Your choices didn't matter by the end?

The problem is most of this is token. "You have squadmates there to be seen. You have ships there to be seen. You have random NPCs there to be seen". You know what would've been better? Seeing them in action. Or even better, directly using them. How about a multi-stage operation where you can deploy assets gained against specific objectives to advance? ME2's suicide mission in other words, but on a mass galactic fleet scale. Something where both past and present choices can come back to bite you or can save you as the case may be. So when you get to the end, even if it's still the RGB and determined by the Crucible's healthbar we directly influence it till the very end. What we have currently both from an RPG and from a military narrative perspective is the equivalent of walking down a linear corridor. And frankly it's a mess, despite its apparent simplicity.

Well MP and most cutscenes belie your point. But more importantly, this is a mistake. This is the final battle of the franchise. Five years, hundreds of choices and hours played, everyone's in and there's no going back... why in all hells would you make it "standard gameplay"? Standard gameplay for this series means you and two NPCs trade shots with other NPCs with or without the use of powers and chest high walls. The final battle is supposed to end a galactic level extinction event. And they expect us to do that with pew-pews on the ground? But even that is too simplistic, because despite its steady improvements, ME's combat has never been its main selling point. The main selling point has been choices and choice history and making different things happen through your choices. So again we come back to, "how about instead of more inane pew pews and token appearances, we make some choices on the scale of the threat we're facing in this, the final battle of the franchise and the final time we may make any choices in this context?"


You may disagree with my connections but the fact that you make some of your own shows you understand my point.

And I'm not talking about railroading. I'm talking about some past decisions making certain paths easier or harder. Some may close a path entirely but I don't think everything should work like that. Nor was anything in my point about "right" or "wrong" ways to play, unless you inherently assume one ending is "bad" and another is "good". That's on you.

Uhm. No. The reasons for needing a relay to darkspace should be obvious. Beyond that, the "Citadel trap" is specifically stated to be about the manipulation of galactic civilizations to utilize the Citadel and relays in order to "develop along the paths [the Reapers] desire". It is intended for organics to come in and set up shop there but not examine the inner workings too carefully. That it works is not the plot hole. Between the keepers and the Citadel being able to change its internal structure (this is what saves it more than anything) it is perfectly plausible that organics never see the true inner workings. Nor is the Prothean tampering a plot hole either. Being both the first race to actually create their own relay and posessing the rather unique sensory memory thing they do makes them the best candidates to actually pull something like this off. And the way it's described, making the keepers ignore the signal to open the relay could be as easy as sending that whole function to /dev/null.

No, what you can say are gaps in logic is each cycle's complacency in accepting the Citadel as the centerpoint of their civilization without being able to fully study it and the Reapers making the Citadel the prime relay as opposed to its darkspace counterpart, and relying on the keepers to begin with. But one plot hole does not excuse another. For the Reaper controller to then have been in the Citadel the whole time takes beyond stupid to unprecedented levels of full retard.

And that's not even getting into the endings problems with the holokid, from how utterly unthinkable it should've been to try frame the victory as capitulating to the enemy, to the cheap and despicable attempt at emotional manipulation and finally absolute nonsense of the yo dawg bullshit.

And that again comes into conflict with the sheer number of choices that can be made. If you don't have DLC Zaeed will not show up even though he is canon. How would you replace him in action? He has no connection to you and no reason to show up because at best he is just some random mercenary that shows up for a couple of minutes and gone. If Garrus doesn't make it though the suicide mission in ME 2 how would you handle that? At best it would be like the Destiny Ascension set up were you get 2-4 seconds of screen time of them holding a default rifle firing a few rounds and maybe ducking. And that would be it.

Ever since the first first level of the game it has been a linear corridor based shooting game were everyone funnels down a single set path and you kill everyone along the way. Seriously did you start the ME series on Priority Earth and never play any other level? It makes the same amount of sense when dealing with RP or military set up the same as literally any other mission in the game since the first mission on Eden Prime. RP part doesn't really come into play when you are in combat. The RP parts comes from the actions outside of it or conversations during it. Not the actual fighting it self. Military the actions make perfect sense. The entire set up is the Galaxy is on it's last leg due to months of fighting with every ounce of strength they have only to be inexorably pushed back by the Reapers anyways.  They are exhausted and spent, the infrastructure of the galaxy that would be able to sustain a war effort has been shattered.  Any attempts at conventional warfare with the Reapers will only end with the Reaper winning. The entire point is to distract the Reapers with the fleets in space. Land enough troops to make a single point strike on the Reaper forces around the Citadel Beam. To break an opening before they can react and redeploy their superior troop numbers to counter them. So they can get enough troops into the beam to open the arms open by using choke points to limit the Reaper forces that can be brought into play.  And all this has to be done ASAP because the only thing stopping the Reapers from orbital bombarding the troop gathering points are the Fleets in space that are getting ripped apart to buy time and protect the Crucible.

