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Post by warden on Mar 21, 2018 0:02:24 GMT
In Inquisition the idiot ball was tossed in the Grey Wardens hands, who do you think this time will have it?
the qunari?
the Tevinter Magisterium?
the Elves?
(this options are just my speculation)
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coldsteelblue
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Post by coldsteelblue on Mar 21, 2018 0:09:47 GMT
I'm going with either: The Archon The Black Divine Or Solas himself, as I think otherwise he's going to be too powerful a character, but that's a discussion for another time.
Just my opinion
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 21, 2018 0:28:42 GMT
Solas already has a far firmer grip on the idiot ball than he does on the Orb he stupidly gave to Corypheus, and I expect him to keep hold of it in DA4.
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Post by MediocreOgre on Mar 21, 2018 1:01:46 GMT
Solas.
But since it wasn’t just the Grey Wardens who possessed the idiot ball (Cory, the mages/templars, Bianca, Solas, The Advisors (solas was suspicious as hell from the get go), Orlais, teagan trespasser) my bet is that the whole plot is: everyone is dumb and the murder knife is still missing, good luck.
But Solas will be the most obvious.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 21, 2018 1:17:21 GMT
The dalish. Almost assuredly.
It makes ZERO sense that they would want to follow their religions literal Satan, but I fully expect Bioware to have them committed to Solas' cause.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 21, 2018 3:12:52 GMT
The dalish. Almost assuredly. It makes ZERO sense that they would want to follow their religions literal Satan, but I fully expect Bioware to have them committed to Solas' cause. Solas is more Loki then Satan. (Probably a clue how he gained power ). And apparently there are Dalish cults that worship their Satan. Hell there are real world cults that worship Satan.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 21, 2018 4:19:50 GMT
Solas is more Loki then Satan. (Probably a clue how he gained power ). And apparently there are Dalish cults that worship their Satan. Hell there are real world cults that worship Satan. I'm sure that will be Bioware's excuse... Doesn't mean its a good one, or one that makes sense.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 21, 2018 5:04:25 GMT
Solas is more Loki then Satan. (Probably a clue how he gained power ). And apparently there are Dalish cults that worship their Satan. Hell there are real world cults that worship Satan. I'm sure that will be Bioware's excuse... Doesn't mean its a good one, or one that makes sense. I don't really see why not. Granted I highly doubt that all the Dalish will just automatically start following him because reasons, but a fair few might see him as the only means to getting the freedom they want...or the vengance. Remember this is someone who has led a somewhat successful rebellion against God-Kings before. As for the topic at hand...I am not actually sure what the exact permeters of the 'idiot ball' are so I hesitate to comment, nor am I sure that such a thing is neccessarily a badplot device given that characters and fictional organizations do tend to have flaws and weaknesses of character which can lead to blind spots. Again Solas as an example, whatever his brilliance, is definitley a character who is being chased by the own ghosts of his character.
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Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 21, 2018 7:46:10 GMT
The obvious answer is every other faction the protagonist doesn't belong to. This. Hell, the Inquisition got the idiot ball during the two years between the original campaign and Trespasser. Also, if there is a large conflict like Tevinter vs Qunari, both will get the idiot ball just as the mages and templars did before. The idiocy needs to be balanced because otherwise one side would win too easily.
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Post by jjdxb on Mar 21, 2018 8:07:27 GMT
Not Solas. Nothing he's doing is idiotic. It's malicious, but not idiotic. He knows exactly what he's doing and what the consequences are.
So I think it will be the Qun. They've been too competent so far, so they're due a period of really bad decision making.
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 21, 2018 8:27:44 GMT
Not Solas. Nothing he's doing is idiotic. I hate the gods so I'm going to create the veil, sever the worlds connection to the fade, and destroy all of civilization and countless lives. *sleep for a thousand years* I hate that the connection to the veil is severed, so I'm going to destroy the veil (Initial plan: by giving my super powerful orb to a Tevinter Magester Darkspawn), and destroy all civilization and countless lives. (Note: This will result in the gods being freed.) Yeah, were clearly dealing with an intellect not seen since Mass Effect 3's catalyst...
