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Post by Faust on Feb 13, 2018 15:57:53 GMT
Why this need for "specific representation" ?
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Post by eskiya on Feb 13, 2018 16:18:55 GMT
Why this need for "specific representation" ? People want to see themselves in their games/movies/etc. Which I completely understand, and I more than support the direction of inclusion in current games... But. There is a line that has to be drawn. Where do we stop self-inserting or demanding everything/everyone be represented and just go back to enjoying a good game? They can't pour all resources into including every single type/trope/etc out there or they'd go bankrupt and we'd have no game worth playing.
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Post by phoray on Feb 13, 2018 17:31:51 GMT
Why this need for "specific representation" ? This is a question usually asked by someone who already is well represented in media. This comes to mind: The Doll TestNot being represented in media sends a message. You are other, unwanted, not important to advertise to. See, also, Token Minority: Tropes
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Post by phoray on Feb 13, 2018 17:34:05 GMT
They can't pour all resources into including every single type/trope/etc out there or they'd go bankrupt and we'd have no game worth playing. I don't think they'd be able to include EVERYONE in EVERY GAME. But Dragon age has had three games with no true Asexual representation, and it was only DAI before they made dedicated homosexual characters. Just like it's time for a Dwarf Romance, it could be time for a Transgendered or Asexual or polyamorous romance. Not expecting all three to be there.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Feb 13, 2018 18:11:20 GMT
And unless I am perceived while in stealth, it should never ever EVER trigger combat mode until I strike. I second this sentiment, although I remember this happening more in MEA than DAI. LukeBarrett Stealth in DAI was a state that enemies couldn't see you in. We ended up having a problem with people skipping content and breaking some flow by stealthing through encounters and having the rest of the party teleport to that person so we had to add enemies that had the special ability to perceive stealth. The intended design goal for it was to allow a melee Player to get in to a proper position to start a fight with an attack. SO, with that in mind I think there are several ways we could meet that requirement while still limiting the ability to just bypass everything (which is actually more an issue with party teleport allowing a Party to only need 1 stealth character). Personally I thought the duration was way too high to achieve that goal on Inquisition but some people on the team hated the 'time pressure' feeling that is accompanied by small timing windows
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 13, 2018 18:31:19 GMT
They can't pour all resources into including every single type/trope/etc out there or they'd go bankrupt and we'd have no game worth playing. I don't think they'd be able to include EVERYONE in EVERY GAME. But Dragon age has had three games with no true Asexual representation, and it was only DAI before they made dedicated homosexual characters. Just like it's time for a Dwarf Romance, it could be time for a Transgendered or Asexual or polyamorous romance. Not expecting all three to be there. Yeah, this question is always weird to me. It's like asking, "why do we need straight male romances?? Why do we have to pour [this many] resources into those?" And the answer is... why not? People like (I'd say need) to see themselves represented in their favorite media. It says 'you belong here, your inclusion isn't particularly notable it's just a given' which is awesome, but shouldn't be restricted to just one or a few groups. Why not try new things?
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Post by eskiya on Feb 13, 2018 18:45:12 GMT
I don't think they'd be able to include EVERYONE in EVERY GAME. But Dragon age has had three games with no true Asexual representation, and it was only DAI before they made dedicated homosexual characters. Just like it's time for a Dwarf Romance, it could be time for a Transgendered or Asexual or polyamorous romance. Not expecting all three to be there. Yeah, this question is always weird to me. It's like asking, "why do we need straight male romances?? Why do we have to pour [this many] resources into those?" And the answer is... why not? People like (I'd say need) to see themselves represented in their favorite media. It says 'you belong here, your inclusion isn't particularly notable it's just a given' which is awesome, but shouldn't be restricted to just one or a few groups. Why not try new things? I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm a supporter of inclusion in all areas, be it media, education, etc. I'm just trying to look at it how a developer could be looking at it. I know there's the whole 'go after the main demographic for the money!!' thing. Which, that main demographic has been getting smaller as more people delve into games. The more minorities that play games, the more they'll be targeted by those games. Though the more they're represented the more they'll play... Ugh. Catch-22. =( I'm neither white, male, or straight. Would I like seeing someone like me in more games? Of course. I'd love to see everyone being represented equally across the board! It really sucks that a lot of factors prevent it. Prejudice, and money, included. I'm probably making no sense at tjis point...sorry.
