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Post by Steelcan on Jun 12, 2018 17:54:19 GMT
When you think BioWare - you think about amazing single player RPG. It was like that for years. Personally i don't play much MMO or MP games - and i really don't like all those Mech's BioWare returns to its roots (Shattered Steel, 1996) Though I can certainly respect that not every player likes every game a studio makes, if the game format alters. Roll on Dragon Age 4, and judging by Casey's comments, more Mass Effect in the long term. Its not just the game format being altered, its a radical departure from the norm at a time when many fans are skeptical of BioWare's continued existence
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 12, 2018 18:05:27 GMT
I'm reminded of where we were in the summer of 2014. Early Dragon Age Inquisition trailers were dropping to broadly positive reactions against a backdrop of comments along the line of 'what color ending will this game have?'As the year progressed and more news emerged, the complaints lessened and the game launched to a popular response. Today I'm still seeing a lot of negativity fuelled by MEA and BFII. I think that will fade somewhat if information releases continue to be solid and interesting.
IF.
I know quite a lot of gamers, especially those we played similiar titles as i did /ME, DA, Kotor, Elder Scrolls, Deus Ex etc/ and i have to admit that none of them is interested in Anthem - not at all. Of course they will find a lot of new players, who will be very happy to buy Anthem, but older fanbase ? Maybe we are just too old, or maybe a lot of us doesn't wanna follow "new direction" - not only BW, but gaming overall.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 12, 2018 18:26:04 GMT
but older fanbase ? Maybe we are just too old Personally, I don't buy that there's a baked-in age factor, I'm early-50's and I'm loving modern gaming, doing things I could never do on my Commodore 64... You're only as old as the games you play.
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Jun 12, 2018 18:35:29 GMT
but older fanbase ? Maybe we are just too old Personally, I don't buy that there's a baked-in age factor, I'm early-50's and I'm loving modern gaming, doing things I could never do on my Commodore 64... You're only as old as the games you play. I'm almost 40, been playing since i was 16, but modern gaming... well, from time to time we have some small diamonds released here and there, but year by year there are less and less diamonds. I really miss that feeling, when i was counting days, hours and minutes until some of the titles been released - ME3 or W3 for example...
Not long time ago been playing NieR Automata - couldn't finish, literally one step from the end of 3rd playthrough... and somehow i completely lost interest, like with most of the modern games. Then i go back to SWTOR... and i finished 4 storylines one after another !
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 18:48:10 GMT
I'm interested enough in the game that I'll try the demo, so I seem to be in the minority who think the game has potential. If it messes too much with my motion-sickness though, I'm going to have to give it a hard pass.
I can't play a lot of games I'd otherwise like, even with head bob and such turned off. Witcher made me nauseous even though I messed with FOV and various settings. One of the reasons I'm afraid DA4 might move away from the style of DA:I, because of Anthem, is that I can't do first-person stuff. All of Bioware's past games that I've tried out have been accessible for me, so that is part of why I am wary, but hopeful.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 12, 2018 18:50:23 GMT
I'm interested enough in the game that I'll try the demo, so I seem to be in the minority who think the game has potential. If it messes too much with my motion-sickness though, I'm going to have to give it a hard pass. I can't play a lot of games I'd otherwise like, even with head bob and such turned off. Witcher made me nauseous even though I messed with FOV and various settings. One of the reasons I'm afraid DA4 might move away from the style of DA:I, because of Anthem, is that I can't do first-person stuff. All of Bioware's past games that I've tried out have been accessible for me, so that is part of why I am wary, but hopeful. This might reassure you a bit.
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Post by linksocarina on Jun 12, 2018 18:51:29 GMT
When you think BioWare - you think about amazing single player RPG. It was like that for years. Personally i don't play much MMO or MP games - and i really don't like all those Mech's BioWare returns to its roots (Shattered Steel, 1996) Though I can certainly respect that not every player likes every game a studio makes, if the game format alters. Roll on Dragon Age 4, and judging by Casey's comments, more Mass Effect in the long term. You just gave me an idea for a satire article...
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 12, 2018 18:52:32 GMT
'm almost 40, been playing since i was 16, but modern gaming... well, from time to time we have some small diamonds released here and there, but year by year there are less and less diamonds. I really miss that feeling, when i was counting days, hours and minutes until some of the titles been released - ME3 or W3 for example...
Not long time ago been playing NieR Automata - couldn't finish, literally one step from the end of 3rd playthrough... and somehow i completely lost interest, like with most of the modern games. Then i go back to SWTOR... and i finished 4 storylines one after another ! Perhaps I'm regressing to childhood. That phase is still ahead of you then...
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Post by bshep on Jun 12, 2018 18:57:25 GMT
People change with time(both physically and emotionally), so it is not a surprise some of their interest also changes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2018 21:07:14 GMT
I'm reminded of where we were in the summer of 2014. Early Dragon Age Inquisition trailers were dropping to broadly positive reactions against a backdrop of comments along the line of 'what color ending will this game have?'As the year progressed and more news emerged, the complaints lessened and the game launched to a popular response. Today I'm still seeing a lot of negativity fuelled by MEA and BFII. I think that will fade somewhat if information releases continue to be solid and interesting.
