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Post by griffith82 on Sept 18, 2018 14:38:51 GMT
But didn't ME2 entirely ignore the squadmates from ME1? The Conduit and Vigil did get a passing mention, but somehow the fact that a Spectre had a firsthand report was ignored.
I'll grant you that the Crucible was a magic plot device. Then again, can you come up with something that could wipe out the Reapers? Once they've invaded, there's literally no way out. And it was set up in ME2...
Oh ME2 ignored a lot. I am not claiming otherwise. I am simply saying that ME3 had TWO previous games and basically ignored both of them. ME3 was supposed to be the conclusion of the trilogy and yet it was treated like it's own story. Yeah I don't agree with a single word of that except Harbinger should have had dialogue. Ilos doesn't need to be mentioned as it was discussed in ME2 but it was briefly in LOTSB. Also you talk to Javik about it. The collectors are mentioned and seen so I don try know what you are on about. The other characters you mentioned evolved. Also it was about building allies you are focusing on the ending that you don't like. Of course you don't. No offense but you are clearly incredibly biased on this matter. Ilos DID need to be addressed considering the entire purpose of the final mission was to get to the Citadel. This would have been a perfect way to tie ME3 in to ME1 - use the reapers own system against them and get to the Citadel in a similar way that they used to in a surprise attack. This should have at least been discussed in the game about why we can't use the conduit on the final mission of ME3. And I don't ever recall seeing or talking about the collectors in ME3. perhaps they were mentioned - like Ilos, in a random conversation that has no bearing on the plot and is easily miss-able. The point I was making was that they could have tried to tie in the collectors with the plot in some way to make ME2 not completely pointless. Maybe you discover that the collectors were in the process of doing something that would have turned the tide of the war but we stopped them in ME2 from doing it, maybe bring them back as minor enemies in ME3 implying that we didnt kill them all. And no it's not about the characters 'evolving'. We are talking about complete changes in their personality or beliefs occurring off screen to justify the plot. Mordin is possibly the most emotionally efficient and logical character in the series, who meticulously explains to shepard why the genophage was necessary even if you don't like it. Then suddenly in ME3 he ignores everything he said in ME2, all the justification for the genophage and screams at shepard for questioning his change in logic. Mordin in ME2 would lecture Mordin in ME3 on his stupidity. There's nothing wrong with having a character arc, in fact that's good writing. However Mordin does a complete 180 degree change off screen in between games just because the plot needed someone to cure the genophage. If anything you should have had some other salarian want to cure the genophage and Mordin be opposed to it. Then you would have to choose between Mordin and the salarians or curing the genophage. That would be a good moral dilemma, wouldn't ruin Mordin's character, and would actually make the choice between the two more difficult than it is right now where there is little reason in most playthroughs to not cure the genophage. You could even have a scenario where you could possibly persuade Mordin to let you cure the genophage and if you have all the necessary prerequisites he begrudgingly allows you to do it even if he's not entirely convinced. that would be much more believable for his character. Legion's problem is simply - he explains in ME2 that the true geth would never side with the reapers because that was what separated them from the heretics. In ME3 they suddenly side with the reapers to fight the quarians. First off, Legion explains that this is to avoid destruction by the quarians... which is a horrible justification because that means the geth are a huge liability. Think about it, what is to stop them from joining the reapers again if the reapers start to win the war (which they already were)? In fact the reapers were already pretty much guaranteed to win the war unless the crucible could help somehow. This also means that if shepard had not intervened, the geth would have joined the reapers in their crusade to wipe out all advanced life in the galaxy. Second, the geth had no reason to even fight the quarians to begin with and thus no real reason to need to join up with the reapers. Remember not only could this war have been avoided in the previous game by negotiating with the quarians when we they had the chance, but the geth admit that they don't need Rannoch. So why are they occupying a useless planet when they know it's the catalyst for the entire geth/quarian war that's been going on for 300 years? Just leave the planet. And when the quarians did finally attack, why did the geth stay on Rannoch and join the reapers? Why not flee and THEN if the quarians pursue them, join the reapers if you absolutely have to? Or seek out shepard to help convince the quarians to stop? or try to negotiate with the quarians for once? These are just random suggestions