Final battle was never about galactic extinction event it was about fighting your way from point A to point B to open the Citadel arms. Because again it is made very clear the direct conventional warfare only ends with the Reapers winning. But on the story of choices yes the choices are the big selling point because combat wasn't perfected till the last game. But with in that set up you seem to be ignoring how they are handled. There is a narrative story that we are following. How ever within that narrative there are options for players to make different choices.  Free or kill Rachnni Queen, sell or activate Legion, Cure the Genophage or don't. And each choice has the same weight to over all story. Save the Rachnni Queen and that is it. What you get next game is a small chat with an Asari who is being willingly controlled by the Queen telling you about how they are laying low. and ME 3 simply another chance to save the queen or leave her again.  Either way those levels are complete and you move onto the next one. Heck even something major like Priority Rannoch if Legion and Tali are both killed in ME 2 then you get replacements for them that still allow you to move the game forward. Granted you are prevented from the peace option but it doesn't actually punish you for having them die by preventing you from advancing the game. And there are other ways to build up War Assets to still get the good ending you might be aiming for.

The ME series is a trilogy that you have to go out of your way and mess up on purpose to actually suffer negative effects from your actions.


Actually there isn't any overt reason for them to need a relay to dark space. To start Dark Space the area between galaxies is a very very large place. As well Sovereign was shown to be able to operate in the galaxy for over 50,000 years without being detected and without needing outside assistance so again not very well defined.  On top of that the Citadel isn't needed for the races to follow the path the Reapers set down. All they needed for that was to leave behind the scraps of their technology so they develop using that technology. Though lets be honest here that line is a bit of a stretch because there are only so many ways to bend the laws of physics in the galaxy.

And that is actually the point that any race would suddenly start colonizing on an abandoned space station that they don't fully understand. This is complete anti logic of the highest caliber. If tomorrow you found an abandoned car in your drive way with the keys in it. You wouldn't jump right in with your kids and start driving it would you?  The Prothean's extra sensory abilities only show up in the final game. Which still doesn't solve the plot hole. Not only are the Keepers not real sentient beings. But the fact their own race with that ability lived on it for decades and never figured it out. Yet a dozen people suddenly are able to solve in decades what thousands of years was some how avoided? How can the vague indoctrination effect some how magically effect millions of Protheans over thousands of years. Yet some how not effect a dozen people?

Are these Prothean Scientists magic? Did the rest of their entire race and the people that ruled their empire just forget to take their anti indoctrination pills? Did they invent a magical cloak of invisibility that prevented that Keepers from seeing them and the Reaper effects from effecting them? But seriously if you want to start trying to use logic outside of simply the first game then your argument falls apart harder then a house of cards being hit by a magnitude 10 earth quake while simultaneously being hit by a F5 Tornado and Category 5 Hurricane.

Mass Relay technology isn't the same as discovering and avoiding the apparently manipulation that trillions of individuals across billions of races across thousands of cycles were apparently incapable of doing.

The Reapers can travel at around 10,958 times the speed of light. For comparison the Alliance ships travel at around 50 times he speed of light.  The Alpha Relay is located at the very edge of galaxy space located in a back water resource limited system. That the only reason the Batarians are in it is because their government is having a penis measuring contest with the rest of the galaxy in their own mind. Complete with an artifact that reacts to how close the Reapers are and indoctrinates anyone who finds it to keep quite about the Reaper invasion. On top of the fact the Alpha Relay can have it's settings alter to allow it to link to dozens of Primary Relays across the galaxy including the Citadel one.

As well as the Reaper's purpose is to find a working solution to Organic vs Synthetic conflict so if the Citadel could manipulate the species of the galaxy to develop on the path they want then there would be no need for each cycle's harvest.

