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Post by Iakus on Jun 16, 2018 21:05:31 GMT
What backfired in Inquisition was, interestingly, showing a siege in Crestwood that never happened. Combat mechanics that never made it in the game. Because everything that appears in Pre-Alpha footage should be expected to appear in the actual game?
The Pax Prime demonstration where the Siege of Crestwood was showcased was repeatedly called a "Demo" by the developers. At no point did anyone promise those things would appear in the final game, only that these were things they wanted to have or were testing out.
The primary purpose of that footage was a proof-of-concept to showcase how Inquisition would look and play in the (then new) Frostbite engine, showcase the return of the tactical camera and demonstrate the scope of the maps by pointing out how Crestwood alone was "bigger than all of DA2 put together".
Yeah, it sucks that some of the mechanics weren't in the final game. The Venatori and Red Templars attempting to retake keeps would have made them far more threatening, having more dynamic story opportunities (like "pulling a Redcliffe") would have been fun to explore and let us roleplay as more morally complex Inquisitors.
Some of the stuff they showcased in early Alpha's were probably best left on the cutting room floor though. Equipment deterioration is a prime example, as it would have quickly become frustrating for many players to constantly have to repair their gear between battles.
I could see that mechanic having made camps/keeps more useful, if you could repair your gear at each (50% at camp, 100% at Keeps), as it would have given you more incentive to set them up across the map and ensure you hold the Keep in that area. But even if I was a developer and could get that mechanic working perfectly, I still couldn't justify keeping it if I had to cut extraneous features from the game. And like I said, I'm not looking for gameplay, I'm looking for Story. Something to calm the fears of the traditional Bioware guard, to assure them that this is more than a generic looter-shooter.
Because so far, that's ALL they've shown. As they tell us there are no companions or romances (other Bioware staples). What do they leave us with but Iron Man suits and pretty landscapes?
Where's the dialogue? Where's the storyline? Where's the NPCs?
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 16, 2018 21:12:11 GMT
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game? Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet?
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Post by Iakus on Jun 16, 2018 21:20:25 GMT
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game? Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet? That doesn't answer the question.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 16, 2018 21:25:22 GMT
Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet? That doesn't answer the question.
Sure it does. You said yourself that you’re looking at story, which they haven’t revealed much of, presumably you’ll want to actually see what sort of story they’ll be serving up?
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Post by Iakus on Jun 16, 2018 21:31:16 GMT
That doesn't answer the question.
Sure it does. You said yourself that you’re looking at story, which they haven’t revealed much of, presumably you’ll want to actually see what sort of story they’ll be serving up? More than that.
They insist this is game still has "classic Bioware features"
Well, where are they? All they've shown us is how it ISN'T one! And I'm certainly not the only one to notice this.
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Post by bshep on Jun 16, 2018 21:32:43 GMT
Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet? That doesn't answer the question.
It does. It just not the answer you desired. They have gone out of the way to avoid giving story spoilers so far.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 16, 2018 21:35:40 GMT
Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet? That doesn't answer the question.
The biggest proportion of DA, ME and KOTOR games are combat. If story is your only interest the story trailer will come. DAI's first story trailer dropped 6 months pre-launch. MEA's first story trailer dropped 5 months pre-launch. There a whole sub-forum forum you can read for answers to your question Mark Darrah's given about 100+ answers in tweets over the last 3 days to explain why people might like it. I respect that you may consider that every aspect of this game is the spawn of Beelzebub, but for a game you seem to have little interest in playing, is it really necessary to harang people about how shit it is on seemingly every page of the forum?
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Post by helios969 on Jun 16, 2018 21:37:13 GMT
Perhaps because there's 8 months to launch and they haven't shared the story/character content yet? That doesn't answer the question.
Maybe you shouldn't if all your looking for is the same-ol' same ol'. I feel pretty good that at worst I'll get a decent story with interesting characters to interact with and fun combat. If you need more than that go ahead and skip it.
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Post by river82 on Jun 16, 2018 22:30:36 GMT
With regards to the Inquisition demo: Demos don't have to give the gamer a 100% accurate representation of what's in the final game, and actually a demo doesn't even have to be a part of the final game. What a demo does is give the player a feel of how the actual game will be. And that was the problem. Because the demo of Inquisition included a lot of strategy, tactics, and choices that were removed from Inquisition. So while the demo painted Inquisition to be semi strategic (Crestwood under attack what do I do, how do I keep my armour repaired) what we got in the final game was anything but. It was a little like false advertising, to be honest. I'd rather Bioware not release a demo than release one that isn't representative of the actual game. I remember being excited about the possibilities of this aspect of gameplay. Oh how naive I was ...
