Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 21, 2018 6:11:22 GMT
Well, the way I play it is to have at least one World-State for everything. At least one World-State for every specialization, for all three possible Divines, for every choice regarding who to work with to seal the Breach and the terms of the relationship... In short, thank you. Correction, you mean two Divines.
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious bitch tyrant.
You sir/mam, well all there is to say is: I love you. Now, if tell me you placed the big hat on Lilly's head, I'll love you even more.
Oh and I did a slight edit to your name for her
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 21, 2018 6:16:14 GMT
Well, the way I play it is to have at least one World-State for everything. At least one World-State for every specialization, for all three possible Divines, for every choice regarding who to work with to seal the Breach and the terms of the relationship... In short, thank you. Correction, you mean two Divines.
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious tyrant. See it's funny you should mention that given that I've recently finished my second Leiliana playthrough and am now on my second Vivienne. (I also have two Cassandras, if you're wondering.) Correction, you mean two Divines.
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious tyrant. Well, if you are truly against siding with the Qun over the Chargers then she is the Divine for you since she throws the Qun's offer of alliance back in their face unlike the others who play along for the moment. <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62000000000012px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_35148127" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_49202719" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 264px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_38267717" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="6.5" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 6.5px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: 264px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_66512378" scrolling="no"></iframe> ... Really? I'd have expected that from Cassandra. Leiliana and Vivienne I'd expect to play along and hope to win a game of backstabbing.
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 21, 2018 9:24:07 GMT
Really? I'd have expected that from Cassandra. Leiliana and Vivienne I'd expect to play along and hope to win a game of backstabbing. Oh please. That sounds exactly like something Vivienne would do. Lilly on the other-hand, (if soften) would keep the alliance and try to strength it. Cassandra, would be leery of it, probably not break ties right away, but would if there was a reason. Also, I think you forget. Lilly is a spymaster which gives good reason to use the tools of The Game to her advantage. While she did this for selfish reasons when younger, Lilly has since used it to help other people. Vivienne only plays to benefit her and it doesn't matter who she uses or walks all over to get there - its "Me, Me, Me." True, that sums up most Orlesians, but at least Lilly is far more compassionate and worldly then Vivienne.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
27,756
gervaise21
11,352
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on May 21, 2018 10:03:23 GMT
I'd take the Darkspawn Chronicles over any timeline where Vivienne gets to become a tin-pot religious tyrant. [img class="smile" alt="[_[" src="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/nYkDMDLKoaSWICspZibx.png"] Depending on the choices you make it can be impossible to get anyone other than Vivienne. One run through I got Vivienne as Divine and it was a total shock. I hadn't voted for her but thought perhaps it was because I had forgotten to vote for Cassandra. Went back and did so but it made no difference, I still got Vivienne. I think it is ridiculous to think that they would vote in a mage as Divine, even with her political connections, but apparently the writers didn't. With meta knowledge I was able to work out which decisions had probably swung the decision in her favour, so was able to avoid making them on subsequent runs but if you are trying to use all combinations then ultimately Vivienne will become Divine whether you want her or not.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 21, 2018 10:03:44 GMT
Really? I'd have expected that from Cassandra. Leiliana and Vivienne I'd expect to play along and hope to win a game of backstabbing. Oh please. That sounds exactly like something Vivienne would do. Lilly on the other-hand, (if soften) would keep the alliance and try to strength it. With pretty much any other faction, yeah, probably. But I don't think it's possible to work with the Qun productively as the Qun is now, except under circumstances where you're facing something that hates both sides, and that's so apocalyptically dangerous that you're willing to risk a Qunari backstab later on the grounds that losing to the Qunari is better than losing to whatever else you're facing. And you'd need whatever it was to be a clear and present danger: otherwise you couldn't be sure the