helios969
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Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
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Post by helios969 on Jul 4, 2018 11:12:49 GMT
And I'm honestly not trying to be mean. A point to make really clear to dropzofcrimzon and others is that this forum exists to share different perspectives. Whilst DoC's position may appear extreme, I think its a perspective sincerely held by some BioWare fans, furthermore, it's ok to express it, so long as it doesn't reach the level of 'opinion spam'. Many forms of social media such as YouTube and Twitter, often by virtue of their structure have lost the ability to have a good debate. We seem to no longer have the facility to string a discussion together, just throw soundbites at each other. So thank you for sharing dropzofcrimzon , genuinely. I'm rather on the cynical side of the spectrum in a people-filled room, but my red button is closed mindedness. I would not classify such repeat vocal forum annoyances as bioware fans.
First of all, they like(d) only 1 or 2 bioware games. Bioware just happened to make a game that fit their personal views. You're not a developr fan if you like only one game. For example. I think MGSV was pretty likeable, but am by no means a hideo kojima fan. Second, fans give constructive criticism. Repeatedly pointing out unfounded opinionated flaws is nowhere near constructive criticism.
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience.
I would add that if the same one person feels the need to "troll" anyone who may express optimism for a coming game they're contributing little of value to the discussion. I'm not at all in favor of banning people from forums unless they're just being nasty, but I think if there were tools like giving people a "timeout" from a thread for 24 hours, they might take the hint and learn how to engage these discussions properly. Of course, it takes two to tango and I've found the best way to deal with certain types is simply not to engage them. I hate seeing threads get locked because of one or two people taking it over.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 4, 2018 11:23:49 GMT
Yeah...still we got a great game. Well better to hear the sound a string bursting than never to draw your bow. Yah. You and 12 other people think so. There are 14 people viewing this forum currently. Great sample size you got here. Ride Or Die, Andromeda. RIDE OR DIE. Is it some kind of bitter little basement dweller lingo?
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 4, 2018 11:35:46 GMT
Anyway, have anyone, anywhere, anytime managed to decipher what constitutes "old Bioware RPG fans"? Since this new vs old seems to have been an ongoing thing since BG2 I'm not sure there can be a definition that makes sense. The line will always be drawn arbitrarily based on a persons personal bias and preference. I'm an old RPG fan. And to me Anthem looks like a game that will give me great roleplaying opportunities.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 11:40:47 GMT
'Cause it's our birthday today? Happy birthday from King George... Of course, the official 'national' holiday for this forum was a few days ago...
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jul 4, 2018 11:52:16 GMT
'Cause it's our birthday today? Happy birthday from King George... Of course, the official 'national' holiday for this forum was a few days ago... As was Canada day.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 11:53:40 GMT
As was Canada day. Exactly.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 4, 2018 12:08:35 GMT
and my point was "were those complaints not warranted in Andromeda's case" Also, again look at halo 5's multiplayer....yes a SMALL portion of fans complained yet the vast majority vocally says it is pretty much the best since halo 3. I never said the complaints were unwarranted, but what I am saying is BioWare tried in the past to address the mob mentality of the internet and its complaints when designing Andromeda from all the criticisms from Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 and it wasn't done the way people wanted if anything there were more complaints about the game. I expect that if BioWare went back and tried to address the complaints with Andromeda it would be received any better, for people want everything in a BioWare game catered to them and if it isn't it becomes a backlash that people pile onto. Do I think BioWare will work on facial animations in the next game? Of course, but I also think its going to come at a cost that is going to piss people off. Such as less dialogue which people complained a lot about in Mass Effect 3 with having very few neutral options. How about less romances in the game so they can spend the animation time better, well with Andromeda there were the groups that were upset about male/male romance count for two instead of three. Now I can see some of the argument, but still there were complaints about the numbers and how they weren't all equal. Better yet people keep asking for the ability to play another race do you think they will take the time for all those additional animation and QA time when they are spending so much time on facial animations. Now with all that said there will be also people that don't care about those changes, but it seems since EA took over people are looking for a reason to be pissed at BioWare. That is my point, I don't think addressing the complaints is going to make people happy for there is going to be something done while addressing those that will cause more complaints. Then BioWare will address those in the next game while sacrificing more. my point was that a lot of those glaring issues stem from the different studio that made Andromeda as they decreased the quality in several of the aspects people were criticizing compared to previous entries in the franchise. Which is why the argument cannot me made in a consequential manner. The continuity of development was broken same as it happened between halo 3 and 4 for instance or gears 3 and judgement/ gears 4 Also...is it just me or us the whole procedurally generated thing for exploration is REALLY staring to be more of an annoyance than an asset on both production and consumer level in games like this?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 12:10:57 GMT
Also...is it just me or us the whole procedurally generated thing for exploration is REALLY staring to be more of an annoyance than an asset on both production and consumer level in games like this? I agree, the concept is good, but nothing is quite like 'hand placed'. My understanding is that a lot of time was wasted on MEA over that digression.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 4, 2018 12:12:31 GMT
Of course I'm trying to be daft, a reductio ad absurdum argument seemed the way to go. I'm trying to find a level of logic that matches the arguments that you have been making. Holy shit, that burn!
