inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 4, 2018 22:22:53 GMT
A very abused phrase: plot holes. No such thing as plot holes in Mass effect. Bad writing? Yes Things that could have been better handled? Oh yes! Naivety? A lot. Unexplained things? Yes, but not unexplainable. Illogical and, no matter, inexplicable thing? No. For example: www.thegamer.com/15-glaring-plot-holes-in-mass-effect/None of these things is truly a plot hole. 15. War Assets Affect The Crucible
just a gameplay mechanic... 14. Cerberus Only Studies The Human-Reaper
rannoch battle was just, like... few weeks before the cerberus base mission. And the quarian/geth were already there, on rannoch. And Tim was indoctrinatad and controled at the time, so... 13. Sovereign Says The Reapers Have No Beginningmaaaan... villains usually overestimate themselves. Movie, comics, books... And technically reapers have no clear beginning (spatial and temporal: the intelligence/consciousness/memory of the harvested race is still there) and, if not killed (a very very rare event) no end. 12. Shepard’s Resurrectioncom'on... 11. The Reapers’ Purpose
The reapers purpose is perfeclty reasonable. You do not have to share it, but if: a. tech advancement is considered a danger (and the more the tech advance, the bigger and more frequent are the risks/problems... look what's happening down here on earth..) b. the creation of the super dangerous synth is THE danger .c the catalyst axioms/studies establish that the organic/synth conflict is inevitable if so, a cyclical reset is a sound (the best?) solution. Micromanaging and monitoring the galaxy for all time can work only as long as the reapers/catalyst retain a huge tech superiority. But if all races and tech are allowed to flourish, in 1000, 10000, 100000 years that superiority will be gone. It's hard to mantain tech supremacy. And than, the conflict. Extinction, maybe. Of course you can disagree with everything above, but it's not a matter of logic, it a matter of axioms. 10. Saren’s Death Disables Sovereignyes, this was somehow dull. But taking control of saren could have been Sovering last attempt to save himself. Maybe sovereing shields were already on 30%... 27%... 20%.... so opening the relay with upgraded cyborg saren was his only hope. Or, simply, it can be a coincidence. Saren died, and few second later the sovereing shields reached 0%. Boom. Lot of possible explanations here. 09. Building The BreederMaybe the breeder was more effective and fitted for the purpose? Having being created extacly for that purpose? Com'on.. 08. Shepard Trusts LegionShepard can sold him to cerberus, or keep it locked in his room, if he doesn't trust him... 07. Anderson And The Illusive Man On The Citadelthe illusive man was there for a while. Shepard and Anderson arrive from the conduit. Not the best writing, everything is a little bit too surreal, but I wouldn't say that "it makes absolutely no sense" 06. The Mass Relays ExplodeEC solved that problem. No explosion, just minor damages 05. Cerberus Acquires The Human-Reaper Even If you Destroy The Collector BaseYeah because reapers components cannot survive an explosion... 04. The Genophage Cure On Virmire Must Be DestroyedThe change of perspective (or not!) on genophagy during the trilogy is a great, great narrative theme. Maybe the best. On Virmire maybe the choiche was wrong and hasty, but in me2 and me3 the players have the opportunity to rethink deeply. And change their mind (or not) 03. The Catalyst Lets You Destroy The ReapersIf you don't understand or accept this point, you cannot understand/accept the ending. The crucible variables have been altered. The crucible existence changed everything. It proves that the reapers WON'T WORK ANYMORE, and that's confirmed by refusal ending. The reapers days are finished. Refusal ending represents exactly the scenario where the crucible is not used, shepard died and the reapers won and continue the harvest.... and guess what, for the next cycle, they "a re no longer a threat". Why? Crucible tech perfected. Liara's beacons everywhere. From the catalyst point of view, the destroy scenario is better than the refusal scenario. That's it. Very simple. Maybe he admires shepard, or mankind, or this cycle. They've succesfully dealt the geths and (almost) defeated the reapers. Who knows. Simply, for him, this known cycle rule the galaxy > next unknown cycle rule the galaxy. Nothing so unreasonable. Still, he doesn't like destroy. Not a bit. He doesnt' believe in it. Control is better. Synthesis, the only valid solution. But he needs shepard to make it happen, so shepard is free to choose.
