Does anyone else always side with Meredith?

To answer the query of the thread itself, I don't like Meredith. She always had more influence than is her wont and even if she wasn't abusive herself, her rule certainly allowed a lot of abusive Templars to avoid punishment. Had she answered Anders' provocation by publicly executing him and only him, there might not even have been a Mage-Templar war.

However, Varric says it himself if you side with the mages: "I'm not sure we should be doing this, Hawke. Helping dangerous people run amok."

Meredith is the system's icon. And she was abusive herself, it's the fact, it proved. 

Varric is a nice guy, but I'm with I'm with Isabela:

Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free.
Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just mages.
Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous.
Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you.

She can, and she's right about it. Everyone can make mistakes, but can be right about other things. And also: Isabela isn't pro-slavery, she even protected many slaves. 
But I know, you don't understand the differences. Someone who commit mistakes aren't able to say anything anymore, that person can no longer be right about anything. You're very funny, indeed.

No, that's totally different. The system is wrong, because doesn't serve any good, even if someone in the system, thinks, it's good, and they serve the good, even if sometimes it leads to some bad – they're can be benevolent, but misled by the system, the propaganda, the lyrium. 
Also: I never said, a templar can't be right about something else, than the system – for example a templar can say that this rat-urine in The hanged Man is terrible, and s/he's probably right about it... even against Isabela...

You right about I don't see the Templar Order acceptable. It must be destroyed – because it corrupted by power and by lyrium, there is no value remained, except one-two people, and with some mages, they should build an anti-magical force. But you know my opinion about it. And you know well: this system is absolutely not redeemable nor fixable. The whole idea based on imprisoning innocents, to hunt them as some wild beasts, are wrong – there no question. The conception and the means they use are all wrong (hunting and kidnapping children, imprisoning innocents, the Harrowing, the Tranquility... and the "Right" of Annulment – all CRIMES, nothing of them is acceptable) with one exception: they have to be trained – but nobody denied that. The Circles have value in the accumulated knowledge, the library, and the scholars, of course, who are able to share this knowledge – to train the little ones.
Cullen suggested, that some mages can leave the Circle and work in a clinic under constant Templar oversight – and yes, that's terrible idea and not a great difference: some mages were able to leave the Circle with permission/oversight, I don't see his idea is a change. (But it seems proves, that, they let Anders work in Kirkwall – only sometimes as Anders said, they're snooping around the clinic. At least he seems liked the idea of that...) 
So: you're right: I shut any Templar (Order) positive ideas in general principle. You're right the Templar Order shouldn't being a part of the picture – at least not in that form, as I said. And the templars (the people) should be free as well. The Chantry ruined them, they should rebuild themselves.

About Hanako and Isabela, me and a templar (yes a person, like Isabela): (/sight, again... so...) Hanako said: Isabela can't say anything about anything, because she did a mistake, so: she should shut up about everything in her whole life after that, she don't have any right to her opinion about everything.
I DIN'T say, that the Templars can't have opinion about the Qun for example... Hanako said: Isabela can't have any opinion, because people's blood on her hand. So: according to Hanako, NOBODY has right of their opinion, who has blood on his/her hand. And this is a nonsense. But of course, you can't see the difference. (Also. the Templars –the order and most of the templars as person as well– has blood on their hand. A lot. So: if we take Hanako's indicated course line, they haven't any right to their opinions.)

Wherever you are in the world right now, there are innocent people imprisoned in closed psychiatric departments to keep you safe from them. Not necessarily because of anything they've done, but because of what it has been deemed that they might do if they were allowed to walk the streets.

I'm curious if you're as ardent in your desire to break down the local health industry and free them, since their freedom has been stolen by the system in many cases because of how they were born too. And apparently nothing ever justifies that.

Or maybe the fact that their freedom might have endangered your life, as opposed to other people's, makes keeping them contained against their will a bearable thought after all.