Qunari wouldn't backstab you too early. But long-term peace and understanding with the Qun? Unless we get a chance to back the Qunari who admit to outsiders that they see problems with the Qun (Gatt is one, and I understand Tallis is too) that's simply not going to happen. And I highly doubt Leliana would have any more faith in the Qun as it is now than I do no matter what her mental state is in this World-State.Well, unless you believe that Viddasala truly acted without approval (I'm honestly not sure, but I strongly lean towards not) the fact is that Divine Victoria already has a reason to break off relations with the Qun. What happened in Trespasser was an act of war. And even if you believe the Qunari's top brass wasn't behind this attack, something from them is coming. Now, I'm not saying that immediately breaking off relations is the right way to answer that. But I am saying that it's justifiable given what the Qunari just did, and that it's entirely consistent with Cassandra's previous character traits. I'm also saying that it's not really how I'd have expected the two famous players of the Great Game to handle this. I haven't forgotten any of that, although I think you're overstating just how heartless Vivienne is. I have some problems with her, morally speaking, but I don't think she's 100% without empathy. (The "100%" in the previous sentence is an important part of said sentence that should not be overlooked.) But at any rate, the stuff about using and walking all over others, and using the tools of the Game, is why I think it's out of character for Vivienne to openly tell the Qun off: she'd try to use them against themselves, much like I have to imagine Leiliana is doing. (Or at least I hope that's why Leiliana is doing it. And I kinda hope Cassandra's at least trying, and has Leiliana helping her out.) Tl:dr? Sod the Qun and the demands of it.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
27,756
gervaise21
11,352
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on May 21, 2018 10:10:55 GMT
There is the possibility that we could be asked to ally with the Qun against Solas. Remember he is vehemently opposed to the Qun whilst they would hardly appreciate a Veil-less world even if it didn't result in their immediate destruction in a fiery chaos. He is also only slightly less against Tevinter as slave masters of both mortals and spirits, so whilst they might welcome a magical injection of power it would be in their interests to oppose him.
So I think that may well be a choice we are forced to make, seek aid from either Tevinter or the Qun to the exclusion of the other faction and I doubt the writers will make it an easy choice.
|
|
inherit
4406
0
Jun 15, 2024 12:50:16 GMT
602
duskwanderer
Awesome
1,011
Mar 12, 2017 22:45:38 GMT
March 2017
duskwanderer
|
Post by duskwanderer on May 21, 2018 10:14:48 GMT
By doing so, the Inquisitor is deliberately allowing a potential threat to emerge. And why? because his/her personal feelings come first. I'm not sure if saving like five people is worth having red lyrium reach Tevinter. The red lyrium is for the Venatori. And the Qun is a far greater threat.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
27,756
gervaise21
11,352
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on May 21, 2018 10:15:35 GMT
But at any rate, the stuff about using and walking all over others, and using the tools of the Game, is why I think it's out of character for Vivienne to openly tell the Qun off: Where are you given this information? In the epilogue to Trespasser it says the following about the Qunari war with Tevinter if the Inquisition was in alliance with them: "Whispers in Val Royeaux suggested that the Qunari had asked Divine Victoria to assist them. None yet knew her answer." That suggests the response it left open from all three options for Divine.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 21, 2018 10:26:11 GMT
But at any rate, the stuff about using and walking all over others, and using the tools of the Game, is why I think it's out of character for Vivienne to openly tell the Qun off: Where are you given this information? In the epilogue to Trespasser it says the following about the Qunari war with Tevinter if the Inquisition was in alliance with them: "Whispers in Val Royeaux suggested that the Qunari had asked Divine Victoria to assist them. None yet knew her answer." That suggests the response it left open from all three options for Divine. Well, I was working off of Hanako Ikezawa's post a page or so ago. He said that Vivienne flipped the Qunari off when they came asking for a continuation of their alliance (though not in so many words.) I'd said that openly breaking the alliance didn't seem like how Vivienne would handle it... although if the Qunari are actually asking Divine Victoria to jump into a war for them, maybe I was wrong. I don't know that any of the Divines Victoria would willingly side with Qunadar over Minrathous even if the Qunari had a pre-existing alliance to wave in their faces. Though on the other hand if the war with Solas demanded that they pick one or the other, they might leave the decision up to the next PC. It's how they've worked so far.