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Post by jjdxb on Mar 21, 2018 10:52:33 GMT
Not Solas. Nothing he's doing is idiotic. I hate the gods so I'm going to create the veil, sever the worlds connection to the fade, and destroy all of civilization and countless lives. *sleep for a thousand years* I hate that the connection to the veil is severed, so I'm going to destroy the veil (Initial plan: by giving my super powerful orb to a Tevinter Magester Darkspawn), and destroy all civilization and countless lives. (Note: This will result in the gods being freed.) Yeah, were clearly dealing with an intellect not seen since Mass Effect 3's catalyst... That's not idiocy. He knows what's going to happen when he tears down the veil, he knows it's going to destroy civilizations. Its not idiocy, it's maliciousness because he just doesn't care what non elves think. People who perpetrate mass murder and genocide are not idiots simply because they commit mass murder and genocide.
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Post by blighted on Mar 21, 2018 12:10:50 GMT
The dalish. Almost assuredly. It makes ZERO sense that they would want to follow their religions literal Satan, but I fully expect Bioware to have them committed to Solas' cause. Yeah... I fear they might do this and I really hope they don't. Realistically, some individual Dalish or even clans might follow him, but the vast majority wouldn't (shouldn't) trust him at all. If Bioware insist on making this happen, then there would have to be an element of manipulation/lying in order for the majority of the Dalish to follow, and then I would just hope it's handled better than the wardens under Clarel in Inquisition.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 21, 2018 12:40:50 GMT
Dalish, of course... and mages... as always.
Solas is Loki, the trickster.
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Post by davesin on Mar 21, 2018 13:11:25 GMT
Let's see... basically everyone? I mean, protagonist is going to be the only sane (wo)man until the epilogue. Villain will fuck up only before the final battle (and they will hold literal idiot ball. Good choice, Solas!). Inquisition and Lucerni are the only factions that might have chance to avoid being completely stupid, but it's still 50/50.
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Post by arvaarad on Mar 21, 2018 13:34:33 GMT
I’m immediately suspicious of any definition of “idiotic” that penalizes action much more harshly than inaction. If I can avoid the “idiot” label simply by never disturbing the status quo (even if the status quo is bad), there’s something wrong. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine IRL. When people fail to act, they’re also making a choice, but they often get a free pass to dodge all responsibility for the results. But if they choose to intervene, suddenly they’re saddled with all the consequences... even if the new situation is better overall. A topical example would be self-driving cars. Even if they have a better safety record than human drivers, and switching would save many lives, people will still think they’re wildly unsafe every time they have even 1 accident. As soon as people take action to introduce them, they’ll get blamed for every glitch. But if they had instead chosen to do nothing, they wouldn’t get blamed for the continuing fatalities due to human drivers. That’s not the kind of calculation we want people to make. If someone has the power to improve a situation, and does nothing, they should bear responsibility for the consequences of their inaction. In other words, it should be possible for a passive observer to be idiotic.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2018 16:18:01 GMT
I’m immediately suspicious of any definition of “idiotic” that penalizes action much more harshly than inaction. If I can avoid the “idiot” label simply by never disturbing the status quo (even if the status quo is bad), there’s something wrong. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine IRL. When people fail to act, they’re also making a choice, but they often get a free pass to dodge all responsibility for the results. But if they choose to intervene, suddenly they’re saddled with all the consequences... even if the new situation is better overall. A topical example would be self-driving cars. Even if they have a better safety record than human drivers, and switching would save many lives, people will still think they’re wildly unsafe every time they have even 1 accident. As soon as people take action to introduce them, they’ll get blamed for every glitch. But if they had instead chosen to do nothing, they wouldn’t get blamed for the continuing fatalities due to human drivers. That’s not the kind of calculation we want people to make. If someone has the power to improve a situation, and does nothing, they should bear responsibility for the consequences of their inaction. In other words, it should be possible for a passive observer to be idiotic. Isn't the passive observer the reason why the council held the idiot ball in ME2? ME1 you can argue that the reaper story was outlandish enough they logically wouldn't believe it, ME2 not so much.
