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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Ascend on Mar 5, 2020 12:14:18 GMT
Most of the OT would not pass in [CURRENT YEAR]. ResetEra would be up in flames about how sexualized the women are and the male power fantasy etc. etc. etc. All the more reason to do it. Pandering to SJW nonsense is the last thing we should be doing. Besides. Mass Effect already got its (un)fair share of criticism; Enough. You clearly know your comment is wrong and it is becoming borderline trolling at this point. There are people that think other endings matter. DEAL WITH IT. You are correct. In fact, the majority of players did not choose destroy, docs.google.com/forms/d/1u6dvZTxEuoaNUcJubqw3P8nqXKMbWp6YQ5BcN0Vmf-k/viewanalyticsAnd even then, some users noted some irregularities with these poll numbers...; "2300ish chose Destroy but only 1600ish say they lost EDI. Yall some lying shits. Own your choices." https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/3bv39h/spoilers_poll_results_mass_effect_decision_survey/
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 5, 2020 13:11:42 GMT
Most of the OT would not pass in [CURRENT YEAR]. ResetEra would be up in flames about how sexualized the women are and the male power fantasy etc. etc. etc. All the more reason to do it. Pandering to SJW nonsense is the last thing we should be doing. Besides. Mass Effect already got its (un)fair share of criticism; Enough. You clearly know your comment is wrong and it is becoming borderline trolling at this point. There are people that think other endings matter. DEAL WITH IT. You are correct. In fact, the majority of players did not choose destroy, docs.google.com/forms/d/1u6dvZTxEuoaNUcJubqw3P8nqXKMbWp6YQ5BcN0Vmf-k/viewanalyticsAnd even then, some users noted some irregularities with these poll numbers...; "2300ish chose Destroy but only 1600ish say they lost EDI. Yall some lying shits. Own your choices." https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/3bv39h/spoilers_poll_results_mass_effect_decision_survey/ Man, motherFUCK FOX News!!!
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 18, 2020 13:40:04 GMT
Honestly at this point, I just want a clean slate. a REAL clean slate. Wipe the board and start from Go. there is just too much drama and baggage attached to this series to have a clear path forward anymore. Too many mistakes have been made along the way. Too many inconsistency's and too many hurt feelings, from everyone across the board.
What I want is a full hard reboot. No more Shepard, no more Reapers, no more Ryder or Andromeda. No more Endings bullshit and no more inconsistent Codex. Rebuild the Lore from the ground up, and start us off at the First Contact War, then just go from there, organically creating whatever story comes up. Let us humans get treated like dirt by all the "Older, wiser" aliens that know better than us (except the Asari of course because Diplomat masters). Rebuild the whole idea of Cerberus so their not so...dumb.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 18, 2020 23:28:22 GMT
Honestly at this point, I just want a clean slate. a REAL clean slate. Wipe the board and start from Go. there is just too much drama and baggage attached to this series to have a clear path forward anymore. Too many mistakes have been made along the way. Too many inconsistency's and too many hurt feelings, from everyone across the board. What I want is a full hard reboot. No more Shepard, no more Reapers, no more Ryder or Andromeda. No more Endings bullshit and no more inconsistent Codex. Rebuild the Lore from the ground up, and start us off at the First Contact War, then just go from there, organically creating whatever story comes up. Let us humans get treated like dirt by all the "Older, wiser" aliens that know better than us (except the Asari of course because Diplomat masters). Rebuild the whole idea of Cerberus so their not so...dumb. At that point, I think it might be preferable to just establish an entirely new space opera game from the ground up, with its entirely different take on technology, history and hard-magic system, if applicable. If we're going to leave Mass Effect's setting behind, I say just abandon every single scrap of it and just start a new IP from scratch. If you create a Mass Effect game that decidedly does away with any references or ties to any bit of the other games, it'll just create its own set of problems anyway. Familiarity will just breed its own brand of contempt.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 19, 2020 5:55:44 GMT
Honestly at this point, I just want a clean slate. a REAL clean slate. Wipe the board and start from Go. there is just too much drama and baggage attached to this series to have a clear path forward anymore. Too many mistakes have been made along the way. Too many inconsistency's and too many hurt feelings, from everyone across the board. What I want is a full hard reboot. No more Shepard, no more Reapers, no more Ryder or Andromeda. No more Endings bullshit and no more inconsistent Codex. Rebuild the Lore from the ground up, and start us off at the First Contact War, then just go from there, organically creating whatever story comes up. Let us humans get treated like dirt by all the "Older, wiser" aliens that know better than us (except the Asari of course because Diplomat masters). Rebuild the whole idea of Cerberus so their not so...dumb. At that point, I think it might be preferable to just establish an entirely new space opera game from the ground up, with its entirely different take on technology, history and hard-magic system, if applicable. If we're going to leave Mass Effect's setting behind, I say just abandon every single scrap of it and just start a new IP from scratch. If you create a Mass Effect game that decidedly does away with any references or ties to any bit of the other games, it'll just create its own set of problems anyway. Familiarity will just breed its own brand of contempt. I do not subscribe to the concept of "a setting needs references to survive". Mass Effect 1 did just fine without referencing Mass Effect. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is throwing the old version of history out the window, and will be better for it. If all the die hard FF7 fans are perfectly happy with a Re imagining of their all time favorite thing in the universe, there is no reason to think Mass Effect cannot also be Re imagined. You don't need to throw the Lore out, just re design it so we avoid stupid garbage like "limited ammo is more advanced than unlimited ammo" or "Space battles are artillery duels at thousands of kilometers distance, except every space battle in the series on screen is point blank slug fests". Just clean it up, make the tech rules more vague, so it's harder for them to contradict things every 5 minutes. At the end of the day, if a new IP is the only answer? So be it. I'll take the new IP. I personally, am willing to forever lay to rest, my most favorite thing in the universe, in order to get something that isn't a total mess.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 19, 2020 9:41:51 GMT
I'm not familiar with Final Fantasy, except that I know it exists and is popular. What does being an FF game mean?