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 16, 2018 22:55:59 GMT
With regards to the Inquisition demo: Demos don't have to give the gamer a 100% accurate representation of what's in the final game, and actually a demo doesn't even have to be a part of the final game. What a demo does is give the player a feel of how the actual game will be. And that was the problem. Because the demo of Inquisition included a lot of strategy, tactics, and choices that were removed from Inquisition. So while the demo painted Inquisition to be semi strategic (Crestwood under attack what do I do, how do I keep my armour repaired) what we got in the final game was anything but. It was a little like false advertising, to be honest. I'd rather Bioware not release a demo than release one that isn't representative of the actual game. I remember being excited about the possibilities of this aspect of gameplay. Oh how naive I was ... It wasn’t false advertising, or at least it wasn’t intended to be. Bioware intended to put that stuff in the game, (they didn’t have a working build where this stuff dynamically existed in the game, it was a mock up, nothing was taken out that was already in) but weren’t able to due to the technical limitations of the older consoles if I recall correctly. I’ve always felt it’s unfair to the developers to treat it like false advertising.
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Post by river82 on Jun 16, 2018 22:59:33 GMT
I’ve always felt it’s unfair to the developers to treat it like false advertising. True, that's why I didn't call it false advertising but rather said it was a little like it. It was similar because it was misleading, and created a false impression, but I realise the devs didn't intend for that.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 16, 2018 23:06:54 GMT
That doesn't answer the question.
The biggest proportion of DA, ME and KOTOR games are combat. If story is your only interest the story trailer will come. DAI's first story trailer dropped 6 months pre-launch. MEA's first story trailer dropped 5 months pre-launch. There a whole sub-forum forum you can read for answers to your question Mark Darrah's given about 100+ answers in tweets over the last 3 days to explain why people might like it. I respect that you may consider that every aspect of this game is the spawn of Beelzebub, but for a game you seem to have little interest in playing, is it really necessary to harang people about how shit it is on seemingly every page of the forum? Story is my main concern, yes. But again, what we've been shown thus far is entirely how Anthem is going to be "different" from previous Bioware games. Nothing about how it's similar. Given MEA's lukewarm reception, early reports of how Anthem "isn't really an RPG at all" and such, you can understand the concern, yes? Perhaps part of the problem is they don't do the Bethesda thing with fallout and not announce anything until five months before launch. Instead they announce a game a year and a half ahead of time and let the audience stew. Kind of a d*ck move if you ask me. And I'm not haranguing anyone, save perhaps Bioware's marketing department. And for that matter isn't this very thread supposed to be about "negative reactions to Anthem on forums" I stay away from the hype thread, the coop thread, and such. I think I should be free to post here, the skepticism thread, the twitter thread, etc. Heck I think I spend more time on the Other Games section than here! Believe me if they announced DA4, I'd rather be there.
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Post by bshep on Jun 17, 2018 0:07:44 GMT
Except there is no people from Bioware's marketing department around here to harangue across said areas...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 17, 2018 6:20:15 GMT
The biggest proportion of DA, ME and KOTOR games are combat. If story is your only interest the story trailer will come. DAI's first story trailer dropped 6 months pre-launch. MEA's first story trailer dropped 5 months pre-launch. There a whole sub-forum forum you can read for answers to your question Mark Darrah's given about 100+ answers in tweets over the last 3 days to explain why people might like it. I respect that you may consider that every aspect of this game is the spawn of Beelzebub, but for a game you seem to have little interest in playing, is it really necessary to harang people about how shit it is on seemingly every page of the forum? Story is my main concern, yes. But again, what we've been shown thus far is entirely how Anthem is going to be "different" from previous Bioware games. Nothing about how it's similar. Given MEA's lukewarm reception, early reports of how Anthem "isn't really an RPG at all" and such, you can understand the concern, yes? Perhaps part of the problem is they don't do the Bethesda thing with fallout and not announce anything until five months before launch. Instead they announce a game a year and a half ahead of time and let the audience stew. Kind of a d*ck move if you ask me. And I'm not haranguing anyone, save perhaps Bioware's marketing department. And for that matter isn't this very thread supposed to be about "negative reactions to Anthem on forums" I stay away from the hype thread, the coop thread, and such. I think I should be free to post here, the skepticism thread, the twitter thread, etc. Heck I think I spend more time on the Other Games section than here! Believe me if they announced DA4, I'd rather be there. That's fair. If you detected a little saltiness in my tone, it was because I felt somewhat badgered into giving you an answer you wanted rather than an answer I gave. I found that a little frustrating. I know you are a sincere poster even if we've often debated from quite different perspectives over the years.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 17, 2018 6:27:11 GMT
With regards to the Inquisition demo: Demos don't have to give the gamer a 100% accurate representation of what's in the final game, and actually a demo doesn't even have to be a part of the final game. What a demo does is give the player a feel of how the actual game will be.
