You thought Mage vs. Templar was complicated? JUST YOU WAIT FOR...

Interesting this thread has been revived, particularly because we do now have information we didn't back in 2018.


It says they are ignoring the real danger or something like that. If the Magisterium are locking horns (no pun intended) with the Antaam, then both sides are likely to be concentrating on each other rather than some alleged threat from an ancient elf god. Would the snooty Magisters even entertain the idea that an elf could be a threat to them? Well, may be, since I'm pretty sure that the Tevinter Archives probably have some relevant and helpful information within them, particularly those under the domain of the Black Divine. We also know that far from breaking apart after the death of Corypheus, the Venatori have continued to operate within the Imperium itself and are actively using red lyrium, which is what the Qun always feared would happen.

There also seems evidence from Tevinter Nights that the some of the Mortalitasi are involving themselves in the war by assisting Tevinter. Of course, they are quite correct in seeing that the fall of Tevinter would be a threat to them all, so it is in the interests of the southern nations to try and avert it but, technically, they were in breach of the Llomerryn Accord in becoming involved in an action against the Qun, since Tevinter was not a signatory and so were not covered by the agreement. Tevinter and the Qun have never officially not been at war, simply confined their conflict for the most part to Seheron. However, there was a major Qunari assault on eastern Tevinter in 9:12. This was successfully repelled and was such a devastating failure on the part of the Kathaban (High Admiral) of the navy of that time that it led to his replacement. This is why I find it curious that the Antaam were able to make not only a completely surprise attack on Qarinus/Ventus with no real defense of that city but then swept down the eastern coast with little resistance. What has happened to the Archon and the Magisterium that they mounted such a pitiful defense this time round? So I think anything involving the leadership of Tevinter is more likely going to be focused on the corruption in the Magisterium, which will bring us into contact with Dorian, Maevaris and their Lucerni who are trying to combat it. (This is referred to in the epilogue to Trespasser in connection with the conflict). Could it be that the Venatori have been deliberately blocking efforts to mount an effective fight back against the Qunari in order to create a situation where they can then sweep in and save the day with red lyrium, being able to mount a successful coup as a result? Are they going to be seeking the idol for their own nefarious ends?

As for the Qunari, we know that they are aware of the danger from Solas and Rasaan (deputy Ariqun) is actively seeking information about him. Charter also admits that the Ben'Hassrath probably know more about his movements than anyone else and Gatt was in contact with Varric and sending potential recruits to him. Solas' agent was also trying to bring Par Vollen into the war and make any future co-operation between the nations impossible, which suggests that he does regard the Qunari as a threat to his plans. So in terms of stopping Solas, I don't think we need to get Par Vollen on side. It could be that we need to persuade the Antaam not to do something stupid or re-direct their attention away from the war to a bigger threat. It is not clear from Tevinter Nights if they had invaded Antiva or were only planning on doing so. I thought it stupid if they did before they had secured Tevinter because it would be breaking the Llomerryn Accord and would instantly trigger an Exalted March against them, so if this hasn't already happened, it is possible that we are tasked with averting it. One thing we can be confident about and that is that neither the Antaam nor Par Vollen would want the Veil removed and are actively researching ways of strengthening it. Solas' agent also ensured the destruction of their mobile Darvaraad, their magical research facility, which will have set back their efforts somewhat but it does seem that Solas' interest in what the Qunari are doing goes beyond mere hatred of their regime.

Something we were also not aware of in 2018 and that is the increased involvement of the Executors. They remain an unknown quantity. Solas regards them as dangerous and they seem to have prior knowledge of him as well. Their representative also seemed to think that the Qun might be wary of working with them, which suggests that either Rasaan or the Ben'Hassrath might know more. When it comes to choosing factions, this is likely to be the alternative to working with the Qunari rather than Tevinter. Unless, after the events in Tevinter Nights, they have decided not to co-operate further with the Inquisition and so now are just another rival faction either getting in our way or working actively against us.

There is also that new faction who appear to be an alliance of Tevinter individuals against the current rulers but also the Venatori, under the guidance/leadership of the Viper. They may well have a part to play and could be potential allies.

In terms of companions from these factions I think we are likely to see:

Tevinter - Either a Lucerni or a Sicaari (or former Sicaari). It may subsequently turn out they are also an agent of the Viper. I suppose there could be more than one from Tevinter but in opposing camps, so Lucerni vs Viper.

Qun - Rasaan herself or a Tal-Vashoth who was a former priestess of the Ariqun. Alternatively, a Ben'Hassrath like the Huntmaster, although we have encountered a lot of Ben'Hassrath agents, so it would be good if the female Qunari was something else. If Rasaan is still working with the Arishok and the Antaam, then I suppose there is the possibility of one from each faction of the qunari.

Executor - Possibly the Arcane Archer we have seen in concept art and the 2020 trailer. Alternatively, not an obvious Executor like Strife or Irelin, assuming they do have a connection with them as suggested by the art associated with their short story.

Mortalitasi - Probably the glowing skull head individual of the concept art.   Probably wanting to combat corruption in the Mortalitasi.   Likely to freak out any Qunari working with us.

I suspect that our challenge could be more about getting various, often opposing individuals, to work together as a team (a bit like ME2), whilst researching our enemy, his current location and means of stopping him.   If you recall, much of ME1 and ME2 the people in charge were ignoring the threat and it fell to Shepard to deal with it, so DA4 may well be more like that.

DA2 does make me desire a third ending. Something like 'Side with kirkwall' work with the guard to kick em all out. But then i too enjoyed walking away from an exploding building flipping everyone the bird in vtmb.

