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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 6, 2021 6:23:58 GMT
This is a point on which I could go either way. Ultimately, though, given that BioWare protags are always adults, we have to live with the fact that narrative decisions about their past are BioWare's to make, not ours. They aren't "our" characters until BioWare gives them to us, and if BioWare wants to say that they broke a leg when they were nine or rescued a cat out of a tree last year or stole a loaf of bread just five minutes ago, that's their right. In fact, BioWare already does this in every DA game, the protagonists all have families, relationships and established lives at the point that the games begin. It was the major marketing point of Origins.
Something I have proposed in the past is that the protag's backstory quest could be decided by the player as a result of questions they answer in an early conversation, similarly to how Witcher 3 opens or removes quests based on how the player responds in the bathtub interrogation scene.
That would allow for a measure of storytelling while still allowing the player some control.
I seem to recall that DAI already had some opportunities in dialogue around Haven and Skyhold for players to make some decisions about the backstory, even though it is broadly fixed.
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Post by gaycaravaggio on Aug 6, 2021 7:17:53 GMT
For me, I like getting stuff about our protagonist that is set-in-stone to some extent. I know a lot of people prefer blank slate protagonists, but it's just jarring with the voice acting to have our protagonist be almost completely up to interpretation. I prefer characters that feel more like a distinct character, that of course you can have make different choices and shape their temperament to some extent, but they're still them.
Yes, that approach can also be frustrating, if you shape a character that goes against canonical details of that character. But it just makes it an overall more enjoyable experience for me. I think I'm saying this because I found the Inquisitor inoffensive but bland. My ideal DA4 protagonist would be someone who is a bit more distinct like Hawke with who we are and our past connecting more directly to the story at hand but still allows us to have more choices in shaping the character ala the Inquisitor, such as race choice, background/faction choice, more options in how we can feel about our past and our role in the story, etc.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2021 10:22:15 GMT
For me, I like getting stuff about our protagonist that is set-in-stone to some extent. I know a lot of people prefer blank slate protagonists, but it's just jarring with the voice acting to have our protagonist be almost completely up to interpretation. I prefer characters that feel more like a distinct character, that of course you can have make different choices and shape their temperament to some extent, but they're still them. Yes, that approach can also be frustrating, if you shape a character that goes against canonical details of that character. But it just makes it an overall more enjoyable experience for me. I think I'm saying this because I found the Inquisitor inoffensive but bland. My ideal DA4 protagonist would be someone who is a bit more distinct like Hawke with who we are and our past connecting more directly to the story at hand but still allows us to have more choices in shaping the character ala the Inquisitor, such as race choice, background/faction choice, more options in how we can feel about our past and our role in the story, etc. I tend to agree though it is a balance because if you take it too far you get Alloy or Geralt. But then....well to put it bluntly BioWare has a pretty good track record with both kinds of protagonists. More established ones that did pretty great in and made deep RP experiences, Shepard, Ryder, Hawke. Blank Slates: The Inquisitor and Warden. I tend to view this kind of thing as sort of being well A. in terms of pure backstory as being a jumping off point. Use their backstory to serve as the start of your roleplay where you then fill in the blanks. Like with my Shepard being Ruthless and Earthborn being established as canon could be seen as restrctive, but then I have filled in an entire background for her filling it in which informs many of her relationships, attitudes, and choices. Its fun. And then B. again ideally you can give your protagonist a full character arc. Which the key in either case is to give the player dialogue options as often as you can which can give us the chance for input on the backstory or character arc, best example being the Inquisitor being asked by Josephine about their background and a lot of Ryder's choices could inform how he felt about the events and informed his character growth.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 460 Likes: 690
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690
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Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
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fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
BlueMarsalis79
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 6, 2021 11:00:36 GMT
I can't really comment on the Inquisitor but, in my opinion The Warden's superb, Shepard's superb, Hawke's alright, and Revan's just awful. So it's mixed results.