02. Inconsistent Attitudes Toward Saving The Collector BaseYou know, cerberus wasn't the enemy at the time, and tim wasn't indoctrinated... and hey, people can change their mind in time. Garrus and Mordin are perfect examples. 01.The Galaxy Trusts The Cruciblethey know that it was a prothean mega-ultra-weapon. They studied it, all the best minds of the galaxy together. A huge risk? A bet? Yes. A plot hole? no. IMO the biggest problem with the plot was 00. SanctuaryIn sanctuary, cerberus study how to control the reapers. When the reapers found it out, they attack sanctuary. But TIM was indoctrinated. That means that he was working for the reapers. So WTF is going on? The only possible explanation: TIM indoctrination process reached the point of no return, and became a "true reapers pawn", with no secret for his masters, only just a little before sanctuary mission. Than the reapers purge cerberus from every dangerous element, and acquire every useful information (the prothean IV info) Before sanctuary, TIM was acting against shepard (and so, indirectly, for the reapers) but no WITH the reapers. After sanctuary he's just a puppet. |
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2018 3:06:38 GMT
12. Shepard’s Resurrectioncom'on... This is the only one I really think was a plot hole. There shouldn't have even been anything left of Shepard but ashes, or maybe a smear on the ground. Rebuilding that defies anything I know. Calling Shepard a clone would have been less problematic. Not a plot hole. Just because the Leviathan/Catalyst/Reapers believe a thing is true does not make it true. All that matters is that they acted on what they believe. 10. Saren’s Death Disables SovereignI always took it that Sovereign downloaded its mind into Saren and so when Saren was defeated it temporarily took down its shielding while it returned to its "body". The fleets took advantage of the time when the shields were down and blew that sucker to little tiny pieces. Had they waited another few minutes, the shields would be up again and they'd have lost. My take, anyway. 08. Shepard Trusts LegionI always assume Shepard doesn't trust anyone who hasn't proven themselves. Shepard is always ready to take down any of them. In ME2, Shepard likely only trusted Garrus and Tali and was prepared to kill any of the rest of them if necessary. That said, EDI had to factor in to why Shepard allowed Legion to roam around (not that it did) because EDI was likely able to counter any attempts at hacking the Normandy, or at least would know it was happening. Also, Legion took out enemies of Shepard a couple of times on the Reaper derelict, as well as aiding in sending that thing into the atmosphere of a gas giant to crush it. 03. The Catalyst Lets You Destroy The ReapersWhich is its primary purpose. I still believe Control and Synthesis were add-ons from the Catalyst rather than anything the Protheans or whatever other races contributed had any intention of doing. Hell, Synthesis wasn't even possible until the current cycle so there's no way any other race planned for it. Control was a means of Reaper survival - almost like the reverse of when Saren wanted to live as slaves to the Reapers in order to survive. In this case, the Reapers would live as slaves to Shepard in order to survive. For your sixteenth item, there are a couple of ways around this. TIM was still fighting the indoctrination, so would still follow his plan. Even so, what was actually happening in Sanctuary? People were killed and/or turned into husks. Sounds exactly like doing the work of the Reapers. Second, that facility was run by Henry Lawson. He may not have been indoctrinated, or certainly not to the level of TIM, so he could be directing those forces against the Reapers. That list is mostly lame. As you said, they aren't plot holes. People were just looking for excuses to hate. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 8:43:43 GMT
This is the only one I really think was a plot hole. There shouldn't have even been anything left of Shepard but ashes, or maybe a smear on the ground. Rebuilding that defies anything I know. very unerealistic, perhaps, but inside the armor/helmet something (the brain, mainly) could have survived. shepard could have been even still alive... sort of... look this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_MageeAnd they weren't wearing a super tech n7 armor  I always took it that Sovereign downloaded its mind into Saren and so when Saren was defeated it temporarily took down its shielding while it returned to its "body". The fleets took advantage of the time when the shields were down and blew that sucker to little tiny pieces. Had they waited another few minutes, the shields would be up again and they'd have lost. My take, anyway. yeah, could be. that's exactly the point: as long as there is at least one possible explanation (not necessarly the clearest, or most linear) which does not logically and necessarly conflict with others in-game information/facts, we cannot speak of "plot holes". For your sixteenth item, there are a couple of ways around this. TIM was still fighting the indoctrination, so would still follow his plan. Even so, what was actually happening in Sanctuary? People were killed and/or turned into husks. Sounds exactly like doing the work of the Reapers. Second, that facility was run by Henry Lawson. He may not have been indoctrinated, or certainly not to the level of TIM, so he could be directing those forces against the Reapers. Also, the third video in the cerberus base shows us that TIM decide to insert in his brain the reapers implant because "sanctuary was a success". So most likely that operation (which made TIM a slave) happened quite late in the game. |
