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Post by alanc9 on Apr 22, 2018 23:18:58 GMT
Isn't that pretty much what Wrex says?
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Post by griffith82 on Apr 22, 2018 23:26:29 GMT
Isn't that pretty much what Wrex says? Almost word for word.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 0:31:01 GMT
Again, I disagree. Control is factually the cleanest... involving the least change. Reapers still exist under the control of something/someone. They just go back to dark space (after helping to repair the damage) without completing that harvest. I'm not saying which ending I like the best... I'm saying it's a matter of fact that it is control that changes things the least. The state of the galaxy remains essentially the same as it was at the start of ME1. With destroy and synthesis there are more changes. I accept you like destroy's changes the best. Not everyone agrees with you on that... so a canon ending arbitrarily tells the other side F-You. I don't think that's necessary and I would prefer they didn't do that. ETA: There are other issues with putting the timeline close to the end of ME3 that persist despite what ending choice Bioware might declare canon. Some players wiped out the Quarians, others wiped out the geth instead; others secured a peace. So, does your envisioned galaxy contain quarians? To say yes, tells everyone who sided with the geth F-You. Genophage cured or not cured? Which side of that issues gets told F-You? What about the rachni? Did they wind up becoming allies or enemies or was the queen/breeder wiped out? You're not just asking them to declare one ending canon, you're asking them to lock in one of side of every single possible major decision the players could have possibly made in that final game. For what? The privelege of exploring the same galaxy you could still explore without declaring any choice canon, it would just be 600 or so years later. I'm not really happy with describing choosing a particular outcome as a "F-You" to anybody. It doesn't invalidate those choices any more than our various Shepards invalidate each other. I presume most of us have made most if not all of the available choices, at one time or another. (I think I've done pretty much everything myself except for some of the Renegade petty douchebaggery.) OF course, this may just mean that I have a poor grasp of ending partisanship. I've done them all and chosen them in accordance with the personality of Shepard I was trying to create. I'd hate to invalidate most of my playthroughs based on Bioware suddenly locking into singular choices (that are not even really limited to the endings only, but occur throughout the games). I got into these games because Bioware told me I could make these sorts of changes... and I think my reason is as good as "wanting to explore the rest of the Milky Way"... particularly when exploring the rest of the Milky Way can still be done without locking in those decisions and returning to the Milky Way, an edgier PC, a darker story, etc. can also be done without trying to "erase" ME:A from existence. As far as whether or not I'd buy and play the next game depends SOLELY on whether or not that next game is a good, single player RPG with a new story. I can't play it if it's multiplayer only and I'm just not interested in buying a remake of the old Trilogy as long as I can play the old Trilogy on the equipment I have.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 3:02:57 GMT
I prefer Milky Way.
I think there's plenty more there, and I facepalm at any Andromeda NPC saying there's nothing left there. Utterly idiotic.
But I also think they did indeed start something in Andromeda and there's potentially fantastic things there (too bad most of that fantastic is a far cry from happening in MEA itself). And I've never been against expanding the MEU into Andromeda itself, I just think MEA was relatively weaksauce about bothering to do it (it was less 'this is fantastic we had to go there!' and more, disappointingly, 'well I guess we have to go here now that there's 'obviously' no way of staying in the Milky Way').
Preference: Andromeda focused story (for now) that just greater bridges Milky Way involvement, matters, and ability to travel to it.
In terms of the general concept of expanding MEU to other places, I'm all for that, again in itself. This has meant Andromeda, but it can mean other galaxies, strange crossings to other sectors of the universe, time travel (really), alternate dimensions, parallel dimensions, different perspectives on past events, and so on. Just be good and stick to the basics of the series: like the mass effect (MEA was worryingly away from that but I have hopes that new Andromeda stuff will have intriguing involvement with mass effect later on), aliens, ship voyages, machines and organics, choices and consequences, and so on.
