fiction in particular has always, always, always been political, since the time of H.G. Wells at least. If you argue that Mary Shelley invented sci-fi when she wrote Frankenstein, well Frankenstein is political too. Star Trek and Star Wars are blatantly political. Every work of Dystopian fiction, from 1984 to The Man in the High Castle to The Handmaid's Tale is political. The Dune series is political. Doctor Who is political. Blade Runner is political. All classic and new sci-fi is and always has been political. You could argue that being political is the primary purpose of the genre.
If you don't like politics in your sci-fi, then guess what: you don't like sci-fi.
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Post by xeternalxdreams on Jan 28, 2018 1:03:43 GMT
Anita is trash, I agree, but overreaction, tho? Also, what a diverse cast. Not my BioWare. I watched Anita's videos on gaming.. complete trash and needs to be thrown out the airlock (not her, of course.. her misinterpretation of the artwork). I guess she only had tea with women at the studio (plus the token guy, lol)? Btw, what does she mean by allies? *rubs head* ..ooh, yeah. Of her agenda.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 28, 2018 1:17:20 GMT
Anita is trash, I agree, but overreaction, tho? Also, what a diverse cast. Not my BioWare. I watched Anita's videos on gaming.. complete trash and needs to be thrown out the airlock (not her, of course.. her misinterpretation of the artwork). I guess she only had tea with women at the studio (plus the token guy, lol)? Btw, what does she mean by allies? *rubs head* ..ooh, yeah. Of her agenda. I'm sure if you ask nicely, she'll invite you to the next tea party.
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Post by xeternalxdreams on Jan 28, 2018 1:34:40 GMT
I watched Anita's videos on gaming.. complete trash and needs to be thrown out the airlock (not her, of course.. her misinterpretation of the artwork). I guess she only had tea with women at the studio (plus the token guy, lol)? Btw, what does she mean by allies? *rubs head* ..ooh, yeah. Of her agenda. I'm sure if you ask nicely, she'll invite you to the next tea party. I can't say all of her work is bad though as I haven't seen it all. I'm sure if I was having tea with her.. I would ask her if it's okay if Brood mothers and desire demons from DAO should return then sip my tea. I know that sounds rude but this whole thing is a rhetorical convo. XD
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Jan 28, 2018 1:54:00 GMT
I don't have a huge issue with the original event posted here. No big deal though wish we could quickly get to the point of not singling out sexes. Re BioWare and some sort of politically correctness, with no real proof on my part i was disappointed that they seemed to make a story arch change when they just pretended that Sandal never existed all of a sudden. I'm not actually sure what you're talking about here. Sandal's mentioned by Dagna and his stuff turns up in Trespasser. mentioned and his stuff shows up, after his vision which had a major portent to the following parts of the game. A unique character with tremendous power and big foreshadowing becomes a footnote.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 28, 2018 1:59:27 GMT
I'm not actually sure what you're talking about here. Sandal's mentioned by Dagna and his stuff turns up in Trespasser. mentioned and his stuff shows up, after his vision which had a major portent to the following parts of the game. A unique character with tremendous power and big foreshadowing becomes a footnote. to be frank there is still DA games to go. And, then you have to figure that the nature of game writing, at present is verrrryyy changable.
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jrpN7
N3
Pro vobis omne periculum.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by jrpN7 on Jan 28, 2018 2:07:02 GMT
Ugh.
Anti-SJWs.
This breed is completely in over their heads. You are LITERALLY playing a video game about ALIENS and ALIEN SEX and SYNTHETICS. From the very beginning, the series have been about progressive ideals like equality despite your background, unity despite differences, and normality despite sexual orientation and an overarching theme of fair treatment deserving of your actions not on the basis of how/where you were born. If not, you were asked to fix it or make it just.
Enter Commander Shepard. Even as paragon/renegade he/she led the player to practice all of this. Or were you too busy jacking off to alien blue ladies to realize it?
Can't handle a dude with black skin, women in powerful positions, a man kissing his husband or modern progressive politics BUT bring on the aliens! Sorry, but if you can't get over the differences and complexities of humans, then you wouldn't last a day with aliens.
Anti-SJWs are why aliens won't talk to us.
/endrant
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Post by river82 on Jan 28, 2018 3:10:55 GMT
BioWare games have always been progressive, but I must say I think starting with 3 it started getting too preachy. For example, one dialogue with EDI in the cockpit has Joker telling some Krogan vs Salarian jokes and EDI corrects him saying it plays to racial stereotypes on both sides, and then Joker explains back to her that it's one of the few jokes you'll hear being said on both sides. He then explains that comedy isn't about being nice but it can be a way to air out the ugly things people think (almost exact phrasing here). Dragon Age 2 is probably the closest thing Bioware got to "preachy/propaganda", with the theme of oppression being very strong with obvious parallels to the real world, and Anders views being shoved at the player. Yet even then I don't think it crosses the line. It's a story with strong themes but I don't really get an air of preachiness from it. It just differs from Bioware's earlier work because those games didn't really have themes. But it's definitely a line that writers need to be careful of, makes it trickier when the line is in different spots depending on who you talk to I tend to think if the writer shows what they want to say through the story it's not preachy, but if a writer starts telling the reader why such and such is awesome through a character's lengthy soliloquy's, well ... I don't really see any hint of preachiness at all in ME3, TBH
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N4
Space Pirate
🚀🥃🏴☠
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Scathane on Jan 28, 2018 3:50:43 GMT
What would a product with all politics kept out even look like? I dunno man, there's an awful lot of left vs. right in there...
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Post by river82 on Jan 28, 2018 5:02:15 GMT
I just played 2 games of pong on intermediate - lost 10:2, lost 10:3
... *rolls up sleeve* right!