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Mar 19, 2020 15:17:13 GMT
I'm not familiar with Final Fantasy, except that I know it exists and is popular. What does being an FF game mean? Hard to say. They are frequently in different worlds, different tech levels, different characters. It has some core concepts and set pieces. Like chocobo and magic being in the setting. The magic will somewhat feel the same between games though it changes and evolves, A character named sid. But some how they always feel like final fantasy.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 19, 2020 19:42:08 GMT
At that point, I think it might be preferable to just establish an entirely new space opera game from the ground up, with its entirely different take on technology, history and hard-magic system, if applicable. If we're going to leave Mass Effect's setting behind, I say just abandon every single scrap of it and just start a new IP from scratch. If you create a Mass Effect game that decidedly does away with any references or ties to any bit of the other games, it'll just create its own set of problems anyway. Familiarity will just breed its own brand of contempt. I do not subscribe to the concept of "a setting needs references to survive". Mass Effect 1 did just fine without referencing Mass Effect. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is throwing the old version of history out the window, and will be better for it. If all the die hard FF7 fans are perfectly happy with a Re imagining of their all time favorite thing in the universe, there is no reason to think Mass Effect cannot also be Re imagined. You don't need to throw the Lore out, just re design it so we avoid stupid garbage like "limited ammo is more advanced than unlimited ammo" or "Space battles are artillery duels at thousands of kilometers distance, except every space battle in the series on screen is point blank slug fests". Just clean it up, make the tech rules more vague, so it's harder for them to contradict things every 5 minutes. At the end of the day, if a new IP is the only answer? So be it. I'll take the new IP. I personally, am willing to forever lay to rest, my most favorite thing in the universe, in order to get something that isn't a total mess. I’ll admit that I’m not really a fan of that franchise, and don’t really like the whole all-over-the-place feel of it. I just don’t want Mass Effect to go down that route. If BioWare can’t be bothered to work with what they have and maintain some sense of continuity, I’d just prefer it ended.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 20, 2020 0:22:28 GMT
I do not subscribe to the concept of "a setting needs references to survive". Mass Effect 1 did just fine without referencing Mass Effect. Final Fantasy 7 Remake is throwing the old version of history out the window, and will be better for it. If all the die hard FF7 fans are perfectly happy with a Re imagining of their all time favorite thing in the universe, there is no reason to think Mass Effect cannot also be Re imagined. You don't need to throw the Lore out, just re design it so we avoid stupid garbage like "limited ammo is more advanced than unlimited ammo" or "Space battles are artillery duels at thousands of kilometers distance, except every space battle in the series on screen is point blank slug fests". Just clean it up, make the tech rules more vague, so it's harder for them to contradict things every 5 minutes. At the end of the day, if a new IP is the only answer? So be it. I'll take the new IP. I personally, am willing to forever lay to rest, my most favorite thing in the universe, in order to get something that isn't a total mess. I’ll admit that I’m not really a fan of that franchise, and don’t really like the whole all-over-the-place feel of it. I just don’t want Mass Effect to go down that route. If BioWare can’t be bothered to work with what they have and maintain some sense of continuity, I’d just prefer it ended. I mean, in a perfect world I don't want Mass Effect to go down the Reboot road either. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I personally feel like the Setting is almost damaged beyond repair. I don't see a future for this franchise with Andromeda being the only path forward. That is ultimately the problem, to me. Due to the clusterfuck this franchise has been subjected to, there is basically no flexibility for ideas. It's Andromeda or death. I will never get to walk the streets of Kar'Shan and see first hand the people and culture of the Hegemony. I will never get to explore the ocean depths of Kahje, and see the elegant Hanar dancing in the water, as Thane talked about. I'll never be able to get a game where you play as a C-Sec officer, LA Noir style, as we finally get a game solely focused on fleshing out The Citadel and all that a galactic hub has to offer. I'll never see the Quarians outside of their damn suits because a future without Rannoch means they'll likely never bother with such an idea. I'll never have the chance to see Parnack or see how the Yagh evolve and integrate into wider society. What the hell was even the point of introducing a new race that had no future, when there were already tons of races like the Batarians, the Elcor, the Volus who were all equally doomed with no future, never to be explored? Why bother creating the Raloi, knowing it's a waste of time that nothing will ever come of? Why tease the future potential of a setting that your just going to fucking piss away and abandon because you thought it would be cute to blow the whole damn thing up? All you people who act like the Milky Way had nothing going for it (pre ending) clearly didn't pay one lick of attention. ("you" in this case meaning the author, not you you). What potential does Andromeda have? A mysterious money man who everyone assumes is TIM, why? because TIM is a broken plot device with literally infinite money because screw you. The Scourge, the Protheans Version 2, and hostile alien race that is as generically evil as it gets. For all the flak ME1 gets for being a bad video game, it was light years ahead of Andromeda in terms of lore, set up, and world building. If Andromeda 2 does not pick up herculean levels of slack in this department, this franchise will die. So while you might prefer to see ME die because you would rather have references and call backs. I would rather sacrifice the history I both love and hate in order to get a second chance to fully exploit the potential that this franchise has pissed away.