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
26,304
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Apr 5, 2018 11:33:04 GMT
14. Cerberus Only Studies The Human-Reaper
rannoch battle was just, like... few weeks before the cerberus base mission. And the quarian/geth were already there, on rannoch. And Tim was indoctrinatad and controled at the time, so... What does Cerberus studying the proto-reaper have to do with Rannoch and geth/quarian? Only if ems is above 2600. The relays still explode if ems is below 2600. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 14:04:51 GMT
14. Cerberus Only Studies The Human-Reaper
rannoch battle was just, like... few weeks before the cerberus base mission. And the quarian/geth were already there, on rannoch. And Tim was indoctrinatad and controled at the time, so... What does Cerberus studying the proto-reaper have to do with Rannoch and geth/quarian? Only if ems is above 2600. The relays still explode if ems is below 2600. 14. the writer said that "T IM acquires the Human-Reaper from the Collector Base to learn more about how the Reapers work. However, the Human-Reaper is simply the core of a Reaper - The Illusive Man would need the whole body of a Reaper to fully understand them. A perfectly intact Reaper corpse can be found on Rannoch, yet Cerberus fails to acquire or even seek the corpse. " not so easy to acquire that corpse, imo. Almost impossibile I would say. btw cerberus was studing the dead reapers in ME2 06. an explosion caused by an asteroid impact can be very different than an explosion caused by an unknown space magic. We do not know how the red/blue wave works, hwat it does, if it drained or redirect or somehow "change" the element zero. Surely it exploits the element zero in some degree. The chemical and pysichal interaction between the space magic red wave -and the element zero is a mistery. No previous info/facts that can prove or disprove that that kind of explosion should have the same effect of the alpha relay explosion. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 14:09:56 GMT
I would not go so far as to say that Mass Effect has no plot holes", but would agree that many of the things people tend to list as their grievances with the game are not, technically plot holes. I'd also clarify that I don't hold to the very stringent (limiting) definition of a plot hole that the OP is using. The Oxford Dictionaries online state the definition as merely "An inconsistency in the narrative or character development of a book, film, television programme, etc," which is more in line with my general thinking on the subject. (Ref: en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plot_hole)Using the "character development" portion of that definition, I'm going to say that within an RPG where there is an intent to allow a varieity of different players help to construct the personality of the primary character through the selection of diametrically opposing dialogue statements (paragon vs. renegade), the development of inconsistencies in the narrative is almost inevitable. Item No. 8 - Shepard Trusts Legion is a case in point here because part of the notion of "how trusting is Shepard generally" is due to what different players input into that character - everything from total paragon only decisions (which often can be seen as being rather naive) to total renegade decisions (which can be seen as Shepard just using everyone and not really trusting anyone. Since there are limitations on just how many different lines of dialogue can be in the game, it is inevitable that, at times, there will not be a line of dialogue that suits the character the player is participating in developing. So, by the definition above, there are very likely to be plot holes that develop in any given individual playthrough of the games. themikefest frequently cites an issue with the fact that Shepard unavoidably walks towards the exploding Crucible trigger while firing his/her weapon, which is something a trained soldier just simply would not likely ever do. There is no real explanation given for that action. Indeed, there no explanation given as to why the destroy trigger must be activated by firing a weapon rather than by simply pressing a button. IMO, this is indeed a plot hole. How big a plot hole it is depends somewhat on what sort of Shepard the player develops... and, of course, dependent entirely on what choice they make at the end of the game. |
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
26,304
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Apr 5, 2018 15:32:50 GMT
