LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 19, 2018 18:38:37 GMT
I still think Isabela puts it best in this party banter with Fenris Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free. Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just magess. Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous. Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you. coupled with this statement from Grand Cleric Elthina "I cannot take sides. We are all the Maker's creatures, but magic allows abuses beyond the scope of mortals." There's this conversation with Cullen in Inquisition or...was that Cassandra? I can't recall which of the two where he/she talks about the new direction the Circle and with extension the Templars should take he/she talks about making the Circles something akin to a school where mages can go to learn, and should be allowed to have jobs that mages could perform, such as co-working in a clinic with a healer and a Templar working together Magic is dangerous, yes but so is every fool with a sword A fool with a sword may be even more dangerous, because we've learned (both in-game and in real life) that people always try to either dominate or destroy that which they don't understand So yes, mages deserve freedom, but not with all the freedom that one would have in Tevinter well, with the freedom, just minus the slavery the only way people will understand one another if they allow themselves to listen, and sometimes someone needs to make a stand which is why I have Leliana as my canon Divine, not yet sure how to handle Anders' act...that one's always a difficult one for me  on one hand, what he did needed to happen, perhaps not in such a drastic way by killing innocent people, but it had to happen on the other hand, and this contradicts my first opinion, Anders did indeed kill many innocent people with his act, not just by destroying the Chantry itself but by what it unleashed.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 21:10:48 GMT
I still think Isabela puts it best in this party banter with Fenris Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free. Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just magess. Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous. Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you. coupled with this statement from Grand Cleric Elthina "I cannot take sides. We are all the Maker's creatures, but magic allows abuses beyond the scope of mortals." There's this conversation with Cullen in Inquisition or...was that Cassandra? I can't recall which of the two where he/she talks about the new direction the Circle and with extension the Templars should take he/she talks about making the Circles something akin to a school where mages can go to learn, and should be allowed to have jobs that mages could perform, such as co-working in a clinic with a healer and a Templar working together Magic is dangerous, yes but so is every fool with a sword A fool with a sword may be even more dangerous, because we've learned (both in-game and in real life) that people always try to either dominate or destroy that which they don't understand So yes, mages deserve freedom, but not with all the freedom that one would have in Tevinter well, with the freedom, just minus the slavery the only way people will understand one another if they allow themselves to listen, and sometimes someone needs to make a stand which is why I have Leliana as my canon Divine, not yet sure how to handle Anders' act...that one's always a difficult one for me  on one hand, what he did needed to happen, perhaps not in such a drastic way by killing innocent people, but it had to happen on the other hand, and this contradicts my first opinion, Anders did indeed kill many innocent people with his act, not just by destroying the Chantry itself but by what it unleashed. Cullen was who said that. Still thinks, the mages need a Templar for constantly watching... eh... What Anders did, did as an oppressed person, mage or not. And what happened later, the rebellion, justified him. But the war would be avoidable – if the Seekers/Templars just let them be independent – free. But they prevented the negotiation. The Seekers and the Templars started the war. For their wounded pride. Tevinter's problem not the free mages, not even the Magocracy. It can be just like the nobility in Orlais. Tevinter's problem is the slavery and the acceptance of the human sacrifice. The truth is: not every mage is free in Tevinter. Many of them slaves or workers, as Calepernia and Varania.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 21:43:53 GMT