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Post by river82 on Jan 28, 2018 5:05:24 GMT
Lost 10:7
Dammit!
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N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Jan 28, 2018 5:07:41 GMT
The computer is obviously cheating.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 28, 2018 5:19:57 GMT
All products are political, people. Media especially. It's not possible to be genuinely apolitical. When you say you don't want 'politics' in your games, all you really mean is you don't want to see messages you disagree with. Science Fiction in particular has always, always, always been political, since the time of H.G. Wells at least. If you argue that Mary Shelley invented sci-fi when she wrote Frankenstein, well Frankenstein is political too. Star Trek and Star Wars are blatantly political. Every work of Dystopian fiction, from 1984 to The Man in the High Castle to The Handmaid's Tale is political. The Dune series is political. Doctor Who is political. Blade Runner is political. All classic and new sci-fi is and always has been political. You could argue that being political is the primary purpose of the genre. If you don't like politics in your sci-fi, then guess what: you don't like sci-fi. I agree, if you want to find it you just have to look at any game released especially with ones a story behind them.
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Post by q5tyhj on Jan 28, 2018 6:15:20 GMT
crying about Anita Sarkeesian? What year is it?
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Post by Andrew Lucas on Jan 28, 2018 6:38:48 GMT
Inb4 Liam suddenly discovers Scott's penis in the next Mass Effect game that's never coming out.
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Post by smilesja on Jan 28, 2018 7:09:54 GMT
Inb4 Liam suddenly discovers Scott's penis in the next Mass Effect game that's never coming out. What?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Jan 28, 2018 7:11:45 GMT
All products are political, people. Media especially. It's not possible to be genuinely apolitical. When you say you don't want 'politics' in your games, all you really mean is you don't want to see messages you disagree with.Science Fiction in particular has always, always, always been political, since the time of H.G. Wells at least. If you argue that Mary Shelley invented sci-fi when she wrote Frankenstein, well Frankenstein is political too. Star Trek and Star Wars are blatantly political. Every work of Dystopian fiction, from 1984 to The Man in the High Castle to The Handmaid's Tale is political. The Dune series is political. Doctor Who is political. Blade Runner is political. All classic and new sci-fi is and always has been political. You could argue that being political is the primary purpose of the genre. If you don't like politics in your sci-fi, then guess what: you don't like sci-fi. You took the words from my mouth. Just to add to the exemples, The Expanse, a new space sci-fi series is also very political. ps: your avatar makes me laugh.
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i'm just begging for change at the liqueur store... *face palm* no, not really.
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Post by invisibleman on Jan 28, 2018 8:28:48 GMT
how about... i want sci-fi with politics that actually makes some kind of sense, and actually fits into the plot?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 28, 2018 10:19:02 GMT
Or perhaps the fact that you are content with Bioware's brand of politics is because it fits with your narrow interests? Hang on though ... I would assess BioWare's 'political' position as sitting squarely in mainstream opinion.ok, I do see screeching from folk triggered by so-called 'SJW's' but I'm inclined to view that as a temporary phase. I recall a Russian journalist asking that Dragon Age Inquisition come with a 'gay content toggle', so there will always be blowback given that the history of gaming has not been as diverse. But BioWare should press ahead simply including diversity and in that way it won't stand out as trying to make a point.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 28, 2018 10:54:41 GMT
All products are political, people. Media especially. It's not possible to be genuinely apolitical.
That's factually incorrect, especially when it comes to video games. Let's take as an example a few video games I played quite a lot recently: Total War Warhammer 2, Divinity Original Sin 2, Battlefleet Gothic Armada, and Space Hulk: Deathwing.
None of the above titles have any connection to modern politics, all of them are somewhere between fantasy and Sci-fi.
It is entirely possible to make a great entertainment product without any obvious political messaging.
I never said there had to be any particular message, and your failure to perceive a political message in a given video game doesn't mean there isn't one, or even several. All products are political, regardless of creator intention, because every choice made in the course of creating a product says something about it and its creators. Being too thoughtless to see messages in your own work doesn't make them disappear. There's no such thing as an apolitical product, you just don't see the politics because you aren't bothered, and take it for granted that nobody else will be. But a lot of people don't actually have the luxury of being blind to that sort of thing, because it has a direct negative impact on their real lives.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 28, 2018 11:13:22 GMT
I never said there had to be any particular message, and your failure to perceive a political message in a given video game doesn't mean there isn't one, or even several. All products are political, regardless of creator intention, because every choice made in the course of creating a product says something about it and its creators. Being too thoughtless There's no such thing as an apolitical product, you just don't see the politics because you aren't bothered, and take it for granted that nobody else will be. But a lot of people don't actually have the luxury of being blind to that sort of thing, because it has a direct negative impact on their real lives. I suppose I just fail to see all the lives Divinity Original Sin 2 has impacted negatively with its controversial politics...
In any case, the point is that entertainment shouldn't be conflated with a private soapbox, neither yours nor anyone else's. I mean, you could do it, just don't be surprised when there's a negative reaction. Which is exactly the reason why it should be left as neutral as possible, because it's a product aimed at the public at large.
Obviously currently you like it because you like the message, but as is apparent from your response, you only tolerate politics that you happen to agree with, which is exactly my point.
In order to 'fail', you would first have to actually try. I don't know what message it is that you think I like, but you're correct that I do not tolerate politics I disagree with, because unlike you, apparently, I am one of the aforementioned people who does not have the luxury of debating politics in the abstract. My life and the lives of people I care about are frequently endangered by the thoughtless speech and actions of ignorant people who cannot simply mind their own business.
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