Toyish Batphone
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 8, 2016 13:59:14 GMT
Yes well, nice guys are seen by women as boring these days, only good for being the spare tire / fallback plan when the bad boy eventually dumps her for another lay so naturally this sentiment should be expected. I played male Shepard and found Kaidan to be a quite nice introverted man. Apart from his migraines, there is nothing wrong with him. Is Kaidan nice? Yes. Is he a good friend? Sure. Is he boring and whiney to some people? Yes. My Femshep was a Spectre and Commander and looking for a little more adventure than the boy next door bad boy, that's all. Just be direct, I won't bite.
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Post by Obliviousmiss on Oct 8, 2016 14:08:58 GMT
Is Kaidan nice? Yes. Is he a good friend? Sure. Is he boring and whiney to some people? Yes. My Femshep was a Spectre and Commander and looking for a little more adventure than the boy next door bad boy, that's all. Just be direct, I won't bite. I married a very nice guy. But my video game counterparts like to live a little. Is that too hard to believe?
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Post by Faux-Shepard on Oct 8, 2016 14:11:58 GMT
I'm curious, what would you consider to be attractive? I'm surprised guys don't find Josephine attractive since she has classically feminine features and an elegant coif, while Cassandra has angular cheekbones a model could kill for. I totally get why someone (not me, but someone) would be attracted to Cass and/or Josephine. But, I'm not into the tomboy thing and I also am not particularly attracted to women of color. It's just a personal preference.
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Toyish Batphone
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 293 Likes: 437
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 8, 2016 14:23:25 GMT
I'm curious, what would you consider to be attractive? I'm surprised guys don't find Josephine attractive since she has classically feminine features and an elegant coif, while Cassandra has angular cheekbones a model could kill for. Many straight men like women like Morrigan or Isabela or Merrill. Josephine while looking beautiful, is not a Morrigan, not an Isabela and not a Merrill. She is more Kelly Chambers & Samantha Traynor. One is not popular with straight male Shepards (unless it was on the side) and the other is a lesbian. Cassandra looks like a tomboy and only certain kinds of men like that. Additionally, Bioware has no idea how to draw (3D) and animate Cassandra. She looks great from some angles and completely unflattering from some but from artwork like in World of Thedas, she looks decent all-around. Its no different than majority of the women liking Cullen because of how pretty he looks with some women being old fashioned and going for the manly-looking men like Blackwall or Iron Bull.
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Post by Faux-Shepard on Oct 8, 2016 14:29:32 GMT
There does seem to be a double standard when it comes to how shallow men and women are. It seems to be more permissible for women.
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2016 14:37:31 GMT
Welcome to the "Straight Femsheps who didn't like Kaidan in Mass Effect 1" Club. Yes well, nice guys are seen by women as boring these days, only good for being the spare tire / fallback plan when the bad boy eventually dumps her for another lay so naturally this sentiment should be expected. I played male Shepard and found Kaidan to be a quite nice introverted man. Apart from his migraines, there is nothing wrong with him. *frowns* Nice Guy Syndrome biting hard huh? ----- TO THE OPStraight female here, who really appreciates beings a female in video games. My options were Cullen, Blackwall, Solas. Cullen's scraggly face fuzz is kinda bad and his nude art was done poorly, Blackwall's ruddy complexion and sometimes even his beard is awful (never see him clothes free) and he's killed kids, and Solas is bald and apparently wants to destroy all of Thedas. Cassandra is painfully honest but not intentionally to pain you and has a full fleshed out history that makes her more real sounding than most of the other characters. A sexy accent. You even get to see boobs and she's never killed even one kid or plans to do so. Even I'm going to make a male character to romance her. Get a mod to change her appearance to more your liking [and] romance her, and shut up. For I have no sympathy for your supposed plight whatsoever. Edit Add: Oh yeah, Iron Bull. BDSM. Big deterrent.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 14:41:10 GMT
I like nice guys... I waited for Kaidan for two games, but finally I got him. That's good. (Bi/gay Cullen and Blackwall also would be nice option!)