As for the Isabela thing, Hanako said nothing about her not having a right to opinions, just that her accusing other people of infringing upon others' rights isn't really something anybody should take seriously given how liberal she is about doing that herself. And I added my take that being a pirate(read: professional anarchist), her ideas of how societal structures should work aren't very credible either.

The Templars have plenty of blood on their hands, sure. But you could multiply that a hundredfold and it probably still wouldn't come anywhere close to how much death mages are responsible for. And unlike the previous historical periods we're aware of, mages haven't enslaved every known civilization while the Templars have been doing their jobs.

You definitely don't know enough specifics about how much suffering Templars have caused vs prevented to say that their existence is counterproductive with half the confidence you're trying to state it with. And even if you did, your blank refusal to address mage atrocities as in any way being mages' responsibility makes you far too biased to take very seriously either.

Just one thing:



I think you are giving Isabela far too much credit in terms of political understanding, using a real-world political term in a ridiculously loaded, plain wrong way. Call her a murderous greedy b*tch with a lack of savvy-ness for organised crime (Did she really believed Castillon would leave her alone if she just paid up? ) if you want.

Other than that, I'm outta here. I've got my share of aggressive trench fighting from positions of bad faith.

Mithras
1. Not the mages created the Darkspawn.

2. The Chantry let the mages temporarily go out of the Circle to help them? Oh, how nice it is... They should be grateful! The slaves' masters also let their slaves go outside for some work, they also should be grateful? Eh. That doesn't make the Circle or the slavery acceptable.

3. Meredith's power came from the red lyrium, yes – this was my point. The red lyrium exists, just as many magical power. Not only the mages can be dangerous. Also they're 1% again... and who can use another source of power, also 1% – and people don't want to lock them... while they are also dangerous. Just as the mages. They need an army to destroy another army and people? Oh, of course. More death. Celene burned a whole alienage for more power, with the agreement of the Divine – this is also human sacrifice. The nobles and people in charge also 1%... and also: they can have mages...

Who is able to give up the freedom – for safety, doesn't deserve nether freedom, nor safety.

I LOVE that the Circle rebelled, I waited for it from my first PT with the Origins. Blame that very safe system. As Bethany said at the Gallows: "A new age begins today. People will overcome their fears and find better ways to live with mages." 

Mithras
1. You can't blame the "mages" for it.
2. You can never trust a slave if you're their master – and if a slave is loyal, that slave is seriously damaged, or an idiot (or both), but not every of them... Or if  you don't like I compared them to the slaves, I can use another comparison: A captive's duty is the sabotage – how can anyone trust a person, they keep in captivity?
3. Yes, I can say, the nobles are dangerous. And they still free... Chantry isn't "neutral", also caused many wars... Not mentioned, there are apostates to serve the nobles as mercenary. An apostate is very valuable... You can't eliminate the danger of magic with close the mages into a tower. Also: if you let them go from the Circle temporarily (or permanently, like the Warden mages) to solve the problem, more dangerous than if they solve problem, but they can live freely... (see above – also: inside the Circle, everyone damages, who less who more, mages and Templars as well, no exception – this is a venomous place) If you want to "eliminate" the problem, much better if you kill them all. Every mage who walks freely can cause danger (just like every people), especially the damaged, frustrated ones So: kill them all (but they always birth – as Cullen says as well in DA2...), or let them free. There's no half-measures. The Circle isn't a solution.
4. Somalia? How can it come here? In this topic? What do you want to say with that?
5. Yes, it's my favourite storyline in the whole DA.
6. Oh, I know that conversation. Many people think, she loved that horror house, but who would be such an idiot? Bethany sacrificed herself, to pay back to her remained family (Hawke or perhaps Leandra, Gamlen) and her friends, to protect them:
Bethany: So, you were in the Circle and ran away. I don't know if I'd be brave enough to do that.
Anders: You've been an apostate your whole life.
Bethany: Exactly. It was never anything I had to work for. Other people always took the risks, to keep me free.
But he hated that place, and wanted to free her people. If Hawke support her and the mages, she doesn't feel, she should restrain her real feeling anymore: