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Post by Iddy on May 17, 2018 11:15:14 GMT
Save the chargers. The mercs signed on with the Inquisition and have proved loyal and good soldiers. Not going to abandon them for a badly planned attack. It may be Qun way to throw their fighters away but I can't do it. Nor am I willing to help the Qun get the upper hand. Aren't they supposed to be willing to die for the mission? I'm sure Cullen and Leliana wouldn't hesitate to lie down their lives if it served a good purpose. And really, I don't think you join a combat oriented organization like this without being aware of the possibility.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 17, 2018 12:32:43 GMT
Then when he proposes an alliance with the Qun, again if I was not interested, because I thought the perceived benefits were not good enough to warrant it, then I would have refused at that point, not gone ahead with the operation and then fail to deliver on the entire plan. Sadly, the quest structure of these games makes this RP choice impossible. This is Iron Bull's loyalty mission and completes his character story arc, as do the same quests for all followers. You don't do it, his character is in limbo. Unfortunately, you can't ultimately refuse to do the mission; your best alternative is to say you'll consider it and then just never go to the Storm Coast again (because the cutscene will automatically trigger). It's a shame we can't say, "No. I want nothing to do with the Qun," and end it right there. At that point, Bull can then make the choice as to whether he still wants to provide the Inquisition with information. If you value what he brings with the Chargers and always thought that, first and foremost, you were hiring a mercenary company, then nothing is lost. I don't think you need to stay away from that region entirely. I think you just need to make sure you don't bring Bull there again until you've beaten Cory. I think I've been back to the Storm Coast without Bull in the playthrough I didn't do this quest in, and it didn't force me to do this. (Of course I wasn't using him much in that playthrough anyway. If he's got all your good stuff and he's got abilities you're dependent on this might be a problem anyway.)
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Post by ellehaym on May 17, 2018 15:01:01 GMT
On my 1st playthrough I saved the Chargers. I always figured that the alliance with them was temporary since their goal was defeat Corypheus and seal the rifts and once that's done they'll just end it. I never expected the events on Trespasser, but I guess I was right in not allying with them.
As others have said, the red lyrium would have found its way to Tevinter and other nations sooner or later. Simply defeating the red Templars and Corypheus would not make it disappear, especially since you really only need a small piece and we know the Venatori know how to cultivate it on people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 17, 2018 19:01:09 GMT
but I like Iron Bull and the Chargers a nice DLC with them would be fun. I doubt it will ever happen, since they can be dead. At most they will be a minor cameo role who can be replaced by other characters if they are dead. But I may be biased since I don't like The Iron Bull or the Bull's Chargers and hope they don't show up again. Bad enough they showed up in the Magekiller comic so had to spend a whole chapter with them, especially since it was at a point where they were already dead in my games.
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January 2017
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on May 18, 2018 0:49:41 GMT
Aren't they supposed to be willing to die for the mission? I'm sure Cullen and Leliana wouldn't hesitate to lie down their lives if it served a good purpose. And really, I don't think you join a combat oriented organization like this without being aware of the possibility. So should the Antaam.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2018 3:37:14 GMT
I doubt it will ever happen, since they can be dead. At most they will be a minor cameo role who can be replaced by other characters if they are dead. But I may be biased since I don't like The Iron Bull or the Bull's Chargers and hope they don't show up again. Bad enough they showed up in the Magekiller comic so had to spend a whole chapter with them, especially since it was at a point where they were already dead in my games. Oh I know, its the same as wanting a Fenris DLC after all this time - well maybe not as much as that Fenris DLC Sorry Hanako, I haven't read the comic or WOT books or seen the Dawn of the Seeker yet. Only the Gaider and Weekes books plus the games. His head is too small for his body, I saw a modded IB with a lovely red face and tattoos, kind of covered the small head. He's nice to Sera and seems to get a long with the team. Sure he is a spy but at least the Inquisitor knows that upfront. Can I ask what is it about Iron Bull and the Chargers you don't like? Ah, okay. Well yeah in Chapter 4 of Magekiller Tessa and Marius do a mission in the Hissing Wastes with Dorian and the Bull's Chargers. Well, with the Chargers I don't dislike them I just don't like them. I have no emotional connection to them whatsoever than any random nameless Inquisition soldier. I don't really get the whole being close to them thing that many fans say when we literally only see them for one scene before the mission. As for The Iron Bull, there are many things I don't like about his character and personality. Having to kill him in Trespasser if you side with the Qun wasn't a punishment for me but closer to a reward(plus you grant him what he has always wanted: a beautiful death against a worthy opponent).