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Post by Phantom on Mar 20, 2020 1:19:04 GMT
this is a rambling of ideas for Cerberus and how to modify them within MET and MEA. One of my Cerberus ideas basicly states T.I.M knew of the Initiative and subtle assist them due to events that forces Cerberus to saving Initiative in secret then they have to leave to deal with another Reaper plot but he and Cerberus are NOT the Mysterious Benefactor.(yes the Cerberus agent will see Alec Ryder, Ryder Twins and MEA Squad taking care of themselves during this)
Well This Cerberus Idea would change ME3 that Cerberus gets Replace by 2 or more Factions that serves the same purpose as ME3 Cerberus that they have the material and labor support to be a serious threat to the System Alliance and Citadel fleets and Cerberus gets reduced by a New Faction by the Request of the Reapers.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 20, 2020 16:54:04 GMT
I’ll admit that I’m not really a fan of that franchise, and don’t really like the whole all-over-the-place feel of it. I just don’t want Mass Effect to go down that route. If BioWare can’t be bothered to work with what they have and maintain some sense of continuity, I’d just prefer it ended. I mean, in a perfect world I don't want Mass Effect to go down the Reboot road either. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I personally feel like the Setting is almost damaged beyond repair. I don't see a future for this franchise with Andromeda being the only path forward. That is ultimately the problem, to me. Due to the clusterfuck this franchise has been subjected to, there is basically no flexibility for ideas. It's Andromeda or death. I'd agree that TMW is a narrative graveyard at this point. They created the setting for a trilogy, told the stories they'd planned there, and killed it on the way out. Thinking back to ME1, many of the details of the setting you mention here were not revealed until later games. The moment we left ME1's character creator, we were thrust into this world whose scope reached an entire galaxy with an established hierarchy, history and culture. We learned about it by talking to other characters, accessing Avina, and tell me about your species, Mr. Ambassador interactions. A lot of ME1 was info dump, and the way much of it was done is... less than ideal for building narrative and for roleplaying. The "show don't tell" gave way to history lessons, and Shepard needed to ask a lot of questions about things they should already know so the players could learn the answers. From time to time, the possibility of a prequel comes up, and the First Contact War is mentioned as an option. It might have been interesting to have gone through the whole process of discovering aliens for the first time, learning that there are multiple species and a form of government that spans much of the galaxy, but - we already know how all of that turned out. We were dumped into the middle of the "30 years later" the first time we loaded ME1. In Andromeda, we have the opportunity to go through the entire process, from the beginning. We can experience the prequel. At least as much at TMW ever did? We've visited but a single cluster of it thus far, and I'm hopeful that BioWare's experience with MET might prevent them from making some of the same miscalculations in Andromeda. One of the lessons I'm guessing they learned is to down-scale and not involve the entire galaxy in conflicts that arise. FTFY. Tropes, tropes, everywhere. There's a limit to archetypes and the number of unique stories that can be told. What matters is execution, and we've really not seen enough of that in Andromeda yet to know how any of it is going to pan out. As I mentioned before, that's because we were thrust into a world that spanned an entire galaxy with an established hierarchy, history, etc. - and even then, we weren't introduced to the vorcha, drell, or yahg until the second game. We're just getting started in a single cluster in Andromeda, and I think the disappointment expressed here aptly demonstrates the amount of baggage and expectations people brought to Andromeda with them. Realistically, such comparisons are unavoidable, but it would help if we could remember that MEA is more of a spin-off than a sequel, and has an entirely different premise and architecture. Speaking of references and call backs, the entire second paragraph of your post was all about them, and wanting to visit places that have never existed in any physical form - they are all just concepts at this point. Whether it would ultimately delight or further frustrate people to see them actually implemented depends entirely on the execution and perhaps how closely the actuality meets expectations - which is true of any new areas/levels they build, in whatever galaxy. In any case, I'm not sure why a disappointed fanbase would trust the same people who wrecked an entire galaxy as a setting and then went on to create a poorly received spin-off to re-boot something they're invested in. I think a poorly-received ME game in TMW would be far more destructive to the franchise than a spin-off - which is what I consider MEA to be - could ever be.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 20, 2020 21:29:17 GMT
I mean, in a perfect world I don't want Mass Effect to go down the Reboot road either. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I personally feel like the Setting is almost damaged beyond repair. I don't see a future for this franchise with Andromeda being the only path forward. That is ultimately the problem, to me. Due to the clusterfuck this franchise has been subjected to, there is basically no flexibility for ideas. It's Andromeda or death. I'd agree that TMW is a narrative graveyard at this point. They created the setting for a trilogy, told the stories they'd planned there, and killed it on the way out. Thinking back to ME1, many of the details of the setting you mention here were not revealed until later games. The moment we left ME1's character creator, we were thrust into this world whose scope reached an entire galaxy with an established hierarchy, history and culture. We learned about it by talking to other characters, accessing Avina, and tell me about your species, Mr. Ambassador interactions. A lot of ME1 was info dump, and the way much of it was done is... less than ideal for building narrative and for roleplaying. The "show don't tell" gave way to history lessons, and Shepard needed to ask a lot of questions about things they should already know so the players could learn the answers. From time to time, the possibility of a prequel comes up, and the First Contact War is mentioned as an option. It might have been interesting to have gone through the whole process of discovering aliens for