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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 2:27:23 GMT
I think FTLing away was the plan, but the scourge made that impossible - or at least required more careful course plotting. They probably expected their shields would hold until they could get away. Yeah, I've thought that might be the reason but again nothing was detailed explaining that. Previously FTL didn't care about crap in the way, you just jumped into FTL, flying through suns etc. So why not now? It could be the scourge, but they needed something that said space magic scourge stops FTL!! oh noes we can't escape.
Whatever the reason they dropped the writing ball here. They might not have told us that, but they did show us. The Hyperion dropped out of FTL (and was damaged) when it hit the scourge. Since they had no contact with the Nexus, they chose to continue to Habitat 7. I'd always assumed that was also what happened to the other Arks. They ran into the scourge and were damaged, leaving them vulnerable to the kett.
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Post by Element Zero on May 16, 2018 2:58:45 GMT
I think FTLing away was the plan, but the scourge made that impossible - or at least required more careful course plotting. They probably expected their shields would hold until they could get away. Yeah, I've thought that might be the reason but again nothing was detailed explaining that. Previously FTL didn't care about crap in the way, you just jumped into FTL, flying through suns etc. So why not now? It could be the scourge, but they needed something that said space magic scourge stops FTL!! oh noes we can't escape.
Whatever the reason they dropped the writing ball here. Flying through suns and stuff? Maybe with the little Normandy icon, but not in reality/lore. Flying into a sun at FTL is exactly what it sounds like: flying into a sun while moving very fast. It’s suicide. Same for flying into anything, really. This is why FTL vectors must be plotted with care before jumping. (Think back to Joker telling EDI that he didn’t care where they jumped, as long as they escaped the Collectors. She had to calculate a safe vector.) If we hit something, we are dead and that something could be in really bad shape. Imagine if you hit a populated world traveling at 13LY/day. F=MA, so that force would probably destroy the planet. The Scourge dramatically limits safe vectors in Heleus. I get the impression that it can’t always be seen well or consistently by sensors, so every trip is a risk. Then, there’s the fact that it moves and seems to grasp for ships (in the novel). It outright chases Rem Tech, of course. Bad stuff. As Liam says, whoever deployed it are some “Mutha Uckas”. (I wish we got to learn their real motives. Stopping the jardaan might’ve been worthwhile.)
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Post by alanc9 on May 16, 2018 3:32:05 GMT
Of course, ITRW there's just about nothing to hit in space. Even if you're in a system, just point yourself perpendicular to the local system plane and fire up the drive.
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Post by Element Zero on May 16, 2018 4:24:59 GMT
Of course, ITRW there's just about nothing to hit in space. Even if you're in a system, just point yourself perpendicular to the local system plane and fire up the drive. That’s the problem with the Scourge. The crap is everywhere, can barely be seen and can’t be anticipated.
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 6:34:26 GMT
Yeah, I've thought that might be the reason but again nothing was detailed explaining that. Previously FTL didn't care about crap in the way, you just jumped into FTL, flying through suns etc. So why not now? It could be the scourge, but they needed something that said space magic scourge stops FTL!! oh noes we can't escape.
Whatever the reason they dropped the writing ball here. Flying through suns and stuff? Maybe with the little Normandy icon, but not in reality/lore. Flying into a sun at FTL is exactly what it sounds like: flying into a sun while moving very fast. It’s suicide. Same for flying into anything, really. This is why FTL vectors must be plotted with care before jumping. (Think back to Joker telling EDI that he didn’t care where they jumped, as long as they escaped the Collectors. She had to calculate a safe vector.) If we hit something, we are dead and that something could be in really bad shape. Imagine if you hit a populated world traveling at 13LY/day. F=MA, so that force would probably destroy the planet. The Scourge dramatically limits safe vectors in Heleus. I get the impression that it can’t always be seen well or consistently by sensors, so every trip is a risk. Then, there’s the fact that it moves and seems to grasp for ships (in the novel). It outright chases Rem Tech, of course. Bad stuff. As Liam says, whoever deployed it are some “Mutha Uckas”. (I wish we got to learn their real motives. Stopping the jardaan might’ve been worthwhile.)