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Post by arvaarad on Mar 21, 2018 20:30:20 GMT
I’m immediately suspicious of any definition of “idiotic” that penalizes action much more harshly than inaction. If I can avoid the “idiot” label simply by never disturbing the status quo (even if the status quo is bad), there’s something wrong. This is kind of a pet peeve of mine IRL. When people fail to act, they’re also making a choice, but they often get a free pass to dodge all responsibility for the results. But if they choose to intervene, suddenly they’re saddled with all the consequences... even if the new situation is better overall. A topical example would be self-driving cars. Even if they have a better safety record than human drivers, and switching would save many lives, people will still think they’re wildly unsafe every time they have even 1 accident. As soon as people take action to introduce them, they’ll get blamed for every glitch. But if they had instead chosen to do nothing, they wouldn’t get blamed for the continuing fatalities due to human drivers. That’s not the kind of calculation we want people to make. If someone has the power to improve a situation, and does nothing, they should bear responsibility for the consequences of their inaction. In other words, it should be possible for a passive observer to be idiotic. Isn't the passive observer the reason why the council held the idiot ball in ME2? ME1 you can argue that the reaper story was outlandish enough they logically wouldn't believe it, ME2 not so much. Good point! I guess I was more focused on cases where inaction is pitted against mundane/everyday suffering. If there’s a new and specific threat, people have an easier time counting the cost of inaction. If inaction means “nothing changes, but our current situation is extremely bad to begin with”, that’s where inaction seems to have an unfair advantage over action. People have accepted that suffering as the norm, and any change to the norm will be heavily scrutinized, even if that change is better on the balance. Anyone who tries to change things is criticized for every misstep, even by people who are sympathetic to their cause. Meanwhile, those who do nothing get to sell themselves as cautious and measured, even as people continue to suffer around them.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 21, 2018 20:58:50 GMT
Let's see... basically everyone? I mean, protagonist is going to be the only sane (wo)man until the epilogue. Villain will fuck up only before the final battle (and they will hold literal idiot ball. Good choice, Solas!). Inquisition and Lucerni are the only factions that might have chance to avoid being completely stupid, but it's still 50/50. Remember the Grey Wardens! It will come out, that the Inquisition was totally wrong, and no matter what the Inquisitor choice was. The Inquisitor never mattered, or just made the things even worse.
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Post by arvaarad on Mar 22, 2018 1:37:58 GMT
Remember the Grey Wardens! Tell me about it! DA:O could have basically been a propaganda reel for the Wardens, because of how much it cleaned up their image. They were super shifty and corrupt in The Calling. Then, a month or so later, Origins comes out, and they get to act all saintly and “politically neutral” because the institutional corruption gets killed off early on. At least Origins had the Warden’s Keep DLC, which talked about their coup attempt in Ferelden (aka the reason they got banished in the first place). Then finally in Legacy and DA:I, we had some true callbacks to The Calling, and all the secretive power-tripping that went with it. I see why they needed to have that brief heroic moment in Origins — it wasn’t really the Wardens as an organization, just a couple recruits. And the Blight wasn’t very far along in their bodies, so they weren’t as mentally compromised by the calling. Still, I worry that brief rehabilitation might confuse people. Not us, of course, but perhaps more casual fans.
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psychomegify
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Post by psychomegify on Mar 22, 2018 10:22:42 GMT
Honestly i think everyones gonna be playing catch with the idiot ball. Sharing is caring after all (until it blows up haven)
But really i feel itll be especially prominent in the vint/qun war. Theyre both stubborn asshats too caught up in their own pride.
And im sure Solas will get his hands on it at some point. You know how dogs are with balls, always eager to fetch.