the first time, learning that there are multiple species and a form of government that spans much of the galaxy, but - we already know how all of that turned out. We were dumped into the middle of the "30 years later" the first time we loaded ME1. In Andromeda, we have the opportunity to go through the entire process, from the beginning. We can experience the prequel. At least as much at TMW ever did? We've visited but a single cluster of it thus far, and I'm hopeful that BioWare's experience with MET might prevent them from making some of the same miscalculations in Andromeda. One of the lessons I'm guessing they learned is to down-scale and not involve the entire galaxy in conflicts that arise. FTFY. Tropes, tropes, everywhere. There's a limit to archetypes and the number of unique stories that can be told. What matters is execution, and we've really not seen enough of that in Andromeda yet to know how any of it is going to pan out. As I mentioned before, that's because we were thrust into a world that spanned an entire galaxy with an established hierarchy, history, etc. - and even then, we weren't introduced to the vorcha, drell, or yahg until the second game. We're just getting started in a single cluster in Andromeda, and I think the disappointment expressed here aptly demonstrates the amount of baggage and expectations people brought to Andromeda with them. Realistically, such comparisons are unavoidable, but it would help if we could remember that MEA is more of a spin-off than a sequel, and has an entirely different premise and architecture. Speaking of references and call backs, the entire second paragraph of your post was all about them, and wanting to visit places that have never existed in any physical form - they are all just concepts at this point. Whether it would ultimately delight or further frustrate people to see them actually implemented depends entirely on the execution and perhaps how closely the actuality meets expectations - which is true of any new areas/levels they build, in whatever galaxy. In any case, I'm not sure why a disappointed fanbase would trust the same people who wrecked an entire galaxy as a setting and then went on to create a poorly received spin-off to re-boot something they're invested in. I think a poorly-received ME game in TMW would be far more destructive to the franchise than a spin-off - which is what I consider MEA to be - could ever be. Except if you do a full hard reboot of the franchise, there is no longer anything to ruin or disrespect. It's a whole new reality where things fans remember literally don't matter anymore. You can do anything you want narrative wise and the fans can't correct you for contradicting something. Andromeda is not the clean slate a Hard Reboot would be, because Andromeda still must conform to the basic premise and rules of the existing franchise. Andromeda still has all the baggage that a Full Reboot by definition cannot have. Moving to another geographical location (so to speak) does not change as much as being able to go back to the beginning and re-write and re-design the setting to be better. As I said, I'll never be able to do those things. Yes, they are references and call backs. They were also ideas that were pointless, ideas that implied a long term future for the setting. Making a setting THAT detailed for a measly 3 games is a colossal waste of effort. Whats more, the fact they kept ADDING new ideas and races to a setting that they were already hell bent on abandoning as soon as humanly possible just continues to speak to this idea that some Bioware devs thought the setting was going to continue, otherwise why fucking bother? Just make the Shadow Broker a god damn Salarian or a Volus or some other pre-existing throw away species. Why even introduce Javik in ME3 when it ultimately amounts to a big Nothing Burger? Sure he has some cool lines and scenes, but again why bother? They know we the fans will never see this man again, they know he's ultimately irrelevant to the plot, they know full well by games end their going to give this entire setting a giant middle finger and walk away laughing so why in god's name are they still wasting precious dev time on world building for a setting their about to nuke into dust? That makes no logical sense! The behavior the devs had regarding the world building of this franchise is entirely counter to this idea of "The MW was only meant for 3 games the end". Really? then why did they keep ADDING to it? WHY WASTE TIME AND MONEY TO KEEP DEVELOPING A SETTING YOU HAVE NO PLANS FOR?? If the MW was truly only meant for the 3 games then Bioware is even dumber than I thought, which is damn depressing.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,869 Likes: 3,483
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2020 0:49:02 GMT
While reading polkadots post one of the comments stuck with me. About the info dump characters. They were relaying info to Shepard that he should already know.
Should he though? Ask me about German history and I’ll have a couple of bits here and there and a bit more info around WW2. Ask be about Haiti culture and history and I will know nothing at all. So why would or should Shepard know much about the volus outside some basic sterotyoes about greedy businessmen.
I wouldn’t be surprised if part of his basic training was when dealing with alien species show a interest and ask questions about their culture and history. People like to think you give a fuck.
Info dumps are effective and make sense in the story. The only issue is some of the characters that was too much of what you learn about them. Okay but not ideal for side characters. Even worse for main characters.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 21, 2020 3:13:24 GMT
While reading polkadots post one of the comments stuck with me. About the info dump characters. They were relaying info to Shepard that he should already know. Should he though? Ask me about German history and I’ll have a couple of bits here and there and a bit more info around WW2. Ask be about Haiti culture and history and I will know nothing at all. So why would or should Shepard know much about the volus outside some basic sterotyoes about greedy businessmen. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of his basic training was when dealing with alien species show a interest and ask questions about their culture and history. People like to think you give a fuck. Info dumps are effective and make sense in the story. The only issue is some of the characters that was too much of what you learn about them. Okay but not ideal for side characters. Even worse for main characters. Considering they were a candidate to become a SPECTRE, I imagine Anderson would have Shepard studying all about the alien cultures in more detail.