but the point is that they could have done so many different things besides staying on Rannoch for no reason and joining the reapers. Furthermore, Legion's motivation here was not just survival as he says the geth would be 'alive' with the reaper upgrade. Meaning he once again is lying about the true geth never accepting help from the reapers just because he wants the geth to be 'alive'. I would also add that this makes the geth less unique as they are now just generic robots in a sci-fi setting. You say that these are justified because 'the characters evolved' is ludicrous. Just because a character changes does not mean it can not be done poorly. And you are missing the point I made about the plot of the game. yes technically the plot is about getting allies to fight the reapers but it's mostly an illusion. No matter what choices you make the crucible always gets built and the crucible is all that matters when fighting the reapers because we already know we can't beat them conventionally which is established in the game. The issue I have here is that the plot of the game should be about finding ways to defeat the reapers yet we don't do that. We put all our eggs in to one basket and just hope that this magical device will somehow help us fight the reapers when in reality we have no idea what it does. It could just as easily help the reapers as it could help us. The game should have been totally different with the plot playing out differently depending on who you recruit. Perhaps the Salarians could help find ways of disabling the reapers through a virus, or maybe they could find ways to mimic reaper technology, maybe the quarians could do the same, or the geth, maybe the krogan could help clear planets of reaper ground forces, etc. These are just random suggestions for how the plot could change based on your choices. As it is right now nothing you do in ME3 affects the plot. You could not even recruit several races and it will not change anything. The crucible always gets built and always stops the reapers, and it's the only way to stop them. Also it's not about me not liking the ending. It's about the ending being objectively bad. Must I go through what's wrong with it again? Maybe I am but having a different opinion than you doesn't make me biased but if I am so are you. I disagree that the scenarios don't make sense. Let's leave it at we'll agree to disagree.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by michaeln7 on Sept 18, 2018 15:31:38 GMT
I'd like to be able to customize your squadmate's armor. Like, I couldn't give a Soldier squadmate something that boosts biotic powers, but I could choose something between "+10% health" or "+10% melee damage" Or an Adept or Engineer squadmate something like "+10% power recharge" or "+10% power duration"
On the cosmetic side, I'd like to be able to customize their armor colors. Their "off-duty" outfits I can understand being set-in-stone, it's their call, but I do like being able to coordinate my team's overall look.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 18, 2018 16:22:58 GMT
Of course you don't. No offense but you are clearly incredibly biased on this matter. Ilos DID need to be addressed considering the entire purpose of the final mission was to get to the Citadel. This would have been a perfect way to tie ME3 in to ME1 - use the reapers own system against them and get to the Citadel in a similar way that they used to in a surprise attack. This should have at least been discussed in the game about why we can't use the conduit on the final mission of ME3. Wait a minute.. The Conduit already fails in ME1 -- remember the timer in the final run to use it? -- and nobody in Citadel space knows how it works, so there's no reason to think that anyone could repair it. I suppose a line should have been tossed in about how it wasn't working anymore for players who forgot about that. You have two different points here. One is that using the Conduit in ME3 would have been desirable, and the other is that not using the Conduit needs to be explained. The latter isn't much of a point, but you could still make a case for the former. Skip the battle for Earth and substitute -- what? An outright rerun of ME1's ending? Or Mordin's "logic" in ME2 was just a pile of self-justifying b.s.. We don't have the data to analyze this ourselves. Horrible justification meaning that Shepard shouldn't have trusted them? Maybe. A player doesn't have to trust them, so this is moot. Horrible justification meaning the geth shouldn't or wouldn't have done it? I don't see it.
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Post by Radec on Sept 18, 2018 21:09:49 GMT
Set it in the 22nd-23rd century MW galaxy that was already well established and made the series popular. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Canonize mid-high EMS destroy, leave it to like one mention (throwaway line like "after the Reapers were destroyed" or somesuch) and move forward from there not because I prefer it, but because it's the only ME3 ending where the setting can actually move forward in an efficient fashion. Retcon or ignore the dumbest parts of it (e.g. robopocalypse, still alive Torso Shep), along with stupid subplot eventualities (e.g. whole species dying offscreen) if need be.
