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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 15, 2019 12:49:44 GMT
Jason Schreier makes an appearance: - I keep seeing people spread this idea that EA forced BioWare to make an online game. Not true. EA actually gives its studios a lot of autonomy. Executive pressure is more subtle than "Make this game!" - it's resource maneuvering and "Where's your version of FIFA Ultimate Team?" - YouTubers propagate the narrative that EA forced BioWare to make a Destiny clone, which is very much false. EA's pressures are more subtle and complicated than that. - (responding to a statement which said EA forced Bioware to ship early) That's true. Having to plan releases around a fiscal calendar is totally fucked up and unsustainable. But, on the flip side, the game had been in development since 2012-2013. Not unreasonable for EA executives to look at that timeline and say enough is enough - "Where's your version of FIFA Ultimate Team?" doesn't mean that every game literally has to do playing cards and loot boxes. It means "Where's your long-term revenue stream?" EA isn't interested in putting big money into video games unless they can have a revenue tail - that's not EA going to BioWare and saying "you need to make us a Destiny clone" - it's EA saying "if you want resources, show us how your game is going to make long-term revenue." Huge difference there! - (in response to a question asking whether Anthem was meant to be Bioware's long term revenue cow so they can continue DA and ME) Nah. DA4 was rebooted to be a live service game too - Assassin's Creed Odyssey is a single-player game with a live revenue stream. EA studios get plenty of pressure to do online stuff, but it's not like Andrew Wilson came to BioWare and said "make a Destiny clone." BioWare's leadership chose this path. - (Asked whether Anthem had problems with Frostbite and if EA can still force devs to use it even with all the problems) Yes and yes.Been saying for a while that there is something very wrong with Bioware's project management and talent these days seeing how much development time they get and how underwhelming the results are... While one could deduce from Schreier's post that Anthem was perhaps rebooted halfway through development from a singleplayer shooter to a GaaS looter shooter they obviously were ill equipped to pull off well just to appease EA's non specific pressuring, there is no excuse for bad game design. Get new talent who can do what you want to do. TALK to people who have experience, LEARN from them. Horizon Zero Dawn is proof that you can do something you have no experience with and do it very well IF YOU CONSULT THE BEST IN THE BUSINESS. How Anthem released with the exact same issues as looter shooters from ten years ago is just mind boggling. Either they live in a total bubble where they keep grossly overestimating their competences or they rebooted Anthem way too late to pull of something better than what we got. In either case, that's on Bioware.
To your point, Travis Day responded within what, a week or two, identifying numerous issues and giving concrete suggestions to fix them. That Bioware's entire team either couldn't identify or didn't care about these issues over a much longer period of time (presumably) when designing this game puts the period on what you're saying. It's issues like these that eliminate any confidence I might have had that Anthem can turn around over time.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 15, 2019 12:53:50 GMT
Ok, so it's pretty much obvious now that the damage and scaling system needs a complete overhaul.
It's also obvious why we don't have any way to view our characters stats. They are just trying to hide how broken the system is.
Anyways, this game won't be finished with next 12 month either.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Mar 15, 2019 13:04:31 GMT
It's hilarious how much damage is inflicted in an Anthem fighty... it's over 9 millions! I couldn't inflict more than several thousands at the end of BL 2 tbh.
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 15, 2019 13:16:29 GMT
Having played both Anthem and only a few hours of Division 2, I am going to have to agree wholeheartedly with this video:
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 15, 2019 14:32:20 GMT
Man, Ubisoft games look good... I'm really starting to hate the Frostbite look. To me TD2 looks way better than Anthem. The reflection on the water in that one flooded building, holy shit. That's impressive. I don't like realistic shooters, so I have zero interest in TD2, but graphics are top notch! I also dig post apocalyptic.
Can somebody make a space magic game Bioware style but in a competent fashion? Thank you!
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 15, 2019 14:38:15 GMT
Man, Ubisoft games look good... I'm really starting to hate the Frostbite look. To me TD2 looks way better than Anthem. The reflection on the water in that one flooded building, holy shit. That's impressive. I don't like realistic shooters, so I have zero interest in TD2, but graphics are top notch! I also dig post apocalyptic. Can somebody make a space magic game Bioware style but in a competent fashion? Thank you! Destiny 3 is shaping up to be similar, stay tuned.
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 15, 2019 14:44:39 GMT
Don't forget Borderlands 3
Handsome Jack had way more impact as a villain than the Monitor did.