The Catalyst being there actually clears a ton of stuff up about this. Particularly if you ignore the relay part as a false assumption made by the VI on Ilos due to the action of the Alpha Relay.  The very design of the Citadel doesn't even vaugly look like it could be a mass Relay. How ever it does look like a giant signal dish. Being a massive satellite that signals the Reapers in dark space to head towards the galaxy makes way more sense. Not only could the citizens of the galaxy explore the Citadel and over look something as simple as that without it being mind numbingly stupid. But it would also make sense why the Prothean scientists could alter it because now they knew what they were looking for. This also explains why Sovergein despite having a good half hour head start on Shepard of being connected to it that nothing seemed to happen.

The Reaper signal was blocked and Sovereign couldn't call on the Reapers. It also prevented it from contacting the Catalyst. So when it attacked and latch on it was not only activating the signal to Harbinger in Dark Space but also communicating with the Catalyst.  When the Saren puppet over loads it threatened to overload all the Citadel systems so the Catalyst redirected it into Sovereign. Which also fixes the plot hole how a small 5 foot tall marauder could some how overload and entire Reaper. It also explains why they were so reluctant to take the Citadel till absolutely needed. If word got out what was housed there the races of the galaxy could very well destroy the Citadel and the Catalyst so a soft touch was needed leaving it along till they rendered the galaxy a non threat. Of course that was before TIM blabbed.


Viewing the choices as capitulating to the enemies wishes is such a narrow view of it. I'd go more into it but that is another several paragraphs and it is 1 am here so going to end it with that.

But you forget this is Shepard's story. Everything that happens is based around him. Hence why we play only as Shepard and any squad mates are simply support that we control very indirectly telling them to move here or use X ability.  As well as for a couple of good reasons. To start it would effect people's ability to RP in the game. They would be forced to play a very specific way to be able to win or they would get game over and be unable to finish. If it was altered to the point that even someone is purposefully trying to do the worst possible set up in the game. Then it would lose it's meaning because someone who did everything wouldn't be challenged at all.

AKA if you make it so the quadriplegic can do it then the Olympian athlete will not have any trouble what so ever. Which negates the entire point of your set up.

Secondly due to the fact the internet exists within a week every single possible set up and correct moves would exist on the internet in great detail on forums all over the place. Allowing people to make perfect actions each time. Which negates the entire point of that.

It would be the video game equivalent of a stair master. A lot of work that doesn't get you anywhere and is ultimately just a waste of time.


Yes choices but the combat has always been linear shooter. Even on ME 1 the planet exploration inevitably lead to some carbon copy base that you had to fight your way though. Across the surface there was a random splattering of people to shoot at but they are the extreme minority compared to the rest.


 Yes Hackett is in charge in space and Anderson is calling the shots on the ground.  They would listen because the military is not full of petulant whining children who would cry and complain that the person telling them what to do doesn't look the same. But even if you wanted to take the route that Hackett isn't the singular leader on the field. Then each race would have their own chain of command that would leave 1 person in charge of them. Which would mean those people would coordinate with each other.

Something similar to:

Hackett: We need help on our right flank the Reapers are tearing up the 77th Fleet
Asari Adimral: Sorry can't help right now the Reaper fighters have us pinned.
Salarian Admiral: Our scout Fleets will try to draw off their fire.
Turian Admiral: Sorry we are busy helping the Quarian right flank hold back the Reapers from breaking their line
Geth: Geth 5th Fleet will arrive to assist in 6 minutes 32 seconds Admiral Hackett.
Quarian: Sorry Admiral we are a little busy with our right flank.

Ground combat would be similar only they would have Shepard leading which would inspire troops and Anderson would be the General because he has been fighting on Earth since the Reapers invaded and knows the land far better then any of the other races would. Or again similar set up on the ground.

Don't let your arms pop out of your socket with all that reaching your doing.



Ironically the rush them is exactly what happens in ME 2. The entire point of it is the crew attacks one end drawing all the collectors attention (AKA space battle with Reapers) while Shepard's squad goes in the lightly defended areas to get around and into their secured area that blunt force wouldn't normally allow them to get to (AKA ground assault to beam). The crew rescue is only possible because both the frontal and side attack by the different squads has the entire Collector base forcing on them (AKA The Crucible being able to dock with Citadel).