Smaller scale conflicts (galactic politics/wars, criminal underworld etc.) instead of apocalypse scenarios. Overarching plot could be something like a conflict between the old guard Citadel races and the outcasts/Terminus systems for gaining galactic dominance in the wake of the Reaper conflict.
Leave Andromeda as a side-story. It's not horrible, but it's not particularly interesting, IMO (especially the antagonists).
Protagonist isn't Space Jesus. Have them be a Merc or something who grows in profile later on (but never to messiah status).
Oh and an MP Co-Op mode that's actually playable (ME3 good, MEA bad)
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N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 18, 2018 22:29:06 GMT
Also it's not about me not liking the ending. It's about the ending being objectively bad. Must I go through what's wrong with it again? I can deal with the ending because I always choose Destroy (tried Control and Synthesis one time each - haven't yet worked up to Refuse). That's why I use MEHEM. It gets me a better ending and can, if I want, entirely skip the Catalyst.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 16:02:05 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting?
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Post by Radec on Sept 19, 2018 16:46:27 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting? The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently. Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 19, 2018 17:01:46 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting? While I agree with you that I would like for there to be more alien aliens, I can understand why MEA retreaded the plot lines of the main species. This was seen as the first game in a saga, sort of a perfect place for new players to enter the series, so it makes sense that they did an abridged version of that in this game to get those players caught up. On the bright side, they wrapped up those plotlines pretty much in this game so future games can focus on new stuff.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 17:12:07 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting? The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently. Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting.Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented".
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 19, 2018 17:12:29 GMT
Oh and an MP Co-Op mode that's actually playable (ME3 good, MEA bad) Oh hell no, ME3MP is one of the worst MP's I've played. SP mechanics dont translate into a good MP in ME3, in MEA they do. I also disagree most of what you said, as those things just dont interest me anymore like they used to did after MEA. Yes, I'm one of those who sees better future in another galaxy.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 17:15:42 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting? While I agree with you that I would like for there to be more alien aliens, I can understand why MEA retreaded the plot lines of the main species. This was seen as the first game in a saga, sort of a perfect place for new players to enter the series, so it makes sense that they did an abridged version of that in this game to get those players caught up. On the bright side, they wrapped up those plotlines pretty much in this game so future games can focus on new stuff. I thought ME 3 was supposed to be the "perfect entry point for new players"? We will have to see how things turn out in Andromeda. Considering how much of a let down that game was, I am really leery of them being able to turn the saga around. If I never hear another poor, downtrodden Krogan storyline again it will still be too soon.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 19, 2018 17:28:59 GMT
While I agree with you that I would like for there to be more alien aliens, I can understand why MEA retreaded the plot lines of the main species. This was seen as the first game in a saga, sort of a perfect place for new players to enter the series, so it makes sense that they did an abridged version of that in this game to get those players caught up. On the bright side, they wrapped up those plotlines pretty much in this game so future games can focus on new stuff. I thought ME 3 was supposed to be the "perfect entry point for new players"? We will have to see how things turn out in Andromeda. Considering how much of a let down that game was, I am really leery of them being able to turn the saga around. If I never hear another poor, downtrodden Krogan storyline again it will still be too soon. It was a let down for some and a breath of fresh air for the rest of us.