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Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Mar 22, 2018 10:49:56 GMT
Remember the Grey Wardens! Tell me about it! DA:O could have basically been a propaganda reel for the Wardens, because of how much it cleaned up their image. They were super shifty and corrupt in The Calling. Then, a month or so later, Origins comes out, and they get to act all saintly and “politically neutral” because the institutional corruption gets killed off early on. At least Origins had the Warden’s Keep DLC, which talked about their coup attempt in Ferelden (aka the reason they got banished in the first place). Then finally in Legacy and DA:I, we had some true callbacks to The Calling, and all the secretive power-tripping that went with it. I see why they needed to have that brief heroic moment in Origins — it wasn’t really the Wardens as an organization, just a couple recruits. And the Blight wasn’t very far along in their bodies, so they weren’t as mentally compromised by the calling. Still, I worry that brief rehabilitation might confuse people. Not us, of course, but perhaps more casual fans. Hell you could even see the seeds of the brewing conflict between the Orlesian Wardens and Weishauppt in Origins. Granted this is near the end, when you talk to Riordan and ask him about the Wardens. Go back and watch it. It's been years since I played Origins all the way through, this last time really stuck out to me. He talks about how the Grey Wardens basically rule the Anderfels and describes them as 'cold'. One of the canon decisions I keep kicking back and forth in my head is whether to spare Hawke or Loghain to go stir up shit at Weisshaupt. Both are appealing, for different reasons. Loghain, for the sheer IRONY, and Hawke because, well, Hawke. This is also why I like making my own Warden kinda sketchy too. Like this time I finaly sided with Caridin and did away with Branka, BUT, I wiped out the Dalish with the Werewolves because, c'mon, if I can't have Golems Imma get me some frickin' WEREWOLVES for my army. Also, all my Wardens spare Loghain and either exile, kill, or marry off Alistair. TLDR: Grey Wardens are sketchy as SHIT. I like playing that up with my PC's whenever I can As for the idiot ball...probably both Tevinter and the Qun.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 22, 2018 11:27:52 GMT
Tell me about it! DA:O could have basically been a propaganda reel for the Wardens, because of how much it cleaned up their image. They were super shifty and corrupt in The Calling. Then, a month or so later, Origins comes out, and they get to act all saintly and “politically neutral” because the institutional corruption gets killed off early on. At least Origins had the Warden’s Keep DLC, which talked about their coup attempt in Ferelden (aka the reason they got banished in the first place). Then finally in Legacy and DA:I, we had some true callbacks to The Calling, and all the secretive power-tripping that went with it. I see why they needed to have that brief heroic moment in Origins — it wasn’t really the Wardens as an organization, just a couple recruits. And the Blight wasn’t very far along in their bodies, so they weren’t as mentally compromised by the calling. Still, I worry that brief rehabilitation might confuse people. Not us, of course, but perhaps more casual fans. Hell you could even see the seeds of the brewing conflict between the Orlesian Wardens and Weishauppt in Origins. Granted this is near the end, when you talk to Riordan and ask him about the Wardens. Go back and watch it. It's been years since I played Origins all the way through, this last time really stuck out to me. He talks about how the Grey Wardens basically rule the Anderfels and describes them as 'cold'. One of the canon decisions I keep kicking back and forth in my head is whether to spare Hawke or Loghain to go stir up shit at Weisshaupt. Both are appealing, for different reasons. Loghain, for the sheer IRONY, and Hawke because, well, Hawke. This is also why I like making my own Warden kinda sketchy too. Like this time I finaly sided with Caridin and did away with Branka, BUT, I wiped out the Dalish with the Werewolves because, c'mon, if I can't have Golems Imma get me some frickin' WEREWOLVES for my army. Also, all my Wardens spare Loghain and either exile, kill, or marry off Alistair. TLDR: Grey Wardens are sketchy as SHIT. I like playing that up with my PC's whenever I can As for the idiot ball...probably both Tevinter and the Qun.But who cares about Tevinter and the Qun? The Qunari already idiots, and Tevinter corrupt everyone knows it. Idiots? Depends. But no one loves them so much, or insist to their sanity (perhaps, a few, but nothing serious), only some characters, while many people love the (southern) Mages, Dalish and the Grey Wardens... The Grey Wardens were perhaps corrupted and morally questionable, but I they weren't as idiots as painted in DAI. (I didn't read The Calling. What I know, I know only from the games.)
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Post by Jarovbees on Mar 22, 2018 15:39:55 GMT
I'm on Team Everyone, there are going to be multiple instances of the idiot ball being tossed around. That said, I think the elves will get it the worst with what we've seen from Trespasser, and I don't look forward to the huge in-game backlash should they get caught. My Lavellan spent Inquisition trying to improve things for her people and this is what comes of it? Heartbreaking.
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shaqfu
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Post by shaqfu on Mar 22, 2018 22:57:18 GMT
Well I'd say it's probably the dwarfs turn this time. Let's see how horribly they can go about messing up the fancy new discovered areas from the decent dlc
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