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 14:50:51 GMT
I'm curious, what would you consider to be attractive? I'm surprised guys don't find Josephine attractive since she has classically feminine features and an elegant coif, while Cassandra has angular cheekbones a model could kill for. Many straight men like women like Morrigan or Isabela or Merrill. Josephine while looking beautiful, is not a Morrigan, not an Isabela and not a Merrill. She is more Kelly Chambers & Samantha Traynor. One is not popular with straight male Shepards (unless it was on the side) and the other is a lesbian. Cassandra looks like a tomboy and only certain kinds of men like that. Additionally, Bioware has no idea how to draw (3D) and animate Cassandra. She looks great from some angles and completely unflattering from some but from artwork like in World of Thedas, she looks decent all-around. Its no different than majority of the women liking Cullen because of how pretty he looks with some women being old fashioned and going for the manly-looking men like Blackwall or Iron Bull. If Josephine's romance was given more options for players who wanted to be more intimate, would that have helped? Or is it because she's not a companion in the field that hampers the appeal? I can't say I had any attraction to any of the male options on a physical level until I got to know them. Even then, I'll still say that Bull's got a tiny head compared to his body and Cullen is kinda...meh if I judged him only on his looks. Solas has beautiful cheekbones but I'm still snickering at how much his head really does resemble an egg and Blackwall was barely a blip on my radar until I went through the content.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 14:58:20 GMT
Yes well, nice guys are seen by women as boring these days, only good for being the spare tire / fallback plan when the bad boy eventually dumps her for another lay so naturally this sentiment should be expected. I played male Shepard and found Kaidan to be a quite nice introverted man. Apart from his migraines, there is nothing wrong with him. *frowns* Nice Guy Syndrome biting hard huh? ----- Straight female here, who really appreciates beings a female in video games. My options were Cullen, Blackwall, Solas. Cullen's scraggly face fuzz is kinda bad and his nude art was done poorly, Blackwall's ruddy complexion and sometimes even his beard is awful (never see him clothes free) and he's killed kids, and Solas is bald and apparently wants to destroy all of Thedas. Cassandra is painfully honest but not intentionally to pain you and has a full fleshed out history that makes her more real sounding than most of the other characters. A sexy accent. You even get to see boobs and she's never killed even one kid or plans to do so. Even I'm going to make a male character to romance her. Get a mod to change her appearance to more your liking, romance her, and shut up. I like nice guys too, but I also would like a little more self-assertive attitude. Vega hits the right balance. He's respectful but not afraid to say Shep's flipping nuts if she makes a decision he thinks is stupid. Kaidan would fold under a Femshep's opinion if she bulldozed him with a persuasion check back in ME1. (On a side note, Blackwall didn't kill kids. His men did and he failed to stop them. Huge difference, because he never had any intention to in the first place. He also has no intention of killing any more.)
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Toyish Batphone
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 293 Likes: 437
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 8, 2016 15:02:45 GMT
Yes well, nice guys are seen by women as boring these days, only good for being the spare tire / fallback plan when the bad boy eventually dumps her for another lay so naturally this sentiment should be expected. I played male Shepard and found Kaidan to be a quite nice introverted man. Apart from his migraines, there is nothing wrong with him. *frowns* Nice Guy Syndrome biting hard huh? ----- Straight female here, who really appreciates beings a female in video games. My options were Cullen, Blackwall, Solas. Cullen's scraggly face fuzz is kinda bad and his nude art was done poorly, Blackwall's ruddy complexion and sometimes even his beard is awful (never see him clothes free) and he's killed kids, and Solas is bald and apparently wants to destroy all of Thedas. Cassandra is painfully honest but not intentionally to pain you and has a full fleshed out history that makes her more real sounding than most of the other characters. A sexy accent. You even get to see boobs and she's never killed even one kid or plans to do so. Even I'm going to make a male character to romance her. Get a mod to change her appearance to more your liking, romance her, and shut up. Ooh...evidently someone got triggered. Good...good...let that hate flow through you...for I love schadenfreude... Psst...Here's a tip:- If you get triggered and tell me to shut up (and you are not my boss or my parent or the police), I am going to respond by provoking you even further. Also, my disagreements with Cassandra is race-gated, not look-gated. I dislike her if I am playing as Lavellan, I do not dislike her if I am playing as the other