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Post by maximusarael020 on Jun 24, 2018 20:22:27 GMT
This tweet, from @bsnforums, suggests that the future marketing for Anthem should include more things of interest to traditional Bioware fans. I.e. more story moments, character interaction, etc. My question is: does it really need to? Is it really important for Bioware and Anthem to attract fans of its classic RPG games to their new "looter-shooter" game? Bioware has always made different types of games. Mass Effect is very different in terms of playstyle to Dragon Age, which is very different from Star Wars, The Old Republic, which is different from their very first titles. All have that Hallmark of Bioware storytelling, but in terms of gameplay are very different. So for Anthem to be successful, will it be necessary to attract in the people who loved Mass Effect or SWTOR or Dragon Age? Or should they be trying to attract people who have never been interested in most Bioware games? Of course, none of this is to say that people cannot like Destiny-type games AND Mass Effect, etc. People have very diverse gaming ratest. But the question is should they target marketing to specifically attempt to attract fans of previous Bioware RPG's?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 24, 2018 20:54:50 GMT
But the question is should they target marketing to specifically attempt to attract fans of previous Bioware RPG's? Ideally, no. But what they actually do is try to split the difference, compromise, cover all bases, toss a bone to the old guard, and basically make do with a very minimal marketing budget. First of all, they would deny that Anthem isn't character-driven storytelling like any good old Bioware game. So if that's what "traditional Bioware fans" want, they'll get it with Anthem. See what I mean by splitting the difference? Second of all, "traditional Bioware fans" are not a monolith. There is the Mass Effect crowd, the Dragon Age crowd, the Baldur's Gate "when CRPGs were good" crowd, and then a bunch of splinter groups off those crowds. And of course, a lot of overlap, but not so much you can just lump then all together into "traditional." Given that mess, how exactly are they to spend what few marketing dollars they get from penny-pinching EA? Finally, there's the bottom line, literally. There's only two possible business cases. One: "traditional RPGs" (read, DA and ME) will generate modest to flat ROI (in term of revenue) and all significant revenue growth has to come from live service and/or MP games or other high potential ROI investments, or Two: "traditional RPGs" will decline in revenue and/or will have reduced I in order to maintain ROI, and live service and/or MP games have to make up the difference AND provide growth. Neither one of those cases would justify spending marketing dollars on traditional RPG fans. Corollary, DA and ME will look less and less like traditional RPGs as time goes on. For example, they'll shift to more Action RPG in style. Arguably this has already happened between DAO and DAI.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 24, 2018 22:24:54 GMT
No.
There is no one group of people out there with the exact same tastes I think the internet commentators need to grow up and understand that. They are welcome to speak for themselves in what they want to see, but I am getting extremely tired of people claiming they are speaking for me. I have been playing BioWare games for decades now I am pretty sure I would classify as a traditional BioWare fan as well and I am okay with the coverage, it just hasn't made my decision final yet.
Just because what they are showing isn't what those people want to see my response is tough. Those systems might not be finished or ready for show yet and they are showing what they want to or have far enough along in development they want to demonstrate.
If there are specific things people want to see before buying the game, do the unimaginable and wait for the game to be released and then look for information elsewhere. There will be plenty of YouTube coverage criticizing every aspect of the game so they can see how horrible everything is for themselves.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 25, 2018 2:38:21 GMT
My assumption was that "Bioware fans" primarily played their games for the story and branching options in choices. It didn't necessarily matter how they handled the gameplay. If the issue more or less lies in the fact that the game is multiplayer-centric, then I think fans who dislike this method of play will have to continue waiting until the next single-player Bioware game comes out; which they're already working on. I mean, Bioware already split the baby (on that front) with Anthem, as you can play most of the game entirely solo from what it sounds like. Can't really do anything about there not being romances or companions, but I imagine Bioware envisioned that having people (specifically friends) to play with would ultimately serve as your companions. That might make it less of a personal experience, but I don't think anyone can deny that it does still create experiences.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2018 4:24:07 GMT
My assumption was that "Bioware fans" primarily played their games for the story and branching options in choices. It didn't necessarily matter how they handled the gameplay. If the issue more or less lies in the fact that the game is multiplayer-centric, then I think fans who dislike this method of play will have to continue waiting until the next single-player Bioware game comes out; which they're already working on. I mean, Bioware already split the baby (on that front) with Anthem, as you can play most of the game entirely solo from what it sounds like. Can't really do anything about there not being romances or companions, but I imagine Bioware envisioned that having people (specifically friends) to play with would ultimately serve as your companions. That might make it less of a personal experience, but I don't think anyone can deny that it does still create experiences. I play BioWare games because I like the entire package, they all have flaws and at the same time still are enjoyable to play. Some of it has to deal with dialogue and some of it is companions. Rarely can I point at a specific thing and go "that is why I play a BioWare game". Just because BioWare has said there won't be romances or that we won't have followers that go into combat with us, it doesn't mean that when I play the final product it won't have the same feeling I get.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 25, 2018 4:33:55 GMT
They should want as many people as possible to buy their games so... Yes?