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Post by Radec on Sept 19, 2018 17:37:46 GMT
The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently. Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting.Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". Thing is that if you absolutely cannot stop yourself from getting on the soapbox, weird space aliens can actually be used as a decent way to work your pet politics into the game in a more subtle (and potentially less preachy/annoying/groan inducing) fashion. Lets take the example of a hypothetical alien species that has like 5+ sexes, or uses environmental determinism (think clownfish reproduction) Imagine a male alien companion whom becomes female when its his turn in the sequence of his particular little tribal/clan/hive group to take on that role. How does it affect their identity? Do they stay the same despite the change or are their behaviors, mannerisms, perspectives, interactions etc. now entirely different? IMO far more interesting possibilities there than crudely shoehorning 21st century human gender politics into the 24th century, token characters and all.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 17:41:54 GMT
Oh and an MP Co-Op mode that's actually playable (ME3 good, MEA bad) Oh hell no, ME3MP is one of the worst MP's I've played. SP mechanics dont translate into a good MP in ME3, in MEA they do. I also disagree most of what you said, as those things just dont interest me anymore like they used to did after MEA. Yes, I'm one of those who sees better future in another galaxy. Respectfully disagree. ME3 MP had depth, nuance, and variety. MEA MP was a copy/paste rush job with no depth, nuance, or variance. The Krogan kit in ME A played exactly like the Slarian kit; save for a different power set. The trickle of additional content was lousy as well, with no brand new powers or abilities being added, and only bringing a single kit into the game at a time. Compare this to ME 3 MP where the Krogan kit actually had weight to it and an appropriate level of force behind his melee attacks (of which there was several different animations) and the first round of DLC added three brand new kits, complete with never before seen powers and abilities. All ME A brought to the table was the jetpack, which only served to shred what little team coordination there was in PUG groups as everyone was bunny hopping around like morons. Hard to believe the same team was behind both games' MP.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 17:56:19 GMT
Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". Thing is that if you absolutely cannot stop yourself from getting on the soapbox, weird space aliens can actually be used as a decent way to work your pet politics into the game in a more subtle (and potentially less preachy/annoying/groan inducing) fashion. Lets take the example of a hypothetical alien species that has like 5+ sexes, or uses environmental determinism (think clownfish reproduction) Imagine a male alien companion whom becomes female when its his turn in the sequence of his particular little tribal/clan/hive group to take on that role. How does it affect their identity? Do they stay the same despite the change or are their behaviors, mannerisms, perspectives, interactions etc. now entirely different? IMO far more interesting possibilities there than crudely shoehorning 21st century human gender politics into the 24th century, token characters and all. Precisely. A perfect example of exploring gender fluidity and differing gender roles without resorting to asinine soapboxing would be the Liir from the Sword of the Stars setting. The Liir, a species of aquatic mammals who happened to be hermaphroditic, would constantly adjust their preferred gender role (and subsequent pronoun) depending on what they were doing in their society. A Liir focusing on giving birth and nurturing the young Liir was considered a female, while a Liir that entered into the ways of combat would be considered a male, etc. They were one of the more interesting alien races I have come across in a video game. They also were able to touch on subjects like transgenderism and gender roles without shoehorning in some social commentary NPC so as to spout off real world social/political nonsense. The Liir expanded the setting they were in; made it feel more dynamic and unique. Random human NPC who talks about being trans for no other reason than to mark off a "diversity" checkbox comes across as preachy and actually hinders the game seeing as how it wrecks the players' suspension of disbelief to force in an after school special.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 18:00:50 GMT
I thought ME 3 was supposed to be the "perfect entry point for new players"? We will have to see how things turn out in Andromeda. Considering how much of a let down that game was, I am really leery of them being able to turn the saga around. If I never hear another poor, downtrodden Krogan storyline again it will still be too soon. It was a let down for some and a breath of fresh air for the rest of us. Clearly a very divisive game. Call it bland if you must, but at least ME 1 offered something for everyone; while at the same time creating a brand new IP.