That was not my impression. To me the threat if there was any was for when they dropped out of FTL into something. Like when you biotic charge the ships are immaterial. Its like on the suicide run the danger of jumping through the omega relay showed up when they dropped out of FTL not before. Without the reaper iff it wasn't that'd you'd FTL through solid object and blow up but materialize in the middle of it with no chance to react. You literally land in a safe zone surrounded by things that would kill you if you flew into them. You had to effective phase through half of it to land in a safe zone. You passed through the doughnut of death landing in the doughnut hole of life. If you could collide with things at FTL speeds that would be impossible.
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 6:39:24 GMT
Yeah, I've thought that might be the reason but again nothing was detailed explaining that. Previously FTL didn't care about crap in the way, you just jumped into FTL, flying through suns etc. So why not now? It could be the scourge, but they needed something that said space magic scourge stops FTL!! oh noes we can't escape.
Whatever the reason they dropped the writing ball here. They might not have told us that, but they did show us. The Hyperion dropped out of FTL (and was damaged) when it hit the scourge. Since they had no contact with the Nexus, they chose to continue to Habitat 7. I'd always assumed that was also what happened to the other Arks. They ran into the scourge and were damaged, leaving them vulnerable to the kett.
That was my impression from the Asari arc. But having just played it it did not seem to me like the scourge pulled them out of FTL with the Hyperion. It seemed to me like the dropped out on their own to fly into the system a bit slower(which makes sense 600 years is a long time to hope your guestimate on where planets will be is right) and then just ran right into the scourge as they missed it. When they woke up Ryder it wasn't a emergency it was just getting mission ready, I'd think if something pulled you out of FTL you'd be in more emergency mode.
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Post by Element Zero on May 16, 2018 7:34:12 GMT
Flying through suns and stuff? Maybe with the little Normandy icon, but not in reality/lore. Flying into a sun at FTL is exactly what it sounds like: flying into a sun while moving very fast. It’s suicide. Same for flying into anything, really. This is why FTL vectors must be plotted with care before jumping. (Think back to Joker telling EDI that he didn’t care where they jumped, as long as they escaped the Collectors. She had to calculate a safe vector.) If we hit something, we are dead and that something could be in really bad shape. Imagine if you hit a populated world traveling at 13LY/day. F=MA, so that force would probably destroy the planet. The Scourge dramatically limits safe vectors in Heleus. I get the impression that it can’t always be seen well or consistently by sensors, so every trip is a risk. Then, there’s the fact that it moves and seems to grasp for ships (in the novel). It outright chases Rem Tech, of course. Bad stuff. As Liam says, whoever deployed it are some “Mutha Uckas”. (I wish we got to learn their real motives. Stopping the jardaan might’ve been worthwhile.)
That was not my impression. To me the threat if there was any was for when they dropped out of FTL into something. Like when you biotic charge the ships are immaterial. Its like on the suicide run the danger of jumping through the omega relay showed up when they dropped out of FTL not before. Without the reaper iff it wasn't that'd you'd FTL through solid object and blow up but materialize in the middle of it with no chance to react. You literally land in a safe zone surrounded by things that would kill you if you flew into them. You had to effective phase through half of it to land in a safe zone. You passed through the doughnut of death landing in the doughnut hole of life. If you could collide with things at FTL speeds that would be impossible.
Biotic Charge is a bit weird in that it’s nrver really explained. (I have some ideas of how to explain it; but ultimately they just invented a cool power and hoped we’d not question too much.) Charge ceased targeting through physical obstructions after ME2, unless I’m gravely mistaken. (I do use Charge from time to time.) We now have Biotic Blink, though, which is fun but non-sensical. Mass Effect FTL technology doesn’t make a thing immaterial anymore that using Pull or Singularity on a target makes them immaterial. FTL-drives reduce mass within the immediate vicinity of the ship, allowing the vessel to bypass the speed barrier presented by relativity. The ship remains tangible and very capable of collisions. Tempest almost has one near Aya, barely avoiding a crash into the Kett fleet. (I’m curious as to how Tempest/SAM could detect the approaching mass shadow while in FTL.) When using Mass Relays, it works slightly differently. Two relays “connect” to create between them a corridor of “zero mass” space. This is why Relay travel is nearly like teleportation. The travel times are super short. The “Mass Effect” is SciFi, but the essentials are consistent if one allows for element zero and its special properties. It has never been about turning things intangible or shunting them into “hyperspace” as in Star Wars. It simply reduces mass, allowing us to exceed the speed of light while maintaining manageable mass and avoiding time dilation.