It is about strategy and tactics and rushing is the only way they can win. The Reapers out gun, out number and can out endure the races of the galaxy. They hold all the cards. The Fleets are doomed to destruction it is only a matter of time. Without the Fleets the Crucible is one giant sitting duck to be blow up. The Citadel arms are shut tighter then a misers purse. The only way to access it is though the transport beam. Which is surrounded by Reaper troops and Reaper Destroyers. Who also out number, out gun and can out endure you.  They have the man power to shrug off minor attacks and the second you make a major attack they will redirect all the troops to that area to push you back. The possibility of reinforcements doesn't exist because of the space battle raging above you would just lead to any ships attempting to land to be blow out of the sky.

At that point you have no other choice then to send everything you have down one attack line to force your way though and into the beam before they can respond with over whelming force. Once your in with any and all troops you can you hold the Citadel open until the last man. It is the only possible set up given they have such a limited time, limited man power and limited supplies while they are facing down the Hulk.


Again not really galactic extinction because the Reapers don't kill everything. ME is the story of Sheaprd and while his/her story does take place in this event the game focuses on Shepard. Shepard's squad fighting their way though the streets of London to get to the beam is every bit as important as the space battle raging over head. In fact it is even more important. Because if they don't break though to the beam and don't get inside the Citadel to open it the entire plan falls apart. That ground squad is the linchpin of the entire attack. That is why Hackett has Shepard put at the front of it.


Doom has a very basic system basically just point and shoot till dead. ME 3 refines the power combos allows players to more fully utilize their classes to make each one more unique. ME3's MP is still active because they actually finally polished the game's combat system to perfection. Even though it is extremely repetitive and relies very heavily on random loot gain that drags out unlocking stuff unless you are willing to throw tons of money at it. ME 3 is the point that both the combat and RP side could be selling points to anyone interested in it.  Hence why many times much like Assassin's Creed people who have played ME 2 and 3 will not play ME 1 specifically because of how bad the combat is and that they can just pick major choices in the game anyways.


And again the story is about Shepard. Shepard made their choices and due tot he variety of possible choices trying to show every single one isn't feasibility done. It again also dictates correct and incorrect play thoughts. If he assult is harder because you didn't cure the Krogan then you are being punished for your choices. Which means your choice to kill Wrex on Virmire and then to not want to support Wrev harms you for it.  Which means the only choice in the game is to save Wrex or you have to support Wrev. No matter what you think of them because other wise it kicks you in the teeth for your actions.



And those thousands can be spread out in dark space not bunched together like a bunch of clowns in a clown car. Heck the lower power state they exist in alone would be enough to hid them from any sensors from probes. The Widow Nebula doesn't stop you from coming any way but the Relay. To start the area behind the Citadel is a Nebula area that makes traversing it hazardous. The front part of it how ever is open and clear. 

Scraps of out dated technology becomes curiosities but all the technology scraps left behind by Reapers after each harvest are hundreds of years more advanced then the races that find it. They then procedure to reverse engineer it and emulate it and basically start all over from were the last cycle started.


Actually great example do you know how many possible ways there are to rig a car up?

wgntv.com/2016/05/06/digital-vulnerability-can-hackers-turn-your-vehicle-into-a-remote-control-car/

Going high way speed then suddenly your brakes lock up. And that isn't even going the more direct route of rigging an explosive to the car that would go off when you start the engine.

The Asari Discovered the Citadel about 2,000 years before the events of the game. Like 100 years after that the Salarians discovered it. And within that time both groups never fully explored it yet colonized this abandoned space station. And as time went on more and more races colonized it as well.   The whole thing makes absolutely no sense what so ever.



Your logic is the Prothean's extra sensory ability allowed them to change the signal. Yet it ignores they should have known about it from the start if it actually meant anything. And the idiocy of having parts blocked off and not fully understanding it is still equally stupid be it Asari or Prothean or any race who did that.  It is anti logic to think any race would stumble on a massive abandoned and in perfect condition space station. Would take on look at the barely sentient Keepers, be unable to fully explore the space station and some how decide this is were the center of their empire should reside.

It pushes the suspension of belief to it's breaking point and beyond to think this could possibly happen to any logical beings. Horror movies hold better logic and those are movies were people stay in a haunted house. Someone is found mutilated to death so they decide to stay in the house and someone goes off alone to have sex and then they to die.