What Anders did, did as an oppressed person, mage or not. And what happened later, the rebellion, justified him. No. No, it did not.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 21:55:39 GMT
What Anders did, did as an oppressed person, mage or not. And what happened later, the rebellion, justified him. No. No, it did not. Yes, it did. Do you want to continue?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 21:58:07 GMT
Yes, it did. Do you want to continue? Events in the future do not justify events in the past since the people in the past do not know what will happen in the future. Say somebody murdered a kid. If that kid wasn't murdered they would grow up to be a dictator. That doesn't justify killing that kid because the person who killed them didn't know that. In a legal case, under any legal system, Anders would have no justification for his actions. Heck the Mage Rebellion may not have even occurred without his action, so that further destroys his justification.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 22:01:35 GMT
Yes, it did. Do you want to continue? Events in the future do not justify events in the past since the people in the past do not know what will happen in the future. Say somebody murdered a kid. If that kid wasn't murdered they would grow up to be a dictator. That doesn't justify killing that kid because the person who killed them didn't know that. In a legal case, under any legal system, Anders would have no justification for his actions. Not only the future justified him. The past and the present too. Plus: he expected it will happen a revolution, so yes the future as well.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 22:05:12 GMT
Events in the future do not justify events in the past since the people in the past do not know what will happen in the future. Say somebody murdered a kid. If that kid wasn't murdered they would grow up to be a dictator. That doesn't justify killing that kid because the person who killed them didn't know that. In a legal case, under any legal system, Anders would have no justification for his actions. Not only the future justified him. The past and the present too. Plus: he expected it will happen a revolution, so yes the future as well. Still no. None of the events that justify murder were occurring when Anders committed it. Hoping to start a revolution does not justify him either. It just makes him guilty of even more crimes.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 22:13:24 GMT
Not only the future justified him. The past and the present too. Plus: he expected it will happen a revolution, so yes the future as well. Still no. None of the events that justify murder were occurring when Anders committed it. Hoping to start a revolution does not justify him either. It just makes him guilty of even more crimes. I know, you think, every revolution is evil. So hoping to start a revolution is evil. To pray to the Maker for freedom is the only acceptable act. I got it. The Maker answered ...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 19, 2018 23:41:37 GMT
Still no. None of the events that justify murder were occurring when Anders committed it. Hoping to start a revolution does not justify him either. It just makes him guilty of even more crimes. I know, you think, every revolution is evil. So hoping to start a revolution is evil. To pray to the Maker for freedom is the only acceptable act. I got it. The Maker answered ... A revolution in and of itself is neither good nor evil. It is the actions committed during a revolution that can be good or evil. Wanting mage freedom and equality: not evil. Blowing up a building and killing hundreds of innocent people in order to cause the death of countless more to spark a war: evil.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 19, 2018 23:50:23 GMT
I know, you think, every revolution is evil. So hoping to start a revolution is evil. To pray to the Maker for freedom is the only acceptable act. I got it. The Maker answered ... A revolution in and of itself is neither good nor evil. It is the actions committed during a revolution that can be good or evil. Wanting mage freedom and equality: not evil. Blowing up a building and killing hundreds of innocent people in order to cause the death of countless more to spark a war: evil. I said: just pray for it, perhaps, the freedom will come. If not, the Maker didn't want. Or perhaps didn't hear. So, pray for it louder! Or the Maker thinks, you're unworthy. Isn't?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 20, 2018 13:57:28 GMT
I actually think blood magic should be legal. If the blood is obtained from yourself or another person, then it's no different from regular magic in a moral sense.
