Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2018 22:25:08 GMT
I thought the goal was to move away from trinity play? Those are just the better skillsets for those classes in Inquisition, not what the classes have to be (except rogues, who are pretty much exclusively DPS). But it is a good example. When you use your abilities as a warrior for guard generation, it uses up a limited amount of resources (stamina, in this case) to use it. Rift mages have good mana regen, but most of it is used up to keep weakened on the enemies to continually regen that mana, and there are not many ways to generate more mana/stamina outside of regen, since willpower is no longer adding more to those resources, if I am not mistaken. The point is, it is not so much about not having enough abilities, but more about having enough mana/stamina to use the abilities you have. Personally, I never had a problem managing stamina (I almost always played warriors, mages simply weren't fun enough to play) but I can see the argument.
However, I see resource management as a challenge, not a hindrance. I don't mind the idea of having to, for example, swap out modal abilities depending on what I'm fighting. Or being selective in what abilities I use. In DAO, my Templar is not going to waste a Holy Smite power on a non-caster. He's going to target the darkspawn emissary with it (ideally before it traps someone in a Crushing Prison). But it would suck to not have it available just because "I only get right slots, and that's a situational power"
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2018 22:35:31 GMT
Being forced to min-max a game sucks. Just like for some others different combat systems in which we're forced to do other things suck no less. But we can't have everything we like at all times, can we? Yes, because we don't ever play Groundhog Day in games where we have access to way more skills, right? No, it's always winning! It's not like many of those abilities we have is just too weak to make much of a significant difference or we used all the wrong ones, wasting time and resources in the process or turning the whole fight into an annoying slog. Nope. I specifically pasted the whole comment to both avoid accusation of cherry-picking and show that liking or advocating for a certain playstyle doesn't mean one ain't aware of its shortcomings, or shortcomings specifically of DAI combat system. It's also interesting that somehow you find some sort of 'gotcha' moment in a part of comment that ain't really advocating for more skill slots (merely recognizing that barely 4 in MP may have been too little), only for smarter ability or ability tree design, which is something I can totally get behind. I wouldn't mind an additional slot or two - even if they're slots just for toggles or passives or ultimates/limit breaks/whatevs. That still makes for a compact, swift combat style. I am however more of a mind that instead of extending slot numbers, we should move towards combos/synergies, primers/detonators and additional combat mechanics: dodge, block, bash, climb, modify ability with charge time and so on. That in itself multiplies the amount of stuff we can do while keeping the fight brisk. Ah yes, my harsh TFTY in which I do something so outrageously egregious as... merely pointing out that something is just a matter of your personal preference. It wasn't even something particularly sarcastic or contentious and if you can't handle that, I don't think you can make any claims about someone else's mood or handling of particular exchange. Never mind that you were the one that butted into a response to somebody else when I was addressing a specific thing and were willing to continue responding to me. And now apparently I'm the one who's triggered and crawling up places Again - kindly stop projecting. Had a long response, but you know what, screw it. You can't argue with the "I'm happy so STFU" crowd.
I'm out.
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Post by midnight tea on May 4, 2018 23:07:12 GMT
The thing is, if you have extra ability slots, you can just...not use them. But if you are limited, you can't go the other way. That's why people get upset about it. Were people really clamoring for ability slots to be removed because they personally didn't use them all and only X% of people did? I suppose then you would also have a good case for LGBT romances to be removed, because only X% of people pursue those. No one is forcing those optional features on you, but they should exist for people who want to pursue them. Variability is one of the biggest strengths of RPGs. Closing games off too much destroys that. If this was as simple as 'you either have additional ability slots or you don't' there wouldn't be a notable difference in how these abilities or passives are designed, or the general pace of combat or different pressures put on a player when they design builds or gear characters or approach strategy. You're fooling yourself if you're thinking that number of ability slots has no impact on other aspects of the whole system. Whichever option you choose, there are different gains and losses. And before anybody jumps and accuses me of apparently hating the long ability bar - I'm not hating it. I welcome it in a game where it's part of a well designed system and fits the overall pace. Now I'm just contesting the idea that it's supposedly something easily implemented and they can be there and I can just... not use them, when even my layman eyes can see that the decision to stick to either long or short bar bears way more weight when it comes to designing the game. Also - comparing number of ability slots to LGBT content? Pulling those strings by implying the same strength of emotional attachment people have to rare and precious story content as they have to ability slots, huh? Needless to say no - I don't think people are attached to combat as they are to BW romances options and it's bizarre to claim so. If combat was so important, we wouldn't have 'narrative' mode. I'm just going to add that I'm somewhat tired of hearing that constrains mean lack of variety. As Orson Welles said decades ago - 'the enemy of art is the absence of limitations'. The older I am the smarter and more applicable to things outside of art this quote is, because one needs energy and creativity to overcome the constraint.