And that was the problem.
Because the demo of Inquisition included a lot of strategy, tactics, and choices that were removed from Inquisition. So while the demo painted Inquisition to be semi strategic (Crestwood under attack what do I do, how do I keep my armour repaired) what we got in the final game was anything but.
It was a little like false advertising, to be honest. I'd rather Bioware not release a demo than release one that isn't representative of the actual game.
I asked Mike Laidlaw for his recollection of that demo. He was good enough to share this answer: Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw - Jun 9 [2018]Replying to @bsnforums "Oh? Yeah, we showed it on stage to something like 4,000 people at a PAX. We knew it would get filmed, but it wasn't official, but we didn't mind too much. You can't share a "secret" with that many people. Shame we could not finish those systems. Older consoles were tricky."
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Post by correctamundo on Jun 17, 2018 8:32:40 GMT
Because everything that appears in Pre-Alpha footage should be expected to appear in the actual game?
The Pax Prime demonstration where the Siege of Crestwood was showcased was repeatedly called a "Demo" by the developers. At no point did anyone promise those things would appear in the final game, only that these were things they wanted to have or were testing out.
The primary purpose of that footage was a proof-of-concept to showcase how Inquisition would look and play in the (then new) Frostbite engine, showcase the return of the tactical camera and demonstrate the scope of the maps by pointing out how Crestwood alone was "bigger than all of DA2 put together".
Yeah, it sucks that some of the mechanics weren't in the final game. The Venatori and Red Templars attempting to retake keeps would have made them far more threatening, having more dynamic story opportunities (like "pulling a Redcliffe") would have been fun to explore and let us roleplay as more morally complex Inquisitors.
Some of the stuff they showcased in early Alpha's were probably best left on the cutting room floor though. Equipment deterioration is a prime example, as it would have quickly become frustrating for many players to constantly have to repair their gear between battles.
I could see that mechanic having made camps/keeps more useful, if you could repair your gear at each (50% at camp, 100% at Keeps), as it would have given you more incentive to set them up across the map and ensure you hold the Keep in that area. But even if I was a developer and could get that mechanic working perfectly, I still couldn't justify keeping it if I had to cut extraneous features from the game. And like I said, I'm not looking for gameplay, I'm looking for Story. Something to calm the fears of the traditional Bioware guard, to assure them that this is more than a generic looter-shooter.
Because so far, that's ALL they've shown. As they tell us there are no companions or romances (other Bioware staples). What do they leave us with but Iron Man suits and pretty landscapes?
Where's the dialogue? Where's the storyline? Where's the NPCs?
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game?
That is just disengenouos hyperbole. For as long as I have been on the BSNany you have been complaining that Bioware shows too much skin in sex scenes, and that even the romances as such may take up too much resources, and that they should go away from romances all together. So they do and what do you do? Complain that there is no romances in the game. The game has companions, just not AI ones in the field. The AI companions are in the Strider and the Fort. I sincerely doubt that you are unaware of this by now. They have also been very clear the on that there are no romances in the game at launch but that there are fully equivalent friendship arches instead. That can even come across as borderline romantic - but no sex.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 17, 2018 14:36:51 GMT
And like I said, I'm not looking for gameplay, I'm looking for Story. Something to calm the fears of the traditional Bioware guard, to assure them that this is more than a generic looter-shooter.