06. an explosion caused by an asteroid impact can be very different than an explosion caused by an unknown space magic. We do not know how the red/blue wave works, hwat it does, if it drained or redirect or somehow "change" the element zero. Surely it exploits the element zero in some degree. The chemical and pysichal interaction between the space magic red wave -and the element zero is a mistery. No previous info/facts that can prove or disprove that that kind of explosion should have the same effect of the alpha relay explosion. You said the cut shows no explosion, just minor damage. That is correct if ems is high enough. Its incorrect if ems is low enough for the relays to explode |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 15:57:27 GMT
06. an explosion caused by an asteroid impact can be very different than an explosion caused by an unknown space magic. We do not know how the red/blue wave works, hwat it does, if it drained or redirect or somehow "change" the element zero. Surely it exploits the element zero in some degree. The chemical and pysichal interaction between the space magic red wave -and the element zero is a mistery. No previous info/facts that can prove or disprove that that kind of explosion should have the same effect of the alpha relay explosion. You said the cut shows no explosion, just minor damage. That is correct if ems is high enough. Its incorrect if ems is low enough for the relays to explode true, but even in low ems the element zero is "shot out" the relay. For a brief second we can clearly see the "empy" mass relay. minute 3.18 So the "physical structure" of the mass relay exploded, yes, but there was no element zero going supernova. |
|
Exile Isan
N3
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: ExileIsan
Posts: 623 Likes: 1,858
inherit
3410
0
1,858
Exile Isan
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
623
February 2017
exileisan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ExileIsan
|
Post by Exile Isan on Apr 5, 2018 16:26:42 GMT
If Saren had been rogue and stripped of his Spectre status to begin with it would have cleared up a few problems with the main plot in ME1. Like why Saren couldn't just go to the master control unit to begin with when the council wasn't in session and let Sovereign and the Geth through to attack the Citadel? Nobody would stop him. He's a freaking Spectre. Same with on Eden Prime. It would have made his attack on the colony make more sense if he wasn't a Spectre and couldn't have just said, "I'm a Spectre, the Council sent me to get this Beacon, blah, blah, blah." Which would have made more sense than "I hate humans so I'm going to attack this colony for lulz."
The only major plot hole in Mass Effect 2 (at least to me) is when you are escaping from the Collector Ship:
Joker: EDI get us the hell out of here!
EDI: State a destination Mr. Moreau.
Joker: Anywhere that's not here!
EDI: Engaging mass effect core.
This is a plot hole because EDI has not been unshackled at this time. She has no access to the Normandy's systems in such a way. Which she tells you in your first conversation with her.
I'm not even going to touch ME3 because I'm tired of arguing about it.
|
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2018 16:36:29 GMT
This is the only one I really think was a plot hole. There shouldn't have even been anything left of Shepard but ashes, or maybe a smear on the ground. Rebuilding that defies anything I know. very unerealistic, perhaps, but inside the armor/helmet something (the brain, mainly) could have survived. shepard could have been even still alive... sort of... look this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_MageeAnd they weren't wearing a super tech n7 armor I hear what you're saying, but those people didn't travel through the entire atmosphere of a planet. Meteors are coming through our atmosphere all the time but tend to burn up before hitting the ground. Also, yes, the helmet allegedly kept Shepard's brain intact. Surprising, then, that it was found on Alchera rather than brought along to continue to keep that brain intact. Now, it is what it is, but it doesn't make sense. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 17:03:05 GMT
If Saren had been rogue and stripped of his Spectre status to begin with it would have cleared up a few problems with the main plot in ME1. Like why Saren couldn't just go to the master control unit to begin with when the council wasn't in session and let Sovereign and the Geth through to attack the Citadel? Nobody would stop him. He's a freaking Spectre. Same with on Eden Prime. It would have made his attack on the colony make more sense if he wasn't a Spectre and couldn't have just said, "I'm a Spectre, the Council sent me to get this Beacon, blah, blah, blah." Which would have made more sense than "I hate humans so I'm going to attack this colony for lulz." The only major plot hole in Mass Effect 2 (at least to me) is when you are escaping from the Collector Ship: Joker: EDI get us the hell out of here! EDI: State a destination Mr. Moreau. Joker: Anywhere that's not here! EDI: Engaging mass effect core.This is a plot hole because EDI has not been unshackled at this time. She has no access to the Normandy's systems in such a way. Which she tells you in your first conversation with her. I'm not even going to touch ME3 because I'm tired of arguing about it. Saren need the conduit to bypass Citadel Security Systems and disable them. Probably the most guarded place in the galaxy. He need geth reinforcements to protect him long enough. Saren is just a spectre, not a superhuman being. Or maybe he could have done it by himself, but with much higher risk of failure. Eden prime: I'm a Spectre, the Council sent me to get this Beacon, blah, blah, blah." That was Nihlus task. Nihlus was coming. Nihlus/Anderson wouldn't habe allowed Saren to take/use the beacon. Saren needed to act quickly. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 17:15:11 GMT