IF.
I know quite a lot of gamers, especially those we played similiar titles as i did /ME, DA, Kotor, Elder Scrolls, Deus Ex etc/ and i have to admit that none of them is interested in Anthem - not at all. Of course they will find a lot of new players, who will be very happy to buy Anthem, but older fanbase ? Maybe we are just too old, or maybe a lot of us doesn't wanna follow "new direction" - not only BW, but gaming overall.
Put me on that boat. After this year's E3, the only game remotely interesting me are CyberPunk and Spider-Man as far as single-player games go. Never cared for the multiplayer/online-centric titles whatsoever.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 12, 2018 21:17:45 GMT
but older fanbase ? Maybe we are just too old Personally, I don't buy that there's a baked-in age factor, I'm early-50's and I'm loving modern gaming, doing things I could never do on my Commodore 64... You're only as old as the games you play. Yep, hittin' the big 5-O this year and really appreciate the gameplay improvements with each iteration from Bio. I loved DAO and ME1, but I can barely touch those games anymore because the combat is simply abysmal. I snicker every time someone throws out Bioware is alienating their traditional fans. I guess I'm not part of the original KOTOR crew...or maybe traditional really means stuck in the past.
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Post by river82 on Jun 12, 2018 22:48:27 GMT
Yep, hittin' the big 5-O this year and really appreciate the gameplay improvements with each iteration from Bio. Gameplay improvements in Inquisition? Haha, that's a good one, you're one hell of a funny man. The gameplay really isn't Inquisition's strength.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 13, 2018 0:06:51 GMT
BioWare returns to its roots (Shattered Steel, 1996) Though I can certainly respect that not every player likes every game a studio makes, if the game format alters. Roll on Dragon Age 4, and judging by Casey's comments, more Mass Effect in the long term. Its not just the game format being altered, its a radical departure from the norm at a time when many fans are skeptical of BioWare's continued existence Indeed. I backed Harebrained Schemes' crowdfunding of their Battletech game even though it isn't the type of game I usually play. Why? because i loved their Shadowrun Returns games and decided to give something new they made a chance. Bioware has lost that level of confidence years ago
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jun 13, 2018 0:32:57 GMT
I'm reminded of where we were in the summer of 2014. Early Dragon Age Inquisition trailers were dropping to broadly positive reactions against a backdrop of comments... As the year progressed and more news emerged, the complaints lessened and the game launched to a popular response. It did? That's not the reaction I remember from half of the old BSN. Including me :/ Paid for GOTYs did the damage on DAI. That was a marketing miracle, selling that swill to the tune they did. Yes, depends on how they release information and ultimately if what is released as information actually is informative. I remain mildly interested and curious. For BioWare, that is actually a great place for me - they lost any pre-orders with DAI, and I passed on MEA (and never regretted it) and I was for a while in a "no fucking way" mode.
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Post by Pearl on Jun 13, 2018 0:42:41 GMT
Spoiler alert: All fan communities are "toxic" to some degree. When people are passionate about something, they tend to cling to their vision of what that thing means to them, or how they think that thing should be. This is not necessarily a bad thing, however, when faced with changes and/or stuff that goes against their perception, they tend to react angrily. FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) certainly plays a big role in this, but the emotional attachment is also a key component.
In other words: "Toxicity" has always existed in every community, and unless human nature changes, it always will. Attempting to completely eradicate it is a lost cause, however that does not mean that it should go unchecked (that's how you wind up with a community like League of Legends).
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Post by helios969 on Jun 13, 2018 1:29:55 GMT
Yep, hittin' the big 5-O this year and really appreciate the gameplay improvements with each iteration from Bio. Gameplay improvements in Inquisition? Haha, that's a good one, you're one hell of a funny man. The gameplay really isn't Inquisition's strength. It was sure as hell better than DAO (debatable on DA2). Dragon fights killed anything that came before.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 1:58:36 GMT
BW do listen sometimes. One example is the heavily criticized Kai Leng fight. They listened to the constructive criticism and created the clone fight on the Citadel DLC. And now they're endlessly trying to recapture those "Citadel moments" without putting in the leg work to make them memorable
Well, I think MEA was targeted for Millennials, and tried not to offend anyone. Mediocre Citadel fits the bill.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 2:23:22 GMT
Gameplay improvements in Inquisition? Haha, that's a good one, you're one hell of a funny man. The gameplay really isn't Inquisition's strength. It was sure as hell better than DAO (debatable on DA2). Dragon fights killed anything that came before. I'd prefer DAO's combat tbh. Full access to all talents, programmable follower AI, and my toon wasn't buried in fx. Most of DAI's combat felt like a boring, repetitive slogfest to me. They also got extremely pushy about maintaining party balance by setting up barriers that required a specific class to break through.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 3:50:55 GMT
And now they're endlessly trying to recapture those "Citadel moments" without putting in the leg work to make them memorable
Well, I think MEA was targeted for Millennials, and tried not to offend anyone. Mediocre Citadel fits the bill.