If you harm or kill another person to get it, then that's assault/murder anyway, which should already be illegal for everybody.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 20, 2018 14:00:30 GMT
I actually think blood magic should be legal. If the blood is obtained from yourself or another person, then it's no different from regular magic in a moral sense. If you harm or kill another person to get it, then that's assault/murder anyway, which should already be illegal for everybody. It's already legal. The Chantry (the Templars) uses it legally.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 20, 2018 14:01:50 GMT
I know, you think, every revolution is evil. So hoping to start a revolution is evil. To pray to the Maker for freedom is the only acceptable act. I got it. The Maker answered ... A revolution in and of itself is neither good nor evil. It is the actions committed during a revolution that can be good or evil. Wanting mage freedom and equality: not evil. Blowing up a building and killing hundreds of innocent people in order to cause the death of countless more to spark a war: evil. The Chantry is itself guilty for the murder of many more innocents as a direct result of the Circle system. If both sides were prepared to call things even, the Chantry would still be getting the far better end of that deal.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 20, 2018 17:18:23 GMT
Cassandra at first blames the Champion (Hawke) for the mage rebellion, that is until she interrogates Varric at the end of DA2 she states "Then Meredith provoked the Circle, she was to blame" Varric replies with "or that damned idol was, or Anders...take your pick" Cassandra: even so, had the champion hadn't been there... Varric: it might never even gone that far
so yeah, Anders is partially to blame for the mage rebellion but not entirely, tensions were already reaching a breaking point by the time that happened The White Spire for example, mostly due to the research by Pharamond into a way to reverse/alter the Rite of Tranquility Fiona was also a very vocal point of pushing for independence there were many factors that decided that the mage rebellion would happen, Anders' actions were just a part of the puzzle
however, I still think killing Anders might be the right choice, as much as I like the fellow, I can't help but wonder...did he ever tell the truth, to anyone? He outright blackmails Hawke (if they ask what he's planning)in enlisting their help to get the explosives inside the Chantry (I still wish there was a way you could say you didn't know what he was planning to Sebastian, as well as apologizing to Anders before killing him if he was your friend) When the Warden meets him at Vigil's keep, there are bodies of Templars around him, Anders claims the darkspawn killed them, since he's fighting the darkspawn when we meet him that's a safe bet. However the Templar who wishes to apprehend him states Anders is a murderer so either Anders killed those Templars...or has killed someone before that event
Justice/Vengeance amplifies Anders desire for freedom and what he believes to be justice toward the Chantry and the Templars he's seen abuse in his time in the Circle, and heard it from fellow mages. He hates the Circle, but killing innocent people is still wrong
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Post by Catilina on Jul 20, 2018 18:16:34 GMT
Cassandra at first blames the Champion (Hawke) for the mage rebellion, that is until she interrogates Varric at the end of DA2 she states "Then Meredith provoked the Circle, she was to blame" Varric replies with "or that damned idol was, or Anders...take your pick" Cassandra: even so, had the champion hadn't been there... Varric: it might never even gone that far
so yeah, Anders is partially to blame for the mage rebellion but not entirely, tensions were already reaching a breaking point by the time that happened The White Spire for example, mostly due to the research by Pharamond into a way to reverse/alter the Rite of Tranquility Fiona was also a very vocal point of pushing for independence there were many factors that decided that the mage rebellion would happen, Anders' actions were just a part of the puzzle
however, I still think killing Anders might be the right choice, as much as I like the fellow, I can't help but wonder...did he ever tell the truth, to anyone? He outright blackmails Hawke (if they ask what he's planning)in enlisting their help to get the explosives inside the Chantry (I still wish there was a way you could say you didn't know what he was planning to Sebastian, as well as apologizing to Anders before killing him if he was your friend) When the Warden meets him at Vigil's keep, there are bodies of Templars around him, Anders claims the darkspawn killed them, since he's fighting the darkspawn when we meet him that's a safe bet. However the Templar who wishes to apprehend him states Anders is a murderer so either Anders killed those Templars...or has killed someone before that event
Justice/Vengeance amplifies Anders desire for freedom and what he believes to be justice toward the Chantry and the Templars he's seen abuse in his time in the Circle, and heard it from fellow mages. He hates the Circle, but killing innocent people is still wrong I love, that he was who ignited the spark and Hawke was the part of this. (In the Inquisition Hawke can say, that after Kirkwall they continued their fight for freedom: when the Circles started to rebel, they helped them a lot to do the final step.) But he's a very bad liar in DA2 – just see the signs: his face, his gestures, and the fact, he tries to avoid Hawke's gaze. If Hawke questioned him, seems as if he relieved: immediately tells, he lied, and says, It's "easy to support freedom, until no one to died to achieve it". So: true, he still vague, but it's very sure, he doesn't go to feed the orphan kittens in the Chantry's basement. The explosion is a surprise. But it's not, this will be bloody. At this moment Hawke can say: no. Blackmail? This is just a desperate and even lame attempt to convince Hawke, nothing more. He doesn't have anything against Hawke to blackmail. Justice strengthened him. Not in his conviction, but about he's able to work for it, and it's possible. This was his problem in the Awakening: this is difficult. And he lied about the Templars? I don't think so. He was too sad, hopeless and bitter when the Templar accused him. Perhaps, he just didn't rush with killing the Darkspawn... or didn't watch with the territorial effect, so, it happened, they died. But If he killed them? And? It was self-defence. The self-defence is righteous. Not murder.