If Saren had been rogue and stripped of his Spectre status to begin with it would have cleared up a few problems with the main plot in ME1. Like why Saren couldn't just go to the master control unit to begin with when the council wasn't in session and let Sovereign and the Geth through to attack the Citadel? Nobody would stop him. He's a freaking Spectre. Same with on Eden Prime. It would have made his attack on the colony make more sense if he wasn't a Spectre and couldn't have just said, "I'm a Spectre, the Council sent me to get this Beacon, blah, blah, blah." Which would have made more sense than "I hate humans so I'm going to attack this colony for lulz." The only major plot hole in Mass Effect 2 (at least to me) is when you are escaping from the Collector Ship: Joker: EDI get us the hell out of here! EDI: State a destination Mr. Moreau. Joker: Anywhere that's not here! EDI: Engaging mass effect core.This is a plot hole because EDI has not been unshackled at this time. She has no access to the Normandy's systems in such a way. Which she tells you in your first conversation with her. I'm not even going to touch ME3 because I'm tired of arguing about it. Saren need the conduit to bypass Citadel Security Systems and disable them. Probably the most guarded place in the galaxy. He need geth reinforcements to protect him long enough. Saren is just a spectre, not a superhuman being. Or maybe he could have done it by himself, but with much higher risk of failure. Eden prime: I'm a Spectre, the Council sent me to get this Beacon, blah, blah, blah." That was Nihlus task. Nihlus was coming. Nihlus/Anderson wouldn't habe allowed Saren to take/use the beacon. Saren needed to act quickly. Saren or any number of his Asari commandos had public access to the very spot on the Citadel where the Conduit landed everyone.... that's the plot hole. There is no explanation as to why the Conduit lead to a public place and not inside the secured area Saren was actually trying to access. How did building the Conduit to land in a public plaza on the Citadel benefit the Protheans in getting the keepers to ignore Sovereign's signal in the first place. There is no explanation as to why Saren had to use geth and not Asari to guard his ass or even why Saren himself had to be the one to manipulate the control itself. All they had to do to close that particular problem is move the Conduit to a spot not normally accessible by the public... that alleged area where only the keepers could go. They hinted at that even in the conversation Shepard can have with Avina #2 in front of th Citadel Tower. Why, in the end, they opted not to make use of that is simply beyond me. After all, they designed much of the level around navigating an elevator shaft (a totally new area for the game)... Why not, instead, design that level around infiltrating a new area around being a specialized place the keepers actually did their "secret" work for the Reapers on the Citadel? |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 17:18:34 GMT
This is the only one I really think was a plot hole. There shouldn't have even been anything left of Shepard but ashes, or maybe a smear on the ground. Rebuilding that defies anything I know. very unerealistic, perhaps, but inside the armor/helmet something (the brain, mainly) could have survived. shepard could have been even still alive... sort of... look this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_MageeAnd they weren't wearing a super tech n7 armor I hear what you're saying, but those people didn't travel through the entire atmosphere of a planet. Meteors are coming through our atmosphere all the time but tend to burn up before hitting the ground. Also, yes, the helmet allegedly kept Shepard's brain intact. Surprising, then, that it was found on Alchera rather than brought along to continue to keep that brain intact. Now, it is what it is, but it doesn't make sense. meteors speed is immeasurably higher... and shepard was not far from the surfance when the normandy exploded.  www.extremetech.com/extreme/137867-the-best-photos-and-videos-of-felix-baumgartners-record-breaking-skydivemaybe a little bit higher but the planet profile/curvature is not so different btw, shepard used to have many helmets... could be his first one...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
9520
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 17:28:54 GMT
I'm not even going to touch ME3 because I'm tired of arguing about it. I feel ya. I ranted and raved about ME3 so much back in the 'good old days' that I really have no energy to discuss it. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 17:38:10 GMT