I think this is highly likely myself that us convincing the Qunari and the Tevinters to work with...well us...will be a stay of execution and a cease fire against the two nations which will probably go back to their usual Cold War or hot war soon after the threat against Solas is resolved and the removal of the threat will just represent a return to at least somewhat of the Status Quo.  As I was talking about in Schmooples...sort of...recently to necrowaif I think that our job in DA 4 is going to have us ally with a *less bad* Tevinter faction and a *less bad* Qunari faction.  Both of whom will probably be working to reform the Qunari and the Imperium from the inside...and we already have candidates for both of these groups...but neither group in and of themselves are likely to be perfect.  

Much like the Mage-Templar situation in Inquisition I think this will result in one of two different styles of ending to this conflict:

1.  We remove the threat of Solas and then the two nations basically go back to fighting with much of the existing power structure still in place though the reformists will still be there making headway.  

Or 2.  The reformists have made significant progress in both nations thanks to our efforts but there will still be the Antaam/ Loyalists/ Venatori which will still be out there waiting to pounce in fture games.  

Since I really do not think BioWare will just entirely close of plot lines, especially at this venture, they will give themselves outs to reinclude these forces later. 

Now I don't think we will be having to chose between either Tevinter faction either.  I don't think that is really going to happen and nor do I think we are going to have to chose between the Qun and the Tevinters per se.  

And I think your own example with the Antaam there at the end answers the question of a Qunari reform movement.  Now you are right to this point we have not seen much of a 'reform' movement manifest yet but we as the audience and we as the people of Thedas still have fairly limited information on the Qun and their internal workings.  To us, more or less, they still appear fairly monolithic.  BUT given the events of Three Trees to Midnight and Tresspasser it is clear that there is cracks starting to emerge in that armor.  We have different factions of Qunari, all claiming to represent the Qun and their best interests, all with differing perspectives, now active within the world of Thedas.  This suggests to me that there could be a reform movement which will crystilize within the Qunari and that we will have to deal with in DA 4.  That one of these factions or the others will consider the Qunari to have 'lost their way'.  And while the situation is not exactly 1 to 1 with what is going on within the Imperium those differences could set up a compare and contrast situation...which assumes that Dragon Age will continue the 'look to the past for answers' theme that has been there since Origins and especially prevelant in Inquisition.  

My plan will be to kill my kill as many qunari as possible.

I probably would have been to if I weren't so worried about this representing an escalation in the Qunari tension.

I've said elsewhere that I'm not sure how politically astute Elthina is having spent her entire life in the Chantry. I do think she was more aware of what was going on outside the Chantry than she liked to admit but she was probably out of her depth when it came to dealing with it. Likely she had been turning a blind eye to what Petrice had been getting up to because she didn't approve of having the blaspheming ox-men in her city but even she realised that it might be provocative to say so openly and the fact is the southern nations had signed a peace treaty with Par Vollen, so the Arishok was essentially a visiting head of state (even if he had long outstayed his welcome). She would not have been pleased that Seamus had openly converted to the Qun and let us not forget that he too was murdered in her Cathedral. I imagine she was secretly please about that whilst openly denouncing it.

May be Elthina was more politically savvy than I give her credit for and she was indirectly using Petrice to do the dirty work she didn't want to associate with first hand or she had actually been behind it all along. If the Divine can have a left hand. why not Elthina? After all, Petrice did receive a promotion between Act 1 and Act 2, so was that simply because of her religious zeal or something more? Petrice seemed surprised that Elthina had turned her back on her (metaphorically as well as literally). Perhaps there was more behind her desperation than we were told; she expected Elthina to save her because she had been doing her will but Elthina realised the time was right to cut ties with her underling in order to maintain her aura of benevolent sanctity. If this was the case, naturally, she would be pleased that the Qunari dealt with the problem before it came to court. Even without the Qunari intervention, I imagine Petrice would have suffered an unfortunate accident so she never had to testify.

Gosh I didn't know this since I never side with her. Wow, then that makes it seem even more like Elthina was using her, tacitly if not openly. Seamus is murdered in the Chantry and no one is brought to justice over it? Not to mention the Qunari envoys who were also slaughtered. Clearly, Elthina only adopts the line she does with a Hawke who opposes Petrice because she is protecting her own position. If that was not the case then Petrice should have been brought to account over Seamus regardless. It also puts into perspective the Arishok taking justice into his own hands in one scenario but not in the other; clearly he wasn't looking to the Grand Cleric to do her duty but felt emboldened to do something himself if he knows he has Hawke on side. No wonder he blew his top eventually though; he was right, the city was just rife with corruption.

I am now tempted to play DA2 again but this time making all the choices I rejected in the past because I couldn't bring myself to make them, just to see the difference it makes.

I would have thought that anyone who is willing to help stop Solas destroying the world is effectively a "good guy". Our Warden and our Inquisitor can be pretty ruthless characters and anti-heroes, particularly the Warden, but our actions are mitigated by the need to save the world/Ferelden from the big bad. By Charter's own admission, the Ben-Hassrath know more about Solas' movements than anyone else, so it makes sense to work with them until the danger is passed. Besides which, they have been attempting to show the Qunari in a more benign light for some time now. First there was Tallis and then the Iron Bull apparently putting a positive spin on some of their more questionable practices, plus Par Vollen disowning the actions of the Viddasala, although if Iron Bull betrays you, that would suggest she wasn't a rogue agent. Still, I would agree that they may throw in the odd platoon on the rampage to give us a bit of variety and emphasise the difference between them and the official Qun on Par Vollen.

I wouldn’t say that. Remember that the message from the Triumvirate was intercepted by Viddasala and crumpled and thrown to the ground, implying it was genuine (if it was just a lie to serve the plan, she would have just let it be delivered). But with Bull out of the loop, he didn’t know that so followed the orders of whom he thought was his superior.