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Sept 19, 2018 18:40:48 GMT
Oh hell no, ME3MP is one of the worst MP's I've played. SP mechanics dont translate into a good MP in ME3, in MEA they do. I also disagree most of what you said, as those things just dont interest me anymore like they used to did after MEA. Yes, I'm one of those who sees better future in another galaxy. Respectfully disagree. ME3 MP had depth, nuance, and variety. MEA MP was a copy/paste rush job with no depth, nuance, or variance. The Krogan kit in ME A played exactly like the Slarian kit; save for a different power set. The trickle of additional content was lousy as well, with no brand new powers or abilities being added, and only bringing a single kit into the game at a time. Compare this to ME 3 MP where the Krogan kit actually had weight to it and an appropriate level of force behind his melee attacks (of which there was several different animations) and the first round of DLC added three brand new kits, complete with never before seen powers and abilities. All ME A brought to the table was the jetpack, which only served to shred what little team coordination there was in PUG groups as everyone was bunny hopping around like morons. Hard to believe the same team was behind both games' MP. Height was one of the reasons why I didnt like it. Every kit weighted like a mountain of rocks, had way too long animations doing anything, and movement was about the same; dragging a rock behind you. Melee attacks were wayyy too long and bugged out. Guns felt like air, as they did first in MEAMP too. I didnt have endurance to play so flawed MP as ME3MP to get salarian or krogans. I just could not continue it, then the last reason; there are almost no players. MEAMP has players, fast pace, great levels, new powers and guns which surpass the old ones. I'm sorry you've encountered bunny hopping PUGs who could not coordinate the team , but now we have more dimensions, not just glued-to-floor rocks with slow as molasses animations and movement. Also: Commando - Krogan kit does not play like Salarian kit. Salarian is lighter so can evade or jump further/higher. Easy to see same team was behind (actually I dunno if they were) - they wanted to do a better MP and they succeeded in it for me (and many others). I agree there are some things which they left out, but I think it just made the game better in most ways. What I would've liked is to see more of different time of days for the levels. I like ME3SP, but MP feels like alpha test and afterthought. Originally I thought it would be something along the lines of UT2003, disapointtingly it wasnt... So yes we disagree
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 19, 2018 18:47:56 GMT
Bring back the 'alien' aliens. More focus on species like the Rachni, Elcor or Hanr and less on the "Big Five" human-like aliens. Andromeda was already a minor retread of species' plot lines from the original trilogy; the Krogan are being repressed, oh so horrible! It's not like I haven't just spent three games dealing with that exact same plot line or anything I would prefer to get some originality back into the narrative, and what better way to do that than focusing on the more unique aliens in the setting? The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently.Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting. Probably because Chris L'etoile, the writer for Legion (and Thane, EDI, and Ashley, the Noveria questline, and the codex entries) left Bioware after ME2. The only one who seemed to give a d*mn about aliens being ALIEN and who actually wanted to explore how alien species (including humans) might be different from each other.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 19, 2018 18:50:10 GMT
The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently. Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting.Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". I'm pretty sure the first question to come up if an elcor companion was ever introduced would be "can we have sex with it"?
Edit: followed closely by "can we kill it"?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 19, 2018 18:52:07 GMT
The non-humanoids were under utilized and became joke species, yes. It's a problem with all scifi in that it's difficult to write actually alien characters that normie audiences can connect with, ergo you get planet of hats and Blasto They did a decent job with Legion, but even the geth's ultimate arc was to become robo pinnochio or scrap metal (72% polymer, whatever). Leaving them as they were in ME2 was too difficult, apparently. Either actually utilize the non humanoid aliens, or don't bother putting them in as window dressing at all, and just make your human(oids) in space setting.Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". Careful, your bigotry's showing.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Sept 19, 2018 18:52:50 GMT
Thing is that if you absolutely cannot stop yourself from getting on the soapbox, weird space aliens can actually be used as a decent way to work your pet politics into the game in a more subtle (and potentially less preachy/annoying/groan inducing) fashion. Lets take the example of a hypothetical alien species that has like 5+ sexes, or uses environmental determinism (think clownfish reproduction) Imagine a male alien companion whom becomes female when its his turn in the sequence of his particular little tribal/clan/hive group to take on that role. How does it affect their identity? Do they stay the same despite the change or are their behaviors, mannerisms, perspectives, interactions etc. now entirely different? IMO far more interesting possibilities there than crudely shoehorning 21st century human gender politics into the 24th century, token characters and all. Precisely. A perfect example of exploring gender fluidity and differing gender roles without resorting to asinine soapboxing would be the Liir from the Sword of the Stars setting. The Liir, a species of aquatic mammals who happened to be hermaphroditic, would constantly adjust their preferred gender role (and subsequent pronoun) depending on what they were doing in their society. A Liir focusing on giving birth and nurturing the young Liir was considered a female, while a Liir that entered into the ways of combat would be considered a male, etc. They were one of the more interesting alien races I have come across in a video game. They also were able to touch on subjects like transgenderism and gender roles without shoehorning in some social commentary NPC so as to spout off real world social/political nonsense. The Liir expanded the setting they were in; made it feel more dynamic and unique. Random human NPC who talks about being trans for no other reason than to mark off a "diversity" checkbox comes across as preachy and actually hinders the game seeing as how it wrecks the players' suspension of disbelief to force in an after school special. Heck, Mass Effect had a chance to explore with EDI. She was voiced by Tricia Helfer, but was A FREAKING SPACESHIP!!! What does gender even mean to a being like that?