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Post by SofaJockey on Jun 25, 2018 6:02:49 GMT
Received somewhat of a kicking over that tweet, Being called 'petulant', 'entitled' etc. (fine, I'm not angry about that) I thought the point was a little more nuanced than that, but Twitter is hardly a place to allow a point to breathe. To my mind, Anthem's marketing has leaned in more to the Destiny/Division fans and I get that, story comes later and the concept needs to be shared. But it just seemed to me that channel's that cover Destiny were predominantly getting the hands-on demos, and those channel that traditionally cover BioWare games were getting a little less love. This video from ladyinsanity sums up some of the concern that lingers for me: I wasn't saying that BioWare that shouldn't make Anthem exactly as they are making it. Nor that they should not reach out to other appropriate player bases. I just think that the marketing could educate, address and help a wide selection of past BioWare fans to enjoy the game, and perhaps in time, it will. I'll be playing the game, but I think the marketing may leave some 'traditional' BioWare fans behind, perhaps unnecessarily.
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Post by PillarBiter on Jun 25, 2018 6:23:46 GMT
Bioware's marketing has always been abhorrent.
I do feel like they're trying to avoid mistakes they made in the past, but in this process are making new mistakes. In any case, Bioware actually has a luxury problem. They have such devoted fans, which is both a blessing and a curse. At worst, they're entitled, at best, they'll preorder en masse regardless of what you churn out.
In my humbly opinion, bioware should do whatever the ef they want to do. And fans can choose whether or not they like that. And act accordingly.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2018 6:30:01 GMT
The question I always have when people that keep talking about content they want to see. Are you willing to see unfinished content to demonstrate what you want to see. I remember how people were reacting to the fake VoIP trailer from E3 2017 and how people didn't like that and complained about how fake it is. Would you want to see the content you would like to see demonstrated at the same level of quality because it is just as unfinished?
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Post by Kedan on Jun 25, 2018 15:50:43 GMT
“Know your audience”. Should BioWare attempt to appeal to its RPG fans? Of course. More customers, more money. Should they focus on those fans? Probably not. Nothing I’ve seen so far suggests that Anthem was designed to appeal to those folks, so they probably aren’t the target audience. Anthem appears to be designed for the crowd that likes to go out with other people, shoot thing to get loot, and then go out and shoot things with the new loot. That’s who BioWare should be focusing their market budget on. They should be showing folks how the shooting will be fun and exciting, and giving examples of the cool loot to chase.
That isn’t to say they can’t throw a shoutout to story and character fans now and again, probably via convention showings and interviews, but the bulk of their money should focus on fans of the primary engagement loop. To do otherwise is to risk diluting their message and garnering less interest from either crowd.
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 25, 2018 18:08:01 GMT
Honestly, the old fans are probably keeping an eye on Anthem anyway if only because they’re watching Bioware generally for the next Dragon Age or other.
It’s probably a better use of advertising budget to focus on the Destiny-Division-Warframe-Monster Hunter fans who otherwise wouldn’t pay much mind to a game from Bioware.
That said, I imagine we’ll see something that shows the story component a bit more before release.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 25, 2018 18:12:49 GMT
I think it's best to expand the fanbase while making sure to keep its core elements that made Bioware who they are.