And yet if the Keepers can not physically prevent people from accessing deeper into the Citadel and Intotrination isn't possible other wise it would have gotten the scientests as well. Why didn't the Protheans fully explore the Citadel?


masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Alpha_Relay


They can also attack them before they develop the technology needed to stand a chance. Which is kind of the reason they leave a Vanguard behind rather then just having an auto setting on Citadel. The vanguard monitors the races of the galaxy and when they deem it is time to harvest they remotely trigger the invasion.

The technology needed to control eezo and to replicate FTL technology isn't just hook a car battery up to a pile of the stuff and suddenly my beat up 4 cylinder car can out run a bullet train.  If they find a computer that has 100 times the processing power of current computers that fits in the palm of their hand. That technology will cause advancements in other fields as well.

And again the entire point of the Reapers isn't to prevent AI's from being developed it is to prevent the conflict starting between them and organics. To make it so peace will exist between the two groups. They only harvest races because so far each cycle has failed that. And if the Citadel could manipulate the galaxy's species so much then there wouldn't have needed to have a harvest beyond the first couple of ones.



No it doesn't because the entire point of the Catalyst is that it is the secrete leader of the Reapers. Completely hidden and has no need to interact with the rest of the galaxy.



Complete bull poo. Sovereign was fighting with Shepard at the same time it was keeping it's ME fields active and blowing the heck out of the Alliance Fleet. Then once Shepard kills a glorified Marauder that is some how enough to cause all of the systems to short out. The ME field to go inactive and actually allow the Alliance ships that previously weren't even cause a smudge to show up on it.

That makes so little sense it hurts the head to think about it to closely.  Seriously if you are so in support of these completely and utterly brain hurting idiocies then the absolute worse you can say about the ME trilogy is it ended as it began. Making absolutely no sense what so ever.




Again narrow view point. Though also very vague so hard to argue specifics. But I will try based on previous complaints I have seen.

Up to that point the Reapers have offered no other choice but a fight to the death of one side or the other. The Catalyst being the leader of the Reapers offers another choice besides total destruction of this cycle. Because it sees a chance for change. Remember the three choices are not required you can refuse to choose and the Crucible goes offline. The only reason you get to choose even the choice to destroy the Reaper is because the Catalyst sees the potential for change for the better.

Nothing that Catalyst says is disproves at all in the game. EDI is an individual and the Geth are a single. It requires a lot of faith on the level of a religion to say that every synthetic race in the galaxy will now until the end of time be exactly the same. Particularly given the advantages that synthetic races have over organics that there would never be conflict and that the synthetics wouldn't gain the upper hand.

Reapers are nigh cosmic entities. They are made from technology the galaxy can't even start to comprehend. Thousands of minds linking to create an entirely new consciousness far beyond what was used to create it. Their actions have allowed the continued existence of organic life despite thousands of cycles and the inevitable conflict that starts between organic and synthetic life. That the Qurians and Geth represented in this cycle.

Heck without the Reapers the Quarians would be extinct from their fight with the Geth. No relays to bring them to other races and the infrastructure build around them the couple thousand Quairans that fled during the climax of the Morning War would have been a drift in space till fuel and later food and water and out and died.

Going to sum stuff up because long posts are apparently not worth the effort it seems.

No Shepard's story takes place during the events depicted in the game. Which isn't the same as the events happening and Shepard is only secondary to it. As well Shepard negotiated for their support. The Turians didn't show up because Shepard asked them to. Primarch Victus set the terms that if the Alliance were to get any support from the Turians they wanted Krogan ground troops. Wrex/Wrev set the terms of Krogan support to be tied to curing the Genophage. The Qurian, Geth and Salarians set similar terms for their support. Only the Asari agree to help without requiring something done for them and that only happens after Thessia is taken over by the Reapers so they have no choice.

Shepard didn't just say "follow me everyone!!!" and then all the races agreed to help. I genuinely don't understand how you can't differentiate the two and how it some how means everyone would be uncoordinated shooting at each other and completely being unwilling to listen to anyone but themselves unless Shepard is the one calling the shots. As well as it is clear that Hackett is in charge of the building of the Crucible and the organization that goes with it.

For Suicide mission you have to be pretty stupid to fail it. Basically Legion/Katsumi for first door then Garrus for the other two. Since you know the entire point of his time as Arch Angel was him hitting well fortified merc strongholds. You have to willingly screw up to mess that up or simply not paid any attention. And when it comes to that it is still the same linear corridor shooting. The only point it has is that it allows people to kill off crew members so they can get their replacements in ME 3.

