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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 21, 2018 0:13:22 GMT
No comment one way or the other on the quality of Deception itself, but one of the biggest reasons I hope none of the comics charactes play major roles in Dragon Age 4 is a growing weariness over continuing storylines across different multimedia in general. Stories where you have to buy every comic, movie, TV show, video game, and so on in order to get the whole picture strikes me as lazy, greedy, and manipulative on the part of such creators. Not to mention all the fans who support such practices. I don’t have a problem with it so long as they explain everything the player needs to know in the game. For example I think BioWare learned from Masked Empire when they did Nexus Uprising. You learn a lot about what happened during the events and the people involved in MEA enough that you aren’t missing anything, while the book just gives more details for those who want to know more.
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Post by Walter Black on Nov 21, 2018 18:27:50 GMT
No comment one way or the other on the quality of Deception itself, but one of the biggest reasons I hope none of the comics charactes play major roles in Dragon Age 4 is a growing weariness over continuing storylines across different multimedia in general. Stories where you have to buy every comic, movie, TV show, video game, and so on in order to get the whole picture strikes me as lazy, greedy, and manipulative on the part of such creators. Not to mention all the fans who support such practices. I don’t have a problem with it so long as they explain everything the player needs to know in the game. For example I think BioWare learned from Masked Empire when they did Nexus Uprising. You learn a lot about what happened during the events and the people involved in MEA enough that you aren’t missing anything, while the book just gives more details for those who want to know more. Perhaps, but the Dragon Age writing team has proven mercurial in cherry picking which Expanded Universe stories they consider canon, Patrick Weekes in particular. His Cole didn't really strike me as the logical progression from who the character had become at the end of Asunder. Honestly, if Patrick wanted a Spirit of Compassion who was so different from the Ghost of the Spire, I would have preferred that he created a new character. Even worse, Weekes didn't keep his own characters consistent from The Masked Empire to Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts. It made zero sense for Briala not to inform us of Celene's murder of her parents or massacre of the Halamshiral Alienage, but he retconned it so players could have a "happy" lesbian power couple . If Weekes really cared about giving DA more positive lesbian relationships, he would have given Briala a new healthier, caring and more honest partner, instead of giving players the option to force the Idiot Ball on her and return her to her abuser. Given all this, I don't have much faith Weekes won't try to shove other round characters into his square stories .
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melbella
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Nov 21, 2018 18:43:25 GMT
Again Briala gets a free pass when she's just as bad as Celene and Gaspard. More relevant to the plot in DAI would be the fact that Briala could have prevented the civil war by allowing Michel to kill Gaspard but instead she played her blackmail card and the war went on. For years. Yeah, she's a great person.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 21, 2018 19:46:22 GMT
I was going to type out a post about why I reunited Celene and Briala AFTER reading The Masked Empire, but this is not really the place for that debate.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 21, 2018 20:23:39 GMT
No comment one way or the other on the quality of Deception itself, but one of the biggest reasons I hope none of the comics charactes play major roles in Dragon Age 4 is a growing weariness over continuing storylines across different multimedia in general. Stories where you have to buy every comic, movie, TV show, video game, and so on in order to get the whole picture strikes me as lazy, greedy, and manipulative on the part of such creators. Not to mention all the fans who support such practices. Just for curiosity but does it apply Maevaris Tilani and Rasaan too? Both are original comic figures but their previous comic story don´t sound that relevant for DA 4. But doesn´t mean they couldn´t have major roles. Maevaris could be an companion and Rasan a major Villian in DA 4.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Nov 21, 2018 20:41:00 GMT
No comment one way or the other on the quality of Deception itself, but one of the biggest reasons I hope none of the comics charactes play major roles in Dragon Age 4 is a growing weariness over continuing storylines across different multimedia in general. Stories where you have to buy every comic, movie, TV show, video game, and so on in order to get the whole picture strikes me as lazy, greedy, and manipulative on the part of such creators. Not to mention all the fans who support such practices. Just for curiosity but does it apply Maevaris Tilani and Rasaan too? Both are original comic figures but their previous comic story don´t sound that relevant for DA 4. But doesn´t mean they couldn´t have major roles. Maevaris could be an companion and Rasan a major Villian in DA 4.
Depends on how well they establish them in game and how well the events of the comic (to the extent that they are relevant) are explained. One of DAI’s failings was insufficient exposure to the characters of Briala, Gaspard, and Celene (not to mention to context of their conflict and how each affected the nation) before needing to make a decision. You really had to read the book in order to have more than a superficial idea who those characters were.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 21, 2018 21:12:38 GMT
Depends on how well they establish them in game and how well the events of the comic (to the extent that they are relevant) are explained. I would argue that for Maevaris only the parts in DAI and the Trespasser Epilogue really matter. The events in the Gaider Comics maybe for some random conversations. For examble it could be mentioned that she is the widow of Varrics cousin Thorold.