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Post by phoray on Feb 14, 2018 1:05:46 GMT
We ended up having a problem with people skipping content and breaking some flow by stealthing through encounters and having the rest of the party teleport to that person so we had to add enemies that had the special ability to perceive stealth. 1. Skipping actual boss battles sort of content? if it's not a boss battle, why can't it be skipped? or can some other method, such as the Rebel Mages in the Hinterlands, you have a barrier to break through before you can get in, so the inner peons are very aware you're coming. Or only bosses having stealth perception. Can't hide from the Archdemon. 2. I guess since we don't have a stealth attribute we can control, it unfortunately nixes any head cannon of being such a good rogue you're invisible.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 14, 2018 2:24:59 GMT
We ended up having a problem with people skipping content and breaking some flow by stealthing through encounters and having the rest of the party teleport to that person so we had to add enemies that had the special ability to perceive stealth. 1. Skipping actual boss battles sort of content? if it's not a boss battle, why can't it be skipped? or can some other method, such as the Rebel Mages in the Hinterlands, you have a barrier to break through before you can get in, so the inner peons are very aware you're coming. Or only bosses having stealth perception. Can't hide from the Archdemon. 2. I guess since we don't have a stealth attribute we can control, it unfortunately nixes any head cannon of being such a good rogue you're invisible. Lots of role playing games allow players to sneak past bosses, Dues Ex and most Fallout games to name a few. Granted, not every party is built for it, but if some players to avoid combat through stealth and/or persuasion checks, why not let them? A good RPG should be built for multiple play styles, combat or not included.
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Post by melbella on Feb 14, 2018 2:45:14 GMT
I hate the teleporting party mechanic. When playing as a mage I usually wear the Ring of Doubt to make myself invisible and the teleport thing always happens!
I don't see the issue about skipping past combat encounters via stealth though. That's kinda what it's for. If "hold" actually worked in DAI, maybe it wouldn't be such a problem?
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Post by LukeBarrett on Feb 14, 2018 17:24:23 GMT
I hate the teleporting party mechanic. When playing as a mage I usually wear the Ring of Doubt to make myself invisible and the teleport thing always happens! It was a necessary evil to deal with active party switching - if you were to have your party on two sides of a large map, for example, and you swapped to the other one you would either have to see a loading screen or watch as the entire world streamed in all around you. Especially bad when considering PS3/X360 limitations at the time. I don't see the issue about skipping past combat encounters via stealth though. That's kinda what it's for. If "hold" actually worked in DAI, maybe it wouldn't be such a problem? Totally not a problem as a general concept, and yes as people have mentioned some games let you skip bosses too. This requires your game to be built on the premise that you're okay with people doing that - IF level progression is important AND you have fights that are mandatory you set up some Users to hit a situation where they mostly bypass content and are therefore very underleveled for a mandatory boss fight. I would be happy building around the notion that a party of characters that all had Stealth could bypass basically anything but having one person with stealth and the rest of your party using catchup teleport to bypass encounters is
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Post by Faust on Feb 14, 2018 20:47:08 GMT
People want to see themselves in their games/movies/etc. Which I completely understand, and I more than support the direction of inclusion in current games... But. There is a line that has to be drawn. Where do we stop self-inserting or demanding everything/everyone be represented and just go back to enjoying a good game? They can't pour all resources into including every single type/trope/etc out there or they'd go bankrupt and we'd have no game worth playing. I think the same, looks like people just don't care about that line Yeah, this question is always weird to me. It's like asking, "why do we need straight male romances?? Why do we have to pour [this many] resources into those?" And the answer is... why not? People like (I'd say need) to see themselves represented in their favorite media. It says 'you belong here, your inclusion isn't particularly notable it's just a given' which is awesome, but shouldn't be restricted to just one or a few groups. Why not try new things? "Why not" is not the answer, it's your answer, and it's weak. Anyway, about the Combat System, I use stealthing to save my team or avoid a random fight, I find it very practical. I would like to know more about how the combat system was created for inquisition, but I only found a vid about origins.
