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Post by cmdrshep2183 on Jun 3, 2018 9:46:25 GMT
In Andromeda you can tell Suvi you believe in a higher power or not.
Compared to ME1 here at 5:58 you have more choices.
Why didn't Bioware give your Scott Ryder a choice to say that it is a sentient right to believe in a higher power or not?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 11:05:43 GMT
Not enough senior writers + nowhere near enough time to make the game = shitty dialogue.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 11:05:57 GMT
Double post *sigh*
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Post by natetrace on Jun 3, 2018 11:12:56 GMT
Well, either you do or you don't. Even in 1 it's the same two options just different ways of saying it. The only difference I think was in 1 there was more exposition on Ashley and you could tell her to just be quiet and keep it to herself.
I would have commented on the Reddit post about this conversation, but I'll do it here instead 😁
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 3, 2018 12:34:23 GMT
There are only so many lines of dialogue they can record for the game. People bitched and moaned about not enough banter and how it worked in Inquisition, so they recorded more banter. Now people want more choices when it comes to conversations. There are limits to what they can do for a video game and things need to be sacrificed to try and appease the people that do nothing but pick things apart.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 3, 2018 13:46:06 GMT
Ah yes take one specific example and generalize it.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 3, 2018 14:00:42 GMT
There are only so many lines of dialogue they can record for the game. People bitched and moaned about not enough banter and how it worked in Inquisition, so they recorded more banter. Now people want more choices when it comes to conversations. There are limits to what they can do for a video game and things need to be sacrificed to try and appease the people that do nothing but pick things apart. Damned if you do....
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Post by sil on Jun 3, 2018 18:27:36 GMT
There were more options in ME:A than ME3.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 3, 2018 18:40:17 GMT
I couldn’t be more diplomatic with Wrex about the genophage in ME1. I either disagree that there’s a difference between its deployment and the Turians’ skirmish with the humans.....or I disagree that there’s a difference between its deployment and the Turians’ skirmish with the humans.
I have no choice but to have Wrex call Shepard ignorant when anyone with a reasonably up to date history book in the Alliance should know the difference. For me this instance was way more aggravating if I wanted to play a more educated character.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 3, 2018 18:45:33 GMT
Not enough senior writers + nowhere near enough time to make the game = shitty dialogue. If MEA did the false options of ME1, or the long stretches of autodialogue of ME3, it would undoubtedly be ripped apart for it.
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Post by Phantom on Jun 3, 2018 19:11:53 GMT
quality over quantity is key here. Players like myself love choices but more quality of choices.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 3, 2018 19:16:29 GMT
Not enough senior writers + nowhere near enough time to make the game = shitty dialogue. If MEA did the false options of ME1, or the long stretches of autodialogue of ME3, it would undoubtedly be ripped apart for it. As much as I love ME3 I must say I did miss not having as many dialogue choices as before. Each game did it differently. Like they couldn’t find the right balance. Imo MEA did it perfectly.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 3, 2018 19:40:58 GMT
Why didn't they do fewer? They made the choices they did because generally they are the professionals and know what they are doing.
I personally have messed with dialogue trees trying to write for both Inquisition and Andromeda for practice and let me tell you when you have to write all your options every time it's a bitch and a half. Being able to occasionally get away with only two options when it's called for is easier and I imagine that trickles down to the whole team.
Plus it's often better for RP too.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 3, 2018 19:45:40 GMT
There were more options in ME:A than ME3. DAI still did it better.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Jun 3, 2018 21:10:39 GMT
There were more options in ME:A than ME3. DAI still did it better. Pros and cons, but one thing that MEA did great was basing the responses on intent as opposed to tone.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 3, 2018 22:19:20 GMT
There were more options in ME:A than ME3. DAI still did it better. All of DA’s dialogue from Origins onward was done better.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jun 3, 2018 22:32:02 GMT
Because it costs more money first and foremost.
Second a lot of those dialogue "choices" in ME1 are word scrambles in the dialogue leading up to sex scene with Liara there is option where the first two options are the same sentence minus ONE single word and it doesn't change the meaning of what Shepard says it's just one single word shorter. There is no real difference in either the vocal performance of Mark Meer or Jennifer Hale as well. It's just a stupid way to give the player the illusion of choice and IMHO it doesn't do that right.
Also how many different ways can you say the same thing it's all means the same thing: Option 1: "I believe in God." Option 2: "I don't believe in God."
Ryder tells Suvi that she either believes or doesn't believe in God. Allowing the player to play as a believer or as an atheist. Sara Ryder can still romance Suvi even if she's an atheist, and the only difference is some of the emails Suvi sends you about the "debates" they have. It's not like Ryder tries to convert the angara to Christianity/Judaism/Islam or anything like that. The whole religion/atheist thing only comes up when talking to Suvi about her beliefs.
Now I would prefer the "I don't know if there is a God or not, I just do the things I do because I feel and believe that they're right things to do. I deal with the afterlife if and/or when I get there." as a true agnostic option, but then again I don't need a video game to validate my spiritual beliefs either.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 4, 2018 6:49:11 GMT
Because it costs more money first and foremost. Second a lot of those dialogue "choices" in ME1 are word scrambles in the dialogue leading up to sex scene with Liara there is option where the first two options are the same sentence minus ONE single word and it doesn't change the meaning of what Shepard says it's just one single word shorter. There is no real difference in either the vocal performance of Mark Meer or Jennifer Hale as well. It's just a stupid way to give the player the illusion of choice and IMHO it doesn't do that right. Also how many different ways can you say the same thing it's all means the same thing: Option 1: "I believe in God." Option 2: "I don't believe in God." Ryder tells Suvi that she either believes or doesn't believe in God. Allowing the player to play as a believer or as an atheist. Sara Ryder can still romance Suvi even if she's an atheist, and the only difference is some of the emails Suvi sends you about the "debates" they have. It's not like Ryder tries to convert the angara to Christianity/Judaism/Islam or anything like that. The whole religion/atheist thing only comes up when talking to Suvi about her beliefs. Now I would prefer the "I don't know if there is a God or not, I just do the things I do because I feel and believe that they're right things to do. I deal with the afterlife if and/or when I get there." as a true agnostic option, but then again I don't need a video game to validate my spiritual beliefs either. I feel the same way, now the thing is I bet BioWare would have then just flagged that response as "I don't believe" and then people would be upset that both paths are identical expect for the initial choice.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 4, 2018 16:54:47 GMT
Why didn't Bioware give your Scott Ryder a choice to say that it is a sentient right to believe in a higher power or not? Because you weren't there to tell them what to right. Get a job there and fix that for the next ME game, okay?