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Post by opuspace on May 18, 2018 3:43:09 GMT
Oh I know, its the same as wanting a Fenris DLC after all this time - well maybe not as much as that Fenris DLC Sorry Hanako, I haven't read the comic or WOT books or seen the Dawn of the Seeker yet. Only the Gaider and Weekes books plus the games. His head is too small for his body, I saw a modded IB with a lovely red face and tattoos, kind of covered the small head. He's nice to Sera and seems to get a long with the team. Sure he is a spy but at least the Inquisitor knows that upfront. Can I ask what is it about Iron Bull and the Chargers you don't like? Ah, okay. Well yeah in Chapter 4 of Magekiller Tessa and Marius do a mission in the Hissing Wastes with Dorian and the Bull's Chargers. Well, with the Chargers I don't dislike them I just don't like them. I have no emotional connection to them whatsoever than any random nameless Inquisition soldier. I don't really get the whole being close to them thing that many fans say when we literally only see them for one scene before the mission. As for The Iron Bull, there are many things I don't like about his character and personality. Having to kill him in Trespasser if you side with the Qun wasn't a punishment for me but closer to a reward(plus you grant him what he has always wanted: a beautiful death against a worthy opponent). I...seriously doubt Bull ever had a death wish. His biggest concern was going mad.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2018 4:13:50 GMT
Ah, okay. Well yeah in Chapter 4 of Magekiller Tessa and Marius do a mission in the Hissing Wastes with Dorian and the Bull's Chargers. Well, with the Chargers I don't dislike them I just don't like them. I have no emotional connection to them whatsoever than any random nameless Inquisition soldier. I don't really get the whole being close to them thing that many fans say when we literally only see them for one scene before the mission. As for The Iron Bull, there are many things I don't like about his character and personality. Having to kill him in Trespasser if you side with the Qun wasn't a punishment for me but closer to a reward(plus you grant him what he has always wanted: a beautiful death against a worthy opponent). I...seriously doubt Bull ever had a death wish. His biggest concern was going mad. The Iron Bull: I hunted down a lot of rebels. Lost a lot of friends to the Vints, or the Fog Warriors, or the Tal-Vashoth. One day I woke up and couldn't think of a damned reason to keep doing my job. Turned myself into the reeducators. Inquisitor: Not many people would have the courage to do that. The Iron Bull: I thought about letting some rebel kill me, but I couldn't give any of those bastards the satisfaction.