Choices have consequences but you are still able to proceed in the game with them. Without Tali and Legion you can't make peace and that has an effect on the story. How ever if you lose both of them in ME 2 the game doesn't come to a halt that if you lose Legion you have to pick Quarians or if you lose Tali you have to pick Geth. And if you lose both the entire story grinds to a game over screen because there is no one to take their place in the game.



Possible but hazardous to the point there is no reason to use any other method then the Relays. After all would you take the single lane road that is right on sheer ledge 500 feet above the ground. Or the tunnel that travels under the mountain and is 4 lanes each way?

On topic of Reapers they travel much faster then organic ships. As well organic ships are limited to 3 days at FTL speed before they need to stop and discharge the static build up. A week or two at FTL speed would put them far beyond what the races of the galaxy could reach. On top of that sensor probes don't use visual they use other readings. Which given the nature of the Reapers having them in low power mode acting similar to the Normandy's stealth mode wouldn't be a surprise.


You don't seem to understand how technology works and how it spreads.  They make a break though reverse engineering a computer into a form we can use. That advanced computer then is slowly made the norm for computers. While at the same time we are constantly attempting to improve them making the even faster and better. On top of that the new technology allows break thorough in other fields of science. It effectively jumps them ahead several centuries in terms of technology but doesn't actually alter anything. Because again there are only so many ways to do certain things. 

Element Zero is the only material capable of defying the laws of physics. Without that ships might have rail guns on them but the standard infantry weapons would be chemically propelled. Ships would be traveling months just to reach the next star system.



I already did. The Proheans were not religious figures to the Asari the same way they are the Hanar. With exception of the highest level of government within the Asari no one knew about them. Remember the whole bit on Thessia with Javik were there is the back and forth and Liara finally realizes the Goddesses the Asari worship are actually Protheans. Who over time shifted till they became more Asari like then Prothean?

Even taking into account any significance of Protheans to the Asari culture the fact still remains they were suddenly wiped out by some unexplained way. And they stumble on a perfectly  perserved massive space station that has absolutely no information about Protheans at all on it. And they decide to colonize it without fully exploring it.

Because remember the galaxy at large had no information on the Protheans besides what archeologists could find. In fact it is kind of a major point that Javik reveals the Protheans aren't the benevolent leaders of the galaxy showing the less advanced races the path to knowledge. But they were a Tyrannical dictatorship that set themselves at the top and threaten death to anyone who challenged them.  The fact that Liara and others are still researching the Protheans shows the Citadel offered no information about them. Other then they lived there at one point then suddenly vanished with no trace as to how or why.



I've already covered this but ok.

1. Why would they not have come into contact with any part of the Citadel's inner workings despite making that the capital of their galactic wide empire?
2. How would the Scientists know what to look for on a massive space station that they have never seen the inner workings of? The Keepers reacting to the signal would trigger something hidden deep inside the Citadel in areas the Protheans didn't get before.  There would be no way to know the when the Keepers triggered or how they triggered it to be passed along to the Prothean's on Ilos. Just one day boom Reapers in the sky.

This also contradict your previous statement about the Citadel alters the people who live on it to change behaviors to fit the Reaper's needs. That would mean the decades they would need to spend to search the massive station would effect them and alter their minds to not want to look for it and explore the depths of the station. Your own logic completely and utterly contradicts your own statements.

3. This one just contradicts your complaints about the Catalyst. If the logic behind why the Citadel isn't a massive plot hole is because each cycle repeats the exact same set up of the last. Then when the Catalyst says that each cycle will repeat the violence between organic and synthetic and that synthetic life will eventually win and wipe out organic life.



Really at this point I don't see any further use of discussing anything with you because you contradict yourself so hard that I actually cringed reading your responses.

Seriously first you say all races repeat the same actions over and over again with the Citadel. Yet you say the Catalyst is wrong when it says that all races repeat the same actions over and over again.

You say the Protheans never explored the inner working of the Citadel so they never found the Mass Relay portion or the signal to the Keepers. Yet some how Scientists who went into stasis since the start of the war some how managed to go into the inner workings that no one has ever been and alter technology that is beyond even the Prothean's knowledge. And that the fact the Prothean Empire lost all connection with the Citadel just after the Reapers attacked. You say living on the Citadel alters the races mentality so they keep developing in the way and acting the way the Reapers want. Yet some how magically a group of Protheans were immune to it while they altered the Keeper signal.

