The Mage Underground - "I have made this place a sanctum of healing and salvation! Why do you threat

Yes, of course, there's no compromise.

But rules are needed. The freedom's not anarchy, and the anarchy's not freedom.

They need education, mandatory. This is important, and this is a rule. The life isn't fair, they have more power than the others, so, they must learn to live with that. This isn't that big restriction.

What is someone supports mage freedom but doesn't support the actions on individuals where the terms listed above are not derogatory but factual in nature? 

Uh, because a there are people who do not view those people as such. I am one of those people and I can name several others -which I will not. So, coming here and using those terms would indeed be derogatory.  Just because something may or may not be fact does not mean it should or should not be be respected.

You can have a conversation about supporting mage freedom but not accepting the actions of certain people that is fine - hell my main Inquisitor is like that.

But if you need to use such titles/terms in-order for you to make your disdain known, perhaps you put too much stock in such things.

You can use other titles for those people - such as their name. That could be a good start.

I was merely asking for curiosity’s sake as well as getting a better understanding of the kind of discussions that would be able or allowed to occur in this thread. Thank you for answering that.

Understood. And you are welcome. Oh! And please do not think I was being snarky or whatever. That was not my intention.


Oh yes. The Circle is a good place for Mages to train and now, well in my play-through its called: The College of Enchanters.

Look, what happened to Meredith's sister who did not get training. True, that could happened to all mages, but it makes you wonder if she had received training would she still have gone crazy?!? But I guess going crazy runs in the family.

And thank you for that quote. I don't hear the Bethany side, cause she is always dead in my game.

But I do agree and believe that if mages were treated with fairness and freedom demons and/or blood magic would not be as big of an issue as it is now.

Here's my Vashoth Mage and his choices and the world background (Warden and Hawke)

Issaar Adaar

Another world:

1. I admit, I just fucking hate the Wicked Hallashit quest, and I'm very impatient. My choice would be the Public Truce, but never succeeded.
2. Mr Drunk G?
3. Inspired (soften)
4. Spared. They're just fools.

I suppose he exiled him, but I'm not sure... It was not today, and sometimes I spare him, sometimes execute... Willard (on another screenshot, still in progress) let Celene execute him for example. (I don't really care about the fate of Orlais...)

I forgot to say, I like Anders.  I do not like what he did but I find him to be a tragic figure.  I think blowing up the Chantry was a mistake for both mages and Templars.  Now the Templars will hunt them down with no mercy, and the mages who are active in the war will turn to blood magic.  I don't know if this is true in Inquisition since I haven't made it that far, but I do remember the war raging on in the Hinterlands, and after I defeated both sides the war calmed down it seems.

I know. There have just been threads like this where despite the character or topic being purposefully written to be controversial by the writers the people who made the thread only want people to talk about one side. For example characters where despite being a discussion thread can only be praised or condemned. So that's why I was asking since I was confused if this was such a thread or if it allowed disagreements as long as it is civil. 

I know there are many people who have sorts of opinions on the destruction of the Chantry. Which I mostly respect. However, I feel as though these opinions are based mostly on what is and not what was.

You can look at an event and make you own opinion on it. But then you have to ask yourself, prior to the event would you have paid heed to the issue?

The answer nine times out of ten would be “No.” And it shows in the game.

To understand the “Why” and “How” of the destruction of the Chantry, you cannot simply wave your finger at the problem, murder knife the person who caused it and claim they were the reason it got so bad. Do a bit of clean-up and everything will go back to normal.

The problem is: it was never normal to begin with.

As anyone here knows the history, Andraste said, “Magic should serve man, never to rule over him.”

I for one strongly believe that Andraste was a mage. Beyond that, I believe The Chantry twisted her words and molded them in a way as an excuse to keep blaming mages who were responsible for her death. When the reality is, it was Andraste’s husband who betrayed and caused her death, not mages.

And in my opinion Andraste’s words where meant to say, “Its fine to be a mage, but when you use your magic to over-power someone or something to get what you want, that is wrong.
Magic should help people, not be used to hurt them.” But who is too say if Andraste even said this and if she even said it exactly as it is preached. “Her” words should not be used as a reason to treat someone poorly simply because they are different from you.

But let us move forward.

After Andraste’s death, we got The Chantry, Templars, Seekers, magic rules and mages locked-up in Circles.

For what?

Well, most people look at it and say, “To protect people.”

Right. More Chantry bullshit fed to the populace to choke on.

The reality is: money.

It’s a simple and easy scam.

Blame mages, lock up mages, preached this to the populace, behind closed doors use mages to make money = PROFIT.

The Chantry:

Controls the lyrium trade.

Forces Tranquility on weak mages. Which in turn Tranquil mages are used to make magical items.

Creates an army of templars, to keep their investments in line.

Has the Seekers to make sure the Templars, Mages and other problems are kept on a tight leash.

The Chantry now has an army, an endless source of income, lyrium and millions of Thedas people completely brainwashed.

Not to mention behind closed doors they are complete hypocrites when it comes to magic.

Templars use magic, Seekers are made into "Abominations."

During this “factory” production of empowering The Chantry, mages complain about their mistreatment.

What happens?

Most of the time their complaints fall on deaf ears. Other times investigations are done, with nothing more then a slap on the wrist. When an issue cannot be covered-up, The Chantry has no choice but to let the Templar go.

But why listen to the complaints of mages mistreatment?!? They are after all the reason the Chantry’s savior is dead and a walking piggy-bank.

This is what Anders was trying to tell people. Mages are not treated like people. They treated as slaves for The Chantry and an instrument to brain-wash people.

Thousands of years and numerous complaints and mini rebellions against the injustice and what has The Chantry done? Nothing.

So, what is there left to do?

Keep complaining?

Keep writing letters? All the while crossing your fingers that something will get done. That perhaps that Templar who raped and beat your friend up will get justice.

Sometimes it takes an act of epic proportions to finally be heard.

Anders destroys the Chantry and what happens?

Everyone -including the Divine now realizes there is nothing that can be said or done to bullshit their way out of it.

The Chantry is in trouble. Their precious thousands of years bullshit money factory is on the brink of collapse.

Divine Justinia, “amazing” solution to appease the Mages, is not freedom, an admission of the mistreatment of mages and long heartfelt apology, it is: asking the Templars to not be so harsh on the mages.

I am sure that will go over well.

And you guessed it.

The Templars gave the Divine the finger and broke from The Chantry. Can you really blame them? They been spending countless generations kicking around mages and now they are being asked to stop. Uh-Huh.

True. Not all Templars are bad people. Nor all those in The Chantry or Seekers.

But there was enough of those awful people to start round 2 of the rebellion.

What Anders did, was a big freaking message to The Chantry and the world that mages have had enough. And they were done being giving the silent treatment.

Did Anders want to do it? Probably not. But a lot of people do things to start a rebellion they do not wish to do but do so to be heard.

The Circle system started failing as soon as it was implemented. As time went on, the cracks became bigger and eventually it collapsed. Trying to push blame on one person -Anders- for the system collapse is unwarranted.

The truth is: The Chantry cause its own demise and only has its self to blame. Yes, it is a tragedy so many people died/injured during these rebellions. But this could have been avoided had the Chantry just listened in the first place and understood you cannot keep a tiger in a cage forever. It will rebel, it will break free.