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Post by Ahriman on May 16, 2018 8:18:47 GMT
The main issue as mentioned is why they couldn't just FTL away. Now there could be a variety of lore friendly reasons for that as I don't think ships of this size are detailed much. So it is possible larger ships can't just jump to FTL that it has a lengthy wind up period which is problematic to pull off while under assault. But the why just never was gone into. And as pirates are seen as a threat to ships in the MW it owuld make sense that you need to do something time consuming to jump, as otherwise you almost always would be able to flee. It was implied in the Asari ark that they needed something like a long straight away while not under fire, but it was pretty vague. The Kett did show some ability to shut engines down when they first encountered the archon, but again it wasn't explained and up to this point tech like that I was unaware of existing. So some kind of WTF comment would have been nice. It's a new galaxy so new tech and abilities is fine but explain that. It's not that hard to invent some in-lore explanation for what happened - damage from Scourge, super EMS hit or sabotage from Kett "diplomats" - it's the fact that nobody bothered with it. Salarian Ark is the worst offender, because in the end of the day you save it by simply doing what it is able to do from the beginning.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 15:36:27 GMT
They might not have told us that, but they did show us. The Hyperion dropped out of FTL (and was damaged) when it hit the scourge. Since they had no contact with the Nexus, they chose to continue to Habitat 7. I'd always assumed that was also what happened to the other Arks. They ran into the scourge and were damaged, leaving them vulnerable to the kett.
That was my impression from the Asari arc. But having just played it it did not seem to me like the scourge pulled them out of FTL with the Hyperion. It seemed to me like the dropped out on their own to fly into the system a bit slower(which makes sense 600 years is a long time to hope your guestimate on where planets will be is right) and then just ran right into the scourge as they missed it. When they woke up Ryder it wasn't a emergency it was just getting mission ready, I'd think if something pulled you out of FTL you'd be in more emergency mode.
I'll give you that it's subject to interpretation. The game doesn't really tell us whether they were still in FTL when they were bringing Ryder out of cryo. I assumed that they were, and had started bringing the ship's crew and pathfinder team out of cryo since they were nearing their destination.
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 16:30:51 GMT
That was not my impression. To me the threat if there was any was for when they dropped out of FTL into something. Like when you biotic charge the ships are immaterial. Its like on the suicide run the danger of jumping through the omega relay showed up when they dropped out of FTL not before. Without the reaper iff it wasn't that'd you'd FTL through solid object and blow up but materialize in the middle of it with no chance to react. You literally land in a safe zone surrounded by things that would kill you if you flew into them. You had to effective phase through half of it to land in a safe zone. You passed through the doughnut of death landing in the doughnut hole of life. If you could collide with things at FTL speeds that would be impossible.
Biotic Charge is a bit weird in that it’s nrver really explained. (I have some ideas of how to explain it; but ultimately they just invented a cool power and hoped we’d not question too much.) Charge ceased targeting through physical obstructions after ME2, unless I’m gravely mistaken. (I do use Charge from time to time.) We now have Biotic Blink, though, which is fun but non-sensical. Mass Effect FTL technology doesn’t make a thing immaterial anymore that using Pull or Singularity on a target makes them immaterial. FTL-drives reduce mass within the immediate vicinity of the ship, allowing the vessel to bypass the speed barrier presented by relativity. The ship remains tangible and very capable of collisions. Tempest almost has one near Aya, barely avoiding a crash into the Kett fleet. (I’m curious as to how Tempest/SAM could detect the approaching mass shadow while in FTL.) When using Mass Relays, it works slightly differently. Two relays “connect” to create between them a corridor of “zero mass” space. This is why Relay travel is nearly like teleportation. The travel times are super short. The “Mass Effect” is SciFi, but the essentials are consistent if one allows for element zero and its special properties. It has never been about turning things intangible or shunting them into “hyperspace” as in Star Wars. It simply reduces mass, allowing us to exceed the speed of light while maintaining manageable mass and avoiding time dilation. And yet, you clearly do pass through things in order to get to the collector base. and I'm sure there are other examples somewhere we you FTL straight through things though we could hand wave that as a cut scene issue. And the lore lets you literally FTL through black holes, though how much those would qualify as objects is hard to say. Until the geth mass relay sensor plot device for Andromeda you can't see ahead of you and are flying blind presumably the tempest has something like that. But before that collisions would abound, asteroids, hell even dust, ships etc any uncharted system would be incredibly hazardous.