I just think there's far more to tell in or with Milky Way than some assert.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 3:12:08 GMT
While i prefer MW as a setting that's only because Andromeda as it was represented in the last game was a lot less fleshed out and inspired which needn't necessarily be the case in a hypothetical future Mass Effect game. Would be pretty ballsy to return to Andromeda however I doubt it would carry Andromeda in the title especially if the story is unrelated. My personal preference would be to re-create the old setting in Andromeda by shifting the time-line 500 years and having the milky way species build a new Mass relay network connecting their new homeworlds (re-establishing the council, spectres) and citadel space. Develop Andromedean citadel space as a geo-political and cultural setting and platform/infrastructure to rival the last and support further exploration of the great unknown that way we'd have the strengths of both settings in essentially a soft-reboot. I don't think they need to fast forward so much. Just do a regular ME ass-pull of the opening text explaining (and surprising many of us with) that the Heleus Cluster found out a way to bridge to Milky Way. Part of the story will be in explaining this bridge and hopefully involving its matter more than a throwaway codex line. So in just years, there's a way back. We can then have a story that involves the Milky Way but in a limited fashion (insert mystery about what's up with it), keeps us somewhat in the Cluster and getting to see changes to particular places, especially Eos of course (less empty vehicle roaming though), and getting ways to explore outward, perhaps even use our newer tech to institute a sort of new relay(ish) system. Depending on what Bioware wants, we could either play as Ryder, or twin choice (some alternate lines/takes on things), or have Ryder as companion, or Ryder as secondary character, or no Ryder, whatever. I'm not ambivalent about Ryder, I just think they have options - the minimum I need is to know that Ryder is up to more things and can be followed up on if it makes sense to; and of course we get advancement and/or conclusion to Ryder mysteries.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 23, 2018 3:17:42 GMT
I would prefer them to stay in the Andromeda Galaxy.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 3:42:39 GMT
Well......which Milky Way? I want the post-Destroy one. I still go with: -enough time having passed -potential fan rage over things subsiding (it'll be a decade or almost..) -enough new lore being added with bits of MEA and some of a next game -desire to see MW stuff overriding other concerns that Bioware could effectively find a mostly merged galactic state. One I come up with includes: -Reaper-derived tech, something to put on somewhat similar level to whatever Heleus reaches (that whole gameplay synchronicity the series always has) -But no Reapers, or at least story-confined and/or transformed in a unified enough way -Whatever of Shepard passes long enough to become that Legend, though Bioware can then decide whether to do the whole resurrection of a Legend or not (regardless of what you or I say or want, its true that there are people that never want to see them again and people that won't buy the game unless they perk up at hearing Shepard is back) -Destroyland hesitantly gets some particular tech that requires mental connections, Controlland steadily and suspiciously integrates into tech with mental connections, Synthesis reaches heights of it (like much tech) but crashes so it still reaches a familiar level with the other two; Andromeda increases mental connections through SAM-tech and so whatever becomes of Milky Way won't be too alien -Earth is rebuilt no matter what -Refuse is as canon as ME2 Shepard Dies (as in, it really isn't except to the game-world it takes place in), or else there's a particularly crafty way in which to make it still count (there's hundreds of years to adjust things) -Destroyland is seen as problematic repeat of past mistakes, but this time it again happens better. Control is seen as perpetuating general bad patterns in the name of progress, but at least the horrific system of the Reapers is replaced by a benevolent dictatorship for a time. Synthesis is the grand mistake that brings a new nightmare, to assuage most players who didn't like Synthesis, but it carries some novel hopes and includes some interesting revelations we can only hear of if we took this path. -Shepard is made out, in the end and with whatever outcomes, to be considered not as monsturous as he might actually behave, nor end up as exactly highly heroic as you might try to make him be. In life/post-life and death/reputation. Thus just 'Legend'. He's known and generally respected by all; a bigger case than how he was shortly post-ME1. -In terms of Indoctrination, the matter is addressed, and made less vague, but it is never (at least in next game) explicitly explained that Shepard was or wasn't Indoctrinated and did/didn't lead the galaxy into danger/near-extermination. What will be maintained is that he tried to save humanity and the galaxy, and he defeated the Reapers regardless of anything. Room is given to give the first direct bits that suggest how this was done so, both obvious (a Crucible fired) and secret (whatever Bioware likes). At least this is my preference. -Since we don't/rarely directly see and experience the soon-post-ME3 world, things are explained in ways that we can still fill in blanks with our own perspectives. Maybe it was like the EC slides, or maybe it was all a disaster and only in recent years/decades/centuries is the Milky Way back to civilized state and with false memories/histories (see: ANGARA, in a way). Cue mysteries etc etc; just stuff that may never get resolved, but just get layers. Again, my preference. If Bioware wants to treat the MET/ME3-ending like their Bible - something with a supposedly clear narrative but ends up being argued about forever and keeps getting different believed perspectives.. honestly? personally? They can be my guest. Spices the setting up. But going back to my point - they could absolutely have a unified galactic state that could keep most players happy enough. Then it can have bits of difference as determined by Mass Effect Archives. The concern was more about the shortly post-ME3 setting, not one centuries in the future. The challenge for MEA was in 1)Making a game as a new studio 2)Making a 'fresh start' setting. Had their hands full. So mostly didn't even bother with direct tie-ins or getting into the mud/knots of solving the Milky Way. Its not that it can't be done, IMO, its that it may have seemed a nightmare to deal with. *I say 'he' for Shepard because I've almost always played male.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 3:56:28 GMT