LOL, as a Millenial who was exposed to BioWare when KOTOR was relevant, they sure failed at drawing them in. They sure as hell failed at drawing me back in after ME3. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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Post by river82 on Jun 13, 2018 6:06:09 GMT
Gameplay improvements in Inquisition? Haha, that's a good one, you're one hell of a funny man. The gameplay really isn't Inquisition's strength. It was sure as hell better than DAO (debatable on DA2). Dragon fights killed anything that came before. DA2 was better because it wasn't a hybrid mish-mash with concessions (even though I hated DA:2's action focus). In the Mass Effect series combat improved with every iteration since ME:2 because the design was the same, and they were just improving on the design. They could probably use their accumulated knowledge of 3rd person shooter combat and apply it to Anthem. One of the problems with Dragon Age combat is it's hard to use their previous knowledge to improve the combat if they're redesigning it every game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 13, 2018 8:39:01 GMT
We're not that toxic.
Proof: :AmicableThink:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 15:04:16 GMT
It was sure as hell better than DAO (debatable on DA2). Dragon fights killed anything that came before. DA2 was better because it wasn't a hybrid mish-mash with concessions (even though I hated DA:2's action focus). In the Mass Effect series combat improved with every iteration since ME:2 because the design was the same, and they were just improving on the design. They could probably use their accumulated knowledge of 3rd person shooter combat and apply it to Anthem. One of the problems with Dragon Age combat is it's hard to use their previous knowledge to improve the combat if they're redesigning it every game.DA2 was where they first decided they needed more mechanical differentiation between warrior and rogue - also, more mechanical and physical differentiation between followers. So warriors lost the ability to dual wield and use archery. Rogues became restricted to bows and daggers, and crossbows disappeared 'cept for Varric's Bianca. All of the non-combat skills went away, and followers got unique skill trees while losing access to other skill trees (example: Anders was the only available healer, cuz Merrill was a blood mage). Oh, and they introduced cross-class combos. You could no longer equip followers with armor because "iconic" appearance (and its implications for cosplay) was more important. You still had programmable AI (which I loved) but the animations were so OTT ridiculous that seeing those in the midst of such dark story content created a great deal of tonal dissonance for me. All they ever really needed to do was refine DAO's combat and clean up the UI - also maybe speed it up a bit and lose the oft-maligned warden shuffle. It's funny - ME's biotic and tech 'splosions always made sense to me, but DA's ccc not so much. Maybe it's because ME offered hybrid classes where DA worked overtime to differentiate rogues from warriors - so it feels more artificial. Or because ME's version was simplified as primer and detonator, where DA invented these weird states for each class to leave a foe in, thus setting them up for another class to take advantage. Shrug.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 13, 2018 15:09:20 GMT
It was sure as hell better than DAO (debatable on DA2). Dragon fights killed anything that came before. I'd prefer DAO's combat tbh. Full access to all talents, programmable follower AI, and my toon wasn't buried in fx. Most of DAI's combat felt like a boring, repetitive slogfest to me. They also got extremely pushy about maintaining party balance by setting up barriers that required a specific class to break through. DAI's combat is the single biggest failing of an otherwise pretty good game.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 13, 2018 15:57:29 GMT
I'd prefer DAO's combat tbh. Full access to all talents, programmable follower AI, and my toon wasn't buried in fx. Most of DAI's combat felt like a boring, repetitive slogfest to me. They also got extremely pushy about maintaining party balance by setting up barriers that required a specific class to break through. DAI's combat is the single biggest failing of an otherwise pretty good game. I disagree, tho. It was quite good actually. Bows didnt have enough punch and it was too much focussed on the gear acquisition progress-wise.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 13, 2018 16:02:18 GMT
Developers should expect to see criticism for their work, regardless of how much time they put into it. While video games may be a form of entertainment, they are also an artform and - therefore - are open to scrutiny. Wanting everyone to be complicit in the way in which you design your game doesn't make the situation better for anyone; developer and gamer alike. Fostering good-will is also an important part of the puzzle. Goodwill doesn't just mean giving people free stuff, it also means making a good product at launch, providing support for the game, and fostering an active dialogue within the community for your game. I know MTX's tend to get brought up a lot in the discussion of good will, but I don't think we would have gotten to this point in the discussion if lootboxes had never been a thing; only direct-purchase. I will say that one caveat to all this is needing to separate what the Publisher wants, and what the Developer wants. That can be a huge factor in how the game gets marketed and makes its revenue.
With that said, I think recent years have sparked a wave of hyperbole among certain groups of gamers. I get that people who enjoy Bioware games can be quite passionate, but I also think that passion should be used for constructive criticism. Some of this "passion" gets used to just demean the developers in hopes that, if you make them feel like shit enough, they'll somehow do something that they weren't already planning to do from the get-go. Most likely, if a criticism of the game exists, the developers (hopefully) know that they need to fix it. It's fine to reinforce the fact that something needs to be fixed/changed, but saying the developers are incompetent (or deserve to be fired) just seems like a dig at them on a personal level. Though I've never made a product and shipped it, I would imagine having their product not live up to customer expectations probably makes that person(s) feel like shit already.
While I want my games to be of good quality, I also don't envy the job of a developer either.
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