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 21, 2018 10:32:55 GMT
Tl:dr? Sod the Qun and the demands of it. Hey! That is my quote! Give it back!
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 21, 2018 10:34:49 GMT
Tl:dr? Sod the Qun and the demands of it. Hey! That is my quote! Give it back! Sorry. I'd just thought it fit the point I was trying to make.
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 21, 2018 10:59:10 GMT
Hey! That is my quote! Give it back! Sorry. I'd just thought it fit the point I was trying to make. But...but.....its my words! Get your own point making words!
LOL!
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 21, 2018 11:08:50 GMT
Sorry. I'd just thought it fit the point I was trying to make. But...but.....its my words! Get your own point making words!
LOL!
... The Qun is horny, and it wants to fuck us over? Edit: Does the "over" make it less punchy? Should I lose that?
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 21, 2018 11:13:30 GMT
But...but.....its my words! Get your own point making words!
LOL!
... The Qun is horny, and it wants to fuck us over? LMFAO!
I hope not.
There is not enough lube in all of Thedas to aide me.
Which means, I'll end walking like I got a nug, permanently up my arse and my lips will be knocking back and forth between my knees.
Dear sweet Maker, I am hiding in the Wilds.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on May 22, 2018 2:47:52 GMT
Well, if you are truly against siding with the Qun over the Chargers then she is the Divine for you since she throws the Qun's offer of alliance back in their face unlike the others who play along for the moment. Which is extremely short-sighted of her to have done.
Any sensible ruler would use that overture as a means to gather intelligence, determine whether any information offered is actionable or deliberate misinformation meant to cover the Qunari's true agenda, while returning the favour by spreading their own misinformation among the information they can afford to share with the Qunari.
Leliana demonstrated in Trespasser that she understands at least some Qunlat (something I doubt Vivienne or Cassandra would learn), so you can bet that as Divine, she'd be using the "alliance" as a means to wage an intelligence campaign against the Qunari.
As Bull and Gatt both comment, the Qunari don't bargain ("they don't know how") or do anything unless it benefits them in some way, so (no offense to Cassandra, but) Leliana is the best person to find out what that is.
You sir/mam, well all there is to say is: I love you. Now, if tell me you placed the big hat on Lilly's head, I'll love you even more.
Leliana is always Divine in my playthroughs, as she's the only one really suited for the job.
Unlike Vivienne, she's wouldn't use the job solely to improve their own power and position, and unlike Cassandra, she'd had no issues dealing with the Game, nor become quickly frustrated by all the squabbling clerics and petty bureaucracy.
(Also to answer the first part, I'm a Sir. )
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 24, 2018 19:32:13 GMT
Oh please. That sounds exactly like something Vivienne would do. Lilly on the other-hand, (if soften) would keep the alliance and try to strength it. Cassandra, would be leery of it, probably not break ties right away, but would if there was a reason. Also, I think you forget. Lilly is a spymaster which gives good reason to use the tools of The Game to her advantage. While she did this for selfish reasons when younger, Lilly has since used it to help other people. Vivienne only plays to benefit her and it doesn't matter who she uses or walks all over to get there - its "Me, Me, Me." True, that sums up most Orlesians, but at least Lilly is far more compassionate and worldly then Vivienne. "I believe that when we are done here, there will be an Exalted March on Par Vollen."
I was kinda ignoring that quote when I tried to argue Vivienne that would try to play her hand subtly, wasn't I?
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,636
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on May 24, 2018 19:39:26 GMT
I was kinda ignoring that quote when I tried to argue Vivienne that would try to play her hand subtly, wasn't I? Yeah, but a lot of people ignore Vivienne quotes so it doesn't matter. One of the other BSN lifeboats has a "lol" button in addition to a "like" button. This is not the first time I've wished this one did.