I hope he understood that.
I did and since his logical did not match the basic building block of my argument (which is what you are reducing an argument to for the reductio ad absurdum dialectic model) the whole idea failed, but hey go ahead and high five him
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 4, 2018 12:20:15 GMT
Also...is it just me or us the whole procedurally generated thing for exploration is REALLY staring to be more of an annoyance than an asset on both production and consumer level in games like this? I agree, the concept is good, but nothing is quite like 'hand placed'. My understanding is that a lot of time was wasted on MEA over that digression. well yes because they figured that if a machine can do it for them they can use resources elsewhere. Point is in a gaming landscape where this generation was dubbed "the open world generation" in its first few years and a lot of players are suffering from open world fatigue (me included mind you) because of the trappings of the open world model, using a procedurally generated insanely large space only increases the problem as now the environments are anything but epic and interesting. Realistic and expansive but hardly what would make it worth your time exploring them...especially if you have to revisit the same area over and over and over travelling from point A to B-C-D multiple times because that is how open world games artificially inflate the longevity of a game
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 12:33:30 GMT
if you have to revisit the same area over and over and over travelling from point A to B-C-D multiple times because that is how open world games artificially inflate the longevity of a game Might be a different topic, but I rather enjoy the scale. For example, I rarely 'fast travel' in games, to the point of building my gameplay around it.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jul 4, 2018 13:04:02 GMT
Also...is it just me or us the whole procedurally generated thing for exploration is REALLY staring to be more of an annoyance than an asset on both production and consumer level in games like this? I agree, the concept is good, but nothing is quite like 'hand placed'. My understanding is that a lot of time was wasted on MEA over that digression. Meh, Its hard to say with any certainty. Its like saying a lot of time was wasted on facial animations because some of them were bad. Its not like the old days where team were a couple dozen people with modern games you can have up to 500 people touching a game during development and there is a good chance the people that were working on procedural content were only hired to work on that content so if it wasn't there those people wouldn't have been hired or at least there are people that wouldn't have been hired. Again my understanding is that procedural content was scrapped yes, but it also wasn't the main focus of the game. You still would have had Eos and the other major planets procedural planets would have been for UNC style missions so they might have worked on it for a couple of years, but that doesn't mean other areas would have been better off if they didn't attempt it.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 4, 2018 13:09:14 GMT
if you have to revisit the same area over and over and over travelling from point A to B-C-D multiple times because that is how open world games artificially inflate the longevity of a game Might be a different topic, but I rather enjoy the scale. For example, I rarely 'fast travel' in games, to the point of building my gameplay around it. Scale is fine, not fast traveling is fine too if you like it Boring procedural environments are still inferior to hand placed landscapes meant to look epic and inspiring...and rhe make the problem worse.
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Post by Sifr on Jul 4, 2018 13:24:16 GMT
For example, I rarely 'fast travel' in games, to the point of building my gameplay around it. In Bioware games, I rarely use "fast travel" except to sell loot when I run out of inventory space.
In Bethesda games, I rarely can use "fast travel" because I'm always over-encumbered by thousands of lbs.
(If you give me the option to clear a dungeon, don't expect me not to clear that dungeon)
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jul 4, 2018 13:41:11 GMT
For example, I rarely 'fast travel' in games, to the point of building my gameplay around it. In Bioware games, I rarely use "fast travel" except to sell loot when I run out of inventory space.
In Bethesda games, I rarely can use "fast travel" because I'm always over-encumbered by thousands of lbs.