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boxofscreaming
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Post by boxofscreaming on Jul 20, 2018 22:32:55 GMT
I would have no strings but what the mages choose themselves. No compromises with society - it's not about the greater good, but about individual freedom.
The flipside is that what Anders did was still a bad thing, because the mages never wanted it or asked for it and he sacrificed their lives to his grandiose vision of how things should be. Dragon Age 2 was about Kirkwall and maybe Anders helped improve things for the majority of mages in the long run, but he threw Kirkwall's mages under a bus (then set it on fire).
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Post by Catilina on Jul 20, 2018 22:36:07 GMT
I would have no strings but what the mages choose themselves. No compromises with society - it's not about the greater good, but about individual freedom. The flipside is that what Anders did was still a bad thing, because the mages never wanted it or asked for it and he sacrificed their lives to his grandiose vision of how things should be. Dragon Age 2 was about Kirkwall and maybe Anders helped improve things for the majority of mages in the long run, but he threw Kirkwall's mages under a bus (then set it on fire). They were already under the bus.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 22, 2018 18:59:30 GMT
Cassandra at first blames the Champion (Hawke) for the mage rebellion, that is until she interrogates Varric at the end of DA2 she states "Then Meredith provoked the Circle, she was to blame" Varric replies with "or that damned idol was, or Anders...take your pick" Cassandra: even so, had the champion hadn't been there... Varric: it might never even gone that far so yeah, Anders is partially to blame for the mage rebellion but not entirely, tensions were already reaching a breaking point by the time that happened The White Spire for example, mostly due to the research by Pharamond into a way to reverse/alter the Rite of Tranquility Fiona was also a very vocal point of pushing for independence there were many factors that decided that the mage rebellion would happen, Anders' actions were just a part of the puzzle however, I still think killing Anders might be the right choice, as much as I like the fellow, I can't help but wonder...did he ever tell the truth, to anyone? He outright blackmails Hawke (if they ask what he's planning)in enlisting their help to get the explosives inside the Chantry (I still wish there was a way you could say you didn't know what he was planning to Sebastian, as well as apologizing to Anders before killing him if he was your friend) When the Warden meets him at Vigil's keep, there are bodies of Templars around him, Anders claims the darkspawn killed them, since he's fighting the darkspawn when we meet him that's a safe bet. However the Templar who wishes to apprehend him states Anders is a murderer so either Anders killed those Templars...or has killed someone before that event Justice/Vengeance amplifies Anders desire for freedom and what he believes to be justice toward the Chantry and the Templars he's seen abuse in his time in the Circle, and heard it from fellow mages. He hates the Circle, but killing innocent people is still wrong Anders lied to Hawke but don't think he blackmailed Hawke. Me too, would have liked at least to look Anders in the face when killing him rather than the knife in the back especially a romanced Anders.
I look at it in rebellions and wars innocents always die, it can't be helped. Anders seemed to blow the Chantry at night and a lot of the debris went upwards into the funnel, magic funnel? Yes and debris went onto buildings and innocents were I'm sure killed in the explosion. Still it had to happen that way, as to Anders there was no other way to set the mages on the course of freedom.