|
|
inherit
4406
0
Jun 15, 2024 12:50:16 GMT
602
duskwanderer
Awesome
1,011
Mar 12, 2017 22:45:38 GMT
March 2017
duskwanderer
|
Post by duskwanderer on May 26, 2018 12:38:03 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Vivienne is actually not a terrible Divine. But a hardened Leliana is the best.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Member is Online
27,756
gervaise21
11,352
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on May 26, 2018 17:48:36 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Vivienne is actually not a terrible Divine. She is the only one that Cassandra ultimately refuses to work with though. Considering she is still willing to work with a blood drenched Leliana, that really says something about the type of Divine that Vivienne is.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,277
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,601
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on May 26, 2018 19:21:21 GMT
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Vivienne is actually not a terrible Divine. She is the only one that Cassandra ultimately refuses to work with though. Considering she is still willing to work with a blood drenched Leliana, that really says something about the type of Divine that Vivienne is. Leliana, to me, is insane. She has the charisma to support what appears to be a sincere compassion that Viviene's chilly politeness and wordy wit can't do the same. Lel and Cass also have a longer history of working together tempered by a woman they both admired before either one of these two take the Boss Role.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Member is Online
31,105
Hanako Ikezawa
22,771
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 26, 2018 22:47:07 GMT
She is the only one that Cassandra ultimately refuses to work with though. Considering she is still willing to work with a blood drenched Leliana, that really says something about the type of Divine that Vivienne is. Leliana, to me, is insane. She has the charisma to support what appears to be a sincere compassion that Viviene's chilly politeness and wordy wit can't do the same. Lel and Cass also have a longer history of working together tempered by a woman they both admired before either one of these two take the Boss Role. By Leliana being insane do you mean hardened Leliana or Leliana in general? If in general why do you think she is insane?
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,277
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,601
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on May 26, 2018 22:54:16 GMT
Leliana, to me, is insane. She has the charisma to support what appears to be a sincere compassion that Viviene's chilly politeness and wordy wit can't do the same. Lel and Cass also have a longer history of working together tempered by a woman they both admired before either one of these two take the Boss Role. By Leliana being insane do you mean hardened Leliana or Leliana in general? If in general why do you think she is insane? She's too maleable by the PC, being able to harden/soften twice. She also thinks she's been chosen by the Maker. No one else is like that.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Member is Online
31,105
Hanako Ikezawa
22,771
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 27, 2018 3:05:09 GMT
By Leliana being insane do you mean hardened Leliana or Leliana in general? If in general why do you think she is insane? She's too maleable by the PC, being able to harden/soften twice. She also thinks she's been chosen by the Maker. No one else is like that. I don't really see that as being insane. We've been able to shape most of the members of our teams. Sure Leliana has it happen twice but we also see her and she has more happen to her than most other team members. As for believing she is chosen by the Maker, I don't see anything insane about people thinking that.
|
|
Cantina
N3
Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 532 Likes: 952
inherit
1605
0
Dec 12, 2020 23:48:50 GMT
952
Cantina
Vive la révolution mages!
532
Sept 16, 2016 20:16:02 GMT
September 2016
cantina
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Cantina on May 27, 2018 9:43:51 GMT
By Leliana being insane do you mean hardened Leliana or Leliana in general? If in general why do you think she is insane? She's too maleable by the PC, being able to harden/soften twice. She also thinks she's been chosen by the Maker. No one else is like that. I find it hard to blame such on a non-existing character. The blame should be shifted towards the developers/writers.
The whole harden/soften system was fine in Origins. However, giving it to Lilly for the second time seems more like it was shoved in – like so many things in Inquisition. Personally, if it cannot be done right do not do it at all and don’t put harden/soften on the same character.
And as for Lilly only hearing The Maker, that is not true. Andraste did – supposedly.
Lilly came to The Chantry a young broken woman, who did things for fun and attention. That is probably was she was trying to do or it may have been a cry for help -maybe both. Or perhaps something did speak to her -maybe it was Solas or a demon; will never know. The point is: just because someone claims to have heard voices does not automatically make them insane nor a liar. The Grey Wardens hear voices, does that make them insane too?