Actually, they did plan for it to be a trilogy, according to the September 2006 issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly.

CE=Citadel Epilogue mod.  It alters dialogue in the Citadel DLC to remove references to fighting Reapers, Cerberus etc so you can imagine it taking place after the war.  THat way you can play it after beating the game and pretend that it's a victory celebration.

Funny thing is that I think Citadel DLC works just fine before the ending. After doesn't work because Shepard may not survive. And even if he does, he's probably in no shape to have a party. I think the forced retrofits keeping them down works. Then, on top of that, the fight with CloneShep in the shuttle bay does additional damage. But it's clear after the party that this may be the last one they ever get to have. It's a lot like a farewell. I think it works best just after Horizon.

Also, and maybe this is because I knew pretty much zero about Mass Effect before buying ME1/2 in a bundle on Steam earlier this year, I wasn't disappointed with the endings. I don't need to see Shepard standing on the Normandy. I have to believe that, even if he survives, he's going to be badly injured to the point that he's not doing much more than undergoing surgery and lying in a hospital bed for some time to come. If I was going to have a "happy ending" in the MEHEM sense, I'd save Anderson as well to let him settle down with Kahlee Sanders. Otherwise, I can dream that he recovers and lives happily ever after with Kaidan.

You've got a point there. I've been repeating myself in the vain hopes of getting you to see reason. Clearly a waste of time. One that will be rectified.

Without Shepard, Saren gets away clean, no one is the wiser and the Reapers pull surprise buttsecks on the galaxy like they did every time before. The end.

Yes, yes, making and reflecting choices is a big waste of time in this choice making and reflecting RPG series. Fuck that, let's pew pew some more. Also there's no such thing as default playthroughs or stand-ins for lost resources. Nope, never heard of such things.

You mean how Shepard magically found the control panel to open the arms after the beam run? I bet the blood loss and melted armor made him psychic. Oh, and Anderson too! He probably channeled the spirit of his voice actor, Keith David, to intimidate the keepers into telling him where to go.

Still haven't looked up "self-fulfilling prophecy" I see. You really should do your research.

Buddy you probably never even searched "every square inch" of your house, and likely never will. You take the word of your parents who took the word of your realtor who may have done some inspections (unless they were bought off) but never discovered the secret compartment full of dead children because the kindly old man who used to live there reminds them so much of their grandfather they got caught up in nostalgia. But hey. Shit happens.

Re:  Paragraphs 1 through 4 - I agree with you.

Re:  Paragraphs 5 through 10 - I disagree... and I think that Bioware's "criticism" of society here was in the fact that many people will utilize technology that they don't understand and that technology is getting exceedingly more and more complex and we are getting more and more dependent on it... and more dependent on other technology to diagnose what's wrong with those technologies.  For example, we "scope" our cars and let the computers tell us what's wrong... we even go so far as do disbelieve the people reporting problems with their vehicles because the scope doesn't find an issue.  I had one car that went through 6 batteries in two years (boiling them dry) and I absolutely could not convince the dealership there was an issue because the "scope" never picked up an error code.  I also wager that more people live in their homes not even really knowing how the furnace really works than do... or know how to replace the flusher in their toilets, etc..  There was a time when people were more self-sufficient and "handy" about doing home maintenance and repairs... but, from what I've seen, there are increasing numbers of people who have never learned how to even use a wrench.   I think that, embedded in ME, is a little bit of a warning to us all about the dangers of not bothering to learn how something in our lives really works.

Not every major choice was properly integrated into the final Mass Effect game, but in a very broad sense the final choice still matters.

A.  Don't presume to diagnose the problem with my car... I live in Canada... hot temperatures were not the issue.  All batteries were replacements provided by the dealer under warranty because they had to honor the warranty even though they could not find the problem with the car.  If the dealer was having such a problem with the brand of battery they were using, they would have been replacing them in all the vehicles they sold during that two-year period... and probably would have changed battery brands long prior to my having to replace the 6th one.  When the warranty ran out on the car... I traded it in.  The newer car's first battery lasted five years.

B.  As for the rest, I'm not going any deeper into an argument with you.  I disagree with you and I stated why.  We can agree to disagree and leave it at that.