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Post by opuspace on May 18, 2018 4:21:08 GMT
I...seriously doubt Bull ever had a death wish. His biggest concern was going mad. The Iron Bull: I hunted down a lot of rebels. Lost a lot of friends to the Vints, or the Fog Warriors, or the Tal-Vashoth. One day I woke up and couldn't think of a damned reason to keep doing my job. Turned myself into the reeducators. Inquisitor: Not many people would have the courage to do that. The Iron Bull: I thought about letting some rebel kill me, but I couldn't give any of those bastards the satisfaction. Thinking about killing oneself doesn't mean it's a permanent goal. Otherwise counselors and psychologists wouldn't be trying other methods to help patients. He's never mentioned wanting to die again and the endings show him quite happy to be alive anyways with the Chargers as they go free Tevinter slaves.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2018 4:25:22 GMT
The Iron Bull: I hunted down a lot of rebels. Lost a lot of friends to the Vints, or the Fog Warriors, or the Tal-Vashoth. One day I woke up and couldn't think of a damned reason to keep doing my job. Turned myself into the reeducators. Inquisitor: Not many people would have the courage to do that. The Iron Bull: I thought about letting some rebel kill me, but I couldn't give any of those bastards the satisfaction. Thinking about killing oneself doesn't mean it's a permanent goal. Otherwise counselors and psychologists wouldn't be trying other methods to help patients. He's never mentioned wanting to die again and the endings show him quite happy to be alive anyways with the Chargers as they go free Tevinter slaves. I doubt he'd feel differently when it comes to his death even while with the Chargers. Sure he has a reason to live again, but he'd still want when the time comes to die to someone worthy of killing him. But fine, I could have worded my previous post better.
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Post by opuspace on May 18, 2018 4:29:50 GMT
Thinking about killing oneself doesn't mean it's a permanent goal. Otherwise counselors and psychologists wouldn't be trying other methods to help patients. He's never mentioned wanting to die again and the endings show him quite happy to be alive anyways with the Chargers as they go free Tevinter slaves. I doubt he'd feel differently when it comes to his death even while with the Chargers. Sure he has a reason to live again, but he'd still want when the time comes to die to someone worthy of killing him. But fine, I could have worded my previous post better. He's specifically wanted a worthy opponent to kill him? How do you know that's it and not that he wants to continue on doing other things?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 18, 2018 4:37:50 GMT
I doubt he'd feel differently when it comes to his death even while with the Chargers. Sure he has a reason to live again, but he'd still want when the time comes to die to someone worthy of killing him. But fine, I could have worded my previous post better. He's specifically wanted a worthy opponent to kill him? How do you know that's it and not that he wants to continue on doing other things? You are not understanding me. I'm saying that yes he will want to do other things, but when the moment of his eventually comes he would want to die to someone worthy of killing him rather than someone or something that is not. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
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Post by opuspace on May 18, 2018 4:46:34 GMT
He's specifically wanted a worthy opponent to kill him? How do you know that's it and not that he wants to continue on doing other things? You are not understanding me. I'm saying that yes he will want to do other things, but when the moment of his eventually comes he would want to die to someone worthy of killing him rather than someone or something that is not. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. That's a pretty big assumption to make on someone else's behalf on how they want to die. What if he'd rather die peacefully with loved ones surrounding him? It's not like he's planned it all out and told the Inquisitor that he wants them to kill him when his time comes.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 18, 2018 16:30:03 GMT
That's a pretty big assumption to make on someone else's behalf on how they want to die. What if he'd rather die peacefully with loved ones surrounding him? It's not like he's planned it all out and told the Inquisitor that he wants them to kill him when his time comes. I think there is definitely a difference between the Iron Bull who is now Tal'Vashoth and the Iron Bull who is once again a loyal member of the Qun. You could argue the latter was already dead inside after losing the Chargers and the Qun mentality would be that if you die in battle then you would want it to be to a worthy opponent. That was the sentiment he expressed for how he felt on Seheron when he was also a loyal member of the Qun but had suffered a mental breakdown. He wouldn't let the rebels kill him because they weren't worthy of it but he wanted to die. However, if you believe Cole, then when he faced his death by the Inquisitor's hand, he felt nothing - as I say he had already died inside long before.
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wright1978
N4
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,677 Likes: 2,547
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 18, 2018 19:59:52 GMT
Killing Qunari is always right & that's the only reason the chargers live in my playtrhroughs.
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Post by Iddy on May 18, 2018 21:42:44 GMT
Killing Qunari is always right & that's the only reason the chargers live in my playtrhroughs. Bull is Qunari, tho.