ME3 - What matters is what happens in all cases where the game is completed... The Crucible is fired and a wave of dark energy is released across the galaxy. The rest doesn't matter... and I believe, it never really did with respect to any plans for future stories in ME that Bioware were concocting even before ME3 was released. This is the part where I find it problematic. Shepard has to be written out. No way around that since he's either dead/not dead, a Reaper or "synthesized". There also has to be peace with synthetics under any circumstances, though whether that's because of synthesis or any other reason becomes irrelevant. The rest can be sidestepped (even who lives on Tuchanka, since if you didn't save the rachni and also didn't cure the genophage, there's no way the rachni could be there - plus, the krogan proved capable of wiping out the rachni). All I'm saying is that certain conditions MUST be met to account for a post-Destroyed (and, yes, I get the distinction) ending. Yes, a darker ending was the original intention. The way I've heard it, Shepard definitely died and so did Earth, but the Reapers were stopped. And that's not even accounting for whatever plan they had for dark energy, nor even for the Leviathan. Personally, I'd love to see the next "big bad" be the Leviathan. They clearly been waiting for over a billion years for the Catalyst to find a solution to the organic/synthetic war. Once that happens, they're ready so swoop in and take control (or at least attempt it). It would be interesting if the Leviathan, who also seem to possibly be biotic, were the real problem: it was their level of power that was causing the stars to age faster and only by defeating them could the galaxy be saved. In other words, they were always the problem but, because of their vast power, couldn't see it. EDIT: It would be truly interesting if they somehow tied the kett into this, having their exaltation being done to stop the dark energy from rising because it stops biotics. This could sort of bind the MW and Andromeda together. Not entirely sure how it would work but something like what I suggested. They had their concepts that were not just 'Shepard is dead', it at least appears. As well as confirmation that they DID plan an overt 'indoctrination process' gameplay sequence. Enough that what we got in ME3 was just either something suspiciously like indoctrination, or something shoddily manipulated and cut apart (this is very possible I have to say; but point is that it doesn't seem as simple as core of game only being 'fire crucible, bye Reapers'), or an intended but more subtle indoctrination sequence. So its not just as simple as 'boom dead', necessarily. *Necessarily* The question is more whether Bioware wants to handle that again. Obviously with ME3 they were clear that 'Shepard's Story' is over, but what Bioware has meant by 'story' at times has at times just meant 'full game/content focus' (like DA2 was 'Hawke's story'; lo and behold he returns, and for all we know, we may see him again). And with MEA it now means we at least may indeed never play as Shepard again, as enough time has passed. But its not like they internally have no reason to ever address the matter of Shepard. I'm 100% sure they do have reason. But its probably, by now, among all sorts of other things that may or may not be dealt with, instead of a necessary core thing that they must revolve a game around (again, his 'Story'). Similarly but not as drastic, for the Milky Way. We never ever ever HAVE TO go there again. It was affected by the big wave and at most, all Bioware MUST do is not look too suspicious in its avoiding the topic or embellishment on the fate of that galaxy. But its also not a thing that they actually CAN'T deal with again. They absolutely can, even if it'll be a transformed setting - as it should be a decade after the last game taking place here.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 4:00:10 GMT
It would not be hard to bring Shepard back. For the guy to tell the story, and give the details of what happened on the Citadel, after Shepard took the magic carpet ride up to lala land, someone had to have been there, and survive to tell the first story. The guy does say the details have changed. It happened a long time ago. So those details can be anything. I'd go so far as to say the details can be *everything*. A whole other game, theoretically (though probably won't), could happen around and about those 'details'. I doubt Bioware would have the desire nor encouragement to do this though. But sure I could get psyched up about a game with a protagonist that starts around ME2-ME3 time, progresses through post-ME3 with their own take on things, and somehow even catches up with Andromeda (oh don't give me that look - scifi be scifi). A separate and parallel perception could be fascinating, and at best, provide a fresh boost to the Andromeda setting that it needed with its first game. Its big problem would be in not seeming too much like a non-canon character that just coincidentally is close enough to events that they're sometimes right there, but never close enough that the previous protagonist(s) and other characters don't meet them and they don't come up in conversation in past media. This was already bad enough in MEA with everything Ryder. So it'd have to be a VERY fresh take on things, and an easy approach would be for us to play a sort of 'spy' instead of 'special ops' (Shepard) or 'explorer' (Ryder). The spycraft and stealth mechacnics can take a new priority, but events (like Reaper War, like post-war, like start of Andromeda conflicts) can pull our character into something more directly combative.
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Post by SwobyJ on Apr 23, 2018 4:08:26 GMT
One last thing if there were a post-ME3 MW setting. The Council has to be disbanded. Completely. Not just adding the krogan, volus and elcor, but disbanded. They're proven ineffectual and unwilling to do whatever it takes to defend the galaxy. They remain self-centered and less willing to do what it takes than humanity (who, depending on your choices in ME1, are willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good). No, they need to go. I don't know what would replace them but we can't have them anymore. At the least, the asari need to be booted, since they only agreed to help when their own backs were against the wall. (The turian councilor found a way to help, even if he couldn't do it himself. The salarian STG and some of their own forces also agreed to help, because they knew that some whiny dalatrass shouldn't get her way when it hurt others. Wouldn't punish the entire race just because of her.) A conflict I always wanted was a post-war tension and fight between the fighters and uniters of a New Earth (not just human) and the remains of Council power grasping onto what they still have, which admittedly is a lot. We'd be mostly rooting for the New Earth but the writers could certainly put sympathetic and pro New Council details in as well, especially given the spotty legacy they have, which is both bad AND good. Or at least could be written to include good takes on old things and new good things. Now the end of such a game would include the end of such a 'Council', but I'm just saying I'd like to see them lose the power (for good and SOME ill outcome), instead of just read about it in the codex.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 23, 2018 4:30:23 GMT
I would prefer them to stay in the Andromeda Galaxy. Is this because you want Andromeda to get proper development, or because you actually like the Andromeda setting better? I prefer the MW as a setting, but I’d want the Andromeda story properly developed and concluded before recentering on the MW.
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Post by Pearl on Apr 23, 2018 4:44:24 GMT
I prefer the Milky Way, but I'm not opposed to having more stories told in the Andromeda galaxy. Perhaps not a continuation of any of the plot points from the game, but they really heavily emphasized that we were limited to one cluster, and I'm curious about what else is out there. I can't help but shake the feeling the Bioware shot their creative wad in terms of alien design right out of the gate in ME1, with truly exotic races like the Elcor and Hanar, but hopefully they'll be able to get the ol noggin joggin and come up with races far more inspired than the Angara and the AngaraKett next time around.
Assuming there is a next time, that is. It'd be pretty sad if there wasn't, because there's so much potential left in the franchise, but at the same time I can't really blame EA for not wanting to touch the IP again.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 23, 2018 5:14:44 GMT
I would prefer them to stay in the Andromeda Galaxy. Is this because you want Andromeda to get proper development, or because you actually like the Andromeda setting better? I prefer the MW as a setting, but I’d want the Andromeda story properly developed and concluded before recent rating on the MW. A little of both. I mean granted it is close but I do think with the proper time they can turn Andromeda into something truly special.
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Post by ahglock on Apr 23, 2018 6:23:00 GMT
Sounds like an interesting setting to me. Sounds like a dystopian future. I don't think I care for it in my Mass Effect. Heh I was thinking of running a PNP mass effect game where you were in a post war setting where the reapers were dead but the reaperized enemies were still alive and wrecking things. And even the dead reapers would continue to transform people into husks etc. It was going to be a survival horror setting, just couldn't nail down a system to run it in. Man I wish they had designed one. I could have done it in the hero system, but damn that would be a lot of work. If you don't get a high enough score when picking destroy I figure the setting is pretty damn dystopian.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Apr 23, 2018 6:42:56 GMT
Andromeda, we can get back to MW later on, maybe after 2 games in Andromeda? I like both but its Andromeda now that tickles me brain! I want to see more than heleus cluster, Andromeda is so full of stars (teehee).
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Post by warden on Apr 23, 2018 6:48:48 GMT
You know, in the end, what will happen is that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way and all will go to hell.
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Post by Element Zero on Apr 23, 2018 7:15:09 GMT
Sounds like a dystopian future. I don't think I care for it in my Mass Effect. Heh I was thinking of running a PNP mass effect game where you were in a post war setting where the reapers were dead but the reaperized enemies were still alive and wrecking things. And even the dead reapers would continue to transform people into husks etc. It was going to be a survival horror setting, just couldn't nail down a system to run it in. Man I wish they had designed one. I could have done it in the hero system, but damn that would be a lot of work. If you don't get a high enough score when picking destroy I figure the setting is pretty damn dystopian. I’ve always enjoyed PnP game design. I think the Cypher System could handle Mass Effect pretty well in most ways. I’ve not yet had the gumption to try my had at developing individual Biotic Powers, the somewhat unique feature of ME, for Cypher. Cypher System would do well specifically with representing the ME we find in the lore. Crazy ass Super Soldiers like Shepard and Ryder fit better in SP VGs than in TTRPGs.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 23, 2018 7:57:36 GMT
You know, in the end, what will happen is that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way and all will go to hell. Not really. Very few objects will actually collide with each other as the two galaxies merge to form Milkdromeda.
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Post by warden on Apr 23, 2018 8:00:17 GMT
You know, in the end, what will happen is that Andromeda will collide with the Milky Way and all will go to hell. Not really. Very few objects will actually collide with each other as the two galaxies merge to form Milkdromeda. I know, I wast just being dramatic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 13:42:13 GMT
It would not be hard to bring Shepard back. For the guy to tell the story, and give the details of what happened on the Citadel, after Shepard took the magic carpet ride up to lala land, someone had to have been there, and survive to tell the first story. The guy does say the details have changed. It happened a long time ago. So those details can be anything. I'd go so far as to say the details can be *everything*. A whole other game, theoretically (though probably won't), could happen around and about those 'details'. I doubt Bioware would have the desire nor encouragement to do this though. But sure I could get psyched up about a game with a protagonist that starts around ME2-ME3 time, progresses through post-ME3 with their own take on things, and somehow even catches up with Andromeda (oh don't give me that look - scifi be scifi). A separate and parallel perception could be fascinating, and at best, provide a fresh boost to the Andromeda setting that it needed with its first game. Its big problem would be in not seeming too much like a non-canon character that just coincidentally is close enough to events that they're sometimes right there, but never close enough that the previous protagonist(s) and other characters don't meet them and they don't come up in conversation in past media. This was already bad enough in MEA with everything Ryder. So it'd have to be a VERY fresh take on things, and an easy approach would be for us to play a sort of 'spy' instead of 'special ops' (Shepard) or 'explorer' (Ryder). The spycraft and stealth mechacnics can take a new priority, but events (like Reaper War, like post-war, like start of Andromeda conflicts) can pull our character into something more directly combative. It's an interesting idea... a real writing challenge though given everything so far.
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Post by Ahriman on Apr 23, 2018 13:57:33 GMT
After ME3 I was ready for both canon ending and Andromeda, they chose Andromeda. So going to MW now would look like a regress to me. Despite some questionable plot-marks in MEA, Andromeda mostly remains a clean state. If new writers can't work with that, how can I trust them with MW?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2018 16:21:35 GMT
I didn't mind the Milky Way, but after 3 games of it, I was looking for something new.
I did enjoy the gameplay as well as the story, but like Jack O'Neill says, when you've been eating fruit loops for who knows how long, a little variety helps.
Would I mind going back to the Milky Way? Sure, but just something a little different than with Reapers in it.
I do prefer Andromeda, due to it's exploration.
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Post by Iakus on Apr 23, 2018 16:54:01 GMT
I didn't mind the Milky Way, but after 3 games of it, I was looking for something new. I did enjoy the gameplay as well as the story, but like Jack O'Neill says, when you've been eating fruit loops for who knows how long, a little variety helps. Would I mind going back to the Milky Way? Sure, but just something a little different than with Reapers in it. I do prefer Andromeda, due to it's exploration. 100,000,000+ stars is a hell of a lot of fruit loops to get tired of.
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Post by hydroflame20 on Apr 23, 2018 17:42:58 GMT
Not a fare question give how Andromeda was lol if it was successful then Ok but idk I go with milkyway.
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Post by KaiserShep on Apr 23, 2018 17:53:01 GMT
I didn't mind the Milky Way, but after 3 games of it, I was looking for something new. I did enjoy the gameplay as well as the story, but like Jack O'Neill says, when you've been eating fruit loops for who knows how long, a little variety helps. Would I mind going back to the Milky Way? Sure, but just something a little different than with Reapers in it. I do prefer Andromeda, due to it's exploration. 100,000,000+ stars is a hell of a lot of fruit loops to get tired of. Firstly, there's no such thing as getting tired of Fruit Loops. This metaphor is bad and Jack O'Neill should feel bad. But anyway, I think the metaphor doesn't really get to the real problem with all those hundreds of millions of stars. The real question is: how do you go to these other stars without touching the ones we've already affected? The obvious solution is a prequel, since a prequel allows us to go anywhere. Then the question becomes: will players want it? I wonder how people would feel if BioWare just straight up gave the idyllic retcon solution and gave us a post-war Destroy setting that simply wipes the reapers clean from the setting, but keeps every other faction, including the geth. Personally I'd be just fine with that. It kinda goes with my sad little headcanon that I used when doing the Citadel DLC lol
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