ME1-3 there clearly is no threat from the universe while in FTL and that includes collisions. The run on the collector base shows that. Whether they are immaterial or just glide around things like a balloon bouncing off an object they never explain. But the threat was always phrased as for when you drop out of FTL.
As for why singularity, lift don't probably because they aren't reducing your mass to the point you can be propelled into FTL.And while the mass effect is somewhat consistent what the effects are when you reduce something to negative mass so it maintains 0 mass while being propelled is kind of hard to guess so being somewhat immaterial easily could happen. They just don't really talk about how the FTL works, outside mass reduction element zero etc. The details are glossed over.
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 16:33:33 GMT
That was my impression from the Asari arc. But having just played it it did not seem to me like the scourge pulled them out of FTL with the Hyperion. It seemed to me like the dropped out on their own to fly into the system a bit slower(which makes sense 600 years is a long time to hope your guestimate on where planets will be is right) and then just ran right into the scourge as they missed it. When they woke up Ryder it wasn't a emergency it was just getting mission ready, I'd think if something pulled you out of FTL you'd be in more emergency mode.
I'll give you that it's subject to interpretation. The game doesn't really tell us whether they were still in FTL when they were bringing Ryder out of cryo. I assumed that they were, and had started bringing the ship's crew and pathfinder team out of cryo since they were nearing their destination. You could be right, and the scourge works as a great explanation for things. But I think it is a writing fail not to explain it directly.
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Post by alanc9 on May 16, 2018 17:14:43 GMT
They might not have told us that, but they did show us. The Hyperion dropped out of FTL (and was damaged) when it hit the scourge. Since they had no contact with the Nexus, they chose to continue to Habitat 7. I'd always assumed that was also what happened to the other Arks. They ran into the scourge and were damaged, leaving them vulnerable to the kett.
That was my impression from the Asari arc. But having just played it it did not seem to me like the scourge pulled them out of FTL with the Hyperion. It seemed to me like the dropped out on their own to fly into the system a bit slower(which makes sense 600 years is a long time to hope your guestimate on where planets will be is right) and then just ran right into the scourge as they missed it. When they woke up Ryder it wasn't a emergency it was just getting mission ready, I'd think if something pulled you out of FTL you'd be in more emergency mode.
The problem is that they seem to be both damaged and capable of FTLing around, which is how survivors and wreckage get all over the place. It works OK for Natanus, which seems to have suffered control damage but not much engine damage, at least until it finally wrecked in the Remav system while trying to reach H-047c. (Did they even encounter any kett?) It's not really clear how the kett keep following Leusinia around; we know that they orbited Eos, at least. And the Paarchero seems to have been to both Kadara and Elaaden before being captured, although in that case being followed by the kett makes a bit more sense.
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 17:21:59 GMT
That was my impression from the Asari arc. But having just played it it did not seem to me like the scourge pulled them out of FTL with the Hyperion. It seemed to me like the dropped out on their own to fly into the system a bit slower(which makes sense 600 years is a long time to hope your guestimate on where planets will be is right) and then just ran right into the scourge as they missed it. When they woke up Ryder it wasn't a emergency it was just getting mission ready, I'd think if something pulled you out of FTL you'd be in more emergency mode.
The problem is that they seem to be both damaged and capable of FTLing around, which is how survivors and wreckage get all over the place. It works OK for Natanus, which seems to have suffered control damage but not much engine damage, at least until it finally wrecked in the Remav system while trying to reach H-047c. (Did they even encounter kett?) It's not really clear how the kett keep following Leusinia around. And the Paarchero seems to have been to both Kadara and Elaaden before being captured, although in that case being followed by the kett makes a bit more sense. Given the cut scene thread with FTL jammers and missing worlds I wonder how much of this would have been explicitly explained if they had like 6 more months.