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House Targaryen
N5
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,216
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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August 2016
thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by House Targaryen on May 19, 2018 3:49:51 GMT
Saving the Chargers is the only choice. No need to have issues later on in Trespasser. ![:whistle:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KsWEGtwHLHUtTuiWt0OV.png)
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N4
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,677 Likes: 2,547
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wright1978
1,677
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by wright1978 on May 19, 2018 10:39:02 GMT
Killing Qunari is always right & that's the only reason the chargers live in my playtrhroughs. Bull is Qunari, tho. Turning loyal Qunari soldiers into Tal-Vasoth is almost as good as killing them.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 19, 2018 11:08:35 GMT
That's a pretty big assumption to make on someone else's behalf on how they want to die. What if he'd rather die peacefully with loved ones surrounding him? It's not like he's planned it all out and told the Inquisitor that he wants them to kill him when his time comes. I think there is definitely a difference between the Iron Bull who is now Tal'Vashoth and the Iron Bull who is once again a loyal member of the Qun. You could argue the latter was already dead inside after losing the Chargers and the Qun mentality would be that if you die in battle then you would want it to be to a worthy opponent. That was the sentiment he expressed for how he felt on Seheron when he was also a loyal member of the Qun but had suffered a mental breakdown. He wouldn't let the rebels kill him because they weren't worthy of it but he wanted to die. However, if you believe Cole, then when he faced his death by the Inquisitor's hand, he felt nothing - as I say he had already died inside long before. I'd assumed the fact that he "felt nothing" meant that the Qunari had successfully reprogrammed him and he no longer even missed the Chargers. If he was still suicidal, or if as one fan theory claimed he was cooperating with the Qunari because he wanted the opportunity to kill the Inquisitor to avenge them, wouldn't Cole have sensed that he was motivated by pain? That's the thing he's supposed to be the most sensitive to, isn't it?
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on May 19, 2018 15:53:47 GMT
I'd assumed the fact that he "felt nothing" meant that the Qunari had successfully reprogrammed him and he no longer even missed the Chargers I suppose that's what I mean when I say he was dead inside. All the emotion and comradeship he felt with the Chargers had been destroyed first by killing them and then by the re-educators reinforcing his loyalty to the Qun during that 2 year period before the Exalted Council. I'm pretty sure his superiors had not been happy about how much he seemed to get into his role of Tal-Vashoth or the loyalty he seemed to demonstrate to the Bas soldiers he had recruited, so that whole operation was really a set up. The reason we didn't know about the strength of the opposition or the location of their mages was deliberate. So they were able to test both Hissrad and the Inquisitor.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 22:29:02 GMT
Players who sacrifice the Chargers are terrible hoomins.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 19, 2018 23:25:30 GMT
Players who sacrifice the Chargers are terrible hoomins. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 2.799999999999997px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_90971669" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_16216763" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 81px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_42975560" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="2.799999999999997" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 2.8px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 81px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_75515933" scrolling="no"></iframe> Why?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 20, 2018 4:56:48 GMT
Players who sacrifice the Chargers are terrible hoomins. Well, the way I play it is to have at least one World-State for everything. At least one World-State for every specialization, for all three possible Divines, for every choice regarding who to work with to seal the Breach and the terms of the relationship... In short, thank you.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on May 21, 2018 1:29:38 GMT
Well, the way I play it is to have at least one World-State for everything. At least one World-State for every specialization, for all three possible Divines, for every choice regarding who to work with to seal the Breach and the terms of the relationship... In short, thank you. Correction, you mean two Divines.
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious tyrant.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 21, 2018 2:13:15 GMT
Well, the way I play it is to have at least one World-State for everything. At least one World-State for every specialization, for all three possible Divines, for every choice regarding who to work with to seal the Breach and the terms of the relationship... In short, thank you. Correction, you mean two Divines.
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious tyrant. Well, if you are truly against siding with the Qun over the Chargers then she is the Divine for you since she throws the Qun's offer of alliance back in their face unlike the others who play along for the moment. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png)
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