Saren or any number of his Asari commandos had public access to the very spot on the Citadel where the Conduit landed everyone.... that's the plot hole. There is no explanation as to why the Conduit lead to a public place and not inside the secured area Saren was actually trying to access. I've never saw any asari commandos on the presidium. Battalions of armed and equipped asari commandos have access to the presidium? Dont' think so. Only individuals. It's like saying that a top CIA agent can approach the White House, walk into the garden, than in the building itself with 100 fully armed and equipped navy seal behind, go to the control room and start quietly messing around with the security and control system, without being stopped. The risk of failure is high. That's what cerberus did in ME3. If you can pop up with a little army and very close to your objective, it's a lot easier. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 18:00:44 GMT
Saren or any number of his Asari commandos had public access to the very spot on the Citadel where the Conduit landed everyone.... that's the plot hole. There is no explanation as to why the Conduit lead to a public place and not inside the secured area Saren was actually trying to access. I've never saw any asari commandos on the presidium. Battalions of armed and equipped asari commandos have access to the presidium? Dont' think so. Only individuals. It's like saying that a top CIA agent can approach the White House, walk into the garden, than in the building itself with 100 fully armed and equipped navy seal behind, go to the control room and start quietly messing around with the security and control system, without being stopped. The risk of failure is high. That's what cerberus did in ME3. If you can pop up with a little army and very close to your objective, it's a lot easier. Come on now - Asari commandos are still Asari and can dress up to look like any other Asari you do see standing around the Presidium. Saren had multiple ways to get to the Presidium public plaza without using the Conduit. Furthermore, you still do not address the fact that it doesn't specifically take Saren to open up the arms to allow Sovereign to connect to the Tower directly... anyone who could get to that location could do it for him. The officers in Citadel Control weren't special in any way, yet could regularly control that function. The notion that Saren had to fight his way to that specific location personally is inconsistent with the narrative. Also, just because you can dream up an explanation to close it, doesn't mean that a plot hole doesn't exist... A plot hole means that no explanation is given within the narrative of the story or that the incident is inconsistent with the narrative given. A back door doesn't lead to the front door... and that's what, in the end, Bioware did with their conduit. Just for fun, I'm also going to add that the orientation of the Mass Relay Monument is inconsistent with sending people to the Presidium Plaza anyways. At the beginning of the game, we see the Normandy being propelled along the length of a Mass Relay, not being directed sideways through the spinning hoops at its centre. At the end of ME1, we see Sovereign and his fleet exiting the relay. They are received by the arms and slowed again along the length of the relay. When the mako enters the Mass Relay on Ilos, it too is propelled upwards along the length... yet somehow it is spit out straight sideways through the hoops. A better spot for the Conduit to have directed everyone would have been to a secret place underneath the lake (it also would have given purpose to Ashley's innuendoes about them having "built themselves quite the lake..." |
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,275
AnDromedary
4,446
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Apr 5, 2018 18:10:29 GMT
How about this: Mass Effect 1 starts in the year 2183. Mass Effect 2 takes place a little more than 2 years later (I think one of the advertisement on the Citadel gives you an exact number of the time since your death with 2 years and a few months) and it also takes place 2185. Therefore, ME1 must have both started and ended in 2183. On the Normandy, sometime during the middle of the journey Ashley want's to have a toast with Shepard because it is Armistice Day, the aniiversary of the end of the first contact war and she takes that opportunity to talk about her grand dad. After that, you do a couple of missions, which surely take more than a day. Later in the game, when you return to the citadel after doing all the main missions, Terra Firma has a protest to mark Armistice Day as well. How can that holiday happen twice within a game that is supposed to take place within one year? PLOT HOLE!!!  |
|
dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,942 Likes: 17,687
inherit
Biotic Booty
1031
0
Nov 16, 2024 14:01:33 GMT
17,687
dmc1001
9,942
August 2016
dmc1001
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
ferroboy
77
|
Post by dmc1001 on Apr 5, 2018 18:15:18 GMT
How about this: Mass Effect 1 starts in the year 2183. Mass Effect 2 takes place a little more than 2 years later (I think one of the advertisement on the Citadel gives you an exact number of the time since your death with 2 years and a few months) and it also takes place 2185. Therefore, ME1 must have both started and ended in 2183. On the Normandy, sometime during the middle of the journey Ashley want's to have a toast with Shepard because it is Armistice Day, the aniiversary of the end of the first contact war and she takes that opportunity to talk about her grand dad. After that, you do a couple of missions, which surely take more than a day. Later in the game, when you return to the citadel after doing all the main missions, Terra Firma has a protest to mark Armistice Day as well. How can that holiday happen twice within a game that is supposed to take place within one year? PLOT HOLE!!!  The Citadel has a different day/night cycle than Earth. The Normandy was using an Earth cycle while the Citadel still have to "catch up" to galactic standard time. Also, I could imagine the Terra Firma party being full of idiots. (Yes, I know this was a joke.) |