protagonist, simply because Cassandra believes that Elven faith is a bunch of nonsense, which she does state if you bring her to the Temple of Mythal yet she disapproves of Lavellan being critical of Andrastianism or the Chantry. That's just bigotry. Josephine is the only way to go for straight male Lavellan. The general rule of thumb when it comes to writing romantic content for females, whether it be in books or serials or movies or video games - Always go for drama, woman lap that shit up like a starving kid in Africa laps up food. Its why an overwhelming romance novels and romance movies have the plot, story and characters that they have. Its why there is lots of angst, tears, feels and vag tingles in female romances and why part of a female romance arc involves the guy doing something crazy. Its why Solas is a very popular female Inquisitor romance option even though he is gated and it is why part of Cullen's romance arc involves him going through the very painful process of substance addiction withdrawal. Women lap that shit up - You might not, but an overwhelming amount of them do. Otherwise, you would get stuck with nice guys and well, as one poster stated previously, women find nice guys boring - They are good as dependable husbands but they don't have the vag tingling baggage of bad boy behavior, angst, drama, and feels...
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 15:09:01 GMT
There does seem to be a double standard when it comes to how shallow men and women are. It seems to be more permissible for women. Depends on the context. Women DO judge a LI according to looks but the threads made about their romances are based on story, not appearance. A lot of us are just tired of having to settle for being treated as an afterthought. A lot of us are tired of the drama and heartache that follows heterosexual female stories. Female wardens have to make Alistair sleep with another woman in order to have a happy ending. Try going through that with a female love interest. Zevran starts off trying to kill you. DA2...well, guys went through the same drama as women. But gay guys are shafted even worse than straight women. DAI almost left us with both romance options who lie and have a high chance of dying at the end. Bull can betray you and Blackwall can leave you naked in a barn. No woman wants to be treated the way gaming gives female protagonists. ME3 is an infamous joke how Femshep had more lesbian options than male options. If Kaidan was Virmired and you picked anyone but Garrus, hellooooo solitude.
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Toyish Batphone
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 293 Likes: 437
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 8, 2016 15:10:32 GMT
Many straight men like women like Morrigan or Isabela or Merrill. Josephine while looking beautiful, is not a Morrigan, not an Isabela and not a Merrill. She is more Kelly Chambers & Samantha Traynor. One is not popular with straight male Shepards (unless it was on the side) and the other is a lesbian. Cassandra looks like a tomboy and only certain kinds of men like that. Additionally, Bioware has no idea how to draw (3D) and animate Cassandra. She looks great from some angles and completely unflattering from some but from artwork like in World of Thedas, she looks decent all-around. Its no different than majority of the women liking Cullen because of how pretty he looks with some women being old fashioned and going for the manly-looking men like Blackwall or Iron Bull. If Josephine's romance was given more options for players who wanted to be more intimate, would that have helped? Or is it because she's not a companion in the field that hampers the appeal? I can't say I had any attraction to any of the male options on a physical level until I got to know them. Even then, I'll still say that Bull's got a tiny head compared to his body and Cullen is kinda...meh if I judged him only on his looks. Solas has beautiful cheekbones but I'm still snickering at how much his head really does resemble an egg and Blackwall was barely a blip on my radar until I went through the content. Yes. If Josephine had a proper sex scene like the one Liara had in Mass Effect, most straight male players would frankly not bother with Cassandra even though her romance story arc makes a lot more sense than Josephine's. I find it odd that the Inquisitor needed to say that he loves Josephine in public to further the romance even though I am sure when Josephine & the Inquisitor were making out, they would have said their "I love you" statements. Contrast this with Cassandra where her romance arc makes sense - You flirt with her, you court her, you sing some raunchy poetry, you have sex with her and you are set with her. I find Blackwall to be the most handsome female romance option. As a straight male, the kind of man that I find handsome-looking is the traditional masculine man - Facial hair, toned body, hairy chest...The whole nine yards (Just look at Henry Cavill from Man of Steel or BvS or Hugh Jackman as Wolverine). Cullen's alright but he is like Dorian in that both of them are pretty, not handsome. Solas is not physically appealing but that's the point - The Dread Wolf is not supposed to stand out like a sore thumb when he is undercover.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 15:14:30 GMT