Then they turned her into a sexbot...
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 19:27:20 GMT
Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". Careful, your bigotry's showing. No. An anti PC viewpoint, maybe, but not bigoted. Humans, be they straight, gay, bi, trans, etc. are comparatively boring in a setting that has aliens like the Rachni or Hanar in it (IMO). That I don't want to see more human focused elements shoved into the game, at the expense of those 'alien' aliens is not being discriminatory its a matter of personal preference I have as a fan. To put it an other way: Humans, and all the niche pockets of diversity BioWare likes to keep showcasing, are like vanilla ice cream with rainbow sprinkles. All well and good, but boring when you realize that the dessert store is selling dozens of other ice cream flavors, frozen yogurt, italian ice, frosties, milk shakes; even several candy bars that aren't even in the same category as frozen treats but are present on the shelves. You want to go see those other options, to taste what all the different flavors and types of desserts have to offer, but the person behind the counter keeps shoving that same cup of vanilla with rainbow sprinkles in your face. They even begin removing those other flavors and separate dessert types from their inventory so that they can put up more advertising space for their special vanilla ice cream with rainbow sprinkles. This would be perfectly fine if the store only sold that one type of dessert to begin with, but the fact that they originally had a much larger variety to their menu and are now forgoing everything else for the all important vanilla flavor with rainbow sprinkles is beginning to become annoying.
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 19:29:27 GMT
Exactly. I am getting tired of BioWare teasing us with aliens like the Rachni or (ME 2) Geth only to completely ignore them in favor of more human-focused drama and 'daddy issues'. If you are going to put forth time and effort into including things like the Elcor and Hanar then actually use them. It also doesn't help that the writer behind those unique, non-human insights (Chris Le'Toile) is no longer with the company and all we are left with is 'Rule of Cool' and Cerberus > Everything writers like Mac Walters. The fact that BioWare has also become more and more progressive over the years hasn't really helped in this department either; since it's rather difficult add in a Rachni focused campaign, or Elcor companion when they're too busy trying to make sure every little trending social commentary checkbox of humanity is "adequately represented". I'm pretty sure the first question to come up if an elcor companion was ever introduced would be "can we have sex with it"?
Edit: followed closely by "can we kill it"?
And it's at times like that that Sovereign and I agree: "Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident"
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Post by Vortex13 on Sept 19, 2018 19:34:16 GMT
Precisely. A perfect example of exploring gender fluidity and differing gender roles without resorting to asinine soapboxing would be the Liir from the Sword of the Stars setting. The Liir, a species of aquatic mammals who happened to be hermaphroditic, would constantly adjust their preferred gender role (and subsequent pronoun) depending on what they were doing in their society. A Liir focusing on giving birth and nurturing the young Liir was considered a female, while a Liir that entered into the ways of combat would be considered a male, etc. They were one of the more interesting alien races I have come across in a video game. They also were able to touch on subjects like transgenderism and gender roles without shoehorning in some social commentary NPC so as to spout off real world social/political nonsense. The Liir expanded the setting they were in; made it feel more dynamic and unique. Random human NPC who talks about being trans for no other reason than to mark off a "diversity" checkbox comes across as preachy and actually hinders the game seeing as how it wrecks the players' suspension of disbelief to force in an after school special. Heck, Mass Effect had a chance to explore with EDI. She was voiced by Tricia Helfer, but was A FREAKING SPACESHIP!!! What does gender even mean to a being like that?
Then they turned her into a sexbot...
Don't remind me. Nearly all the interesting and compelling high brow science fiction concepts were taken out back behind the barn and shot as the games have gone on. I mean compare the amount of nuance and non-human elements in ME 1 and DA:O/A to ME A and DAI. Nearly all those 'alien' and 'other' ideas are gone, replaced with human focused drama and social/political commentary.
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N7Pathfinder
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Sept 19, 2018 19:44:13 GMT
It's a shame Andromeda never got a chance for DLC. I was looking forward to the Quarian DLC, and for some reason, also wanted an Andromeda Strain DLC.
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