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Post by jaerick243 on May 4, 2018 23:22:35 GMT
Those are just the better skillsets for those classes in Inquisition, not what the classes have to be (except rogues, who are pretty much exclusively DPS). But it is a good example. When you use your abilities as a warrior for guard generation, it uses up a limited amount of resources (stamina, in this case) to use it. Rift mages have good mana regen, but most of it is used up to keep weakened on the enemies to continually regen that mana, and there are not many ways to generate more mana/stamina outside of regen, since willpower is no longer adding more to those resources, if I am not mistaken. The point is, it is not so much about not having enough abilities, but more about having enough mana/stamina to use the abilities you have. Personally, I never had a problem managing stamina (I almost always played warriors, mages simply weren't fun enough to play) but I can see the argument.
However, I see resource management as a challenge, not a hindrance. I don't mind the idea of having to, for example, swap out modal abilities depending on what I'm fighting. Or being selective in what abilities I use. In DAO, my Templar is not going to waste a Holy Smite power on a non-caster. He's going to target the darkspawn emissary with it (ideally before it traps someone in a Crushing Prison). But it would suck to not have it available just because "I only get right slots, and that's a situational power"
had to 'delete' my post, but I think you kind of are misunderstanding me. I was not saying it was a hindrance (completely), but that there is something to using abilities efficiently, and it is because of the limited stamina/mana you get. Using Sigils in DAI also harms the character more than it helps, as the sigil that adds to max stamina/mana also reduces regen rates for that stat. there are also certain combos that make the most efficient use of that mana/stamina we have. Constant regen is not useful when your abilities take 1/3-1/2 of the, even worse if you only have enough mana/stamina for that one ability.
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on May 4, 2018 23:26:46 GMT
The thing is, if you have extra ability slots, you can just...not use them. But if you are limited, you can't go the other way. That's why people get upset about it. Were people really clamoring for ability slots to be removed because they personally didn't use them all and only X% of people did? I suppose then you would also have a good case for LGBT romances to be removed, because only X% of people pursue those. No one is forcing those optional features on you, but they should exist for people who want to pursue them. Variability is one of the biggest strengths of RPGs. Closing games off too much destroys that. If this was so simple as 'you either have additional ability slots or you don't' there wouldn't be a notable difference in how these abilities or passives are designed, or the general pace of combat or different pressures put on a player when they design builds or gear characters or approach strategy. You're fooling yourself if you're thinking that number of ability slots has no impact on other aspects of the whole system. Whichever option you choose, there are different gains and losses. And before anybody jumps and accuses me of apparently hating the long ability bar - I'm not hating it. I welcome it in a game where it's part of a well designed system and fits the pace of the game. Now I'm just contesting the idea that it's supposedly something easily implemented and I can just... not use them, when even my layman eyes can see that the decision to stick to either long or short bar bears way more weight when it comes to designing the game. Also - comparing number of ability slots to LGBT content? Pulling those strings by implying the same strength of emotional attachment people have to rare and precious story content as they have to ability slots, huh? Needless to say no - I don't think people are attached to combat as they have to BW romances option and it's bizarre to claim so. If combat was so important, we wouldn't have easy mode. I'm just going to add that I'm somewhat tired of hearing that constrains mean lack of variety. As Orson Welles said decades ago - 'the enemy of art is the absence of limitations'. The older I am the smarter and more applicable to things outside of art this quote is, because one needs energy and creativity to overcome the constraint. Ummm they tried to cut corners with M/M romance content in their most recently released game. Guess you conviently forgot about anyway there is no point arguing with someone with your personality type. I think you just thrive on pushing your opinion on others. Give it a rest. Every thread you post in is the same way.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2018 23:37:53 GMT
Personally, I never had a problem managing stamina (I almost always played warriors, mages simply weren't fun enough to play) but I can see the argument.