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Post by biggydx on Jun 25, 2018 19:12:50 GMT
My assumption was that "Bioware fans" primarily played their games for the story and branching options in choices. It didn't necessarily matter how they handled the gameplay. If the issue more or less lies in the fact that the game is multiplayer-centric, then I think fans who dislike this method of play will have to continue waiting until the next single-player Bioware game comes out; which they're already working on. I mean, Bioware already split the baby (on that front) with Anthem, as you can play most of the game entirely solo from what it sounds like. Can't really do anything about there not being romances or companions, but I imagine Bioware envisioned that having people (specifically friends) to play with would ultimately serve as your companions. That might make it less of a personal experience, but I don't think anyone can deny that it does still create experiences. I play BioWare games because I like the entire package, they all have flaws and at the same time still are enjoyable to play. Some of it has to deal with dialogue and some of it is companions. Rarely can I point at a specific thing and go "that is why I play a BioWare game". Just because BioWare has said there won't be romances or that we won't have followers that go into combat with us, it doesn't mean that when I play the final product it won't have the same feeling I get. That's fine man. I'm kinda the same way, and I've played pretty much every Bioware game since Jade Empire. I think a good number of Bioware fans equate modern Bioware with romances and companions, so I used the subject of story as a focal point for most Bioware fans; as there is overlap. As for me, I'm not bothered by the fact that the game doesn't have companions or romance options. I think expecting it to be in every single Bioware title is kinda unrealistic. Even on this front, Casey Hudson said there may be potential romances in future Anthem content. I couldn't care regardless, but I know some people still do.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 25, 2018 19:24:45 GMT
But it just seemed to me that channel's that cover Destiny were predominantly getting the hands-on demos, and those channel that traditionally cover BioWare games were getting a little less love. Who says EA marketing sucks? That sounds like somebody in marketing was on the ball. This is all consistent with distancing new Bioware from old Bioware. Which, as I argued above, is both expected and necessary. It won’t matter if some traditional fans are left behind, if they pick up higher value fans (read recurring revenue spenders) at least 1 for 1, though the potential is there for many to 1. Obviously, they aren’t purposely trying to alienate traditional fans and are trying to throw enough bones to at least keep them from going full ME3 ending riot mode. If true fans choose to be alienated anyway, that’s probably an acceptable loss businesswise.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jun 25, 2018 21:51:58 GMT
Honestly, the old fans are probably keeping an eye on Anthem anyway if only because they’re watching Bioware generally for the next Dragon Age or other. It’s probably a better use of advertising budget to focus on the Destiny-Division-Warframe-Monster Hunter fans who otherwise wouldn’t pay much mind to a game from Bioware. That said, I imagine we’ll see something that shows the story component a bit more before release. I believe pretty much the same. They need to target a larger consumer base to sell well enough, just like they did with some of marketing around ME3. Fans are always watching/lurking, just like we did during the E3.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 25, 2018 22:17:16 GMT
So for Anthem to be successful, will it be necessary to attract in the people who loved Mass Effect or SWTOR or Dragon Age? Or should they be trying to attract people who have never been interested in most Bioware games? Anthem's success or failure will be irrespective of its ability to attract "traditional Bioware fans", and it's not really there to fill that niche, so it makes sense to market to looter-shooter fans, because those are the people who are going to put the money into it that they want put into it.
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Post by river82 on Jun 25, 2018 22:38:27 GMT
But the question is should they target marketing to specifically attempt to attract fans of previous Bioware RPG's? Corollary, DA and ME will look less and less like traditional RPGs as time goes on. For example, they'll shift to more Action RPG in style. Arguably this has already happened between DAO and DAI. ME:2, which then spilled over to DA:2.
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 25, 2018 22:58:55 GMT
Maybe with some people, but honestly I know more people that are "we will see with Anthem" and also "screw Fallout 76, not for me". So if that is satisfying skeptical fans, I am not sure.
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Post by Lazarillo on Jun 25, 2018 23:56:45 GMT
Maybe with some people, but honestly I know more people that are "we will see with Anthem" and also "screw Fallout 76, not for me". So if that is satisfying skeptical fans, I am not sure. That's kind of the point of the article. Not that Bethesda did a better job about getting people excited, but a better job at getting the game's target audience excited. The drew very clear lines about what kind of game it was and what to look forward to. And yes, that made a lot of traditional Fallout fans unhappy, but Bethesda also had "there will be something for our more traditional players coming down the pipeline" as well. Whereas BW stuck to the same marketing jargon they've been using with Anthem for the last year or so: "it's a looter-shooter, but by BW, so it'll be totally different, guys, you'll see!". They tried to play it off as the best of both worlds, but the audience was no-sold on unsubstantiated promises, so it just came off as wishy-washy.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 26, 2018 0:23:05 GMT
I agree that Bethesda took a very different, one might say conservative, approach to telling fans that the new game is targeted at a new audience. I disagree that Bioware made an own goal while Bethesda sweeped the Cup. Judging by the uproar in the Fallout fan base, I think if anything Bioware’s approach was proven the more savvy one. Better to leave your core with a lot of questions (which Bioware has been addressing aggressively after the fact) than leave them flooding Reddit with petitions and complaints.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 26, 2018 0:27:38 GMT
Maybe with some people, but honestly I know more people that are "we will see with Anthem" and also "screw Fallout 76, not for me". So if that is satisfying skeptical fans, I am not sure. That's kind of the point of the article. Not that Bethesda did a better job about getting people excited, but a better job at getting the game's target audience excited. The drew very clear lines about what kind of game it was and what to look forward to. And yes, that made a lot of traditional Fallout fans unhappy, but Bethesda also had "there will be something for our more traditional players coming down the pipeline" as well. Whereas BW stuck to the same marketing jargon they've been using with Anthem for the last year or so: "it's a looter-shooter, but by BW, so it'll be totally different, guys, you'll see!". They tried to play it off as the best of both worlds, but the audience was no-sold on unsubstantiated promises, so it just came off as wishy-washy. Not for the intended audience. The Destiny and Division folks I’ve seen are mildly positive and curious, which is a fantastic result, considering how jaded that segment is.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Jun 26, 2018 2:04:27 GMT
Just some things:he praise Bethesda for saying that FO76 will have a story but don't mention the lack of NPC, which makes me wonder the game will only have fetch quests. HE also doesn't mention how Casey already said ME wasn't dead or how Mark is on twitter answering questions everyday.