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N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,869 Likes: 3,483
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Post by ahglock on Mar 21, 2020 17:32:08 GMT
While reading polkadots post one of the comments stuck with me. About the info dump characters. They were relaying info to Shepard that he should already know. Should he though? Ask me about German history and I’ll have a couple of bits here and there and a bit more info around WW2. Ask be about Haiti culture and history and I will know nothing at all. So why would or should Shepard know much about the volus outside some basic sterotyoes about greedy businessmen. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of his basic training was when dealing with alien species show a interest and ask questions about their culture and history. People like to think you give a fuck. Info dumps are effective and make sense in the story. The only issue is some of the characters that was too much of what you learn about them. Okay but not ideal for side characters. Even worse for main characters. Considering they were a candidate to become a SPECTRE, I imagine Anderson would have Shepard studying all about the alien cultures in more detail. The time between potential candidate and narrative shit hitting the fan was virtually non existent. As I understand it normally the process goes on for quite some time, so yeah I'm sure Anderson would have eventually under normal circumstances.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 21, 2020 19:16:10 GMT
Considering they were a candidate to become a SPECTRE, I imagine Anderson would have Shepard studying all about the alien cultures in more detail. The time between potential candidate and narrative shit hitting the fan was virtually non existent. As I understand it normally the process goes on for quite some time, so yeah I'm sure Anderson would have eventually under normal circumstances. And let's not forget the whole reason Shepard is even a candidate is because Shepard survived something horrific, in some form. Either butchering people on Torfan, surviving Threshers or saving Elysium. None of those things requires Shepard to have in depth knowledge of Alien cultures. Shepard was nominated because they " prove they get things done". Not because they know the proper greeting to give to an Elcor Diplomat.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 21, 2020 19:50:10 GMT
While reading polkadots post one of the comments stuck with me. About the info dump characters. They were relaying info to Shepard that he should already know. Should he though? Ask me about German history and I’ll have a couple of bits here and there and a bit more info around WW2. Ask be about Haiti culture and history and I will know nothing at all. So why would or should Shepard know much about the volus outside some basic sterotyoes about greedy businessmen. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of his basic training was when dealing with alien species show a interest and ask questions about their culture and history. People like to think you give a fuck. Info dumps are effective and make sense in the story. The only issue is some of the characters that was too much of what you learn about them. Okay but not ideal for side characters. Even worse for main characters. Shepard was born in 2154 - which was 6 years after mass effect physics were discovered, 2 years after the first human colony was established, and 3 years before the First Contact War and humanity's induction into greater galactic society. Shepard grew up in a world that included aliens, and would have learned some basics about different species in grade school. On top of that, Shep was a mid-level Alliance officer, a proven N7, the XO of a technologically advanced ship, and a Spectre candidate. You don't get to that point without having some basic knowledge of the different species and a fair bit of actual contact with them. Shep's basic officer training would have included significant details about different species' military tactics & strategies, assets, capabilities, troop strengths, and liasion-ship in learning how to work with them. That's all pretty basic knowledge for someone in Shep's position. I'm perfectly willing to give a pass on Shep learning about quarians from Tali. Quarians had been in exile for - what, 300 years I think - and whatever was previously known about their culture may have changed. Shepard should have been aware of the Pilgrimage, though, since quarians on Pilgrimage were regular fixtures throughout the galaxy. Personal or in-depth questions perhaps, but not such perfunctory species related questions. If you "give a fuck", you'd already know that much - and more. If the goal is to suck up, the better approach is usually along the lines of asking them their thoughts, feelings, opinions about things - not that Shep was ever much of a suck up. I agree that info dumps are effective, and necessary to inform the player about the world. There are other ways to convey that information, though, and from time to time I see people complain about their PC appearing to be uninformed in RPGs when their chief method of accessing that information is to have the PC ask questions when they should already know the answers. That said, I'd like to point out that my purpose was not to lodge such a complaint. I was originally making the point that Andromeda gave us a world where we're actually going through the process of discovering whatever there is to be known there, instead of having it spoon-fed via info dumps.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 22, 2020 3:31:47 GMT
While reading polkadots post one of the comments stuck with me. About the info dump characters. They were relaying info to Shepard that he should already know. Should he though? Ask me about German history and I’ll have a couple of bits here and there and a bit more info around WW2. Ask be about Haiti culture and history and I will know nothing at all. So why would or should Shepard know much about the volus outside some basic sterotyoes about greedy businessmen. I wouldn’t be surprised if part of his basic training was when dealing with alien species show a interest and ask questions about their culture and history. People like to think you give a fuck. Info dumps are effective and make sense in the story. The only issue is some of the characters that was too much of what you learn about them. Okay but not ideal for side characters. Even worse for main characters. Shepard was born in 2154 - which was 6 years after mass effect physics were discovered, 2 years after the first human colony was established, and 3 years before the First Contact War and humanity's induction into greater galactic society. Shepard grew up in a world that included aliens, and would have learned some basics about different species in grade school. On top of that, Shep was a mid-level Alliance officer, a proven N7, the XO of a technologically advanced ship, and a Spectre candidate. You don't get to that point without having some basic knowledge of the different species and a fair bit of actual contact with them. Shep's basic officer training would have included significant details about different species' military tactics & strategies, assets, capabilities, troop strengths, and liasion-ship in learning how to work with them. That's all pretty basic knowledge for someone in Shep's position. I'm perfectly willing to give a pass on Shep learning about quarians from Tali. Quarians had been in exile for - what, 300 years I think - and whatever was previously known about their culture may have changed. Shepard should have been aware of the Pilgrimage, though, since quarians on Pilgrimage were regular fixtures throughout the galaxy. Personal or in-depth questions perhaps, but not such perfunctory species related questions. If you "give a fuck", you'd already know that much - and more. If the goal is to suck up, the better approach is usually along the lines of asking them their thoughts, feelings, opinions about things - not that Shep was ever much of a suck up. I agree that info dumps are effective, and necessary to inform the player about the world. There are other ways to convey that information, though, and from time to time I see people complain about their PC appearing to be uninformed in RPGs when their chief method of accessing that information is to have the PC ask questions when they should already know the answers. That said, I'd like to point out that my purpose was not to lodge such a complaint. I was originally making the point that Andromeda gave us a world where we're actually going through the process of discovering whatever there is to be known there, instead of having it spoon-fed via info dumps.