EDIT:
Oh, and there's also Beyond Good & Evil 2 in the works at Ubisoft.
That will certainly have high degrees of space magic.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 15, 2019 14:52:28 GMT
Man, Ubisoft games look good... I'm really starting to hate the Frostbite look. To me TD2 looks way better than Anthem. The reflection on the water in that one flooded building, holy shit. That's impressive. I don't like realistic shooters, so I have zero interest in TD2, but graphics are top notch! I also dig post apocalyptic. Can somebody make a space magic game Bioware style but in a competent fashion? Thank you! I’d love for someone to do a division game set in shadowrun Chicago circa bug city. Not space magic but hear future magic. And hell bullet sponge enemies actually fit the lore. And I dont even like the mp looter shooter genre of game.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 15, 2019 15:05:08 GMT
Vortex13 Never played Borderlands! I keep hearing good things about it. Looter shooters just aren't really my thing. I'm kind of curious about Rage 2. Looks fun as hell and it's singleplayer. Buying it might depend on whether or not I need a Bethesda account for the console version too.
Is Beyond Good & Evil REALLY coming soon? I believe it when I see it!
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 15, 2019 15:17:35 GMT
Vortex13 Never played Borderlands! I keep hearing good things about it. Looter shooters just aren't really my thing. I'm kind of curious about Rage 2. Looks fun as hell and it's singleplayer. Buying it might depend on whether or not I need a Bethesda account for the console version too.
Is Beyond Good & Evil REALLY coming soon? I believe it when I see it!
Borderlands 2 is really great in terms of world building and story. You're character doesn't really have much impact on how things go, but thats par the course for the looter-shooter genre. The game's sense of humor is really hit or miss though; some people love it and others can't stand it. Personally, Claptrap is about the most annoying NPC in-game. I've seen a couple of videos for Rage 2, it certainly looks interesting, but I'm not too sure on how it will play out. I did hear about concerns that Bethesda might be putting loot boxes in it though for micro transaction revenue, so keep that in mind. And BG&E 2 doesn't have a release date yet granted, but the gameplay footage they've shown off looks promising. Seriously, it's a pre, pre, pre Alpah tech demo essentially and it already looks on par with post release Anthem in terms of visuals and freedom of movement.
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Post by bigbad on Mar 15, 2019 15:21:16 GMT
Anyways, this game won't be finished with next 12 month either. Pretty sure the game is already finished. As in kaput.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 15, 2019 15:30:29 GMT
I've seen a couple of videos for Rage 2, it certainly looks interesting, but I'm not too sure on how it will play out. I did hear about concerns that Bethesda might be putting loot boxes in it though for micro transaction revenue, so keep that in mind. Yeah, I'm pretty disgusted with Bethesda right now. Which is why I thought getting it on console rather than PC could be a way to boycott their account no refunds nonsense. And if the game sucks I can at least sell it... let's see what the final prodcut is like.
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Post by lennybusker on Mar 15, 2019 15:38:44 GMT
Man, Ubisoft games look good... I'm really starting to hate the Frostbite look. To me TD2 looks way better than Anthem. The reflection on the water in that one flooded building, holy shit. That's impressive. I don't like realistic shooters, so I have zero interest in TD2, but graphics are top notch! I also dig post apocalyptic. Can somebody make a space magic game Bioware style but in a competent fashion? Thank you! There are two reasons I'm holding back on The Division 2 even though from everything I've seen (and played in the beta weekend) I'm definitely gonna grab it. One is that I'm in the middle of Breath of the Wild and you don't just put down a masterpiece like that for something that's just "pretty good". Two is that I actually hate the look of the setting for TD2, I muuuuuuuuuch preferred the snowy and dismal gloominess of NYC in the first game. But mechanically it looks like they've knocked it out of the park and any of the minor issues the game has right now are a matter of simple bugfixes and numerical adjustments rather than a complete core overhaul like what Anthem needs.
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Post by 10k on Mar 15, 2019 15:41:44 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum?
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 15, 2019 15:54:10 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum? Problem is, if they drop their second game in a row like hot potatoes that's REALLY bad press. People will lose all faith in them. I mean those left who still trust them to deliver. They NEED to make an effort here at least. I don't believe they will turn this around. But they can't abandon Anthem so quickly.