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Post by guanxi on Jun 4, 2018 18:23:30 GMT
They had 5 years ultimately not 18 months... it begs the question what on earth were the writing team doing for 3/4 of that time?
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Post by azarhal on Jun 4, 2018 18:51:50 GMT
They had 5 years... what were the writing team doing for 3/4 of that time? Not working on MEA...most of them were not available until 2015. These are MEA credited writers: John Dombrow (Lead, joined in 2015), Chris Schlerf (officially announced as the Lead Writer in 2014, left in 2015) Cathleen Rootsaert (Lead) Joanna Berry Ann Lemay Neil Pollner Sheryl Chee (was on DAI and its DLCs) Lukas Kristjanson (was on DAI and its DLCs) Hall Hood (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Samantha Wallschlaeger (SWTOR) Courtney Woods (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Jay Watamaniuk (Anthem lead writer since 2012...) Joanna Berry, Ann Lemay and Neil Pollner might have worked on other stuff too, I can't find all of the SWTOR expac and DAI DLCs credits list. Cathleen Rootsaert is co-lead on Anthem with Jay, but I have no idea when she joined.
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Post by river82 on Jun 4, 2018 20:35:37 GMT
They had 5 years... what were the writing team doing for 3/4 of that time? Not working on MEA...most of them were not available until 2015. These are MEA credited writers: John Dombrow (Lead, joined in 2015), Chris Schlerf (officially announced as the Lead Writer in 2014, left in 2015) Cathleen Rootsaert (Lead) Joanna Berry Ann Lemay Neil Pollner Sheryl Chee (was on DAI and its DLCs) Lukas Kristjanson (was on DAI and its DLCs) Hall Hood (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Samantha Wallschlaeger (SWTOR) Courtney Woods (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Jay Watamaniuk (Anthem lead writer since 2012...) Joanna Berry, Ann Lemay and Neil Pollner might have worked on other stuff too, I can't find all of the SWTOR expac and DAI DLCs credits list. Cathleen Rootsaert is co-lead on Anthem with Jay, but I have no idea when she joined. The story in particular wasn't where it needed to be, four sources said, because the creative team had spent so much time talking about high-level ideas during pre-production. Many of those core ideas had persisted, like the main character, Ryder; SAM, the artificial intelligence that melds with Ryder; and the final sequence on Meridian. But most of the quests and dialogue needed to be designed and written. "What you see [in the final game] is writing that has been done in the past two years rather than the full five years of writing," said a developer on the game. "The writing team — writing the characters and everything — was unleashed too late, just because of too many discussions about the high-level direction."- Jason Schreier, Dec 2017
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 4, 2018 23:24:55 GMT
Not working on MEA...most of them were not available until 2015. These are MEA credited writers: John Dombrow (Lead, joined in 2015), Chris Schlerf (officially announced as the Lead Writer in 2014, left in 2015) Cathleen Rootsaert (Lead) Joanna Berry Ann Lemay Neil Pollner Sheryl Chee (was on DAI and its DLCs) Lukas Kristjanson (was on DAI and its DLCs) Hall Hood (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Samantha Wallschlaeger (SWTOR) Courtney Woods (SWTOR and worked on at least one DAI DLC) Jay Watamaniuk (Anthem lead writer since 2012...) Joanna Berry, Ann Lemay and Neil Pollner might have worked on other stuff too, I can't find all of the SWTOR expac and DAI DLCs credits list. Cathleen Rootsaert is co-lead on Anthem with Jay, but I have no idea when she joined. The story in particular wasn't where it needed to be, four sources said, because the creative team had spent so much time talking about high-level ideas during pre-production. Many of those core ideas had persisted, like the main character, Ryder; SAM, the artificial intelligence that melds with Ryder; and the final sequence on Meridian. But most of the quests and dialogue needed to be designed and written. "What you see [in the final game] is writing that has been done in the past two years rather than the full five years of writing," said a developer on the game. "The writing team — writing the characters and everything — was unleashed too late, just because of too many discussions about the high-level direction."- Jason Schreier, Dec 2017 He’s a hack.
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Post by river82 on Jun 4, 2018 23:31:30 GMT
The story in particular wasn't where it needed to be, four sources said, because the creative team had spent so much time talking about high-level ideas during pre-production. Many of those core ideas had persisted, like the main character, Ryder; SAM, the artificial intelligence that melds with Ryder; and the final sequence on Meridian. But most of the quests and dialogue needed to be designed and written. "What you see [in the final game] is writing that has been done in the past two years rather than the full five years of writing," said a developer on the game. "The writing team — writing the characters and everything — was unleashed too late, just because of too many discussions about the high-level direction."- Jason Schreier, Dec 2017 He’s a hack. He was right.
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Post by griffith82 on Jun 5, 2018 0:11:54 GMT
Maybe. He was still a gigantic jerk.
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