Again I just disagree fundamentally on what you assume people should know. The main reason being, people just don't know that much in most cases. Shepard may have heard of the pilgrimage but had no idea what it was. Shepards training outside military tactics, probably included things even more basic than what we learned by the info dumps. If he were to be stationed on a world heavily populated by a certain species he'd likely get a briefer on them, it would most likely be focused on a how not to offend them list. I had heard the term walkabout, but the first time I had any idea what it was, was when a Australian girl was in Jamaica and was my waitress and I asked her what brought her to the country and she said she was on her walkabout. And then I asked followup questions about what a walkabout was. You are always going to not know more than you know. I'd of been more surprised if Shepard had known all these things. If he was a diplomat on the citadel sure, but as a solider not really.
Did Andromeda do it better, I guess. I have no real issue with how the info dumps were done in ME1 outside like what I said about some of the characters being almost all info dump. But I can see some maybe most would prefer Andormedas style. Though it did still have its parts that were just info dumps, it was just spread out among various characters the governor dumps this info on you, Jaal this info etc. But I suspect that is for two reasons. It was already an established setting, so it had far less new information to relay and it was about 4 times as long/big. Less to establish and more time to say it in. Which also allowed them to go into ore detail instead of broad just strokes.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 22, 2020 4:16:10 GMT
Shepard was born in 2154 - which was 6 years after mass effect physics were discovered, 2 years after the first human colony was established, and 3 years before the First Contact War and humanity's induction into greater galactic society. Shepard grew up in a world that included aliens, and would have learned some basics about different species in grade school. On top of that, Shep was a mid-level Alliance officer, a proven N7, the XO of a technologically advanced ship, and a Spectre candidate. You don't get to that point without having some basic knowledge of the different species and a fair bit of actual contact with them. Shep's basic officer training would have included significant details about different species' military tactics & strategies, assets, capabilities, troop strengths, and liasion-ship in learning how to work with them. That's all pretty basic knowledge for someone in Shep's position. I'm perfectly willing to give a pass on Shep learning about quarians from Tali. Quarians had been in exile for - what, 300 years I think - and whatever was previously known about their culture may have changed. Shepard should have been aware of the Pilgrimage, though, since quarians on Pilgrimage were regular fixtures throughout the galaxy. Personal or in-depth questions perhaps, but not such perfunctory species related questions. If you "give a fuck", you'd already know that much - and more. If the goal is to suck up, the better approach is usually along the lines of asking them their thoughts, feelings, opinions about things - not that Shep was ever much of a suck up. I agree that info dumps are effective, and necessary to inform the player about the world. There are other ways to convey that information, though, and from time to time I see people complain about their PC appearing to be uninformed in RPGs when their chief method of accessing that information is to have the PC ask questions when they should already know the answers. That said, I'd like to point out that my purpose was not to lodge such a complaint. I was originally making the point that Andromeda gave us a world where we're actually going through the process of discovering whatever there is to be known there, instead of having it spoon-fed via info dumps.
Again I just disagree fundamentally on what you assume people should know. The main reason being, people just don't know that much in most cases. Shepard may have heard of the pilgrimage but had no idea what it was. Shepards training outside military tactics, probably included things even more basic than what we learned by the info dumps. If he were to be stationed on a world heavily populated by a certain species he'd likely get a briefer on them, it would most likely be focused on a how not to offend them list. I had heard the term walkabout, but the first time I had any idea what it was, was when a Australian girl was in Jamaica and was my waitress and I asked her what brought her to the country and she said she was on her walkabout. And then I asked followup questions about what a walkabout was. You are always going to not know more than you know. I'd of been more surprised if Shepard had known all these things. If he was a diplomat on the citadel sure, but as a solider not really.
Did Andromeda do it better, I guess. I have no real issue with how the info dumps were done in ME1 outside like what I said about some of the characters being almost all info dump. But I can see some maybe most would prefer Andormedas style. Though it did still have its parts that were just info dumps, it was just spread out among various characters the governor dumps this info on you, Jaal this info etc. But I suspect that is for two reasons. It was already an established setting, so it had far less new information to relay and it was about 4 times as long/big. Less to establish and more time to say it in. Which also allowed them to go into ore detail instead of broad just strokes.