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Post by phoray on Aug 6, 2021 15:56:12 GMT
I hope they don’t have quests like that. I much prefer my character’s backstory to be up to interpretation. Having quests severely limits if not completely eliminates that. you love Merril and Hawke is pretty filled out.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 6, 2021 16:06:04 GMT
I hope they don’t have quests like that. I much prefer my character’s backstory to be up to interpretation. Having quests severely limits if not completely eliminates that. you love Merril and Hawke is pretty filled out. I don’t see what liking a companion has to do with the background of a protagonist being defined.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 20:02:49 GMT
I can't really comment on the Inquisitor but, in my opinion The Warden's superb, Shepard's superb, Hawke's alright, and Revan's just awful. So it's mixed results. Holy hell! May I ask why? Based on what SWTOR did to them, or from the actual original story and revelation? You can play Revan a lot of different ways, especially with mods
gaycaravaggio - I am with you on the voiced PC. They are not me, they are someone I am possessing. First playthrough I am a benevolent spirit, and guide this stranger into the Light like the fantasy goodie-two-shoes I wish I could be. If it is worth replays, eventually this pour soul will do awful things because I like to see it all o.0
It is a valid RP experience, as is the blank slate. The blank slate could be hybridized... what I most like about the blank slate is that the PC is voiceless, and that means my response is exactly the one I chose in the dialog wheel. Not BW's interpretation of my intentions, with a little subversion thrown in there because ... I mostly love Hawke and Shepard, but there are moments lost in translation, and some agency taken away with it.
I don't think "AAA" is going to do an un-voiced protag at this point, and that's ok. I am fine being a spirit, Cole has no idea...
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Post by colfoley on Aug 6, 2021 20:12:58 GMT
I can't really comment on the Inquisitor but, in my opinion The Warden's superb, Shepard's superb, Hawke's alright, and Revan's just awful. So it's mixed results. Holy hell! May I ask why? Based on what SWTOR did to them, or from the actual original story and revelation? You can play Revan a lot of different ways, especially with mods
gaycaravaggio - I am with you on the voiced PC. They are not me, they are someone I am possessing. First playthrough I am a benevolent spirit, and guide this stranger into the Light like the fantasy goodie-two-shoes I wish I could be. If it is worth replays, eventually this pour soul will do awful things because I like to see it all o.0
It is a valid RP experience, as is the blank slate. The blank slate could be hybridized... what I most like about the blank slate is that the PC is voiceless, and that means my response is exactly the one I chose in the dialog wheel. Not BW's interpretation of my intentions, with a little subversion thrown in there because ... I mostly love Hawke and Shepard, but there are moments lost in translation, and some agency taken away with it.
I don't think "AAA" is going to do an un-voiced protag at this point, and that's ok. I am fine being a spirit, Cole has no idea...
I'd say someone you are helping to write because possessing them is just plain weird.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 21:40:42 GMT
Have we met?
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mattjamho
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 253 Likes: 574
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 6, 2021 21:41:51 GMT
I loved Hawke as a character, but the way they handled the inquisitor worked well for multiple races. Having characters like Josie, Cass, & Vivienne ask about your background, and you get given a choice of options, helped with the role play aspect.
I’d be happy to see DAIs approach carry forward in DA4.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 460 Likes: 690
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Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
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fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 6, 2021 23:14:46 GMT
In the simplest terms, Revan's dialogue options in KOTOR really often suck, making them come across as a moron a lot of the time.
That said modifications do exist for the original to make Revan come across more pragmatic and intelligent in the majority of cases.
More in line with the descriptions of Revan from the sequel's narrative.
I also don't care for SWTOR's utilisation of them or the Exile.
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Post by phoray on Aug 7, 2021 19:16:22 GMT
I loved Hawke as a character, but the way they handled the inquisitor worked well for multiple races. Having characters like Josie, Cass, & Vivienne ask about your background, and you get given a choice of options, helped with the role play aspect. I’d be happy to see DAIs approach carry forward in DA4. But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 8, 2021 2:01:49 GMT
I loved Hawke as a character, but the way they handled the inquisitor worked well for multiple races. Having characters like Josie, Cass, & Vivienne ask about your background, and you get given a choice of options, helped with the role play aspect. I’d be happy to see DAIs approach carry forward in DA4. But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again. For some people, the point is simply to make choices about *their* character. That Josephine doesn't act on it is irrelevent. The choice in itself has value for them/is the point of roleplaying. I've seen the argument made, for example, that voiceless protag in DAO allowed for more rp freedom because you could apply any tone you wanted to any line. You or I might respond that "but the line is clearly sarcastic/an insult, because character xyz gets butthurt regardless of player intent", and the people who feel this way would then say "well I don't control character xyx so they are allowed to misunderstand my intent, that's the point of roleplaying".