Not sure Anders can be blamed for other people taking the opportunity to fight , Templars and mages both killed each other, its on them.
actually, if you keep pressing Anders about his plan, he keeps dodging Hawke's questions when you finally do accept helping him Hawke says something along the lines of "alright I'll help you, but I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it" whether or not he actually blackmails Hawke in that instance, that's up for debate
and I'm not saying Anders is to blame for the entire rebellion, as I said there were already many other factors at play that were pointing in that direction Anders blowing up the Chantry just became another drop of water that flooded the bucket (is that a right proverb? I'm Dutch so I don't know many correct English proverbs  ) as I'm currently in Act 3, and I keep getting closer to deciding Anders' fate...I'm back to my initial dilemma, do I kill Anders...or not? I don't care much about Sebastian, but I don't want his army to march on Kirkwall, plus even Varric is angry at Anders during Inquisition...or is he disappointed with him?
hnn..choices choices...to be honest this is the only choice in DA2 that always puts me through hell and back
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 22, 2018 19:22:45 GMT
actually, if you keep pressing Anders about his plan, he keeps dodging Hawke's questions when you finally do accept helping him Hawke says something along the lines of "alright I'll help you, but I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it" whether or not he actually blackmails Hawke in that instance, that's up for debate
and I'm not saying Anders is to blame for the entire rebellion, as I said there were already many other factors at play that were pointing in that direction Anders blowing up the Chantry just became another drop of water that flooded the bucket (is that a right proverb? I'm Dutch so I don't know many correct English proverbs  ) as I'm currently in Act 3, and I keep getting closer to deciding Anders' fate...I'm back to my initial dilemma, do I kill Anders...or not? I don't care much about Sebastian, but I don't want his army to march on Kirkwall, plus even Varric is angry at Anders during Inquisition...or is he disappointed with him?
hnn..choices choices...to be honest this is the only choice in DA2 that always puts me through hell and back heh, same here. I sat there staring at the screen trying to figure out what to do with Anders. Mostly I keep him with me but then I mostly side with the mages. I killed him once, it was horrible  . Poor Anders - can't do it again.
I don't get that part then, what did Anders blackmail Hawke with?
I've killed Anders a few times now, but that look on his face when he gets stabbed...  I sincerely always regret it right after that Doesn't help that Sebastian 'Muuurdurr' Vael is pressing you to kill Andy either  (yeah, I call him Andy...I headcanon that my Hawke does that as well  ) last game I played a Spirit Healer so I didn't need him for the final fights, but my current one is a Rogue...so...decisions decisons
good question...I'm about to replay that mission, so I'll have answers in a bit I don't think there's anything specific that Anders uses as blackmail, though Hawke's remark does make it out to be like he did
though I do have Bethany in the Circle in this playthrough, maybe he'll make a remark in that regard? Meredith did sure love playing that card when I initially refused to help her with those apostates
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Post by Catilina on Jul 22, 2018 19:58:22 GMT
Anders lied to Hawke but don't think he blackmailed Hawke. Me too, would have liked at least to look Anders in the face when killing him rather than the knife in the back especially a romanced Anders.
I look at it in rebellions and wars innocents always die, it can't be helped. Anders seemed to blow the Chantry at night and a lot of the debris went upwards into the funnel, magic funnel? Yes and debris went onto buildings and innocents were I'm sure killed in the explosion. Still it had to happen that way, as to Anders there was no other way to set the mages on the course of freedom.
Not sure Anders can be blamed for other people taking the opportunity to fight , Templars and mages both killed each other, its on them.
actually, if you keep pressing Anders about his plan, he keeps dodging Hawke's questions when you finally do accept helping him Hawke says something along the lines of "alright I'll help you, but I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it" whether or not he actually blackmails Hawke in that instance, that's up for debate
and I'm not saying Anders is to blame for the entire rebellion, as I said there were already many other factors at play that were pointing in that direction Anders blowing up the Chantry just became another drop of water that flooded the bucket (is that a right proverb? I'm Dutch so I don't know many correct English proverbs  ) as I'm currently in Act 3, and I keep getting closer to deciding Anders' fate...I'm back to my initial dilemma, do I kill Anders...or not? I don't care much about Sebastian, but I don't want his army to march on Kirkwall, plus even Varric is angry at Anders during Inquisition...or is he disappointed with him?
hnn..choices choices...to be honest this is the only choice in DA2 that always puts me through hell and back  If it can help in the decision: what Sebastian did was blackmail, whatever's Hawke's reason to spare Anders' life (don't forget: that life will never same as were before...). And not like "if you would care about me, you would help me", but "if you don't be an executioner, I will destroy that city..." (not you, not your friend/love, but this city)... But Hawke's not responsible for Sebastian's sin..n (And send Cullen, he –and the army with Aveline's guards– will convince Sebastian to turn back.)