Ooh...evidently someone got triggered. Good...good...let that hate flow through you...for I love schadenfreude... Psst...Here's a tip:- If you get triggered and tell me to shut up (and you are not my boss or my parent or the police), I am going to respond by provoking you even further. Also, my disagreements with Cassandra is race-gated, not look-gated. I dislike her if I am playing as Lavellan, I do not dislike her if I am playing as the other protagonist, simply because Cassandra believes that Elven faith is a bunch of nonsense, which she does state if you bring her to the Temple of Mythal yet she disapproves of Lavellan being critical of Andrastianism or the Chantry. That's just bigotry. Josephine is the only way to go for straight male Lavellan. The general rule of thumb when it comes to writing romantic content for females, whether it be in books or serials or movies or video games - Always go for drama, woman lap that shit up like a starving kid in Africa laps up food. Its why an overwhelming romance novels and romance movies have the plot, story and characters that they have. Its why there is lots of angst, tears, feels and vag tingles in female romances and why part of a female romance arc involves the guy doing something crazy. Its why Solas is a very popular female Inquisitor romance option even though he is gated and it is why part of Cullen's romance arc involves him going through the very painful process of substance addiction withdrawal. Women lap that shit up - You might not, but an overwhelming amount of them do. Otherwise, you would get stuck with nice guys and well, as one poster stated previously, women find nice guys boring - They are good as dependable husbands but they don't have the vag tingling baggage of bad boy behavior, angst, drama, and feels... Cullen would qualify as a nice guy romance and he's crazy popular with the girls. I do agree with you that a romance with Cassandra as a Lavellan would not work for me. I was furious that there was no option to talk about her hypocrisy, as though only the Andrastian faith is above reproach.
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Toyish Batphone
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 293 Likes: 437
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Post by Toyish Batphone on Oct 8, 2016 15:21:41 GMT
There does seem to be a double standard when it comes to how shallow men and women are. It seems to be more permissible for women. My good fellow, modern Western society is full of double standards against men. This is just one of them. Women watching porn ? Strong, independent and empowered. Men watching porn ? Perverted creeps. Women wanting to stay single ? Strong woman wanting to live an independent life. Men wanting to stay single ? Man up and be a real man, you pussy. Woman divorces a man ? She gets the house, the kids, half of the man's assets and child support. Man divorces a woman ? Get burdened by the loss of the house, kids, half of his assets and child support. Women objectifying men ? Perfectly okay, you go girl ! Men objectifying men ? Muh-soggy-knees who hate wimminz ! Women in wartime - No draft. Men in wartime - Drafted against their will to fight useless politician's schemes under the threat of imprisonment. Female genital mutilation - Evil, barbaric and inhumane. Male genital mutilation - Cue the hordes of morons trying to justify it based on bogus health and outdated religious bullshit. Oh, and the foreskin of a male baby is used in cosmetics that women later end up using. I am not making that up. Men commit the exact same crime as women - Men receive harsher sentencing. It goes on and on and on...
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 15:22:35 GMT
There does seem to be a double standard when it comes to how shallow men and women are. It seems to be more permissible for women. Depends on the context. Women DO judge a LI according to looks but the threads made about their romances are based on story, not appearance. A lot of us are just tired of having to settle for being treated as an afterthought. A lot of us are tired of the drama and heartache that follows heterosexual female stories. Female wardens have to make Alistair sleep with another woman in order to have a happy ending. Try going through that with a female love interest. Zevran starts off trying to kill you. DA2...well, guys went through the same drama as women. But gay guys are shafted even worse than straight women. DAI almost left us with both romance options who lie and have a high chance of dying at the end. Bull can betray you and Blackwall can leave you naked in a barn. No woman wants to be treated the way gaming gives female protagonists. ME3 is an infamous joke how Femshep had more lesbian options than male options. If Kaidan was Virmired and you picked anyone but Garrus, hellooooo solitude....b ...but with Cullen was the happy ending available, as I know. DA2 romances was good, and in all romances had a possible happy end. I was satisfied with Anders and Fenris. I liked Zevran, just was quite annoying, that he flirted with ALL women. ME3: we finally got possible partners, but at the end (probably) Shepard has died...