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mattjamho
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 253 Likes: 574
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253
August 2016
matth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mattjamho on Aug 8, 2021 13:07:29 GMT
I loved Hawke as a character, but the way they handled the inquisitor worked well for multiple races. Having characters like Josie, Cass, & Vivienne ask about your background, and you get given a choice of options, helped with the role play aspect. I’d be happy to see DAIs approach carry forward in DA4. But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again. The point for me isn’t if it has any in game consequence, it’s about building your character’s story and personality. The options you chose don’t all need to have impactful outcomes, it just adds an extra layer of characterisation to the PC. The example of small meaningful consequence you gave is also very welcome, there’s no reason we can’t have both small character building conversations and impactful character choices.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 10, 2021 7:38:03 GMT
I loved Hawke as a character, but the way they handled the inquisitor worked well for multiple races. Having characters like Josie, Cass, & Vivienne ask about your background, and you get given a choice of options, helped with the role play aspect. I’d be happy to see DAIs approach carry forward in DA4. But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again. On this note to one of my favorite choices in DA 2 was the whole bit where during the middle of the Qunari assault on Kirkwall Orsino and Meredith are fighting and you get to choose between the three of you will lead the assault. Now my Hawke to this moment was pretty much a materialistic mercenary and just basically being out for herself and well I chose to have Hawke, this Hawke, take the lead herself. It wasn't even planned but this Hawke basically saw the two of them fighting with one another and decided to take responsibility for everything. Now she gets promoted to Champion of Kirkwall and gets a lot of power...but that happens anyways. This choice is never mentioned again but it had a lot of importance and set up her beocming more active in Kirkwall perfectly. But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again. For some people, the point is simply to make choices about *their* character. That Josephine doesn't act on it is irrelevent. The choice in itself has value for them/is the point of roleplaying. I've seen the argument made, for example, that voiceless protag in DAO allowed for more rp freedom because you could apply any tone you wanted to any line. You or I might respond that "but the line is clearly sarcastic/an insult, because character xyz gets butthurt regardless of player intent", and the people who feel this way would then say "well I don't control character xyx so they are allowed to misunderstand my intent, that's the point of roleplaying". But it literally didn't matter? Not like any of those replies we picked were ever again reflected later on. They didn't even really give us insight into the person asking the question. They may as well not have happened. It was like the bare minimum. More like, I meet a person from my "past" and immediately say if they're friend or foe. And it affects the flavor of an entire mission I'm forced to do with them. My choice to take the complete blame for the acts in the City Elf Origin meant that my 'cousin' lived to become jailed. That's reflection of prior choices in a small meaningful way. What Josephine asked was like, " what is your favorite color?" Then saying "interesting" and it never comes up again. She doesn't even get you your favorite color of cloth to represent your choice. It just never gets talked about again. The point for me isn’t if it has any in game consequence, it’s about building your character’s story and personality. The options you chose don’t all need to have impactful outcomes, it just adds an extra layer of characterisation to the PC. The example of small meaningful consequence you gave is also very welcome, there’s no reason we can’t have both small character building conversations and impactful character choices.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 10, 2021 19:10:15 GMT
For me, I like getting stuff about our protagonist that is set-in-stone to some extent. I know a lot of people prefer blank slate protagonists, but it's just jarring with the voice acting to have our protagonist be almost completely up to interpretation. I prefer characters that feel more like a distinct character, that of course you can have make different choices and shape their temperament to some extent, but they're still them. Yes, that approach can also be frustrating, if you shape a character that goes against canonical details of that character. But it just makes it an overall more enjoyable experience for me. I think I'm saying this because I found the Inquisitor inoffensive but bland. My ideal DA4 protagonist would be someone who is a bit more distinct like Hawke with who we are and our past connecting more directly to the story at hand but still allows us to have more choices in shaping the character ala the Inquisitor, such as race choice, background/faction choice, more options in how we can feel about our past and our role in the story, etc. While I get the appeal of a "blank slate" character, I do enjoy characters that feel like they actually lived life before we took the reigns, of course with a few details left up to us to determine for certain roleplaying bits (like past relationships, etc..). To this day, I think Hawke is still my favorite of the lot and was the most fun to play around with.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 460 Likes: 690
inherit
11686
0
690
FiendishlyInventive
460
Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
September 2020
fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 11, 2021 15:09:07 GMT
Don't make me use a goddamn website to decide what happened in the prior video games.