(If you give me the option to clear a dungeon, don't expect me not to clear that dungeon) Sure, I'll report back that we wiped up the silver hand. Why am I walking so slow? You don't expect me to come back for their armour, do you? The Dragon born has other stuff to do.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 4, 2018 13:50:48 GMT
They can attract who they want as long as they are honestly telling what customers are going to expect to be in the product. Pardon: Service
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 4, 2018 14:06:06 GMT
They can attract who they want as long as they are honestly telling what customers are going to expect to be in the product. Pardon: Servicewhich is partly my problem here They are telling and hinting but not showing
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Quickpaw
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Tuldabar
XBL Gamertag: Shadow Quickpaw
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Post by Quickpaw on Jul 4, 2018 23:34:27 GMT
For example, I rarely 'fast travel' in games, to the point of building my gameplay around it. In Bioware games, I rarely use "fast travel" except to sell loot when I run out of inventory space.
In Bethesda games, I rarely can use "fast travel" because I'm always over-encumbered by thousands of lbs.
(If you give me the option to clear a dungeon, don't expect me not to clear that dungeon) We know to be careful with Bioware and fast travel now, since it precluded companion banter in Inquisition (it fired every 15ish non-combat minutes unless you fast travelled, which reset the timer)
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 4, 2018 23:56:23 GMT
which is partly my problem here They are telling and hinting but not showing You're quite right it is important to show, not just to tell, when it comes to game reveals. Let's see how Anthem stacks up to other BioWare games released over the last 12 years in terms of how much content has been shown. I've measured from 8 months prior to launch and earlier, so we are on a level playing field, assessing how much was shown of each of BioWare's past games at comparable points. I've been generous and have included content that fell just within 8 months by virtue of where E3 fell. The data I'm sharing may be validated using the BSN YouTube channel Trailer playlists: www.youtube.com/channel/UCfn9izl1QlwCfMPmn1_Z2ug Mass Effect- Mass Effect X05 Reveal Trailer October 5th 2005 1.11
- Mass Effect E3 2006 Trailer May 10th 2006 4.17
- Mass Effect X06 Demo Trailer December 8th 2006 5.27
- (launch: November 20 2007)
10 m - 55 s
Dragon Age Origins- Dragon Age Origins Grey Wardens Trailer December 13th 2008 1.15
- (launch: November 3 2009)
1 m - 15 s
Mass Effect 2- Mass Effect 2 Teaser Feb 24 2009 1.01
- Mass Effect 2 E3 2009 Trailer May 30th 2009 1.35
- (launch: January 26 2010)
2 m - 36 sDragon Age II- (No content shared until 7 months pre-launch: )
0 mMass Effect 3
- Mass Effect 3 Teaser Trailer December 11th 2010 - 1.19
- Mass Effect 3 'Fall Of Earth' E3 2011 Trailer June 7th 2011 1.21
- Mass Effect 3 Live Action Trailer June 10th 2011 1.35
- (launch: March 6 2012)
3 m - 15 sDragon Age Inquisition- Dragon Age: Inquisition Official E3 2013 Teaser Trailer - The Fires Above Jun 10, 2013 1.44
- Dragon Age: Inquisition | Discover the Dragon Age - March 6 2014 2.18 *
- (launch: November 18 2014)
*when published, the launch date was still October 10, but allowing it to be generous. ** The Pax and DigiExpo stage demos exist, were never officially published. 4 m - 02 sMass Effect Andromeda- BioWare E3 Trailer - Mass Effect and New Title Update June 9th 2014 0.53 (partial video)
- Mass Effect Andromeda E3 2015 Announce Trailer June 15th 2015 1.52
- MASS EFFECT™ Official Video – N7 Day 2015 1.29
- Mass Effect Andromeda EA Play trailer June 12th 2016 1.59
- (Launch: March 21, 2017)
6 m - 13 sAnthem- Anthem Official Teaser Trailer (2017) 0.53
- Anthem Official Gameplay Reveal (2017) 6.57
- Anthem Official Cinematic Trailer (2018) 1.50
- 4 Minutes of Anthem Open World Co-Op Exploration Gameplay - E3 2018 4.22
- (Launch: February 22, 2019)
14 m - 02 s
So with the spurious exception of the Dragon Age Inquisition stage demo, which was unreleased. Anthem has shown more than any BioWare game in the last 12 years (at a comparable point before launch): - 14 m - 02 s - Anthem
- 10 m - 55 s - Mass Effect
- 6 m - 13 s - Mass Effect Andromeda
- 4 m - 02 s - Dragon Age Inquisition
- 3 m - 15 s - Mass Effect 3
- 2 m - 36 s - Mass Effect 2
- 1 m - 15 s - Dragon Age Origins
- 0 m - Dragon Age II
Furthermore, not only has BioWare shown more of Anthem, it has also told more about Anthem, with Hrungr's list now including over 250 shared facts: bsn.boards.net/thread/15097/anthem?page=1I can respect you may not like the idea of Anthem, we can have different opinions on these things and you've shared yours (at length), but when you start to assert that what has been shown falls short, well, we can count, this is an empirical process, we can measure. "They are telling and hinting but not showing"?Nope. The reverse is true.