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 22, 2018 20:08:30 GMT
actually, if you keep pressing Anders about his plan, he keeps dodging Hawke's questions when you finally do accept helping him Hawke says something along the lines of "alright I'll help you, but I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it" whether or not he actually blackmails Hawke in that instance, that's up for debate
and I'm not saying Anders is to blame for the entire rebellion, as I said there were already many other factors at play that were pointing in that direction Anders blowing up the Chantry just became another drop of water that flooded the bucket (is that a right proverb? I'm Dutch so I don't know many correct English proverbs  ) as I'm currently in Act 3, and I keep getting closer to deciding Anders' fate...I'm back to my initial dilemma, do I kill Anders...or not? I don't care much about Sebastian, but I don't want his army to march on Kirkwall, plus even Varric is angry at Anders during Inquisition...or is he disappointed with him?
hnn..choices choices...to be honest this is the only choice in DA2 that always puts me through hell and back  If it can help in the decision: what Sebastian did was blackmail, whatever's Hawke's reason to spare Anders' life (don't forget: that life will never same as were before...). And not like "if you would care about me, you would help me", but "if you don't be an executioner, I will destroy that city..." (not you, not your friend/love, but this city)... But Hawke's not responsible for Sebastian's sin..n (And send Cullen, he –and the army with Aveline's guards– will convince Sebastian to turn back.) Hm...you know, I never really thought of it that way, but when you put it like that...Sebastian does indeed blackmail Hawke he's all 'I'll stay with you to protect you, Elthina and the city' but as soon as she dies and the Chantry is destroyed he makes a 180 and goes all 'I'll destroy this city to get to Anders' I mean, I understand his anger and sadness, his home and a person he cared about were just recently killed and destroyed
but he keeps forgetting Elthina's words 'death is never justice' but what's the first thing he does when he hears about the murder of his family? Hire mercenaries (Hawke and co) to kill the people that were responsible...he really is a weather vane
I love sending Aveline with Cullen's army, it's so funny xD I can just picture Aveline standing there all cracking knuckles throwing glares at Sebastian from afar and him being all pouty when they won't budge
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Post by Catilina on Jul 22, 2018 20:08:52 GMT
heh, same here. I sat there staring at the screen trying to figure out what to do with Anders. Mostly I keep him with me but then I mostly side with the mages. I killed him once, it was horrible  . Poor Anders - can't do it again.
I don't get that part then, what did Anders blackmail Hawke with?
I've killed Anders a few times now, but that look on his face when he gets stabbed...  I sincerely always regret it right after that Doesn't help that Sebastian 'Muuurdurr' Vael is pressing you to kill Andy either  (yeah, I call him Andy...I headcanon that my Hawke does that as well  ) last game I played a Spirit Healer so I didn't need him for the final fights, but my current one is a Rogue...so...decisions decisons
good question...I'm about to replay that mission, so I'll have answers in a bit I don't think there's anything specific that Anders uses as blackmail, though Hawke's remark does make it out to be like he did
though I do have Bethany in the Circle in this playthrough, maybe he'll make a remark in that regard? Meredith did sure love playing that card when I initially refused to help her with those apostates  Meredith's very good at blackmail, an I found her manipulative, in her own way. And so clever parry, when she says: she mentioned Bethany because she's a good mage... congratulation, Knight Commander (my Hawke would kill her right there...) Like a Godfather...