And Rasaan? Well it depends if Isabela makes a return or not. But i don´t think its really necessary that we have to know this Comic.
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Post by Iddy on Nov 23, 2018 13:01:07 GMT
Rogues, rogues, rogues and more rogues.
We haven't had a comic that doesn't revolve around them since the first ones with Alistair.
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Post by Iddy on Nov 23, 2018 13:03:12 GMT
Again Briala gets a free pass when she's just as bad as Celene and Gaspard. More relevant to the plot in DAI would be the fact that Briala could have prevented the civil war by allowing Michel to kill Gaspard but instead she played her blackmail card and the war went on. For years. Yeah, she's a great person. Well, that's not exactly fair. Briala is driven by a noble goal, while Celene and Gaspard place reputation and power above everything else.
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Post by Iddy on Nov 23, 2018 13:08:24 GMT
I was wondering, though, how many characters have they actually used as companions that were introduced before the game in which they appeared? Not sure of the timescale with Stolen Throne but it was pretty much released around the same time as DAO wasn't it? The only carry over possible companion from that book was Loghain. The Architect was a carry over antagonist from The Calling, Tallis was a carry over companion from the video series but she was confined to a DLC. Then we have Cassandra, from another video but already familiar to us from DA2, and Cole, from Asunder, in DAI. That is about it. Most characters first appearing in other media play cameo roles at most in subsequent games. The majority of our companions have been either new to the world in the game in which they appeared or carried over from previous games. What about Cole? He is a companion that started out as a book character. Same goes for Solas, though we didn't know it was him at the time.
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Post by wickedcool on Nov 23, 2018 13:08:33 GMT
Does this feel like a prequel to da4
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2018 17:38:36 GMT
What about Cole? He is a companion that started out as a book character I did mention him, along with Cassandra, as a character that had been introduced in other media before the game in which they appear as a companion. However, as Walter Black points out, Cole didn't really feel like the character that was introduced in Asunder, particularly the way he came across in the final chapter, but even to the extent of how he keeps reading people's minds in DAI. There was no sign of that in Asunder and the only really remarkable thing about him there was his ability to make people forget him. As for Solas, we only really had it confirmed in Trespasser that he was the sinister presence at the end of Masked Empire and there was really no hint of his character in that book since we did not know until the end of DAI that he was in fact the Dread Wolf. Even so, most of Felassan's stories seemed to feed into the traditional Dalish view of him as a trickster and somewhat shady character, which was odd in a way considering Briala shouldn't know much about him at all having been brought up as a servant. However, I gather that the original concept of Solas was as a more obviously shifty individual, which would account for why he still appeared that way in Masked Empire (which would have had to have been completed some time before DAI came out) but had mellowed somewhat as a result of the extra development of his character via the romance. I think we get more of an idea how he was originally envisaged with the dialogue tree he uses for an Inquisitor he doesn't like.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 23, 2018 18:50:07 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2018 19:05:52 GMT
Horray, so they've finally got back to the original concept of Qunari in badass armour. One of the codices in DAO mentioned how they had this glittering armour that was superior to anything seen previously in Thedas and then in the subsequent games they were practically naked. It was understandable in DA2 since they had been shipwrecked and probably lost most of their gear but the DLC pack Spoils of the Qunari was definitely a disappointment where I was concerned. Mind you the armour in the pictures still doesn't look like what I envisaged from the codices
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 23, 2018 19:30:26 GMT
I have to admit, I'm surprised at how it seems the invasion will be starting near the beginning of the issue rather than at the end. I hope nothing bad happens to Aaron or Vaea (also way to abandon them Dorian, you jerk). Speaking of, my love and respect towards Vaea's character continues to grow. I love how she reacted to the things going on.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 23, 2018 20:04:42 GMT
(also way to abandon them Dorian, you jerk). I think it's smart for him to get out of the city while the getting's good. The qunari absolutely will slay a Tevinter mage on sight, even if they try to surrender, but they might take three non-mage humans and an elf as prisoners. And that offers the opportunity to escape.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2018 20:51:05 GMT
(also way to abandon them Dorian, you jerk). I think it's smart for him to get out of the city while the getting's good. The qunari absolutely will slay a Tevinter mage on sight, even if they try to surrender, but they might take three non-mage humans and an elf as prisoners. And that offers the opportunity to escape.
