kalasaurus
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Post by kalasaurus on Oct 31, 2016 21:11:42 GMT
Ok, I'm not getting into this lol. I guess it all comes down to a matter of different perspectives, but regardless of his motivations, lying to blow up a chantry is a big lie. Virtually he says the truth: "It easy to support the freedom, if no one died to achive it." This is quite clearly, as I see, no lie. Hawke an see the truth, if s/he want to see the truth, and can remain blind and innocent, if s/he want. It's skirting around the truth and being purposefully vague. Solas does the same thing.
I suppose one could argue that it's a matter of semantics and what a definition of a "lie" is. Is a lie by omission a lie? That sort of thing. |
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Post by Catilina on Oct 31, 2016 21:24:55 GMT
Virtually he says the truth: "It easy to support the freedom, if no one died to achive it." This is quite clearly, as I see, no lie. Hawke an see the truth, if s/he want to see the truth, and can remain blind and innocent, if s/he want. It's skirting around the truth and being purposefully vague. Solas does the same thing.
I suppose one could argue that it's a matter of semantics and what a definition of a "lie" is. Is a lie by omission a lie? That sort of thing. Yes, thats okay, I understand, and at first time was a big surprise, but I can't say, this was too bad... was worse, that he don't wanted to trust him. You right. But finally I understood the reason, and I did not feel disappointed. And Anders never leave Hawke, if s/he don't want it.
I never done Solas romance. I have a femLavellan who created for him (at lvl12 now), but I dont know, when I will play with her again). |
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kalasaurus
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Post by kalasaurus on Oct 31, 2016 21:34:36 GMT
It's skirting around the truth and being purposefully vague. Solas does the same thing.
I suppose one could argue that it's a matter of semantics and what a definition of a "lie" is. Is a lie by omission a lie? That sort of thing. Yes, thats okay, I understand, and at first time was a big surprise, but I can't say, this was too bad... was worse, that he don't wanted to trust him. You right. But finally I understood the reason, and I did not feel disappointed. And Anders never leave Hawke, if s/he don't want it.
I never done Solas romance. I have a femLavellan who created for him (at lvl12 now), but I dont know, when I will play with her again). Indeed, I also understand, from a story perspective, why Anders (and Solas, for that matter) didn't outright tell the Hawke (and the Inquisitor) the truth. I mean, there's an off-chance that the player/protagonist would agree and not have a problem with it. But, that wouldn't be as interesting in my opinion! The big plot reveals in both DA2 and Inquisition were really well done, and I love Anders and Solas for it  I recommend giving the Solas romance a shot, if you ever go back to that femLavellan. It's a short romance, but beautifully done. I'm a sucker for tragedy. |
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Oct 31, 2016 21:38:27 GMT
Indeed, my reasoning was clouded by the smokescreen of friendship/romance with Anders. There were, of course, a lot of glaring red-flags to Anders' inevitable betrayal, but, like in real life, I tend to let things like friendship/loving someone prevent me from seeing their less desirable attributes. Also, I bolded the lie mentioned by Catilina- that's a really big thing to lie about! I think it's okay to be upset about that  . I think he's a great character, but on my first playthrough I was really blindsided! Oh yeah... I only picked Solas because I was playing as a super-elfy Lavellan and it fit role-playing wise... but then I really came to love him! But, oh man, was it a roller-coaster haha. I practically had a meltdown on the Solas thread trying to mend my broken heart. Damn you, Solas! He had reason to lie. And later he told, that he lied about the indirigents and the separating, and that why he lied about it. It was never in question, that the freedom of the Mages is more important to him, than anything and anyone else.
He also refers to what he wanted, only vaguely. Not to say we disagree, but I wouldn't quite say it's more important than his love for Hawke, but that it's tied into it. He loves Hawke, but as long as the abusive establishment tormenting his people stands he can't be with them freely. It's like a contradiction. He needs Hawke's help but doesn't want to make them a guilty party and assumes they'd try to stop him if he told the "whole" truth -- because he believes Hawke is a good person. So he wants to be with Hawke and help the mages, but has to do a horrible thing to do it, which will make Hawke hate him... in his head. (Maybe he'd prefer Hawke to be angry, a last attempt to push them away.) Anders doesn't believe, in the end, that he can have both and so "sides" with his cause.
As it is, no, I didn't feel betrayed or angry. Perhaps more... disappointed. |
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Post by Catilina on Oct 31, 2016 21:47:00 GMT
Yes, thats okay, I understand, and at first time was a big surprise, but I can't say, this was too bad... was worse, that he don't wanted to trust him. You right. But finally I understood the reason, and I did not feel disappointed. And Anders never leave Hawke, if s/he don't want it.
I never done Solas romance. I have a femLavellan who created for him (at lvl12 now), but I dont know, when I will play with her again). Indeed, I also understand, from a story perspective, why Anders (and Solas, for that matter) didn't outright tell the Hawke (and the Inquisitor) the truth. I mean, there's an off-chance that the player/protagonist would agree and not have a problem with it. But, that wouldn't be as interesting in my opinion! The big plot reveals in both DA2 and Inquisition were really well done, and I love Anders and Solas for it I recommend giving the Solas romance a shot, if you ever go back to that femLavellan. It's a short romance, but beautifully done. I'm a sucker for tragedy. In the Inquisition I have not found that feeling in the romances, like I feel with Anders and Fenris. I like happy end, but a little drama good for spice. |
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kalasaurus
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Post by kalasaurus on Oct 31, 2016 21:52:33 GMT
Indeed, I also understand, from a story perspective, why Anders (and Solas, for that matter) didn't outright tell the Hawke (and the Inquisitor) the truth. I mean, there's an off-chance that the player/protagonist would agree and not have a problem with it. But, that wouldn't be as interesting in my opinion! The big plot reveals in both DA2 and Inquisition were really well done, and I love Anders and Solas for it I recommend giving the Solas romance a shot, if you ever go back to that femLavellan. It's a short romance, but beautifully done. I'm a sucker for tragedy. In the Inquisition I have not found that feeling in the romances, like I feel with Anders and Fenris. I like happy end, but a little drama good for spice. That's understandable. We all have our preferences. I don't really have a "canon"/favorite romance in DA2 like I do in DA: I for Solas. They're all interesting/good romances in their own way in DA2, but I didn't experience the same draw. |
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Post by Catilina on Oct 31, 2016 22:05:41 GMT
He had reason to lie. And later he told, that he lied about the indirigents and the separating, and that why he lied about it. It was never in question, that the freedom of the Mages is more important to him, than anything and anyone else.
He also refers to what he wanted, only vaguely. Not to say we disagree, but I wouldn't quite say it's more important than his love for Hawke, but that it's tied into it. He loves Hawke, but as long as the abusive establishment tormenting his people stands he can't be with them freely. It's like a contradiction. He needs Hawke's help but doesn't want to make them a guilty party and assumes they'd try to stop him if he told the "whole" truth -- because he believes Hawke is a good person. So he wants to be with Hawke and help the mages, but has to do a horrible thing to do it, which will make Hawke hate him... in his head. (Maybe he'd prefer Hawke to be angry, a last attempt to push them away.) Anders doesn't believe, in the end, that he can have both and so "sides" with his cause.
As it is, no, I didn't feel betrayed or angry. Perhaps more... disappointed. Yes, he said: would be worst if he know, that Hawke help him in this. As I see (in the friendship) he believe, that Hawke as a good person, yes. He was so sad, after the blow, and don't hoped, that Hawke will spare his life (and will forgive him) And... it's also imaginable, that he don't want to "corrupting" Hawke, as for example (at least in his head) he did it with Justice. Maybe. It's depend on the personality. Probably I am more prone to sudden anger ... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 21:38:41 GMT
Yeah, if you decide to pursue Fenris DO NOT FLIRT WITH ANYONE ELSE! That is one well known bug... Oh, what happens, the romance does not initiate? I guess, I will romance Anders then. |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 5, 2017 21:49:48 GMT
Yeah, if you decide to pursue Fenris DO NOT FLIRT WITH ANYONE ELSE! That is one well known bug... Oh, what happens, the romance does not initiate? I guess, I will romance Anders then. When he come to Hawke, and spoke, he will sad, turn around and go away. And: If you don't have enough approve (friendship/rivelry, no matter), he will not finish the romance. He is the most hard romance, but I think, worth it. But I think, Anders also. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2017 1:56:21 GMT
Oh, what happens, the romance does not initiate? I guess, I will romance Anders then. When he come to Hawke, and spoke, he will sad, turn around and go away. And: If you don't have enough approve (friendship/rivelry, no matter), he will not finish the romance. He is the most hard romance, but I think, worth it. But I think, Anders also. Yes, I see what you mean. It is hard to gain either Friendship or Rivalry points with Fenris, because he approves/disapproves equally. Well, whatever happens, happens. I am not big on trying to create artificial conditions. :) |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 6, 2017 2:11:07 GMT
When he come to Hawke, and spoke, he will sad, turn around and go away. And: If you don't have enough approve (friendship/rivelry, no matter), he will not finish the romance. He is the most hard romance, but I think, worth it. But I think, Anders also. Yes, I see what you mean. It is hard to gain either Friendship or Rivalry points with Fenris, because he approves/disapproves equally. Well, whatever happens, happens. I am not big on trying to create artificial conditions. If you want rivalry with him, you need some rivalry state at Act 2, when you give him the first gift, because the gift got friendship as default, only he give rivalry for the gift, if Hawke already on rival state with him. For ffulfilled love Hawke need 100% friendship/rivalry with him. The neutrality is the worst state. This mean: Hawke don't care about the companion. |
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Post by phoray on Feb 8, 2017 3:29:38 GMT
Indeed, I also understand, from a story perspective, why Anders (and Solas, for that matter) didn't outright tell the Hawke (and the Inquisitor) the truth. I mean, there's an off-chance that the player/protagonist would agree and not have a problem with it. But, that wouldn't be as interesting in my opinion! The big plot reveals in both DA2 and Inquisition were really well done, and I love Anders and Solas for it I recommend giving the Solas romance a shot, if you ever go back to that femLavellan. It's a short romance, but beautifully done. I'm a sucker for tragedy. In the Inquisition I have not found that feeling in the romances, like I feel with Anders and Fenris. I like happy end, but a little drama good for spice. Blackwall isn't enough spice? |
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Post by Catilina on Feb 8, 2017 10:07:40 GMT
In the Inquisition I have not found that feeling in the romances, like I feel with Anders and Fenris. I like happy end, but a little drama good for spice. Blackwall isn't enough spice? I don't know Blackwall romance, but I think, don't beat Anders'... |
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Post by GalentheYounger on Jul 5, 2021 2:20:30 GMT
I was actually looking up this topic again as I prepared to replay this game for the first time in nearly 6 years, and I stumbled upon my own question.
I look back at this thread and see teenage me asking a question that young adult me also is asking again, but this time I will make a different decision.
In light of what happened with Anders, and with some new life experience, I think Fenris is the better pick. He is more respectful, he is not manipulative, and he does not force you to agree with his every thought. With some real life relationship experience under my belt now, I think that Fenris is simply the better and more adult choice.
I did enjoy Anders' though, from what I remember! But I think I am ready to give Hawke the happy ending she deserves with a guy who deserves her this time.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 5, 2021 21:52:24 GMT
I said he's not for everyone.
I just prefer his romance – while Fenris' romance is great too.
Both romances are passionate.
Both romances have a rollercoaster phase. (Anders' rather off-screen)
And Anders' romance also has "happy end"-ish end. Hard romance – probably will be always hard: nightmares, selfblame etc, but seems in Inquisition: they still love each other.
So: I understand you, but I deny Anders' romance is just sad.
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Post by phoray on Jul 16, 2021 19:26:09 GMT
In light of what happened with Anders, and with some new life experience, I think Fenris is the better pick. He is more respectful, he is not manipulative, and he does not force you to agree with his every thought. With some real life relationship experience under my belt now, I think that Fenris is simply the better and more adult choice. *high five* Fenris is amazing. you have to metagame to get him locked into the friend path enough if you are mage leaning, but it's worth it, imo. |
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Post by Catilina on Jul 16, 2021 22:55:54 GMT
In light of what happened with Anders, and with some new life experience, I think Fenris is the better pick. He is more respectful, he is not manipulative, and he does not force you to agree with his every thought. With some real life relationship experience under my belt now, I think that Fenris is simply the better and more adult choice. *high five* Fenris is amazing. you have to metagame to get him locked into the friend path enough if you are mage leaning, but it's worth it, imo. I agree, Fenris is amazing, but you don't have to metagame to befriend him with a pro-freedom mage. It's a little harder (to rp) as a non-mage with Bethany in the Circle, if Fenris were in Gallows with Bethany and confronted her in Act1.
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. I think he's a great character, but on my first playthrough I was really blindsided!