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 15:30:06 GMT
Yes. If Josephine had a proper sex scene like the one Liara had in Mass Effect, most straight male players would frankly not bother with Cassandra even though her romance story arc makes a lot more sense than Josephine's. I find it odd that the Inquisitor needed to say that he loves Josephine in public to further the romance even though I am sure when Josephine & the Inquisitor were making out, they would have said their "I love you" statements. Contrast this with Cassandra where her romance arc makes sense - You flirt with her, you court her, you sing some raunchy poetry, you have sex with her and you are set with her. I find Blackwall to be the most handsome female romance option. As a straight male, the kind of man that I find handsome-looking is the traditional masculine man - Facial hair, toned body, hairy chest...The whole nine yards (Just look at Henry Cavill from Man of Steel or BvS or Hugh Jackman as Wolverine). Cullen's alright but he is like Dorian in that both of them are pretty, not handsome. Solas is not physically appealing but that's the point - The Dread Wolf is not supposed to stand out like a sore thumb when he is undercover. Ah, ok, then perhaps having the option for sex and one without would be a good balance. Cassandra definitely has her own appeal for others so I can't say if it would be outshined. I'm guessing that Josephine's romance is meant to be like a 1950s American romance. Slow courting and proper steps to go through instead of cut to the chase while Cassandra's is meant to be more passionate. Overall, I agree with you about their appearances, but I seem to be in the minority here.
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Post by phoray on Oct 8, 2016 15:30:42 GMT
Toyish BatphoneThere was my response to you. Then a ---- Then I was talking to OP. I suppose I should change "Shut up" to " I do not sympathize with your supposed plight whatsoever."
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Post by opuspace on Oct 8, 2016 15:32:57 GMT
...but with Cullen was the happy ending available, as I know. DA2 romances was good, and in all romances had a possible happy end. I was satisfied with Anders and Fenris. I liked Zevran, just was quite annoying, that he flirted with ALL women. ME3: we finally got possible partners, but at the end (probably) Shepard has died... That's true, Inquisition was highly unusual for female gamers. I think I'd prefer fair options for everyone over that in the future though. I'm glad you were happy with the outcomes.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 15:43:32 GMT
...but with Cullen was the happy ending available, as I know. DA2 romances was good, and in all romances had a possible happy end. I was satisfied with Anders and Fenris. I liked Zevran, just was quite annoying, that he flirted with ALL women. ME3: we finally got possible partners, but at the end (probably) Shepard has died... That's true, Inquisition was highly unusual for female gamers. I think I'd prefer fair options for everyone over that in the future though. I'm glad you were happy with the outcomes.Not completely, but all in all, I think, the the direction is promising. But still true, everyone can not be satisfied completely.
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Post by eriador117 on Oct 8, 2016 16:39:35 GMT
The only way for gamers to be fairly happy with the romances is for everyone to be bi, but then there'll still be complaints. They're never going to be able to please 100% of people all of the time.
