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Post by themikefest on Apr 22, 2018 4:38:31 GMT
True that the whole asari species can't be blamed for the artifact not being revealed earlier, but will the general public see it that way since they know that its possible that lives that were lost could have been avoided? The other thing is the asari refused to show up to the summit. That won't help them either.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2018 4:52:10 GMT
True that the whole asari species can't be blamed for the artifact not being revealed earlier, but will the general public see it that way since they know that its possible that lives that were lost could have been avoided? The other thing is the asari refused to show up to the summit. That won't help them either. Looking at history, the public wouldn’t really care that they showed up and joined the fight late as long as they showed up at all. Plus really they wee one of the earlier races to join the fight, beaten only by races being attacked by the Reapers and the krogan. Of the Council races other than humanity the asari give the most to the fight according to war assets.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 22, 2018 5:04:35 GMT
Looking at history, the public wouldn’t really care that they showed up and joined the fight late as long as they showed up at all. Plus really they wee one of the earlier races to join the fight, beaten only by races being attacked by the Reapers and the krogan. Of the Council races other than humanity the asari give the most to the fight according to war assets. They will care that the asari species failed to reveal an artifact that could have ended the war earlier that might have saved x number of lives. With them refusing to not show up at the summit, it might have the public believe that the species purposely chose not to reveal the artifact earlier.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2018 5:11:09 GMT
Looking at history, the public wouldn’t really care that they showed up and joined the fight late as long as they showed up at all. Plus really they wee one of the earlier races to join the fight, beaten only by races being attacked by the Reapers and the krogan. Of the Council races other than humanity the asari give the most to the fight according to war assets. They will care that the asari species failed to reveal an artifact that could have ended the war earlier that might have saved x number of lives. With them refusing to not show up at the summit, it might have the public believe that the species purposely chose not to reveal the artifact earlier. A few people perhaps, but the vast majority won’t care. Just like how the vast majority of Europeans didn’t care that America entered either of the World Wars years after they started thus could have saved potentially millions of lives in each but instead just happy they entered the war at all. Plus that is assuming such things are made public knowledge and not classified.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2018 5:13:09 GMT
"We" being the survivors. Also, I didn't say there would be no authoritative figures but they'd have to be composed of beings who looked at the greater good rather than only looking our for their own asses. There's repeated evidence that the Council is useless, will put their heads in the sand, and unwilling to help when needed. That was in every game of the OT. So, given that some type of central authority would exist (in whatever form it comes), the asari have some sort of punitive action taken against them. I have to tell you, I'm not the forgiving type when it comes to the potential death of trillions. It's why Destroy is also my only option. What's the strategy for getting from where things left off to where you'd like them to go? The Council being useless doesn't automatically create a constituency for an even more powerful central authority, any more than the U.N. being useless right now automatically creates a constituency for a powerful world government. If anything, it goes the other way. Although that's maybe moot, since there's no evidence that the Council came out of the Reaper War looking bad. I get that you're hoping to see the asari get punished, but hope is not a plan.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 22, 2018 5:21:24 GMT
A few people perhaps, but the vast majority won’t care. Just like how the vast majority of Europeans didn’t care that America entered either of the World Wars years after they started thus could have saved potentially millions of lives in each but instead just happy they entered the war at all. Plus that is assuming such things are made public knowledge and not classified. Since my Shepard doesn't care about the species, she will reveal that information to reporters.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2018 5:40:21 GMT
A few people perhaps, but the vast majority won’t care. Just like how the vast majority of Europeans didn’t care that America entered either of the World Wars years after they started thus could have saved potentially millions of lives in each but instead just happy they entered the war at all. Plus that is assuming such things are made public knowledge and not classified. Since my Shepard doesn't care about the species, she will reveal that information to reporters. Its not up to Shepard. Even SPECTREs have superiors and have to follow their orders. Plus considering we see the asari and others living with each other fine in the EC, Bioware decided Shepard wouldn’t reveal it or the galaxy doesn’t care.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2018 5:42:51 GMT
I'd bet "doesn't care" there. Anyway, there's no mechanism to hurt the asari even if the galaxy did care.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 22, 2018 6:14:06 GMT