Yes, Lilly is a bit out-there in Origins, but most lost people are. Does that make her a bad person? Of course not. Even though Lilly is broken and lost, she finds the strength to press-on. Not many people do and just give up. This is just one of the reasons why I love Lilly as a character and why she makes the perfect Divine.
|
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
24,277
phoray
Dreadnaw Rising
12,601
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by phoray on May 27, 2018 12:12:25 GMT
Cantina Hanako Ikezawa she is the Character they wrote her to be, just like Vivienne is. Should I suddenly love Viv because the writers just didn't write her sympathetically enough? Because I lack imagination? 1. she immediately glomps on you in the bar. You shake her off... 2. only for her stalk you to the edge of town and still insist on being in your party. 3. Tells a story about a rose that no one practicing her religion for years believes 4. That is later called into question by The Guardian with a vehement denial on her part. 5. And depending on how the thing with Marjolaine goes, openly admits at end game that maybe she did make it up because she missed the feeling of being special. Political intrigue and the powerful feelings of murdering people as part of it had made her feel special. She missed that and she's going to admit that to herself and embrace her murdering side. <<<--- Paraphrasing, but still, this is the person you're defending? 6. Also racist, using things she'd sexually admired about elves in the past to try to compliment an Elven Warden. Skeevy. (which is why I romanced her with a dwarf.) 7. But she apologized! you say. I don't consider her brief apology to a person she wants to boink a sincere one. It is never spoken of again leaving it up to the player to assume that she is either A. No longer racist (magical fairy dust of logic changed her world view!) or B. my assumption that she is still racist, she just hadn't realized how oblivious about it she'd been and she didn't want to offend someone she's scripted to want to kiss. 8. Never seen it, but I judge her for being suicidal over losing the Warden 9. And being obsessive enough about being right that she would come back as a lyrium ghost and haunt people until you finally finally finally convince her that this reality doesn't want her Let's see. Is that all her sins for Game 1? I may be forgetting something. I only apathetically dislike Leliana at this point, haven't played DA in several months so she's not in my face. The only reason I'm laying it out now is because not just one but TWO people are defending her against me. There is nothing really about her in DA2 to like one way or the other. her religious twist and penchant for the enjoyment of intrigue and murder makes her a perfect Left Hand of the Divine. She thrived. Working for the Divine is just close enough to working for the Maker to work that out. Felt special enough to scratch her inner emptiness. HA! just occurs to me that she may have murdered people for the same reason Cole does in the Spire. "To feel seen/alive." interesting. Then DAI comes along. She's bitter and grieving and "remembers what it felt like to be called/chosen." or whatever that little rant at the tent in Haven is about. And I'm like, good. This is reflecting the growth from DAO where you were finally honest with yourself about liking to murder. Her first reaction to every problem is to murder it. Naughty spy? Death. Haven fell? She should have valued people less, darn her. Nearly every war table mission? Death. Someone don't agree with your version of your religion? Slit their throat in the middle of a fuckin' chantry, and immediately go kidnap someone's children. At this point, If we were in person, I would wave my arms at all of that in some sort of encompassing, "doesn't this describe an insane person, how do you not see this?!" gesture. And all of it is underscored by the fact that once she's on her chosen course, you can't stop her. you, Herald of Andraste, can't order her to NOT kidnap someone's children. Your power is impotent, because you are just a figurehead, a symbol for an army, and Lel/Jose are the true power behind your throne. (sorry Cullen, you're really just everyone's whipping boy). If Lel thought you were actually the Herald, her religion wouldn't let her do anything but listen to you. She doesn't believe in you, and you are not her boss. And if you have the audacity to tell her that she shouldn't be Divine, she will tell you that to your face. "Then it's good that your opinion doesn't matter." <- said regardless of her soft/hard status. Nothing like really spelling out why I dislike her to remind me of all the things I dislike about her. Also, randomly, if you choose the bottom right option upon arrival at the Chantry, "So where's the treasure?" I think it is, she laughs and says she likes you for saying such absurd things. I don't know which I'd dislike her more for. Trying to manipulate you into thinking you're friends or being unaware of her maleable/glue myself to power figures and approve of me mentality. She's off her rocker, and thank goodness, she will never be more than Codex letter in DA4. Edit add: SifrAmusingly enough, I believe you and i have discussed Leliana's "dependent disorder" before.
|
|