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Post by bshep on Jul 5, 2018 0:23:18 GMT
Now i want to see anyone try to spin this. Nice collection of videos on that channel. Interesting to see the disparity between all the games by this time prior to release, apart from the original Mass Effect.
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Post by dropzofcrimzon on Jul 5, 2018 1:46:42 GMT
which is partly my problem here They are telling and hinting but not showing You're quite right it is important to show, not just to tell, when it comes to game reveals. Let's see how Anthem stacks up to other BioWare games released over the last 12 years in terms of how much content has been shown. I've measured from 8 months prior to launch and earlier, so we are on a level playing field, assessing how much was shown of each of BioWare's past games at comparable points. I've been generous and have included content that fell just within 8 months by virtue of where E3 fell. The data I'm sharing may be validated using the BSN YouTube channel Trailer playlists: www.youtube.com/channel/UCfn9izl1QlwCfMPmn1_Z2ug Mass Effect- Mass Effect X05 Reveal Trailer October 5th 2005 1.11
- Mass Effect E3 2006 Trailer May 10th 2006 4.17
- Mass Effect X06 Demo Trailer December 8th 2006 5.27
- (launch: November 20 2007)
10 m - 55 s
Dragon Age Origins- Dragon Age Origins Grey Wardens Trailer December 13th 2008 1.15
- (launch: November 3 2009)
1 m - 15 s
Mass Effect 2- Mass Effect 2 Teaser Feb 24 2009 1.01
- Mass Effect 2 E3 2009 Trailer May 30th 2009 1.35
- (launch: January 26 2010)
2 m - 36 sDragon Age II- (No content shared until 7 months pre-launch: )
0 mMass Effect 3
- Mass Effect 3 Teaser Trailer December 11th 2010 - 1.19
- Mass Effect 3 'Fall Of Earth' E3 2011 Trailer June 7th 2011 1.21
- Mass Effect 3 Live Action Trailer June 10th 2011 1.35
- (launch: March 6 2012)
3 m - 15 sDragon Age Inquisition- Dragon Age: Inquisition Official E3 2013 Teaser Trailer - The Fires Above Jun 10, 2013 1.44
- Dragon Age: Inquisition | Discover the Dragon Age - March 6 2014 2.18 *
- (launch: November 18 2014)
*when published, the launch date was still October 10, but allowing it to be generous. ** The Pax and DigiExpo stage demos exist, were never officially published. 4 m - 02 sMass Effect Andromeda- BioWare E3 Trailer - Mass Effect and New Title Update June 9th 2014 0.53 (partial video)
- Mass Effect Andromeda E3 2015 Announce Trailer June 15th 2015 1.52
- MASS EFFECT™ Official Video – N7 Day 2015 1.29
- Mass Effect Andromeda EA Play trailer June 12th 2016 1.59
- (Launch: March 21, 2017)
6 m - 13 sAnthem- Anthem Official Teaser Trailer (2017) 0.53
- Anthem Official Gameplay Reveal (2017) 6.57
- Anthem Official Cinematic Trailer (2018) 1.50
- 4 Minutes of Anthem Open World Co-Op Exploration Gameplay - E3 2018 4.22
- (Launch: February 22, 2019)
14 m - 02 s
So with the spurious exception of the Dragon Age Inquisition stage demo, which was unreleased. Anthem has shown more than any BioWare game in the last 12 years (at a comparable point before launch): - 14 m - 02 s - Anthem
- 10 m - 55 s - Mass Effect
- 6 m - 13 s - Mass Effect Andromeda
- 4 m - 02 s - Dragon Age Inquisition
- 3 m - 15 s - Mass Effect 3
- 2 m - 36 s - Mass Effect 2
- 1 m - 15 s - Dragon Age Origins
- 0 m - Dragon Age II
Furthermore, not only has BioWare shown more of Anthem, it has also told more about Anthem, with Hrungr's list now including over 250 shared facts: bsn.boards.net/thread/15097/anthem?page=1I can respect you may not like the idea of Anthem, we can have different opinions on these things and you've shared yours (at length), but when you start to assert that what has been shown falls short, well, we can count, this is an empirical process, we can measure. "They are telling and hinting but not showing"?Nope. The reverse is true. Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.....you know as opposed to " oh look how cool and destiny like this is" I am very aware they showed a lot....a lot of the stuff that the extreme focus on which made me worry in the first place that this was going to be basically EA's grab at the destiny market
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Post by Pearl on Jul 5, 2018 3:12:37 GMT
I'm rather on the cynical side of the spectrum in a people-filled room, but my red button is closed mindedness. I would not classify such repeat vocal forum annoyances as bioware fans.