Of course we are in a post-MEA world. I let the whole anti-Andromeda stance go the moment they announced the setting. It was a matter of either falling into line or ruining the IP by being ready to hate it. This is one good way to handle it. I'd honestly rather see the Andromeda story given a proper conclusion and then jump back into the MW in the neighborhood of 2200 CE. This is entirely a personal preference, and maybe it's not as easy as jumping the timeline forward 700 years. It would preserve what is, for me, the charm of the series: the near future setting. The further we go from home, the more charm is lost, regardless of actual, quantifiable differences. (Like I said, it's a very personal preference.) MW civilization changes at a glacial pace. 3000 CE need not look much different, I guess. Still, I'd like to think the Reaper War would kick start some initiative and ingenuity. Then, those damn divergent endings come into it. Synthesis? With access to hundreds of millions of years of Reaper knowledge, we'd better have grown dramatically in 700 years. Even if the changes are window-dressing, like lengthened lifespans and other mechanically unimpactful details, that stuff is crucial setting info. I feel like they simply have to choose a canon ending. Otherwise, we're looking at prequels or a reboot. I don't care which they choose. (I think Destroy would be the cleanest in terms of future impact upon the setting, fewer hurdles, etc...) I suspect that any future game might disappoint me. I doubt they'll properly resolve MEA, since it doesn't seem like the majority would pay for such a game. I doubt they'll revisit the MW in a way that makes me happy. (Reboot seems likely. Images of a FPS/MMO rewrapping plagues my thoughts.) These four games might be the totality for me. Four games and a decade of fun isn't a bad legacy. Well, I disagree that destroy has the least hurdles. The ending with the least amount of change to the galaxy is control. The only thing that changes is that Shepard rather than the Catalyst controls the Reapers. In control, the Reapers still exist... only their behavior changes such that they don't proceed with harvesting the other species in the galaxy. Although in control, Shepard has no direct contact with anyone and anyone else has no direct contact with Shepard and, quite probably, don't even know that Shepard now controls the Reapers. With destroy, the Reapers no longer exist and neither do any other synthetic lifeforms in the galaxy. Destroy poses a greater and more problematic change. It's easy enough that write around the "dead Geth" issue, in ME's tradition of retcons and ridiculous stuff. Having Creepy Shepard Overlord and the Reapers lurking in the background would cast a shadow over any future games. Whatever they do, I think the Reapers need to be/remain definitively gone, including narratively.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 22, 2018 6:21:17 GMT
Its not up to Shepard. Even SPECTREs have superiors and have to follow their orders. Plus considering we see the asari and others living with each other fine in the EC, Bioware decided Shepard wouldn’t reveal it or the galaxy doesn’t care. That wouldn't stop Shepard from telling the reporters what happened. I know Bioware wouldn't do anything to hurt their favorite species, so it doesn't matter what I say, right? Either way, I would punish them for what they failed to do. Asari and others living with each other? I never saw that in the cut when I destroyed the reapers.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2018 6:39:28 GMT
Having Creepy Shepard Overlord and the Reapers lurking in the background would cast a shadow over any future games. You say that like it would be a bad thing.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 6:47:24 GMT
Well, I disagree that destroy has the least hurdles. The ending with the least amount of change to the galaxy is control. The only thing that changes is that Shepard rather than the Catalyst controls the Reapers. In control, the Reapers still exist... only their behavior changes such that they don't proceed with harvesting the other species in the galaxy. Although in control, Shepard has no direct contact with anyone and anyone else has no direct contact with Shepard and, quite probably, don't even know that Shepard now controls the Reapers. With destroy, the Reapers no longer exist and neither do any other synthetic lifeforms in the galaxy. Destroy poses a greater and more problematic change. It's easy enough that write around the "dead Geth" issue, in ME's tradition of retcons and ridiculous stuff. Having Creepy Shepard Overlord and the Reapers lurking in the background would cast a shadow over any future games. Whatever they do, I think the Reapers need to be/remain definitively gone, including narratively. No one in the ME Universe would know it's Shepard lurking in the background. We played most of 3 games not knowing the Reapers were being controlled by anyone and for everyone left in the Milky Way, nothing would change except the behavior of the Reapers. They would still return to dark space, just without having harvested everyone. To the people in the galaxy, they would just never know the reason they stopped the harvest. Of the endings, control is factually the one that involves the least superficial changes. You're just speaking your bias and assuming that people share that bias. Some do indeed and they've been very vocal about it and shown that they are quite prepared to say F-You to anyone who doesn't choose the destroy ending... to anyone who chose to save the geth and EDI (because that's exactly why a number people did not choose the destroy ending in the first place). That's the problem. That's been the problem for more than 5 years now. My preference is to go back to a post-apocalyptic Milky Way so that all of ME3's endings can remain valid and ME:A remains valid. We still get to explore the rest of the Milky Way and we'll still get to reminisce over what was there before the Crucible was fired. We can still get a brief acknowledgment of our chosen ending. TBH, I don't think you'd be giving up much at all really.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 22, 2018 6:52:46 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if people walk outside looking over their shoulder wondering if/when the giant looking robots will fire their red beam of doom.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 22, 2018 6:56:41 GMT