Because so far, that's ALL they've shown. As they tell us there are no companions or romances (other Bioware staples). What do they leave us with but Iron Man suits and pretty landscapes?
Where's the dialogue? Where's the storyline? Where's the NPCs?
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game?
That is just disengenouos hyperbole. For as long as I have been on the BSNany you have been complaining that Bioware shows too much skin in sex scenes, and that even the romances as such may take up too much resources, and that they should go away from romances all together. So they do and what do you do? Complain that there is no romances in the game. The game has companions, just not AI ones in the field. The AI companions are in the Strider and the Fort. I sincerely doubt that you are unaware of this by now. They have also been very clear the on that there are no romances in the game at launch but that there are fully equivalent friendship arches instead. That can even come across as borderline romantic - but no sex. Wait, what!? Seriously? Okay, I'm going to assume you have me mixed up with someone else... For the record, I have NEVER said that romances should be done away with. Quite the opposite, I LIKE the romances. What I DON'T like is the increasing focus on romances being little more than a few flirts and a (increasingly graphic) sex scene. IMO, that makes the romances shallow hook-ups rather than an unfolding side-story in the game. A good romance, imo, encompasses many conversations and activities scattered throughout the game. It's a story, not a quest. If Bioware is taking lessons from The Witcher, I think that's one of the wrong lessons to learn. I do think sex scenes should be: 1) optional and 2) skippable, if graphic sex isn't your thing. And ideally even limited to fade-to-black if you want to save on resources. Which leads me to MEA, where I found it hilarious, though not in a "ha-ha" way, that such attention to detail was given to the sex scenes when there were such widespread failures in other, more important graphic features, such as Addison's "tired face" and the copy/paste asari heads. As for no companions, yeah that is complete fail as far as I'm concerned. And I won't apologize for having that opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 17:41:01 GMT
With regards to the Inquisition demo: Demos don't have to give the gamer a 100% accurate representation of what's in the final game, and actually a demo doesn't even have to be a part of the final game. What a demo does is give the player a feel of how the actual game will be.
And that was the problem.
Because the demo of Inquisition included a lot of strategy, tactics, and choices that were removed from Inquisition. So while the demo painted Inquisition to be semi strategic (Crestwood under attack what do I do, how do I keep my armour repaired) what we got in the final game was anything but.
It was a little like false advertising, to be honest. I'd rather Bioware not release a demo than release one that isn't representative of the actual game.
I asked Mike Laidlaw for his recollection of that demo. He was good enough to share this answer: Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw - Jun 9 [2018]Replying to @bsnforums "Oh? Yeah, we showed it on stage to something like 4,000 people at a PAX. We knew it would get filmed, but it wasn't official, but we didn't mind too much. You can't share a "secret" with that many people. Shame we could not finish those systems. Older consoles were tricky." dun recall repyling to anthem. I am positively optimistic. just not into the lore or all. dat way i can get a fresh start. but i guess my 3 years old pc wun make da game. costed bout 3000 US but I need my money for my BA and my new car. so dun tag me on games dat are just hype atm.
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Post by Steelcan on Jun 17, 2018 19:40:17 GMT
The biggest proportion of DA, ME and KOTOR games are combat. If story is your only interest the story trailer will come. DAI's first story trailer dropped 6 months pre-launch. MEA's first story trailer dropped 5 months pre-launch. There a whole sub-forum forum you can read for answers to your question Mark Darrah's given about 100+ answers in tweets over the last 3 days to explain why people might like it. I respect that you may consider that every aspect of this game is the spawn of Beelzebub, but for a game you seem to have little interest in playing, is it really necessary to harang people about how shit it is on seemingly every page of the forum? Story is my main concern, yes. But again, what we've been shown thus far is entirely how Anthem is going to be "different" from previous Bioware games. Nothing about how it's similar. Given MEA's lukewarm reception, early reports of how Anthem "isn't really an RPG at all" and such, you can understand the concern, yes? Perhaps part of the problem is they don't do the Bethesda thing with fallout and not announce anything until five months before launch. Instead they announce a game a year and a half ahead of time and let the audience stew. Kind of a d*ck move if you ask me. And I'm not haranguing anyone, save perhaps Bioware's marketing department. And for that matter isn't this very thread supposed to be about "negative reactions to Anthem on forums" I stay away from the hype thread, the coop thread, and such. I think I should be free to post here, the skepticism thread, the twitter thread, etc. Heck I think I spend more time on the Other Games section than here! Believe me if they announced DA4, I'd rather be there. Im willing to bet that this is in part intentional. We knew when ME:A and DA:I were revealed we'd get details on romances, characters, and so on in the build up to release, in DA:I's case perhaps too much. However there was never a concern that we wouldn't see that kind of information at some point. Anthem does not have such a guarantee in place. Given the rather circumspect details that we have been given on non-combat related parts of the game, I have a sinking feeling that BioWare realises that they are not up to par with their previous offerinngs. So they're instead opting for vagueries. Admittedly I'm a rather pessimistic fellow and we are still a far way out from release, but I can't shake the feeling that BioWare knows what they have to offer storywise isn't going to excite, so trying to downplay expectations in that arena, and that of characters, is an effort to keep the discussion on matters that they're more willing to show off.
