Sumerian Physics
N2
3/26/17: Pathfound something
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sumerian Physics on Jun 5, 2018 14:18:48 GMT
Dragon Age > Angry Birds
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 5, 2018 18:47:23 GMT
I have no objection to single-character RPGs (BioWare has never really made one). I do have an objection to action combat, however, as that undermines the character's reality. If the character's stats say he has some skill level at something, he shouldn't be better or worse at it based on MY skill at it. I don't exist within the game world. It makes no sense at all for my abilities to be relevant. Of course, some of your abilities have to be relevant. You still supply the tactical and strategic decision-making. (For everyone in the party in a party-based game.)
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jun 6, 2018 2:44:55 GMT
I have no objection to single-character RPGs (BioWare has never really made one). I do have an objection to action combat, however, as that undermines the character's reality. If the character's stats say he has some skill level at something, he shouldn't be better or worse at it based on MY skill at it. I don't exist within the game world. It makes no sense at all for my abilities to be relevant. Of course, some of your abilities have to be relevant. You still supply the tactical and strategic decision-making. (For everyone in the party in a party-based game.) Only to the degree that you don't have the intelligence to emulate a smarter character. Otherwise you can intentionally make poor or odd tactical choices as they fit the character.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 9:44:42 GMT
Hope it's not like DA:2's combat style. That's all I ask, because it felt so unnatural feeling like I was in a MMO when playing a single player. No thanks. I was okay about DA:I's system, but even that could've used more work honestly. I actually liked DA:O's style the most though, despite it's slowness, mages were bloody OP monsters in the game and I would like to feel that way again.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 11, 2018 11:56:53 GMT
This is a ideal combat design that BioWare should learn from.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jun 13, 2018 22:28:08 GMT
Of course, some of your abilities have to be relevant. You still supply the tactical and strategic decision-making. (For everyone in the party in a party-based game.) Only if you decide to make it so. I would expect roleplayers to remain in-character when choosing tactics. If my character dies as a result of an in-character decision, that's a successful playthrough completed.
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 14, 2018 21:26:29 GMT
As ahglock said, it isn't symmetrical. We can play stupider than we are, but not smarter. My understanding of the combat system is a hard cap on the competence of my characters.
Hey, do you remember the complaints about the Pausanias/Tony K. AI package for NWN? Every week or so someone would show up and be absolutely incensed that his henchman wasn't dual-wielding against certain targets. Turns out the AI was smarter than those players and would revert to single-wielding against any target with high enough AC to make dual -wielding counterproductive.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jun 16, 2018 19:52:40 GMT
They need to stop trying to make DA an Action RPG, the isometric view was fine,- also stop dumbing the companion AI.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 17, 2018 7:57:43 GMT
They need to stop trying to make DA an Action RPG, the isometric view was fine,- also stop dumbing the companion AI. God of War have done well with a companion system with his son, so why not have an Action RPG? And besides people have been complaining about the combat system in Inquisition behaves like an MMO than actual action oriented gameplay.
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Post by wavebend on Jun 18, 2018 23:51:34 GMT
They need to stop trying to make DA an Action RPG, the isometric view was fine,- also stop dumbing the companion AI. That's the simplest answer, either make an isometric or make a full action rpg, and if you make both (can play as both and switch in real time) you need some god tier AI / tactical menu
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 20, 2018 22:23:26 GMT
I'd go ahead and drop iso. I never use it in any of the games anymore.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 24, 2018 6:06:26 GMT
I think whoever the choreographer of The Hobbit is I think BioWare should hire them to improve animations and introduce fighting styles as far as combat is concerned.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 25, 2018 2:24:04 GMT
So long as DA4 does not use DAI's combat design then I will be happy. (I lost count the number of times my finger went dumb holding down the right trigger to do basic attacks in DAI).
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 9, 2018 10:52:07 GMT
So long as DA4 does not use DAI's combat design then I will be happy. (I lost count the number of times my finger went dumb holding down the right trigger to do basic attacks in DAI). That's why they should go with action combat.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jul 15, 2018 17:40:32 GMT
I'd go ahead and drop iso. I never use it in any of the games anymore. I used the tactical camera for literally every combat event in DAI, and I think it worked well. Just as I paused to aim every shot in the ME trilogy (losing that feature rendered MEA unplayable for me, which is unfortunate, since otherwise I suspect it would have been my favourite ME game).
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jul 15, 2018 17:41:54 GMT
So long as DA4 does not use DAI's combat design then I will be happy. (I lost count the number of times my finger went dumb holding down the right trigger to do basic attacks in DAI). That's why they should go with action combat. How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time?
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Post by BearKingReborn on Jul 15, 2018 21:04:05 GMT
That's why they should go with action combat. How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? I definitely don't want this for Dragon Age but to answer the question; Batman Arkham Knight had "Dual play" where the player controlled both Batman and an ally, either Robin, Catwoman or Nightwing in an encounter with multiple opponents. It was quite well done from my point of view. But a big "hell no" to that kind of action in a 4 person party. That would be a nightmare.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 15, 2018 21:25:12 GMT
Dragon Age actually has some of the best combat in an RPG, in my opinion. DA2 on PC was probably the best as it's more dynamic than Origins, but you still have auto attack. I certainly don't think we need to be more "action game" style than Inquisition was - I prefer it more "strategy game" style.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 15, 2018 22:00:40 GMT
Dragon Age actually has some of the best combat in an RPG, in my opinion. DA2 on PC was probably the best as it's more dynamic than Origins, but you still have auto attack. I certainly don't think we need to be more "action game" style than Inquisition was - I prefer it more "strategy game" style. I think expanding on both might be possible. Inquisition's tactics and tac cam could use some work.
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 16, 2018 8:51:16 GMT
That's why they should go with action combat. How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? What's switching characters has got to do with combat design, anyways? It doesn't affect DA2 and the combat slightly improved so I don't think characters has got to do with it, really.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 16, 2018 15:40:41 GMT
That's why they should go with action combat. How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? Maybe we shouldn't.
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Post by BearKingReborn on Jul 16, 2018 21:27:13 GMT
How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? Maybe we shouldn't. So just give basic orders "go here", "cover this", like in MEA? Or just leave them to it entirely?
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Sylvius the Mad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jul 16, 2018 23:09:19 GMT
How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? What's switching characters has got to do with combat design, anyways? It doesn't affect DA2 and the combat slightly improved so I don't think characters has got to do with it, really. How do I control multiple characters simultaneously? If I want multiple characters to do multiple specific things at the same time, how do those controls work?
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Sylvius the Mad
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Jul 16, 2018 23:12:09 GMT
How are we supposed to play multiple characters in real-time? Maybe we shouldn't. That design doesn't make any sense in-universe unless we have an extremely robust behaviour programming system (DA2's would be the bare minimum). Either we can make decisions for them or we can't. If we can't, fine, then it's a single character game (like Skyrim), and we shouldn't be able to chose their skills or equipment, but if we can then there needs to be a way to prevent them from making decisions themselves.
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Post by cloud9 on Jul 19, 2018 10:30:21 GMT
What's switching characters has got to do with combat design, anyways? It doesn't affect DA2 and the combat slightly improved so I don't think characters has got to do with it, really. How do I control multiple characters simultaneously? If I want multiple characters to do multiple specific things at the same time, how do those controls work? I honestly don't know where are you going with this. What's characters got to do with combat gameplay? How does it affect combat in general?
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