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Post by KaiserShep on Aug 11, 2021 15:57:54 GMT
Don't make me use a goddamn website to decide what happened in the prior video games. It’d be interesting to see something like the genesis comic used to recap the games as a means to select certain plot points going forward.
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Norstaera
N3
Stealth Swooper
This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 387 Likes: 748
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Stealth Swooper
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748
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This morning my husband said I was evil like June Cleaver. I cried a single tear of wicked happiness
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Bottom
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/3ead/s5mkgfa593ihxkkzg.jpg
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Norstaera on Aug 12, 2021 13:00:37 GMT
I like the Keep and hope they continue it. If they do, then we can use existing world states as background.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,109 Likes: 49,996
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Post by Iakus on Aug 12, 2021 17:20:06 GMT
Don't make me use a goddamn website to decide what happened in the prior video games. A downloadable offline version would be nice.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,851 Likes: 7,168
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Agent 46
177
0
7,168
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,851
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 12, 2021 18:05:41 GMT
I gotta admit that the Keep is a genius idea. They practically outsourced the manual correction of any faulty quest flags to the player base.
That said, I'd prefer if the next story was more self contained and didn't drag the baggage of two or three previous games along with it. Same world, new protagonist, new companions and hopefully somewhat new storyline.
And no fricking after credits teaser scene. Be content with a story actually ending. You're not Marvel, BioWare, and your characters don't quite have RDJ's charisma.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 12, 2021 18:37:02 GMT
I gotta admit that the Keep is a genius idea. They practically outsourced the manual correction of any faulty quest flags to the player base. That said, I'd prefer if the next story was more self contained and didn't drag the baggage of two or three previous games along with it. Same world, new protagonist, new companions and hopefully somewhat new storyline. And no fricking after credits teaser scene. Be content with a story actually ending. You're not Marvel, BioWare, and your characters don't quite have RDJ's charisma. I don’t mind an after credit scene as a teaser for the next game, so long as it remains only that and doesn’t go further to completely undo the story of the game it was in.
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FiendishlyInventive
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: BlueMarsalis79
Posts: 460 Likes: 690
inherit
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0
690
FiendishlyInventive
460
Sept 28, 2020 6:41:23 GMT
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fiendishlyinventive
https://i.imgur.com/rVwKOll.jpg
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by FiendishlyInventive on Aug 13, 2021 2:47:04 GMT
I believe in future proofing so if Bioware ever disappears, I do not want the save import feature to disappear with them when they eventually take the website away someday, just put it in the videogame itself please.
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Post by phoray on Aug 16, 2021 12:55:24 GMT
I believe in future proofing so if Bioware ever disappears, I do not want the save import feature to disappear with them when they eventually take the website away someday, just put it in the videogame itself please. I can get behind that. Like Witcher 3 scene or just straight up select your world state at the beginning like in MEA. (Although what gender your Shepard was was pretty light on importance)
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Post by fairdragon on Aug 16, 2021 14:25:33 GMT
and our dog directly showcased the qualities of the Mabari. Sorry i know this is an old post, but I can't leave it like this. If you Romance Cullen and play the dlc, you get a Mabari. And this Mabari is like the others. Intelligent and lively.
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