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 14, 2018 21:15:47 GMT
People want to see themselves in their games/movies/etc. Which I completely understand, and I more than support the direction of inclusion in current games... But. There is a line that has to be drawn. Where do we stop self-inserting or demanding everything/everyone be represented and just go back to enjoying a good game? They can't pour all resources into including every single type/trope/etc out there or they'd go bankrupt and we'd have no game worth playing. I think the same, looks like people just don't care about that line It's more that other people have different opinions about where that line "should" be drawn, or question why there has to be a line at all. It's easy to say that representation doesn't matter and they should "just focus on making a good game" when there are tons of conventional hetero romances in these games and you never have to wonder about being neglected by the devs lol. I have yet to see a decent rebuttal.
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Post by Faust on Feb 14, 2018 23:40:30 GMT
I think the same, looks like people just don't care about that line It's more that other people have different opinions about where that line "should" be drawn, or question why there has to be a line at all. It's easy to say that representation doesn't matter and they should "just focus on making a good game" when there are tons of conventional hetero romances in these games and you never have to wonder about being neglected by the devs lol. I have yet to see a decent rebuttal. Where did I say that representation doesn't matter ?? Explain what "conventional hetero romance" is ? And please, just because I'm straight doesn't mean that I'll take any romance just because the character has a dick. I don't think that being part of the minority or the majority gives you more or less right to express yourself on the topic of representation. When I wish for something in a game I try to see what it requires from the dev team and studio, the risks, the impact it can have on the story and on other players experience. That's what help me draw the line. I don't want bioware to be like "Ok guys, we need 3 warriors, 3 rogues, 3 mages, 2 gays, 2 straights, and don't forget the new specific minority !" On the "why not" topic. You want me to explain why it is not an acceptable answer ? Or why bioware shouldNT put to much resources on romance ?
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 15, 2018 0:06:58 GMT
It's more that other people have different opinions about where that line "should" be drawn, or question why there has to be a line at all. It's easy to say that representation doesn't matter and they should "just focus on making a good game" when there are tons of conventional hetero romances in these games and you never have to wonder about being neglected by the devs lol. I have yet to see a decent rebuttal. Where did I say that representation doesn't matter ?? Explain what "conventional hetero romance" is ? And please, just because I'm straight doesn't mean that I'll take any romance just because the character has a dick. I don't think that being part of the minority or the majority gives you more or less right to express yourself on the topic of representation. When I wish for something in a game I try to see what it requires from the dev team and studio, the risks, the impact it can have on the story and on other players experience. That's what help me draw the line. I don't want bioware to be like "Ok guys, we need 3 warriors, 3 rogues, 3 mages, 2 gays, 2 straights, and don't forget the new specific minority !" On the "why not" topic. You want me to explain why it is not an acceptable answer ? Or why bioware shouldNT put to much resources on romance ? Why I'm trying to say is that when they're divvying up romances, "the new specific minority" doesn't need to be treated any differently than "gotta make sure we have four heterosexual romances!" Do male LIs for female characters constitute a risk, do they 'have an impact on the story and on other players experience'? Who gets to decide where the line should be drawn? That's my point. It's not, "well, we need two male straight romances, two female straight romances, two bisexual romances, one asexual romance and a poly romance..." it's "why should some get a higher priority than others?" And by conventional hetero romance, I meant monogamous, sexual, heterosexual romances. Of which there have been many.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 15, 2018 1:52:28 GMT
I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a robust Screenshot Mode built into the next DA. I find the standalone "Cinematic Tools" for PC invaluable (if not always the most stable). Something with a detachable camera so you can move around and compose your shot, easily being able to toggle your HUD on & off, change FOV, filters, etc..