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Post by Vortex13 on Mar 15, 2019 16:10:16 GMT
What's really crazy is that BioWare had six years with Anthem, five with Andromeda, and both titles still turned out unpolished/unfinished and buggy. That BioWare literally abandoned Andromeda after only a few months; with no SP DLC in the works; and that they are now retreating from public discussion about the state Anthem isn't really leaving me with a lot of confidence in the longevity of this new IP. The fact that Anthem was being helmed by their veteran 'A Team' doesn't really help in that regard either. Meanwhile, the Division 2 was developed in only three years and released as a(n almost) feature complete sequel that both built off of the successes of the first game, but also addresses nearly every complaint people had about the original as well.
Now I will grant it that the Division 2 has the benefit of building off of a pre-existing framework with the first game, but even the Division 1 was more complete of a game at launch (as lackluster as it was) than Anthem is nearly a month later.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 15, 2019 16:20:32 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum? I agree, they need to go full FF14 reboot or drop it and move on to something more promising. The thing is, if they've determined to drop it, the silence and trickle of poor quality updates/content is consistent with what we'd see. So maybe they've already made this decision.
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Post by lennybusker on Mar 15, 2019 16:29:49 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum? They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over.
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Post by 10k on Mar 15, 2019 17:04:16 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum? They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over. Lol what? So is the live service team the ones who are updating the game now? Wow this is crazy.
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Post by lennybusker on Mar 15, 2019 17:33:31 GMT
They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over. Lol what? So is the live service team the ones who are updating the game now? Wow this is crazy. That's how most live service games handle dev resources. Destiny's the same way, Andromeda was the same way as well. That's why fundamental fuckups take so much longer to fix, because the live service team can only do minor shit like update spreadsheets and cosmetics and minor DLC. They have to basically go request the core designer's help to fix anything major.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 15, 2019 17:51:27 GMT
More and more news just keep coming about Anthem. I truly think BW or EA should just pull the plug at this point. Or reduce production down to a skeleton crew, so more hands can get thrown onto DA4. BW needs a win, and DA4 could possibly be their last chance. There are just better options for a looter-shooter. BW needs to focus on what they are good at, and put there best people in action. If BW disappears I wonder what will happen to this forum? They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over. Mike Gamble won't even field questions on Anthem anymore, he just points to Ben or the live services guy. Why do you think that is? I suspect he and a large team have shifted to DA4. That reminds me, didn't anyone else think it was hella weird when at the game awards, the interviewer asked Casey a question about Anthem, and Casey started hyping up Dragon Age instead? I wonder if they started shifting their eggs to that basket even before launch.
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Post by bigbad on Mar 15, 2019 18:04:09 GMT
They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over. That reminds me, didn't anyone else think it was hella weird when at the game awards, the interviewer asked Casey a question about Anthem, and Casey started hyping up Dragon Age instead? I wonder if they started shifting their eggs to that basket even before launch. Seems plausible. Whatever else they might be, they're not dumb. They knew exactly what the state of the game was when it launched. Maybe they felt that devoting serious resources to it would not provide a good return on investment. Who knows, though.
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Post by tatann on Mar 15, 2019 18:05:08 GMT
Man, Ubisoft games look good... I'm really starting to hate the Frostbite look. To me TD2 looks way better than Anthem. The reflection on the water in that one flooded building, holy shit. That's impressive. I don't like realistic shooters, so I have zero interest in TD2, but graphics are top notch! I also dig post apocalyptic. Can somebody make a space magic game Bioware style but in a competent fashion? Thank you! I don't think realistic shooters have drones that heal you and turrets that shoot electric darts and flames, but I get it ;-) I still prefer sci-fi games, but to me The Division has "enough sci-fi" for my kicks cause I tend to play engineer classes (so drones, turrets and electric skills) more than "space magic" classes
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Post by General Mahad on Mar 15, 2019 18:21:56 GMT
Don't forget Borderlands 3 Handsome Jack had way more impact as a villain than the Monitor did. EDIT: Oh, and there's also Beyond Good & Evil 2 in the works at Ubisoft. That will certainly have high degrees of space magic. The fact that we are still talking about Handsome Jack seven years later is a testament to how well written the character was and how well done the games were.
The monitor was a one note generic villain who does the whole play nice at first then kill evil shtick.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 15, 2019 18:36:23 GMT
They already have though. The main dev team has moved on and the Live Services team has taken over. Mike Gamble won't even field questions on Anthem anymore, he just points to Ben or the live services guy. Why do you think that is? I suspect he and a large team have shifted to DA4. Snip
Indeed. Expect DA4 to be a live service game because EA wants revenue from the tail end of any future game.
DA4 as a live service game and MP means Bio will lay a another turd, imo.
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