Did he wait until now, 2 weeks after the E3, to release the article without updated information? That was weird.
Anyway, he also mention how amazing the demo seems to be. That seems to be the patern between people at the E3. Too bad EA/Bioware didn't put the whole footage to the public.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 26, 2018 4:39:53 GMT
Maybe with some people, but honestly I know more people that are "we will see with Anthem" and also "screw Fallout 76, not for me". So if that is satisfying skeptical fans, I am not sure. That's kind of the point of the article. Not that Bethesda did a better job about getting people excited, but a better job at getting the game's target audience excited. The drew very clear lines about what kind of game it was and what to look forward to. And yes, that made a lot of traditional Fallout fans unhappy, but Bethesda also had "there will be something for our more traditional players coming down the pipeline" as well. Whereas BW stuck to the same marketing jargon they've been using with Anthem for the last year or so: "it's a looter-shooter, but by BW, so it'll be totally different, guys, you'll see!". They tried to play it off as the best of both worlds, but the audience was no-sold on unsubstantiated promises, so it just came off as wishy-washy. With how people reacted to the romance and combat companion things you should know exactly how people would have reacted and the YouTube videos that would have sprung up in moment about how "BioWare hates its fans" and other garbage. I don't see how Bethesda got people excited when more people are still wanting to know more about Anthem, but are going to ignore Fallout 76 because they were told its not for them. BioWare has made comments about Anthem, but they are always conveniently ignored until its something that makes clickbait and those are the only things remembered. They have talked about the conversation system, how it won't have romances, they are aiming for deep friendships with NPCs just not having combat companions. They have said plenty to get people interested if they actually wanted to be. Unlike Bethesda where people will cheer if they completely gut a game franchise for money, BioWare has to be careful because people will bitch and moan about anything in the game even if it was something they were asking for before. I remember how bent out of shape people got when Cassandra beat down a keep door herself in an early Dragon Age: Inquisition video or how people kept ignoring what BioWare was saying with "we will say more when we can" about Andromeda DLC. They would have taken anything BioWare said and twisted it to their own personal narrative and then tried to make clickbait YouTube money instead of actually talking about what BioWare said just their version of it.
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
N5
Uncle Cyan
Dang it.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: griffonclaw39
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Cyan_Griffonclaw
Dang it.
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griffonclaw39
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
griffonclaw39
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Post by Cyan_Griffonclaw on Jun 26, 2018 5:44:57 GMT
No. There is no one group of people out there with the exact same tastes I think the internet commentators need to grow up and understand that. They are welcome to speak for themselves in what they want to see, but I am getting extremely tired of people claiming they are speaking for me. I have been playing BioWare games for decades now I am pretty sure I would classify as a traditional BioWare fan as well and I am okay with the coverage, it just hasn't made my decision final yet. Just because what they are showing isn't what those people want to see my response is tough. Those systems might not be finished or ready for show yet and they are showing what they want to or have far enough along in development they want to demonstrate. If there are specific things people want to see before buying the game, do the unimaginable and wait for the game to be released and then look for information elsewhere. There will be plenty of YouTube coverage criticizing every aspect of the game so they can see how horrible everything is for themselves. For Anthem, I agree. This is BioWare's attempt to do something like Jade Empire and I'm ready. Okay... Andromeda was a complete bust for me thanks to killing the DLC. ME3, I got over it with the Extended Ending. I got over Inquisition's rough start on PC, but damn... they filled it out. I love all the one-and-done Black Isle games and the Baldur's Gate series, but screw playing another isometric game when you have Frostbite. I'm in wait and see mode and I KNOW there will be YouTube criticisms (though I sense some of the critics will be looking for SJW stuff while others delve into the storytelling) and I don't expect them to turn into a feeding frenzy for negative reasons. Actually, I'm pretty sure the reception is going to be positive despite EA's fricking ridiculous sorry PR.
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