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 22, 2018 20:21:43 GMT
I don't get that part then, what did Anders blackmail Hawke with? He emotionally blackmailed Hawke. He says things like if Hawke doesn't help then they never really loved him thus if Hawke does love Anders they are pressured to help that way similar to someone who is blackmailed physically. Plus you could also say the relationship is held as blackmail since Anders is threatening to dump Hawke if they don't help. You see this a bunch with family or significant others where one member has done something bad so uses that kind of blackmail to get the other to do things like help or cover for them.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 22, 2018 20:25:06 GMT
If it can help in the decision: what Sebastian did was blackmail, whatever's Hawke's reason to spare Anders' life (don't forget: that life will never same as were before...). And not like "if you would care about me, you would help me", but "if you don't be an executioner, I will destroy that city..." (not you, not your friend/love, but this city)... But Hawke's not responsible for Sebastian's sin..n (And send Cullen, he –and the army with Aveline's guards– will convince Sebastian to turn back.) Hm...you know, I never really thought of it that way, but when you put it like that...Sebastian does indeed blackmail Hawke he's all 'I'll stay with you to protect you, Elthina and the city' but as soon as she dies and the Chantry is destroyed he makes a 180 and goes all 'I'll destroy this city to get to Anders' I mean, I understand his anger and sadness, his home and a person he cared about were just recently killed and destroyed
but he keeps forgetting Elthina's words 'death is never justice' but what's the first thing he does when he hears about the murder of his family? Hire mercenaries (Hawke and co) to kill the people that were responsible...he really is a weather vane I love sending Aveline with Cullen's army, it's so funny xD I can just picture Aveline standing there all cracking knuckles throwing glares at Sebastian from afar and him being all pouty when they won't budge I also understand Sebastian's first anger – of course, but after three years, in the middle of a world chaos? (I love, that at this moment Sebastian's the real embodied vengeance... "I'll teach to your precious Anders, what the true justice is..." and after three years, he shows, what the true vengeance is... In fact, I like Sebastian's character, he's more interesting than a simple choir boy) About the proverbs: we say: "the last drop in the glass" and the last straw... (I'm from Hungary)
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LadyofNemesis
N5
   
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,753 Likes: 11,577
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LadyofNemesis
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ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 22, 2018 20:34:37 GMT
Hm...you know, I never really thought of it that way, but when you put it like that...Sebastian does indeed blackmail Hawke he's all 'I'll stay with you to protect you, Elthina and the city' but as soon as she dies and the Chantry is destroyed he makes a 180 and goes all 'I'll destroy this city to get to Anders' I mean, I understand his anger and sadness, his home and a person he cared about were just recently killed and destroyed
but he keeps forgetting Elthina's words 'death is never justice' but what's the first thing he does when he hears about the murder of his family? Hire mercenaries (Hawke and co) to kill the people that were responsible...he really is a weather vane
I love sending Aveline with Cullen's army, it's so funny xD I can just picture Aveline standing there all cracking knuckles throwing glares at Sebastian from afar and him being all pouty when they won't budge I also understand Sebastian's first anger – of course, but after three years, in the middle of a world chaos? (I love, that at this moment Sebastian's the real embodied vengeance... "I'll teach to your precious Anders, what the true justice is..." and after three years, he shows, what the true vengeance is... In fact, I like Sebastian's character, he's more interesting than a simple choir boy) About the proverbs: we say: "the last drop in the glass" and the last straw... (I'm from Hungary) yeah, we have a similar proverb with the last straw, but also with a bucket or a fuse...proverbs can be such fun ^^
I also like Sebastian, he's a great character (plus, I love the accent), but...I'm not a very religious person so characters like him can be a bit...well a bit much sometimes in my opinion I just hate that I have to chose between him and Anders Anders sounds so lost at that part...even more so on Rivalry path (which I can never bring myself to do, I did it once...but I just like being friendly  ) only time I got angry at Anders was during his Dissent quest...plus its fun to hear Fenris talking to him during that portion those two would get along great if only they'd admit they're so much alike
I still can't forgive Anders for calling Fenris a wild dog though...just no, he's a person...Eirian and Arenor(my Wardens, the latter whom is an elf) would smack him for being so rude
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