It's easy enough that write around the "dead Geth" issue, in ME's tradition of retcons and ridiculous stuff. Having Creepy Shepard Overlord and the Reapers lurking in the background would cast a shadow over any future games. Whatever they do, I think the Reapers need to be/remain definitively gone, including narratively. No one in the ME Universe would know it's Shepard lurking in the background. We played most of 3 games not knowing the Reapers were being controlled by anyone and for everyone left in the Milky Way, nothing would change except the behavior of the Reapers; and to them, that change would simply not be explained. Of the endings, it's actually the one that involves the least superficial changes. You're just speaking your bias and assuming that people share that bias. Some do indeed and they've been very vocal about it and shown that they are quite prepared to say F-You to anyone who doesn't choose the destroy ending, to anyone who chose to save the geth and EDI (because that's exactly why a number people did not choose the destroy ending in the first place). That's the problem. That's been the problem for more than 5 years now. Like I said, I'd roll with whichever ending they chose. I just think Destroy is the cleanest. "We defeated the Reapers. They're gone. The end." That's definitive and clean. There's no in-setting question of if and when they'll ever again become a threat. That's why I say it's cleaner; not due to some bias. I have no emotional attachment to any particular ending. I don't have one Shepard I place above the others as "canon". They're all simply possibilities.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 7:08:50 GMT
No one in the ME Universe would know it's Shepard lurking in the background. We played most of 3 games not knowing the Reapers were being controlled by anyone and for everyone left in the Milky Way, nothing would change except the behavior of the Reapers; and to them, that change would simply not be explained. Of the endings, it's actually the one that involves the least superficial changes. You're just speaking your bias and assuming that people share that bias. Some do indeed and they've been very vocal about it and shown that they are quite prepared to say F-You to anyone who doesn't choose the destroy ending, to anyone who chose to save the geth and EDI (because that's exactly why a number people did not choose the destroy ending in the first place). That's the problem. That's been the problem for more than 5 years now. Like I said, I'd roll with whichever ending they chose. I just think Destroy is the cleanest. "We defeated the Reapers. They're gone. The end." That's definitive and clean. There's no in-setting question of if and when they'll ever again become a threat. That's why I say it's cleaner; not due to some bias. I have no emotional attachment to any particular ending. I don't have one Shepard I place above the others as "canon". They're all simply possibilities. Again, I disagree. Control is factually the cleanest... involving the least change. Reapers still exist under the control of something/someone. They just go back to dark space (after helping to repair the damage) without completing that harvest. I'm not saying which ending I like the best... I'm saying it's a matter of fact that it is control that changes things the least. The state of the galaxy remains essentially the same as it was at the start of ME1. With destroy and synthesis there are more changes. I accept you like destroy's changes the best. Not everyone agrees with you on that... so a canon ending arbitrarily tells the other side F-You. I don't think that's necessary and I would prefer they didn't do that. ETA: There are other issues with putting the timeline close to the end of ME3 that persist despite what ending choice Bioware might declare canon. Some players wiped out the Quarians, others wiped out the geth instead; others secured a peace. So, does your envisioned galaxy contain quarians? To say yes, tells everyone who sided with the geth F-You. Genophage cured or not cured? Which side of that issues gets told F-You? What about the rachni? Did they wind up becoming allies or enemies or was the queen/breeder wiped out? You're not just asking them to declare one ending canon, you're asking them to lock in one of side of every single possible major decision the players could have possibly made in that final game. For what? The privelege of exploring the same galaxy you could still explore without declaring any choice canon, it would just be 600 or so years later.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2018 7:12:32 GMT
For most values of Sheplyst, agreed.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2018 10:57:58 GMT
I'm not talking about the beacon. I'm talking about the Ardat-Yakshi. So because they kept a “mental” facility as it were for an incurable disease you make it their fault the Reapers converted them? Or the fact that they are an obscure part of Asari culture most don’t know about? Sorry that’s very petty. Did you miss Morinth? Was she in a "mental" facility? Samara cited HER ALONE as having an astronomical body count. Any reason to think their aren't more out there? Call it petty, but that's where I am. You aren't required to agree.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2018 11:00:17 GMT
"We" being the survivors. Also, I didn't say there would be no authoritative figures but they'd have to be composed of beings who looked at the greater good rather than only looking our for their own asses. There's repeated evidence that the Council is useless, will put their heads in the sand, and unwilling to help when needed. That was in every game of the OT. So, given that some type of central authority would exist (in whatever form it comes), the asari have some sort of punitive action taken against them. I have to tell you, I'm not the forgiving type when it comes to the potential death of trillions. It's why Destroy is also my only option. What's the strategy for getting from where things left off to where you'd like them to go? The Council being useless doesn't automatically create a constituency for an even more powerful central authority, any more than the U.N. being useless right now automatically creates a constituency for a powerful world government. If anything, it goes the other way. Although that's maybe moot, since there's no evidence that the Council came out of the Reaper War looking bad. I get that you're hoping to see the asari get punished, but hope is not a plan. True enough. I suppose a council (or a replacement) would have to be in place, but some kind of punitive action would have to take place. They ignored the threat and only revealed that they might have an answer when Thessia itself was attacked. Tevos said something along the lines that while Earth was being attacked the rest of them could shore up their own borders. That is not a race that gives two fucks about anyone else.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2018 11:02:56 GMT
Having Creepy Shepard Overlord and the Reapers lurking in the background would cast a shadow over any future games. You say that like it would be a bad thing. It's a bad thing. Who knows what Not-Quite-Shepard might get up to? Imagine a Renegade Shepard running the Reapers? I can see that Shepard doing the sorts of things TIM might do. Human dominance indeed.
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 22, 2018 11:06:44 GMT
I'm not talking about the beacon. I'm talking about the Ardat-Yakshi. The salarian government has a much larger body count on their hands than the asari do with the Ardat-Yakshi. At least they try to contain them and thus try to eliminate the risk. And again, the civilian population doesn’t have a say and many asari even think they are just a superstition. OK, valid. I guess I just get pissed off about how they withheld information until their asses were on fire - when Thessia was attacked. I kind of see them as a bit of an "uppity" race who believe themselves superior to everyone else. Benezia is another example of that with regard to Saren. So, fine, I'll cede the point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 13:58:11 GMT
You say that like it would be a bad thing. It's a bad thing. Who knows what Not-Quite-Shepard might get up to? Imagine a Renegade Shepard running the Reapers? I can see that Shepard doing the sorts of things TIM might do. Human dominance indeed. Unless, what Bioware wants to do is turn the story so that we end up playing the villain - which is something a number of fans have asked for. It doesn't matter anyways... it still doesn't make destroy the "cleanest" ending to canonize. That numerous people here prefer it over the others is obvious. It still generates more changes within the galaxy than control..
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Post by warden on Apr 22, 2018 14:03:34 GMT
regardless, the genius that thought that having different endings was a good idea, should not touch a pen ever again.
ME3 like the previous two games, should have been a single ending with a bit of "different" small outcomes with some characters and that's that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2018 14:24:15 GMT
regardless, the genius that thought that having different endings was a good idea, should not touch a pen ever again. ME3 like the previous two games, should have been a single ending with a bit of "different" small outcomes with some characters and that's that. It still doesn't matter. It's been done... “The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.” The fans who prefer other endings than destroy exist. Likewise, ME:A exists and there are fans who like it. All the denial in the world changes none of that. If they keep all the endings valid and they keep ME:A valid by simply pushing the timeline ahead in the Milky Way by 600 years or more, they are not actually cancelling out anyone's decisions. The ones insisting on a canon ending gain nothing by such a declaration anyways since they would still get to "explore" the rest of the Milky Way galaxy... just less than a krogan lifetime later. Their precious destroy ending would still be valid (along with all the others, including modded ones which would definitely get canceled out if any Bioware ending were declared canon).
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 22, 2018 14:38:30 GMT
So because they kept a “mental” facility as it were for an incurable disease you make it their fault the Reapers converted them? Or the fact that they are an obscure part of Asari culture most don’t know about? Sorry that’s very petty. Did you miss Morinth? Was she in a "mental" facility? Samara cited HER ALONE as having an astronomical body count. Any reason to think their aren't more out there? Call it petty, but that's where I am. You aren't required to agree. No I didn’t forget. Still again not the whole species is responsible. And no I won’t agree.
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Post by warden on Apr 22, 2018 14:38:56 GMT
regardless, the genius that thought that having different endings was a good idea, should not touch a pen ever again. ME3 like the previous two games, should have been a single ending with a bit of "different" small outcomes with some characters and that's that. It still doesn't matter. It's been done... “The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.” The fans who prefer other endings than destroy exist. Likewise, ME:A exists and there are fans who like it. All the denial in the world changes none of that. If they keep all the endings valid and they keep ME:A valid by simply pushing the timeline ahead in the Milky Way by 600 years or more, they are not actually cancelling out anyone's decisions. The ones insisting on a canon ending gain nothing by such a declaration anyways since they would still get to "explore" the rest of the Milky Way galaxy... just less than a krogan lifetime later. I don't know what in the blazes are you talking about. I only said that Mass Effect 3 should have been planned with a start and an ending, not start and three colors endings, i'm not talking about of destroy should have been the only ending or my mom should have been the only ending, i'm talking about that they should have thinked the game with an ending on their mind, not let's make the game and offer three endings to make people feel that their decisions mattered. Even more, I dare say those three endings are a last minute asspulls, and it doesn't matter who prefers what, the thing is, the endings were openly disliked, and more importantly, they turned out to be not a good idea.
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