Still I'm surprised the city isn't better prepared for the arrival of the Qunari. It is one of the major port cities in the Imperium and a place of extreme strategic importance on the eastern side of the Nocen Sea, not some minor fishing village. Where are the intelligence reports? Where are their armed forces. Why didn't they see a bunch of armed Qunari sneaking up to the gates?
It is also Dorian's home city so I would have thought he would be one of the leading Magisters responsible for its defence. So saying goodbye and good luck not just to his erstwhile allies but the city itself would seem to me to be dereliction of duty. So much for loving his country. To be honest if it was that easy to conquer it wouldn't have taken the Qunari this long to get around to it.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 23, 2018 21:09:59 GMT
They’ve known since Issue 1 that the qunari were gearing up to invade the city. Dorian relayed reports of qunari warships. There obviously is an intelligence operatus in play here, but the force bearing down on Qarinus is too strong to withstand.
(I don't feel like that necessitates a spoiler.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 23, 2018 22:27:22 GMT
Just saying that if they know the Qunari are coming then they would gear up their defences and it wouldn't be over without Tevinter putting up some decent sort of fight. It was why direct warfare has been at stalemate between the two for so long. The reason the last assault on the mainland against Qarinus failed was that "whilst they initially made great progress", eventually "as always" they were "torn apart by Tevinter legions heavily reinforced by mages". That assault was made by an entire fleet of warships, including 12 dreadnoughts, led by the Kathaban (chief naval commander). So this is why even if that initial assault seemed to be successful, history has shown that Tevinter should be able to successfully repel them provided they have enough mages present to bolster their soporati troops. Since Dorian is present in the city, I would naturally expect him to be one of those mages, as would the Senate. For him to depart at the first sign of trouble would not be viewed well back in Minrathous, to put it mildly.
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melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
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Post by melbella on Nov 23, 2018 23:12:55 GMT
Well, that's not exactly fair. Briala is driven by a noble goal, while Celene and Gaspard place reputation and power above everything else.
Her goals are irrelevant when she uses the same tactics as the others to achieve them. She sent her own people to be massacred at the Winter Palace lest they rat out her relationship with Celene so, no, she doesn't get a pass.
I wish I could kill all 3 stooges in the game but alas, 2 is the maximum allowed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 23, 2018 23:32:37 GMT
(also way to abandon them Dorian, you jerk). I think it's smart for him to get out of the city while the getting's good. The qunari absolutely will slay a Tevinter mage on sight, even if they try to surrender, but they might take three non-mage humans and an elf as prisoners. And that offers the opportunity to escape.
It just seems to go against his character, since we know he is not one to run away from a fight if he is needed and would move heaven and earth to help his allies and friends.
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Post by thats1evildude on Nov 24, 2018 0:00:11 GMT
It just seems to go against his character, since we know he is not one to run away from a fight if he is needed and would move heaven and earth to help his allies and friends. But the likelihood of the qunari outright executing the whole group increases significantly if they are found in the presence of an unbound mage. Remember Ketojan from DA2?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 24, 2018 0:01:37 GMT
It just seems to go against his character, since we know he is not one to run away from a fight if he is needed and would move heaven and earth to help his allies and friends. But the likelihood of the qunari outright executing the whole group increases significantly if they are found in the presence of an unbound mage. Remember Ketojan from DA2? It wouldn’t really matter though since both Olivia and Calix are dressed like mages anyway.
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Post by theascendent on Nov 24, 2018 0:06:17 GMT
I think that he is forgoing his involvement in the break in, which might have been necessary considering they are breaking into the house of a reclusive and likely very powerful Mage to help defend the city. If the Qunari take the city too fast then the others won't have time to finish. He would lose too much clout if he was to abandon the city without a fight. As he is one of the highest ranking Magisters present he is obligated to defend his country, not perform a favour for the Inquisition, who are his friends, but he needs to help save his people from an enemy that is obsessed with destroying his nation. He knows that he probably won't win, but he'll be able to buy enough time for the Tevinters to break the initial assault and likely bog the Qunari down into a lengthy siege, tying them up until reinforcements can come.
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nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Nov 24, 2018 7:45:23 GMT
I think that he is forgoing his involvement in the break in, which might have been necessary considering they are breaking into the house of a reclusive and likely very powerful Mage to help defend the city. If the Qunari take the city too fast then the others won't have time to finish. He would lose too much clout if he was to abandon the city without a fight. As he is one of the highest ranking Magisters present he is obligated to defend his country, not perform a favour for the Inquisition, who are his friends, but he needs to help save his people from an enemy that is obsessed with destroying his nation. Let me reassure everyone that this is exactly correct. Dorian would never abandon the city. He simply can't help Ser Aaron and his team, because he has to defend the city. On a broader level, glad to see that most here are enjoying the comic. Thanks!
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