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,275
AnDromedary
4,446
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Apr 5, 2018 19:00:54 GMT
The Citadel has a different day/night cycle than Earth. The Normandy was using an Earth cycle while the Citadel still have to "catch up" to galactic standard time. Also, I could imagine the Terra Firma party being full of idiots. (Yes, I know this was a joke.) Good point. Apparently one Citadel year is about 1.09 earth years: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Tevos#Galactic_Standard_TimeBut if everyone celebrates holydays depending on their own concept of time, this would be the single most confusing universe ever. I think I'll go with the "Terra Firma is full of idiots" explanation. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 19:02:09 GMT
Come on now - Asari commandos are still Asari and can dress up to look like any other Asari you do see standing around the Presidium. Saren had multiple ways to get to the Presidium public plaza without using the Conduit. Furthermore, you still do not address the fact that it doesn't specifically take Saren to open up the arms to allow Sovereign to connect to the Tower directly... anyone who could get to that location could do it for him. The officers in Citadel Control weren't special in any way, yet could regularly control that function. The notion that Saren had to fight his way to that specific location personally is inconsistent with the narrative. Also, just because you can dream up an explanation to close it, doesn't mean that a plot hole doesn't exist... A plot hole means that no explanation is given within the narrative of the story or that the incident is inconsistent with the narrative given. let's say you manage to infiltrate an asari commando squad in the presidium, with weapon/equipment etc without rising any suspicions. I suppose that the highest level of presidium - especially the embassy/tower district- is a semi-restricted area (you must have a sort of permission/authorization for being there). And I suppose that there are preventive measures against gatherings of mercenaries, assassins and commandos near the councilors and ambassadors. Like in our world. But let's say you manage to infiltrate the asari commandos. You need to go in the control room, kill everyone, and open up the arms. Ok, feasible. But after that, the element of surprise is gone, and you're hunted by everyone. And you still have to go as quickly as possible on the top of the tower and transfer control of the station to sovereing. And that's impossible with only few asari on your back. You need a small army to do it, and do it quickly. And the best (and only) way to surprisingly infiltrate a small army in the heart of the citadel is the conduit. |
|
inherit
1853
0
Nov 26, 2024 13:28:49 GMT
495
kalreegar
416
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Apr 5, 2018 19:12:29 GMT
How about this: Mass Effect 1 starts in the year 2183. Mass Effect 2 takes place a little more than 2 years later (I think one of the advertisement on the Citadel gives you an exact number of the time since your death with 2 years and a few months) and it also takes place 2185. Therefore, ME1 must have both started and ended in 2183. On the Normandy, sometime during the middle of the journey Ashley want's to have a toast with Shepard because it is Armistice Day, the aniiversary of the end of the first contact war and she takes that opportunity to talk about her grand dad. After that, you do a couple of missions, which surely take more than a day. Later in the game, when you return to the citadel after doing all the main missions, Terra Firma has a protest to mark Armistice Day as well. How can that holiday happen twice within a game that is supposed to take place within one year? PLOT HOLE!!!  saracino says "with armistice day coming soon" he also says "as we have every year, for the last 26 years" The first contact war was in 2157. So the First armistice day was the the following year: 2158. 2158-2183 (included): 26 armistice days. So ashley was celebrating 2183 armistice day, and saracino is "making his protest" for 2184 armistice day |
|
inherit
2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,275
AnDromedary
4,446
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
|
Post by AnDromedary on Apr 5, 2018 19:17:25 GMT
saracino says "with armistice day coming soon" he also says "as we have every year, for the last 26 years" The first contact war was in 2157. So the First armistice day was the the following year: 2158. 2158-2183 (included): 26 armistice days. So ashley was celebrating 2183 armistice day, and saracino is "making his protest" for 2184 armistice day Sill going with "Terra Firma are all idiots". Agree with your assessment of the conduit issue btw. I've posted on this a couple of times in the past. The only thing I do find strange in ME1 is that Shepard and company are allowed into the council chambers in full gear. It would have been more believable (not just for the Saren thing but in general) if they had worn fatigues and no weapons on the presidium at least. But that was probably a technical limitation within the game. |
