Does anyone else always side with Meredith?

Um, even Anders defends her in Act 2. “However misguided, she believes she is helping people.”
Also ironic how you’re claiming she can’t be defended when you constantly defend Anders inexcusable and indefensible actions. He even does everything you accuse her of doing.

No, you never said why Anders is a different case. You said why you think it’s a different case, but the statements are not supported by anything except your bias and hypocrisy.

As I said: No facts, just bias and hypocrisy.

I'm inclined to agree with you. It's not like Meredith doesn't express any sympathy for mages or a desire not to have to be so hard on them - to her own mind at least.

And if Anders blowing the Chantry up in order to stand up for his mage brothers is coming from a place of compassion, then her desire to protect ordinary people who could never stand a chance against a raging abomination or just a malicious mage is too. Because those things sure as hell happen.

In my mind the biggest differences are that the world's history of mages causing disasters and oppressing people with magic given the chance favors her view more than his. And that while she has actually been appointed by society to handle mages in whatever way keeps everyone else safe, Anders takes matters into his own hands and kills people completely on his own initiative without reaching out to anyone else before making the decision, so far as we know.

There's no question that Meredith also plays fast and loose with her technical rights and privileges as Knight-Commander. But she was given ultimate responsibility for keeping Kirkwall's mages under control, and didn't just appoint herself. And when she really starts overstepping her bounds, the system in the regrettable shape of Cullen steps in to push back and try to keep her from tearing everything else down, lame and late as the effort is.

Which is one of the reasons why we prefer having a system. There are no checks or balances for terrorists.

Yes. And this is why she's the icon of the system, she embodies the system. The fact, that she's in charge in this system shows the system's true face.

Not at all. Having arbitrary opinions and being incensed at people not sharing your self-righteous hatred, and even more so when they call you out on it, is fairly normal these days. I have no opinion whatsoever on your intelligence.

And for the sixteenth time, nobody is fond of Meredith and nobody is denying that she's something of a bitch. The discussion, if you haven't noticed, is whether that means she's half as one-dimensionally evil as people make her out to be. Stop accusing me of being in love with her or her templars just because I don't hate them as much as you do. It makes no sense as an argument.

You don't have to be fond of her. You tried to defend and justify her methods.  That's enough.
But you're right about that Meredith's not one-dimensional. Still: indefensible.

Oh, what’s the difference? What makes one a cold-blooded murder of innocents but the other isn’t? I would love to hear the answer.
And yes, it is a fact. Both are the exact same thing: murdering innocent people.

One of us is blind and has a problem, but it’s not me.

Pointing out fallacies and putting things objectively into perspective isn't "treating people like crap", and again, nobody is defending incompetent or abusive authorities. I just pointed out that systems, however misguided, at least tend to be better restrained than individuals murdering innocents because voices in their heads tell them it's the only way. Which is why we generally don't go in for that sort of thing. Do you disagree with that? I can't imagine you would, and certainly don't think that you do. And yet you take offense at it being stated. So it seems like you're just not listening to what I'm saying.

The templars are a religious group formed to contain an objectively and unusually physically dangerous minority. That's not the same thing as simply oppressing a minority is. And again, nobody is buying into white knight propaganda. They are definitely flawed and should ideally be organized better to serve their purpose more effectively and humanely. Nobody disagrees with that.

And nobody said the Qun was "right", just that their mages at least haven't destroyed the world so far as we know, which is more than humans or elves can say, and people in Thedas being racist isn't necessarily a reflection on the Chantry. Neither is them stamping out dissenting views and beliefs. You might have noticed that that's a thing everybody does in the setting, and arguably without. Mages included, whenever they have been the ones to have the upper hand. Your gripes with the templars in particular on those counts sound irrational. The same things could be said for almost every faction in the franchise.

You might also remember that I sent you that PM because you started asking me these questions in a different thread with a completely different topic where discussing it wasn't appropriate. I'm not talking your ear off on the subject, you're the one who has a hard time listening, keeps asking, and yet complains when I have to repeat myself.

I have no problem with the idea of a mage police populated by mages, assuming it would actually work, and given compelling reason to believe that it wouldn't just lead straight to the Tevinter Empire 2.0. You'd have to elaborate a lot on your idea, and have some damn strong arguments, to outweigh the potential repeat of any of the several magical atrocities or apocalypses Thedas' people have already had to suffer because mages felt entitled to this or that. But keeping all that in mind, I'm open to it.


Within the context of DA2's ending, I'd mostly say support the mages. Standing by and letting big armed men exterminate relative innocents is a lot harder for a man of action like Hawke than the alternative is, and DA2 is a roleplaying game. I think it takes a Hawke with a very specific or radical mindset to support the templars in that ending, even if s/he generally stands behind them philosophically, which it doesn't sound like yours particularly does.

If the mages at the circle don't count as "the common folk" in your Hawke's eyes, and loved ones like Bethany aren't on the line, and Hawke just wants to limit the wanton death of Kirkwallers, then letting the Templars do their thing and focusing on keeping the fighting from spilling out into the city proper makes sense too.