However, I see resource management as a challenge, not a hindrance. I don't mind the idea of having to, for example, swap out modal abilities depending on what I'm fighting. Or being selective in what abilities I use. In DAO, my Templar is not going to waste a Holy Smite power on a non-caster. He's going to target the darkspawn emissary with it (ideally before it traps someone in a Crushing Prison). But it would suck to not have it available just because "I only get right slots, and that's a situational power"
had to 'delete' my post, but I think you kind of are misunderstanding me. I was not saying it was a hindrance (completely), but that there is something to using abilities efficiently, and it is because of the limited stamina/mana you get. Using Sigils in DAI also harms the character more than it helps, as the sigil that adds to max stamina/mana also reduces regen rates for that stat. there are also certain combos that make the most efficient use of that mana/stamina we have. Constant regen is not useful when your abilities take 1/3-1/2 of the, even worse if you only have enough mana/stamina for that one ability. Sure there's something to using abilities efficiently. That's why in previous games I would reserve certain attacks for certain types of enemies. But I think stamina (and mana) regen is even faster in DAI than in previous games. I never had a problem with running out of stamina in DAI. If I ever reached a point where I didn't have enough to activate an ability, it only took a couple of seconds to get it back. Efficiency was never really an issue.
I never used Sigils myself, the drawbacks were simply too great for the benefits received.
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Post by midnight tea on May 5, 2018 0:10:50 GMT
Ummm they tried to cut corners with M/M romance content in their most recently released game. Guess you conviently forgot about anyway there is no point arguing with someone with your personality type. I think you just thrive on pushing your opinion on others. Give it a rest. Every thread you post in is the same way. I'm expressing my opinion - I have no ability to push it on anyone on an open forum. You can always block or ignore my admittedly wall-of-texty arse if you find me sometimes disagreeing with someone as something so egregious or disruptive, despite me not being the only participant at any time I choose to join a discussion in supposedly 'every thread' I visit. Also, dude... the fact that they 'cut corners' with M/M romance in MEA doesn't make any of it any more applicable to what we were talking about. Now you're just - yes - pushing it (given it's the one thing you explicitly choose to focus on in your response), despite the comparison being forced at best and problematic at worst. It may be unintended, but it almost sounds like you want to say that enjoying or advocating short ability bar and supposedly 'denying' the long bar for others is as bad as... not wanting optional LGBT romance content or something?
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on May 5, 2018 0:18:25 GMT
Ummm they tried to cut corners with M/M romance content in their most recently released game. Guess you conviently forgot about anyway there is no point arguing with someone with your personality type. I think you just thrive on pushing your opinion on others. Give it a rest. Every thread you post in is the same way. I'm expressing my opinion - I have no ability to push it on anyone on an open forum. You can always block or ignore my admittedly wall-of-texty arse if you find me sometimes disagreeing with someone as something so egregious or disruptive, despite me not being the only participant at any time I choose to join a discussion in supposedly 'every thread' I visit. Also, dude... the fact that they 'cut corners' with M/M romance in MEA doesn't make any of it any more applicable to what we were talking about. Now you're just - yes - pushing it (given it's the one thing you explicitly choose to focus on in your response), despite the comparison being forced at best and problematic at worst. It may be unintended, but it almost sounds like you want to say that enjoying or advocating short ability bar and supposedly 'denying' the long bar for others is as bad as... not wanting optional LGBT romance content or something? Just want to clarify I'm not equating the 2. That was just an example of why you shouldn't do things solely based on player usage stats. Anyway I do apologize if I am being harsh. I typically avoid forum arguments. I don't really want to continue this particular discussion at this point but feel free to discuss with others.
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Post by themikefest on May 5, 2018 0:20:08 GMT
I never used Sigils myself, the drawbacks were simply too great for the benefits received. There are a few that I used that were useful.
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Post by midnight tea on May 5, 2018 0:33:23 GMT
Just want to clarify I'm not equating the 2. That was just an example of why you shouldn't do things solely based on player usage stats. Anyway I do apologize if I am being harsh. I typically avoid forum arguments. I don't really want to continue this particular discussion at this point but feel free to discuss with others. I'd agree with caution to not use stats as sole reason to design a system, only in this case I don't think that it's the sole reason. Anyway - it's not my intention to make people uncomfortable, so I'm sorry if I've made you feel that way and here's hoping we're going to stumble on each other on forum and the discussion will be less... contentious? for everybody involved.
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Post by midnight tea on May 5, 2018 0:34:28 GMT
I never used Sigils myself, the drawbacks were simply too great for the benefits received. There are a few that I used that were useful. Like?
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Post by themikefest on May 5, 2018 0:47:46 GMT
Sigil of the Revenant Sigil of the Bronto Sigil of the Deathroot
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Post by midnight tea on May 5, 2018 0:50:59 GMT
Sigil of the Revenant Sigil of the Bronto Sigil of the Deathroot Any particular build or class they're particularly effective on? I'll admit to experimenting little with sigils.
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Post by themikefest on May 5, 2018 1:06:06 GMT
Sigil of the Revenant Sigil of the Bronto Sigil of the Deathroot Any particular build or class they're particularly effective on? I'll admit to experimenting little with sigils. The first one I would apply to any class, but usually give to mages. The second for warriors, and the third for archers/dual rogues I have used others, but the three I mentioned have done well when I use them in my playthroughs
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Norstaera
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Post by Norstaera on May 8, 2018 15:38:43 GMT
Please re-add the ability to name saves, as both DAO and DA2 had. It's so much easier keeping track of things. My DAI save folder has a bunch of "Skyhold" saves at significant points. If I'm looking for something specific, I have to load each one. Yeah, I miss that too. I have DAI on the PC and have a couple of workarounds, if you're interested. - I create character folders for my quizzies and then subfolders for screenshots and saves. I move my best screenshots to the, wait for it, the character/screenshots folder. In saves I have subfolders:
- First time at Haven (I figure you don't really need to to identify the ones before that .
- LI at Haven
- 1st time at new locations
- last chance - templars or mages
- etc., etc., etc.
- Still have the character/saves folder BUT you do rename the save, in a limited fashion. Copy the save to your character/saves folder. Hit F2. Don't change anything, but at the end add a space and then (and I think you have to put it in (), type a brief description. When you hit [enter], you'll get a message about changing the file type might make it not work anymore. Ignore it and continue. Later, you can delete the saves that don't match up to the ones in your character/saves folder. I've even deleted all the saves, copied them from my folder back into the game directory (w/o changing the extension, keeping my description) and been able to play my game. The name change doesn't show ingame, but you probably have a better idea of what's going on and won't have to load too many saves to get where you want. You can also reference your save folder for the info. If you're worried about whether the saves will load, take out the descriptions so your file extension are back to the original DAI_____.das.
I HATED only having X number of active skills. It's immersion-breaking (why do I have to forget one skill to learn another?) and renders leveling up past a certain point useless. Why bother to learn more skills when you'll just have to discard something else you already know? I didn't like it either. It wouldn't have been so bad in DAI if you could change weapons (like ice staff to spirit staff) or tactics mid-battle. That only makes sense, to be able to adjust to the enemy we encounter (and of whom we are supposed to have no prior knowledge, in most cases). I felt I was forced to build my mages to have certain abilities in common so they were less likely to be useless in battle - especially if I only wanted to take one with me. And I never game them a staff that matched their specialty. I gave all of them Energy barrage and then fiery Vivienne got an ice staff, freezing Solas an electric staff, and Dorian a fire staff. Or whatever, you get the picture. Tactic slots shouldn't be tied to the active ability slots. In previous games you could set your tactics for each character, but hotkey abilities (1,2,....) independent of whether you used them in your tactics list. Firestorm is great, but I don't want Vivi using it except when I personally direct her to do so. I would rather hotkey it, or have it in an active ability slot to use at my discretion. Then in tactics I can set up all non-AoE spells. Tactics and when to use the abilities were not very well fleshed out, in my opinion. A general - Cassandra protects player X wasn't good enough. Too many times she stood there when she could be doing damage instead of ready to take it. So my wishlist includes making tactics better defined and more useful and not define what I can use in combat. -------------------------------------------------- On another note, I did like that your abilities had different expanded skills. Maybe they did more damage or they gave you buffs when you used them. I want to build up my attributes separately from my abilities. I do prefer X amount of willpower being needed to get a certain ability than having to take a certain ability in order to increase my willpower. I use some sigils (I don't remember which ones, off the top of my head). Your armour or character's buffs can counteract/balance some of the sigil's negatives. I thought their presence gave you an interesting choice: Do I sigil or do I not sigil? I really liked the trials as a way to individualize your gameplay further. Keep 'em in.
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2018 15:44:37 GMT
I HATED only having X number of active skills. It's immersion-breaking (why do I have to forget one skill to learn another?) and renders leveling up past a certain point useless. Why bother to learn more skills when you'll just have to discard something else you already know? I didn't like it either. It wouldn't have been so bad in DAI if you could change weapons (like ice staff to spirit staff) or tactics mid-battle. That only makes sense, to be able to adjust to the enemy we encounter (and of whom we are supposed to have no prior knowledge, in most cases). I felt I was forced to build my mages to have certain abilities in common so they were less likely to be useless in battle - especially if I only wanted to take one with me. And I never game them a staff that matched their specialty. I gave all of them Energy barrage and then fiery Vivienne got an ice staff, freezing Solas an electric staff, and Dorian a fire staff. Or whatever, you get the picture. Yeah, it sucked having to bring particular mages to particular dragon fights not for RP reasons, but because their specialties meant they'd be useless in certain fights.
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Post by vertigomez on May 8, 2018 15:49:16 GMT
I'm gonna go ahead wish for better/more armor for dwarves and qunari.
Especially qunari.
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Post by themikefest on May 9, 2018 2:17:11 GMT
I just started another playthrough of DAI. When facing the giant demon, the thing is able to fire a ball of electricity in whatever direction its aiming. When I saw it aim in my direction I started to move to the left to avoid the blast, but since I don't have the ability to run fast enough to avoid the blast, I took damage. I like to see that changed for the next game. Have the ability to run faster to avoid taking damage. A button that when pushed gives a burst of speed for a couple of seconds
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Post by midnight tea on May 9, 2018 9:21:16 GMT
I'm gonna go ahead wish for better/more armor for dwarves and qunari. Especially qunari. I'm assuming that the lack of dwarven/qunari armor or some of the funny stuff they did to proportions was because more races for PC were added in last year of game's development. After all, even if we assume that there will be a lot of NPC dwarves or qunari, the NPC armor is oftentimes different from all the options given or designed for PCs. So aside from not knowing what races we'd be able to play again, I think the armor selection will be directly correlated with whether they were in the game from the start or not.
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Post by midnight tea on May 9, 2018 9:30:53 GMT
I just started another playthrough of DAI. When facing the giant demon, the thing is able to fire a ball of electricity in whatever direction its aiming. When I saw it aim in my direction I started to move to the left to avoid the blast, but since I don't have the ability to run fast enough to avoid the blast, I took damage. I like to see that changed for the next game. Have the ability to run faster to avoid taking damage. A button that when pushed gives a burst of speed for a couple of seconds So basically - a dodge. Yeah, I'd like one too. I'm personally all for additional combat mechanics that are separate from abilities, that can make battlefield way more dynamic - block, dodge, bash, dash, sprint, climb, maybe even some form of double-jump if we're feeling fancy Anyway, fortunately for us, we have some signs that it's a matter that is at least being considered.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 8,213 Likes: 25,414
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on May 12, 2018 17:55:41 GMT
I'm sure I've listed this before but....remove slo-mo combat mode. No way should I run slower in combat than out of it.
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jaerick243
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 209 Likes: 252
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May 18, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jaerick243 on May 12, 2018 18:12:46 GMT
We also need companions to have a better role in gaining specializations, at least if they will share specializations with the player. If they will have their own specialization separate from the player, then that is fine, but there needs to be more to getting specializations that in DA 2.
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Post by Walter Black on May 12, 2018 19:29:04 GMT
We also need companions to have a better role in gaining specializations, at least if they will share specializations with the player. If they will have their own specialization separate from the player, then that is fine, but there needs to be more to getting specializations that in DA 2. My preferred method would be a hybrid of Origins and 2: all Companions have their own unique Specialization for individual personality and lore sake, but all base classes are versatile enough so they can perform multiple roles. Bring back archery and dual wielding warriors and heavy armor rogues and mages, even if they do have to take huge stat penalties.
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jaerick243
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 209 Likes: 252
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May 18, 2019 15:20:48 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by jaerick243 on May 12, 2018 20:09:13 GMT
We also need companions to have a better role in gaining specializations, at least if they will share specializations with the player. If they will have their own specialization separate from the player, then that is fine, but there needs to be more to getting specializations that in DA 2. My preferred method would be a hybrid of Origins and 2: all Companions have their own unique Specialization for individual personality and lore sake, but all base classes are versatile enough so they can perform multiple roles. Bring back archery and dual wielding warriors and heavy armor rogues and mages, even if they do have to take huge stat penalties. I would prefer that they come with their own specializations, but if they shared specs with the player, they need to be more than in Inquisition. I personally prefer a quest to gain specializations rather than just having them pop up at a certain level, as if hawke learned them all (for their class) just because.
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Post by themikefest on May 13, 2018 2:29:38 GMT
Sure. Why is it when the Inquisitor has their weapon out, they run slower? Why can't he/she run the same speed as when they don't have their weapon in hand?
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