|
stephenw32768
N3
Quarian Ally
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy
PSN: stephenw32768
Prime Posts: 433
Prime Likes: 679
Posts: 646 Likes: 3,000
inherit
350
0
Aug 31, 2016 18:47:06 GMT
3,000
stephenw32768
Quarian Ally
646
August 2016
stephenw32768
Mass Effect Trilogy
stephenw32768
433
679
|
Post by stephenw32768 on Apr 5, 2018 19:23:26 GMT
The only major plot hole in Mass Effect 2 (at least to me) is when you are escaping from the Collector Ship: Joker: EDI get us the hell out of here! EDI: State a destination Mr. Moreau. Joker: Anywhere that's not here! EDI: Engaging mass effect core.This is a plot hole because EDI has not been unshackled at this time. She has no access to the Normandy's systems in such a way. Which she tells you in your first conversation with her. Could that be explained away if one were to say that EDI was granted access to the propulsion systems because she was acting on a direct order from the pilot? She didn't make the decision to fire up the engines on her own; she responded to Joker's voice command. |
|
inherit
♨ Retired
24
0
Nov 26, 2024 12:38:10 GMT
26,304
themikefest
15,635
August 2016
themikefest
21,655
15,426
|
Post by themikefest on Apr 5, 2018 19:26:05 GMT
true, but even in low ems the element zero is "shot out" the relay. For a brief second we can clearly see the "empy" mass relay. So the "physical structure" of the mass relay exploded, yes, but there was no element zero going supernova. Ok, but your post is still incorrect since the relay's do explode, after release of the cut, if ems is low enough |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10036
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 19:32:05 GMT
Come on now - Asari commandos are still Asari and can dress up to look like any other Asari you do see standing around the Presidium. Saren had multiple ways to get to the Presidium public plaza without using the Conduit. Furthermore, you still do not address the fact that it doesn't specifically take Saren to open up the arms to allow Sovereign to connect to the Tower directly... anyone who could get to that location could do it for him. The officers in Citadel Control weren't special in any way, yet could regularly control that function. The notion that Saren had to fight his way to that specific location personally is inconsistent with the narrative. Also, just because you can dream up an explanation to close it, doesn't mean that a plot hole doesn't exist... A plot hole means that no explanation is given within the narrative of the story or that the incident is inconsistent with the narrative given. let's say you manage to infiltrate an asari commando squad in the presidium, with weapon/equipment etc without rising any suspicions. I suppose that the highest level of presidium - especially the embassy/tower district- is a semi-restricted area (you must have a sort of permission/authorization for being there). And I suppose that there are preventive measures against gatherings of mercenaries, assassins and commandos near the councilors and ambassadors. Like in our world. But let's say you manage to infiltrate the asari commandos. You need to go in the control room, kill everyone, and open up the arms. Ok, feasible. But after that, the element of surprise is gone, and you're hunted by everyone. And you still have to go as quickly as possible on the top of the tower and transfer control of the station to sovereing. And that's impossible with only few asari on your back. You need a small army to do it, and do it quickly. And the best (and only) way to surprisingly infiltrate a small army in the heart of the citadel is the conduit. Anderson, all by himself, manages to infiltrate Citadel Control and unlock the Normandy. He is caught, but not killed. The narrative you're constructing is inconsistent with yet another narrative presented in the game. Let's dig even deeper. Sovereign is a machine and we're clearly told that "he thinks like a machine." What he knows is that he sent a signal to the keepers on the Citadel to initiate the harvest and that signal was ignored (i.e. it did not activate the relay). We are told only that Saren believes the Conduit is what will facilitate the return of the Reapers. There is never any explanation given as to WHY Saren believes that or, even more importantly, WHY Sovereign would believe that given that Sovereign shouldn't even know about the Conduit in that it was the Protheans who built it and used it to secretly undermine the next harvest. Serious plot hole that. Sovereign, logically, should be investigating the keepers on the Citadel first and foremost rather than seeking out a minion to solicit geth to start a premature war with colonists in the Terminus Systems (which aren't even under Citadel jurisdiction) while chasing down a device he shouldn't logically even know about. What led him to believe he needed to look into Prothean beacons in the first place? |
|