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Post by patriciachr34 on Jun 18, 2018 23:57:49 GMT
And like I said, I'm not looking for gameplay, I'm looking for Story. Something to calm the fears of the traditional Bioware guard, to assure them that this is more than a generic looter-shooter.
Because so far, that's ALL they've shown. As they tell us there are no companions or romances (other Bioware staples). What do they leave us with but Iron Man suits and pretty landscapes?
Where's the dialogue? Where's the storyline? Where's the NPCs?
Why should a fan of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, or KOTOR take a second look at this game?
These are my questions as well. That being said, Bioware's strength has always been it's story telling. If the story telling is as strong in Anthem as it is in other Bioware offerings, then I will force myself to leave my introvert's shell, and party with strangers so I can truly enjoy the story.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 24, 2018 18:07:27 GMT
I was sharing a conversation with a dev [who does not work for BioWare] about how BSN (to them) appeared to be a forum full of, well let's say that they were reminded of the AskAGameDev article about online forums, in which forum members are described as often being 'trolls and zealots'. This remark was caused by their disappointment in what they perceived was a strongly negative reaction to Anthem on this forum.
Do you feel that's true? I'm seeing both positive and negative reactions (and a fair amount of 'don't knows') What relationship does and should a 'fan' gaming community have with its respective game studio? What duty does a fan forum have to screen out any negative opinion (if any)? 'Fans' and devs are welcome to share their perspectives on this discussion as they like. * please note * I'm not referencing the individual I chatted with because they are entitled to their view, it's the principle we're discussing (unless they wish to pop in). Let's be responsible, people. Well if they haven't screwing up ME:A and stop being so incompetent, self-entitled, and stop being egotistical they would never have the problems that they face today. And as far as I'm concerned the negative reactions of Anthem should be a wake up call and a reminder not to screw up royally like they did with ME:A.
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Post by bshep on Jun 24, 2018 18:28:25 GMT
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 24, 2018 18:41:29 GMT
if BioWare employees paid much attention to this forum (and I don't think they do), then they might well find it disheartening. But I don't care. Nothing they've shown me of Anthem makes me want to buy it, and that's all I have to say when it comes up in conversation. A big part of that reason is the fact that I play on console, and now all the consoles require you to pay a subscription fee in order to access multiplayer features in most games. Making Anthem a multiplayer game means I have to pay additional money every month in order to access its core features, on top of the $90-$100AUS that it's already going to cost.
If BioWare is "disheartened" by the fact that I refuse to do that, then tough shit, they should've said something when console manufacturers instituted this blatantly anti-consumer, anti-developer practice. Or they could pay for my PS Plus subscription. That'll work.
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Post by General Mahad on Jun 25, 2018 16:11:36 GMT
I would also like to point out that BioWare shut down old BSN and tried to cover it up with a piss poor excuse of there being more social media to use and connect with fans.
If they do feel disheartened reading this forum, maybe they shouldn't have nuked their moderated forum and tried to lie about their reasoning.
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Post by cloud9 on Jun 26, 2018 7:12:52 GMT
I would also like to point out that BioWare shut down old BSN and tried to cover it up with a piss poor excuse of there being more social media to use and connect with fans.
If they do feel disheartened reading this forum, maybe they shouldn't have nuked their moderated forum and tried to lie about their reasoning. BioWare are bunch of snowflakes. They can't tell the difference between criticism and toxicity? No wonder they're sucking making games now.
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