First of all, they like(d) only 1 or 2 bioware games. Bioware just happened to make a game that fit their personal views. You're not a developr fan if you like only one game. For example. I think MGSV was pretty likeable, but am by no means a hideo kojima fan. Second, fans give constructive criticism. Repeatedly pointing out unfounded opinionated flaws is nowhere near constructive criticism.
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience.
So how many games does someone have to like before they qualify as a "developer fan"? In my eyes Bioware hasn't produced a truly impressive product since Lair of the Shadow Broker, but I love most of what they released in the 2000s - do I qualify as a "Bioware fan" or do I fail this ideological purity test? More importantly, who is the arbiter of what qualifies someone as a "Bioware fan" in the first place? It's a purely subjective thing, and trying to judge it objectively is a losing proposition. We could spend days coming up with criteria for what classifies someone as a "real fan", but that's not going to change the mind of someone who already considers themselves to be one. Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.....you know as opposed to " oh look how cool and destiny like this is" I am very aware they showed a lot....a lot of the stuff that the extreme focus on which made me worry in the first place that this was going to be basically EA's grab at the destiny market I'm in awe of how efficiently you can move those goalposts.
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Post by bshep on Jul 5, 2018 6:15:59 GMT
Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.....you know as opposed to " oh look how cool and destiny like this is" I am very aware they showed a lot....a lot of the stuff that the extreme focus on which made me worry in the first place that this was going to be basically EA's grab at the destiny market Your posts across this thread paint a very different picture.
Also as the videos timeline shown by this time in development we knew even less about all Mass Effect and Dragon Age games except DA:Inquisition because the demo gameplay leaked, which didn't happened in Anthem's case.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jul 5, 2018 6:39:09 GMT
I'm rather on the cynical side of the spectrum in a people-filled room, but my red button is closed mindedness. I would not classify such repeat vocal forum annoyances as bioware fans.
First of all, they like(d) only 1 or 2 bioware games. Bioware just happened to make a game that fit their personal views. You're not a developr fan if you like only one game. For example. I think MGSV was pretty likeable, but am by no means a hideo kojima fan. Second, fans give constructive criticism. Repeatedly pointing out unfounded opinionated flaws is nowhere near constructive criticism.
Now, I get your viewpoint as moderator that everyone should be able to express their opinion and in no shape or size support censorship. However, as a forum user, I would also like to point out that this type of discussions degrades the overall forum experience.
So how many games does someone have to like before they qualify as a "developer fan"? In my eyes Bioware hasn't produced a truly impressive product since Lair of the Shadow Broker, but I love most of what they released in the 2000s - do I qualify as a "Bioware fan" or do I fail this ideological purity test? More importantly, who is the arbiter of what qualifies someone as a "Bioware fan" in the first place? It's a purely subjective thing, and trying to judge it objectively is a losing proposition. We could spend days coming up with criteria for what classifies someone as a "real fan", but that's not going to change the mind of someone who already considers themselves to be one. Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.....you know as opposed to " oh look how cool and destiny like this is" I am very aware they showed a lot....a lot of the stuff that the extreme focus on which made me worry in the first place that this was going to be basically EA's grab at the destiny market I'm in awe of how efficiently you can move those goalposts. You're a developer fan If you like the developer. That can be after one, two, seven, whatever games.
If you don't like the developer (for whatever reason, but for the sake of argument let's say... oh, uh, I dunno... "because they're not making the game you like anymore") even if you used to like one, two, seven, whatever games they made earlier, you're not a developer fan.
No need for intricate quota.
But I always tend to try and view the world in an as black and white shade as possible. It simplifies living and makes me happier. It annoysthe gray people around me, though (which secretly gives me GREAT pleasure ).
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 5, 2018 7:17:55 GMT
Coughs...uhm, Sofa? You kinda missed the fact I was talking about the features that would attract the old BW crowd. You know the stuff that they are not conspicuously showing like Fort Tarsis story interaction, dialogue trees, permutation of dialogue, relationships, story delivery.... Hardly. The first thing we see in last year's E3 trailer is the Freelancer discussing a quest with Praxley. Much of the other games' early trailers are equally shooting or mageing with a mix of pretty cinematics. Some of the items you are looking for may well emerge 4-5 months before launch, as they would usually do with any BioWare game release.
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