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Post by Element Zero on May 16, 2018 17:29:52 GMT
Biotic Charge is a bit weird in that it’s nrver really explained. (I have some ideas of how to explain it; but ultimately they just invented a cool power and hoped we’d not question too much.) Charge ceased targeting through physical obstructions after ME2, unless I’m gravely mistaken. (I do use Charge from time to time.) We now have Biotic Blink, though, which is fun but non-sensical. Mass Effect FTL technology doesn’t make a thing immaterial anymore that using Pull or Singularity on a target makes them immaterial. FTL-drives reduce mass within the immediate vicinity of the ship, allowing the vessel to bypass the speed barrier presented by relativity. The ship remains tangible and very capable of collisions. Tempest almost has one near Aya, barely avoiding a crash into the Kett fleet. (I’m curious as to how Tempest/SAM could detect the approaching mass shadow while in FTL.) When using Mass Relays, it works slightly differently. Two relays “connect” to create between them a corridor of “zero mass” space. This is why Relay travel is nearly like teleportation. The travel times are super short. The “Mass Effect” is SciFi, but the essentials are consistent if one allows for element zero and its special properties. It has never been about turning things intangible or shunting them into “hyperspace” as in Star Wars. It simply reduces mass, allowing us to exceed the speed of light while maintaining manageable mass and avoiding time dilation. And yet, you clearly do pass through things in order to get to the collector base. and I'm sure there are other examples somewhere we you FTL straight through things though we could hand wave that as a cut scene issue. And the lore lets you literally FTL through black holes, though how much those would qualify as objects is hard to say. Until the geth mass relay sensor plot device for Andromeda you can't see ahead of you and are flying blind presumably the tempest has something like that. But before that collisions would abound, asteroids, hell even dust, ships etc any uncharted system would be incredibly hazardous.
ME1-3 there clearly is no threat from the universe while in FTL and that includes collisions. The run on the collector base shows that. Whether they are immaterial or just glide around things like a balloon bouncing off an object they never explain. But the threat was always phrased as for when you drop out of FTL.
As for why singularity, lift don't probably because they aren't reducing your mass to the point you can be propelled into FTL.And while the mass effect is somewhat consistent what the effects are when you reduce something to negative mass so it maintains 0 mass while being propelled is kind of hard to guess so being somewhat immaterial easily could happen. They just don't really talk about how the FTL works, outside mass reduction element zero etc. The details are glossed over.
I’m not sure why you keep using the Collector Base as an example of this. Other than the trip through the Omega-4 Relay itself, which takes place through a clear, massless corridor, the rest happens at cruising speeds, not FTL. Had it been FTL, it wouldn’t have helped your argument, as the debris does inflict damage on Normandy. Maybe I’m missing something in your intent? You'll have to show me where “lore lets you literally FTL through black holes”. I can show you two very specific examples to the contrary. In ME2, the Omega-4 Relay desposits us in a “small safe zone” amidst an expanse of “black holes and exploding suns”. (Those are the game’s words.) These objects are extremely dangerous, and it’s their presence that causes the debris field, rather than the debris field that causes the danger. The drift of several hundred thousand kilometers at FTL, which is average for Relay travel, is deadly when it passes into the mass shadow of a stellar body. Since this part of space is densely packed, the Omega-4 Relay has to be different. It had to be different because mass shadows will destroy your ship at FTL. Otherwise, its builders wouldn’t need such a special way in and out. That rigmarole is not security by design anymore than building a Keep on a height. It’s physics at work. In MEA, we have a black hole looming in the center of the cluster. We can “scan” it from Pfeiffer System, with the game commenting that this extreme distance is as close as we can safely approach. If you pay attention to the flight vectors in MEA, they make at least a token effort to plot a safe course. They never pass through the black hole or planets, which would allow much faster travel times. Yes, we fly through nebulae and dust. In real life that could be a problem. There are limits to the writers’ knowledge and to reasonable devotion to science in a SciFi game. Maybe the zero-M field of an FTL drive is sufficient to negate the mass of any dust that would collide with Tempest? (Pseudoscience for an imaginary situation.) It’s certainly insufficient to do the same to large, dense objects. If it’s safe to fly through stellar bodies, ask yourself why we still plot zig-zag courses through Heleus to planets whose destinations we know well? Wouldn’t it be more intelligent to fly straight to the planet, cutting countless LY off the journey? The answer is because those zig-zag paths are the safe paths through space. They are the paths that don’t fly you into stars, planets, moons, asteroids, the Scourge or other massive objects. As to the game not explaining FTL, I’d disagree. We get a pretty thorough explanation of this stuff. Maybe check out the Wiki and/or MET codices? I can see how you came to your view of FTL, but it doesn’t match the info we have.