Not knowing local vernacular and expressions is probably pretty common. But that's not what I'm talking about. Either you don't expect the average adult to know much - for reasons I'll not explore - or you've forgotten just how very perfunctory some of these info dumps were, so I'll remind you. Oh, and it seems Shep has never been to the Citadel before - despite being the XO of an Alliance ship and a Spectre. I'm sorry, but Shep would need to be much, much better informed than that to even function in the role of XO->CO and Spectre. Grade school kids and everyday tourists should know these things.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 22, 2020 7:07:06 GMT
Don't forget Shepard asking for a lecture on who the Protheans are right at the beginning of ME1. Which you actually have to do if you want an achievement.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2020 10:23:55 GMT
I’ll admit that I’m not really a fan of that franchise, and don’t really like the whole all-over-the-place feel of it. I just don’t want Mass Effect to go down that route. If BioWare can’t be bothered to work with what they have and maintain some sense of continuity, I’d just prefer it ended. I mean, in a perfect world I don't want Mass Effect to go down the Reboot road either. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I personally feel like the Setting is almost damaged beyond repair. I don't see a future for this franchise with Andromeda being the only path forward. That is ultimately the problem, to me. Due to the clusterfuck this franchise has been subjected to, there is basically no flexibility for ideas. It's Andromeda or death. I will never get to walk the streets of Kar'Shan and see first hand the people and culture of the Hegemony. I will never get to explore the ocean depths of Kahje, and see the elegant Hanar dancing in the water, as Thane talked about. I'll never be able to get a game where you play as a C-Sec officer, LA Noir style, as we finally get a game solely focused on fleshing out The Citadel and all that a galactic hub has to offer. I'll never see the Quarians outside of their damn suits because a future without Rannoch means they'll likely never bother with such an idea. I'll never have the chance to see Parnack or see how the Yagh evolve and integrate into wider society. What the hell was even the point of introducing a new race that had no future, when there were already tons of races like the Batarians, the Elcor, the Volus who were all equally doomed with no future, never to be explored? Why bother creating the Raloi, knowing it's a waste of time that nothing will ever come of? Why tease the future potential of a setting that your just going to fucking piss away and abandon because you thought it would be cute to blow the whole damn thing up? All you people who act like the Milky Way had nothing going for it (pre ending) clearly didn't pay one lick of attention. ("you" in this case meaning the author, not you you). What potential does Andromeda have? A mysterious money man who everyone assumes is TIM, why? because TIM is a broken plot device with literally infinite money because screw you. The Scourge, the Protheans Version 2, and hostile alien race that is as generically evil as it gets. For all the flak ME1 gets for being a bad video game, it was light years ahead of Andromeda in terms of lore, set up, and world building. If Andromeda 2 does not pick up herculean levels of slack in this department, this franchise will die. So while you might prefer to see ME die because you would rather have references and call backs. I would rather sacrifice the history I both love and hate in order to get a second chance to fully exploit the potential that this franchise has pissed away. Realistically, even if the Milky Way story didn’t end in such a way that it would make going forward impossible without a total rewrite, I don’t expect even half of these things to actually make it to another game anyway. Sure, the possibility is always there, but these background details would likely never make it to the final product.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 22, 2020 15:53:53 GMT
I mean, in a perfect world I don't want Mass Effect to go down the Reboot road either. Sadly we don't live in a perfect world. We live in a world where I personally feel like the Setting is almost damaged beyond repair. I don't see a future for this franchise with Andromeda being the only path forward. That is ultimately the problem, to me. Due to the clusterfuck this franchise has been subjected to, there is basically no flexibility for ideas. It's Andromeda or death. I will never get to walk the streets of Kar'Shan and see first hand the people and culture of the Hegemony. I will never get to explore the ocean depths of Kahje, and see the elegant Hanar dancing in the water, as Thane talked about. I'll never be able to get a game where you play as a C-Sec officer, LA Noir style, as we finally get a game solely focused on fleshing out The Citadel and all that a galactic hub has to offer. I'll never see the Quarians outside of their damn suits because a future without Rannoch means they'll likely never bother with such an idea. I'll never have the chance to see Parnack or see how the Yagh evolve and integrate into wider society. What the hell was even the point of introducing a new race that had no future, when there were already tons of races like the Batarians, the Elcor, the Volus who were all equally doomed with no future, never to be explored? Why bother creating the Raloi, knowing it's a waste of time that nothing will ever come of? Why tease the future potential of a setting that your just going to fucking piss away and abandon because you thought it would be cute to blow the whole damn thing up? All you people who act like the Milky Way had nothing going for it (pre ending) clearly didn't pay one lick of attention. ("you" in this case meaning the author, not you you). What potential does Andromeda have? A mysterious money man who everyone assumes is TIM, why? because TIM is a broken plot device with literally infinite money because screw you. The Scourge, the Protheans Version 2, and hostile alien race that is as generically evil as it gets. For all the flak ME1 gets for being a bad video game, it was light years ahead of Andromeda in terms of lore, set up, and world building. If Andromeda 2 does not pick up herculean levels of slack in this department, this franchise will die. So while you might prefer to see ME die because you would rather have references and call backs. I would rather sacrifice the history I both love and hate in order to get a second chance to fully exploit the potential that this franchise has pissed away. Realistically, even if the Milky Way story didn’t end in such a way that it would make going forward impossible without a total rewrite, I don’t expect even half of these things to actually make it to another game anyway. Sure, the possibility is always there, but these background details would likely never make it to the final product. They did quite a bit in the way of world-building and color commentary for TMW, and the planetary descriptions are a big part of that. Even so, we'd never visit any of those locations unless there's a particular questline or story they want to tell there. How well it would be received by those eager for it depends entirely on execution - which I would not expect to be influenced by which galaxy you're in. Being confined to a single cluster is... confinement to a single cluster, whether it's in TMW or Andromeda.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 16:44:38 GMT