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Post by Faux-Shepard on Oct 8, 2016 20:08:10 GMT
First of all, I could care less about the nice guy thing. Like I said, people are allowed to have their preference. That goes for men and women. If chicks prefer dudes with a backbone as opposed to pussies, that's their business and vice-versa. As for me just "dealing with it" and "shutting up," yeah, that's what I was forced to do. I won't shut up, though. I'm allowed to have an opinion just like you. It's not just Cass' appearance that I find off-putting; I also find her macho, overbearing personality to be unattractive. You like it? Well yeah, that makes sense. You're a girl. You would find those distinctly masculine traits to be attractive, me as a pretty standard straight male...not so much.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 8, 2016 20:21:32 GMT
First of all, I could care less about the nice guy thing. Like I said, people are allowed to have their preference. That goes for men and women. If chicks prefer dudes with a backbone as opposed to pussies, that's their business and vice-versa. As for me just "dealing with it" and "shutting up," yeah, that's what I was forced to do. I won't shut up, though. I'm allowed to have an opinion just like you. It's not just Cass' appearance that I find off-putting; I also find her macho, overbearing personality to be unattractive. You like it? Well yeah, that makes sense. You're a girl. You would find those distinctly masculine traits to be attractive, me as a pretty standard straight male...not so much. I dont understand, she is romantic, she likes to be court her, not "macho"... Yes, she is strong, but this is not problem in her position. Maybe a bit hot-headed (Varric scene), but this also not problem. Sometimes quite sweet, really so many people hate her?
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Post by Faux-Shepard on Oct 8, 2016 20:39:28 GMT
Again, it's fine if you like that kind of woman. I prefer women who are more submissive and cute. Not so authoritative and domineering.
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Post by Artemis on Oct 8, 2016 20:53:54 GMT
Arghgh yes, Cole's another one! Not only is his hair all greasy, but his skin looks funky, and his profile.....!! THE BOY HAS NO CHIN. I mean when I read the book I was envisioning this cute-ish young man, yes, VERY DIRTY, and the unkempt hair I can accept, but he literally looks like a corpse, and slightly inbred one at that lol (Cole ISN'T a corpse; he's a spirit who manifested a physical body; no reason he should look like death warmed over, AND no reason he should be fucking chinless!! I think they literally tried to make him unattractive. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. However, they failed to make me stop loving that boy ) Cole (Compassion) looks exactly how he's supposed to: He looks like Cole, the mage who starved to death. That's why he looks "like a corpse" who hasn't washed his hair and has raggedy clothes. As for why he never changes his look, he says it himself: Dorian: Is this how you want to look?Cole: I want to help. Looking doesn't matter.Cole, the boy, was about 12 when he died. Cole, the spirit, is clearly a young man. Also, there is NO REASON why either Cole has to be butt face ugly. He is chinless with a beak nose. The death warmed over bit is just the icing on the cake. I'm not sure why starved to death is in bold lol Does starving to death cause your chin to be eaten away and your nose to grow three sizes too big? Also, the rest of Cole is clearly not starving to death. His body is, erm, super fit lol So nope, sorry, that excuse don't fly! Welcome to the "Straight Femsheps who didn't like Kaidan in Mass Effect 1" Club. ...and "Gay M!Shep, Who Would Like Kaidan in ME1" Club... *snort* My thoughts exactly! Thank god I didn't play the trilogy until all three games were out. Yet much as I liked Kaidan, I still would have preferred Joker... whom nobody got. So, yeah. It's luck of the draw. Though I'm hopeful that with Gaider gone all the sexual stereotypes will hopefully disappear.
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lynroy
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Thief
Current Location: Iowa
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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The3tWits
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Post by lynroy on Oct 8, 2016 21:01:15 GMT
First of all, I could care less about the nice guy thing. Like I said, people are allowed to have their preference. That goes for men and women. If chicks prefer dudes with a backbone as opposed to pussies, that's their business and vice-versa. As for me just "dealing with it" and "shutting up," yeah, that's what I was forced to do. I won't shut up, though. I'm allowed to have an opinion just like you. It's not just Cass' appearance that I find off-putting; I also find her macho, overbearing personality to be unattractive. You like it? Well yeah, that makes sense. You're a girl. You would find those distinctly masculine traits to be attractive, me as a pretty standard straight male...not so much. Please, continue to care less. BTW, it's couldn't care less for future reference. And what does being a woman have to do with finding Cass's 'masculine traits' attractive? I'm a woman and I don't find Cass attractive at all, personality, traits or looks. (note: I am not knocking your opinion on Cass or your personal preferences)
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