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Post by alanc9 on May 16, 2018 17:45:54 GMT
@ ahglock: Maybe so.
It looks like Bio's work process is that missions and scenes are constructed around the emotional beats and tropes the devs want to hit. (The NWN design outline is kicking around someplace, so they've been working this way since forever.) So I can see how the mechanics of why this segment actually occurs in-universe could just be one of the those TBD things that didn't actually get looked at.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 18:16:12 GMT
I’m not sure why you keep using the Collector Base as an example of this. Other than the trip through the Omega-4 Relay itself, which takes place through a clear, massless corridor, the rest happens at cruising speeds, not FTL. Had it been FTL, it wouldn’t have helped your argument, as the debris does inflict damage on Normandy. Maybe I’m missing something in your intent? You'll have to show me where “lore lets you literally FTL through black holes”. I can show you two very specific examples to the contrary. In ME2, the Omega-4 Relay desposits us in a “small safe zone” amidst an expanse of “black holes and exploding suns”. (Those are the game’s words.) These objects are extremely dangerous, and it’s their presence that causes the debris field, rather than the debris field that causes the danger. The drift of several hundred thousand kilometers at FTL, which is average for Relay travel, is deadly when it passes into the mass shadow of a stellar body. Since this part of space is densely packed, the Omega-4 Relay has to be different. It had to be different because mass shadows will destroy your ship at FTL. Otherwise, its builders wouldn’t need such a special way in and out. That rigmarole is not security by design anymore than building a Keep on a height. It’s physics at work. In MEA, we have a black hole looming in the center of the cluster. We can “scan” it from Pfeiffer System, with the game commenting that this extreme distance is as close as we can safely approach. If you pay attention to the flight vectors in MEA, they make at least a token effort to plot a safe course. They never pass through the black hole or planets, which would allow much faster travel times. Yes, we fly through nebulae and dust. In real life that could be a problem. There are limits to the writers’ knowledge and to reasonable devotion to science in a SciFi game. Maybe the zero-M field of an FTL drive is sufficient to negate the mass of any dust that would collide with Tempest? (Pseudoscience for an imaginary situation.) It’s certainly insufficient to do the same to large, dense objects. If it’s safe to fly through stellar bodies, ask yourself why we still plot zig-zag courses through Heleus to planets whose destinations we know well? Wouldn’t it be more intelligent to fly straight to the planet, cutting countless LY off the journey? The answer is because those zig-zag paths are the safe paths through space. They are the paths that don’t fly you into stars, planets, moons, asteroids, the Scourge or other massive objects. As to the game not explaining FTL, I’d disagree. We get a pretty thorough explanation of this stuff. Maybe check out the Wiki and/or MET codices? I can see how you came to your view of FTL, but it doesn’t match the info we have.
My point with the collector base thing is it is a safe zone surrounded by exploding stars and black holes, to get there you have to go through exploding stars and black holes. Hence at FTL you are somehow ignoring those things. It's never described as a precisely plotted course that navigates through the one safe path but as you get deposited in the one safe place. And while parts of FTL is explained, what a collision would mean isn't they completely ignore that idea. And we zig-zag in the heleus from the beginning long before we would have any knowledge of what is a safe course. And it would seem even less safe if collision is a concern to fly towards systems you don't need to travel to. But zig zagging through because breaking down in system is safer than breaking down in the middle of nowhere or just because its a game mechanic that has nothing to do with the lore works as well.
This is one of those agree to disagree points as its just never explained anywhere that I'm aware of what FTL ships do if they hit an object, so its my last post on this.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 18:16:51 GMT
I'll give you that it's subject to interpretation. The game doesn't really tell us whether they were still in FTL when they were bringing Ryder out of cryo. I assumed that they were, and had started bringing the ship's crew and pathfinder team out of cryo since they were nearing their destination. You could be right, and the scourge works as a great explanation for things. But I think it is a writing fail not to explain it directly. I don't know the writer's intent, and am a bit hesitant to suggest that it's an outright fail. In any fiction where the consumer plays a role in creating the narrative, I think they leave some things ambiguous on purpose, to allow the player to fill in the blanks in whatever way best suits their narrative. Shrug. It looks like Bio's work process is that missions and scenes are constructed around the emotional beats and tropes the devs want to hit. This. There is frequently separation between world lore and gameplay, and I think that also applies to cutscenes. Examples: The science/lore of biotic charge is never explained, as in why you can charge through solid objects. I can write that off as saying that a biotic with that skill is able to vibrate their molecules at such a high frequency that the sub-atomic particles fit between the sub-atomic particles of the solid object you've passed through - or some other such nonsense. It's a cool combat mechanic, so it's in. And of course, when they wanted to add an "ammo" mechanic and make it a limited resource, they invented the thermal clip. It seemed to please shooter fans, but at the expense of Shepard become a less astute commander, imho. Shepard seemed to lose the ability to properly prepare for combat, counting on enemy drops to provide an adequate supply. ME lore tells us (among other things) that Opposing dreadnoughts open with a main gun artillery duel at EXTREME ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers... Neither dreadnoughts nor cruisers can use their main guns at close range; laying the bow on a moving target becomes impossible. Superheated thruster exhaust becomes a hazard. Of course, the fleets engaging in battle at the end of ME1 and ME3 didn't do any of that - they were all packed in at close range, for cutscene drama.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on May 16, 2018 18:22:16 GMT
True Pasquale, lore and cut scenes, game play or even story points don't always match. Heck per the original lore as i remember it a biotic would throw one or two powers and then be too tired to go on. That never played out in game and even less so in ME2 on with the short cooldowns. But I guess where is the real lore is it the codex, the story, game play, books all have slightly different takes on a variety of topics.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 18:32:37 GMT
True Pasquale, lore and cut scenes, game play or even story points don't always match. Heck per the original lore as i remember it a biotic would throw one or two powers and then be too tired to go on. That never played out in game and even less so in ME2 on with the short cooldowns. But I guess where is the real lore is it the codex, the story, game play, books all have slightly different takes on a variety of topics. I think each of us decides for ourselves, no? These differences create a lot of disagreement and discussion, which I find interesting. It's fun to read others' interpretations of the same content I consumed. I generally take the codex/lore at face value. Gameplay (and costuming - like the silly breather masks in hostile environments) are done according to rule of cool, cutscenes are made to create pacing and dramatic effect.
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elementzero
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Element Zero on May 16, 2018 18:41:17 GMT
<snip>
This is one of those agree to disagree points as its just never explained anywhere that I'm aware of what FTL ships do if they hit an object, so its my last post on this.
Agreed. I was expecting to arrive here with my next post. Nothing wrong with interpreting space magic differently. It’s fun to discuss, either way. I’m always finding little things that others experienced or interpreted differently. The opening scene with Hyperion exiting FTL and Ryder awakening is a good example. The “recruitment/orientation vids” laid out the plan, to an extent. The Uprising novel may’ve built on that, depending upon how you interpret it. I had assumed that Hyperion dropped out of inter-galactic FTL first, and then personnel started awakening. We don’t watch the minutiae of every nobody awakening in order, but rather jump ahead from the scene outside of Andromeda to the scene within Heleus/Eriksson in which Ryder is awakening. It never would’ve occurred to me to interpret the sequence of events differently. Usually, looking closely is a fun exercise. Sometimes, it just exposes silly writing choices seemingly made in the name of expedience. ME is full of both.
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Post by griffith82 on May 16, 2018 18:58:56 GMT
True Pasquale, lore and cut scenes, game play or even story points don't always match. Heck per the original lore as i remember it a biotic would throw one or two powers and then be too tired to go on. That never played out in game and even less so in ME2 on with the short cooldowns. But I guess where is the real lore is it the codex, the story, game play, books all have slightly different takes on a variety of topics. I think each of us decides for ourselves, no? These differences create a lot of disagreement and discussion, which I find interesting. It's fun to read others' interpretations of the same content I consumed. I generally take the codex/lore at face value. Gameplay (and costuming - like the silly breather masks in hostile environments) are done according to rule of cool, cutscenes are made to create pacing and dramatic effect. Yeah kinda like certain armor in some games. [\spoiler]
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