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Post by phoray on Feb 15, 2018 1:56:31 GMT
I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a robust Screenshot Mode built into the next DA. I find that the standalone "Cinematic Tools" for PC invaluable (if not always the most stable). Something with a detachable camera so you can move around and compose your shot, easily being able to toggle your HUD on & off, change FOV, filters, etc.. For some reason, I think it's a given. Especially since they make the players into walking picture taking/sharing advertisements for games that try to achieve high graphics
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Post by dazk on Feb 15, 2018 3:28:01 GMT
I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a robust Screenshot Mode built into the next DA. I find that the standalone "Cinematic Tools" for PC invaluable (if not always the most stable). Something with a detachable camera so you can move around and compose your shot, easily being able to toggle your HUD on & off, change FOV, filters, etc.. Assassins Creed Origins has this, its really great. It also pins a copy of the photo to the in-game map so others playing can see it.
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Post by Lazarillo on Feb 15, 2018 3:57:40 GMT
I was just thinking it'd be nice to have a robust Screenshot Mode built into the next DA. I find that the standalone "Cinematic Tools" for PC invaluable (if not always the most stable). Something with a detachable camera so you can move around and compose your shot, easily being able to toggle your HUD on & off, change FOV, filters, etc.. Heck, I'd be happy just for a one-key disable of the UI again, rather than having to use console commands. On a similar note, I would be oh so happy to witness a Dragon Age first: being able to disable subtitles in cutscenes but NOT in the ambience. In all the games so far, it's disable in ambience only, disable in cutscenes and ambience, or don't disable any. But ambience is where I miss more stuff, and cutscenes are where I want to not have anything on the screen, so I can take nice screenshots of the action! I don't understand why they did it the way they did.
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 15, 2018 7:34:44 GMT
Give my elves facial hair. Please. Don't care if it goes against the lore, just do it, it's dumb lore anyway.
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 15, 2018 15:31:17 GMT
Give my elves facial hair. Please. Don't care if it goes against the lore, just do it, it's dumb lore anyway. Nope , Dragon Age elves look too damn human as it is. What's the point in playing a non human race if you're going to strip away everything that make them alien in the first place?
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Post by witchcocktor on Feb 15, 2018 15:53:34 GMT
Give my elves facial hair. Please. Don't care if it goes against the lore, just do it, it's dumb lore anyway. Nope , Dragon Age elves look too damn human as it is. What's the point in playing a non human race if you're going to strip away everything that make them alien in the first place? Facial hairlessness makes them more alien?
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Post by Iakus on Feb 15, 2018 16:15:33 GMT
Give my elves facial hair. Please. Don't care if it goes against the lore, just do it, it's dumb lore anyway. Nope , Dragon Age elves look too damn human as it is. What's the point in playing a non human race if you're going to strip away everything that make them alien in the first place? Plus facial hair quality is...lacking...in any case
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Post by LukeBarrett on Feb 15, 2018 17:32:12 GMT
Heck, I'd be happy just for a one-key disable of the UI again, rather than having to use console commands. On a similar note, I would be oh so happy to witness a Dragon Age first: being able to disable subtitles in cutscenes but NOT in the ambience. In all the games so far, it's disable in ambience only, disable in cutscenes and ambience, or don't disable any. But ambience is where I miss more stuff, and cutscenes are where I want to not have anything on the screen, so I can take nice screenshots of the action! I don't understand why they did it the way they did. Having some kind of Photo Mode is starting to become much more common lately so hopefully that will exist for us, in some form. As for the subtitles thing I'll put a request in to at least provide the option for it . (neither of these things are owned in any way by my discipline so I'll merely be a proxy voice on behalf of this)
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Post by vertigomez on Feb 15, 2018 17:36:21 GMT
Nope , Dragon Age elves look too damn human as it is. What's the point in playing a non human race if you're going to strip away everything that make them alien in the first place? Plus facial hair quality is...lacking...in any case I have it on good authority that Blackwall stole all the beards and all the power held within.
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