Shepard was born in 2154 - which was 6 years after mass effect physics were discovered, 2 years after the first human colony was established, and 3 years before the First Contact War and humanity's induction into greater galactic society. Shepard grew up in a world that included aliens, and would have learned some basics about different species in grade school. On top of that, Shep was a mid-level Alliance officer, a proven N7, the XO of a technologically advanced ship, and a Spectre candidate. You don't get to that point without having some basic knowledge of the different species and a fair bit of actual contact with them. Shep's basic officer training would have included significant details about different species' military tactics & strategies, assets, capabilities, troop strengths, and liasion-ship in learning how to work with them. That's all pretty basic knowledge for someone in Shep's position. I'm perfectly willing to give a pass on Shep learning about quarians from Tali. Quarians had been in exile for - what, 300 years I think - and whatever was previously known about their culture may have changed. Shepard should have been aware of the Pilgrimage, though, since quarians on Pilgrimage were regular fixtures throughout the galaxy. I think you're crucially underestimating just how isolated Bioware intended Humanity to be a the start of Mass Effect. The amount of humans that have daily interactions with Aliens probably doesn't number above a few thousand, on a total population of Billions that's tiny, it logically follows that most Humans, even the majority of Alliance personnel, will never leave Human space much less visit the Citadel. As for education we don't have a clear point of reference as to what humans of various ranks are supposed to now, in 2007 gamers knew even less about the universe than Shepard so it's not strange most reviewers weren't perturbed by the game's exposition. If anything, one can criticize the games for focussing too much on the tiny minority of humanity that spread out across the galaxy and too few on the majority of earthlings and those from the larger colonies. For example we don't visit earth until the third game and even then don't interact with common citizenry or militia, only the privileged aristocracy, so the speak. Part of this flaw is inherent to format of the games of course, uncovering galaxy shattering mysteries isn't going to work as well when you spend the entire game on a residential colony. Certain characters do alude that Shepard is somewhat of a yokel, with his or her candidacy for the Spectres being largely based on Torfan/Elysium/Akuze. Confusingly, other moments do seem to indicate Shepard has extensive knowledge, such as the inspection quest were Shepard can effortlessly demolish an admiral with his statements on Turian design preferences and the Normandy's engineering. To wrap it up I generally feel Bioware's goal was to emphasize on Humanity's relative isolation to the rest of the galaxy, with Shepard as an exemplary military officer who is largely uncaring to the world outside of the Alliance.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 6, 2020 4:16:12 GMT
Shepard was born in 2154 - which was 6 years after mass effect physics were discovered, 2 years after the first human colony was established, and 3 years before the First Contact War and humanity's induction into greater galactic society. Shepard grew up in a world that included aliens, and would have learned some basics about different species in grade school. On top of that, Shep was a mid-level Alliance officer, a proven N7, the XO of a technologically advanced ship, and a Spectre candidate. You don't get to that point without having some basic knowledge of the different species and a fair bit of actual contact with them. Shep's basic officer training would have included significant details about different species' military tactics & strategies, assets, capabilities, troop strengths, and liasion-ship in learning how to work with them. That's all pretty basic knowledge for someone in Shep's position. I'm perfectly willing to give a pass on Shep learning about quarians from Tali. Quarians had been in exile for - what, 300 years I think - and whatever was previously known about their culture may have changed. Shepard should have been aware of the Pilgrimage, though, since quarians on Pilgrimage were regular fixtures throughout the galaxy. I think you're crucially underestimating just how isolated Bioware intended Humanity to be a the start of Mass Effect. The amount of humans that have daily interactions with Aliens probably doesn't number above a few thousand, on a total population of Billions that's tiny, it logically follows that most Humans, even the majority of Alliance personnel, will never leave Human space much less visit the Citadel. As for education we don't have a clear point of reference as to what humans of various ranks are supposed to now, in 2007 gamers knew even less about the universe than Shepard so it's not strange most reviewers weren't perturbed by the game's exposition. If anything, one can criticize the games for focussing too much on the tiny minority of humanity that spread out across the galaxy and too few on the majority of earthlings and those from the larger colonies. For example we don't visit earth until the third game and even then don't interact with common citizenry or militia, only the privileged aristocracy, so the speak. Part of this flaw is inherent to format of the games of course, uncovering galaxy shattering mysteries isn't going to work as well when you spend the entire game on a residential colony. Certain characters do alude that Shepard is somewhat of a yokel, with his or her candidacy for the Spectres being largely based on Torfan/Elysium/Akuze. Confusingly, other moments do seem to indicate Shepard has extensive knowledge, such as the inspection quest were Shepard can effortlessly demolish an admiral with his statements on Turian design preferences and the Normandy's engineering. To wrap it up I generally feel Bioware's goal was to emphasize on Humanity's relative isolation to the rest of the galaxy, with Shepard as an exemplary military officer who is largely uncaring to the world outside of the Alliance. While this user deleted his account (god speed on your en devours) I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment. I'm not sure why so many people assume Shepard, or hell even most of humanity in this universe are nerds who spend like 10 years in college compiling degrees. For example, I live in America, the most ignorant first world country on earth. I actually know someone whose never heard of the state of Montana. We live in a world where people seriously still believe the Earth is fucking flat, and that we never landed on the Moon. We live in a world where people are so ignorant people compare elected officials they disagree with with Adolf Hitler and mean it with complete sincerity. Humans for the most part, are incredibly dumb.
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Post by burningcherry on Apr 6, 2020 13:01:07 GMT
And let's not forget that the Extranet works with delays ranging to hours if you don't get a priority government channel which, combined with the Council's apartheid policy regarding colonization rights, should produce an information barrier between the races bigger than between the nations of Earth today.
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