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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 18:03:36 GMT
Or not continue at all. Either works, but I always assumed it would continue. I figured they’d want to keep that door open, particularly since this game was so popular. People invested in Alexios/Kassandra might be curious to see what happens to the descendants. Unfortunately, they successfully lured in the RPG crowd but underestimated the demand for player agency. I’m sure they’ll do better next time. Hopefully, people give them the chance to improve. Having Laidlaw in house can only help. He may not be working on AC, but I kind of hope he is. Ashraf already heads great iterations. Throw in Laidlaw and maybe the Syndicate/Odyssey team becomes the weakest (assuming a lot, including that Laidlaw gets great people)? I’d take that. I wasn't expecting player agency really or the kind of RPG I've experienced with Bioware. Hence, my expectations were low. I was also doubtful. What drew me to get the game was 1] choice of protag. 2] Ancient Greek world, freedom to roam. 3] Interesting combat. As it turned out, for me. The journey was enjoyable, with memorable moments, great VA. There is room for improvement. I hope they would do better in the next installment with Laidlaw joining the company. My expectations were for them to keep their promises, but their promises were lies from the start just to get more players to buy their game.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 18:09:12 GMT
Out of interest whats so important about this bloodline exactly? Is Desmond or Layla direct descendants? Isn't it the fact Kassandra/Alesios is/could be the last of there line the reason it is them that has to have the baby? Granted Leonidas had other children but they never had a child with Pythagoras i don't think an then through your choices throughout the game your sibling an mother could be dead i believe, so err who is left to start the bloodline? These protagonists seemingly have way more Isu DNA than we’ve ever seen in any other character. The idea seems to be that people of this sort were more common in these earlier ages. Perseus, Achilles, Ajax, Jason, Hektor, etc... there’s at least the suggestion that these guys were similarly “gifted”. The age of legends passed as the bloodlines thinned and Isu DNA became more diffuse. In later times, persons like Desmond are special, even among others with such DNA, because there’s a confluence of several bloodlines, producing a person with very high concentrations of Isu heritage. He didn’t have Alexios-levels of such DNA, but he had more than most Assassins (many of whom carry this DNA). In terms of importance to the IP, it’s just another family. There’s no reason it ever has to feature in another game. They chose to move to more varied, unrelated protagonists from game to game, starting with Rogue and Unity.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 17, 2019 18:33:00 GMT
Out of interest whats so important about this bloodline exactly? Is Desmond or Layla direct descendants? Isn't it the fact Kassandra/Alesios is/could be the last of there line the reason it is them that has to have the baby? Granted Leonidas had other children but they never had a child with Pythagoras i don't think an then through your choices throughout the game your sibling an mother could be dead i believe, so err who is left to start the bloodline? These protagonists seemingly have way more Isu DNA than we’ve ever seen in any other character. The idea seems to be that people of this sort were more common in these earlier ages. Perseus, Achilles, Ajax, Jason, Hektor, etc... there’s at least the suggestion that these guys were similarly “gifted”. The age of legends passed as the bloodlines thinned and Isu DNA became more diffuse. In later times, persons like Desmond are special, even among others with such DNA, because there’s a confluence of several bloodlines, producing a person with very high concentrations of Isu heritage. He didn’t have Alexios-levels of such DNA, but he had more than most Assassins (many of whom carry this DNA). In terms of importance to the IP, it’s just another family. There’s no reason it ever has to feature in another game. The chose to move to more varied, unrelated protagonists starting with Rogue and Unity. has there ever been a non Isu related protagonist in this series?
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 18:42:04 GMT
These protagonists seemingly have way more Isu DNA than we’ve ever seen in any other character. The idea seems to be that people of this sort were more common in these earlier ages. Perseus, Achilles, Ajax, Jason, Hektor, etc... there’s at least the suggestion that these guys were similarly “gifted”. The age of legends passed as the bloodlines thinned and Isu DNA became more diffuse. In later times, persons like Desmond are special, even among others with such DNA, because there’s a confluence of several bloodlines, producing a person with very high concentrations of Isu heritage. He didn’t have Alexios-levels of such DNA, but he had more than most Assassins (many of whom carry this DNA). In terms of importance to the IP, it’s just another family. There’s no reason it ever has to feature in another game. The chose to move to more varied, unrelated protagonists starting with Rogue and Unity. has there ever been a non Isu related protagonist in this series? Nope. The sixth sense is a core gameplay mechanic, and it’s an Isu trait.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 18:51:36 GMT
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 17, 2019 20:26:04 GMT
I will point out that the ancient Greeks approached sex with a different view than us in present day. They went to bed with whomever they like but the principle creed of ancient Greek society is family. To have no children is considered a failure to fulfill the creed, a failure as a living thing. And I will point out that even ancient Greeks and Romans had same-sex marriages, however rare they were (but popular enough that they necessitated a ban once Christianity started spreading), and that there are mentions of same-sex (mostly Athenian) households that didn't involve the temporary erastes/eromenos model or some sort of open marriage thing to have children (again, not super widespread and rather frowned upon, but not nonexistent). Speaking about the book - in it Kassandra said she doesn't consider herself Spartan or anything else. Conventions and expectations don't apply to a wandering magical misthios. And if they wanted to keep those pre-release promises, they could have had Deimos have a child. Even if you played Alexios, Deimos Kassandra carrying a child would have been less jarring. In canon it would have made sense anyway.
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Post by simit on Jan 17, 2019 20:52:50 GMT
Deimos can be dead
I was born in Scotland, me saying i don't consider myself Scottish doesnt change the fact i am
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 21:15:14 GMT
Deimos can be dead I was born in Scotland, me saying i don't consider myself Scottish doesnt change the fact i am Just because you are ethnically Scottish doesn’t mean you have to follow all the cultural customs that Scotland has though. There are people who disregard their heritage in order to do what they want to do. That’s what it means when someone says they don’t consider themselves *insert nationality here*. Also Deimos could have had a child before the events of the game therefore always around.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by simit on Jan 17, 2019 21:31:10 GMT
Yeah there no denying there handling of it all was weird tbh, i mean if the PC is required to have the child there was many ways to do it, they just happened to go the route that would trigger a outraged reaction which considering there initial statement then there constant "diverse team" messages is really bloody strange.
I mean Legacy dlc could've been the dlc to impress upon the need for a bloodline an the options to either pursue a romance or not with Atlantis DLC hitting home the importance this bloodline would be with some sort of way in that dlc to make the baby through err the tech? I don't know im no a writer lol
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 21:32:18 GMT
The LotFB has nothing to do with enforcing cultural norms or slighting the LGBT community. They simply told the story that they wanted to tell. Yes, it sucks that they implied that players could shape that part of the character, but then put the protagonist into a straight relationship. They thought they were making it clear that the relationship could be either romantic or pragmatic friends making a kid. I’ll agree that they did a bad job of portraying this dichotomy, even though I was expecting and looking for this very thing.
I’m confident that they’ll learn from this, based upon their actions as developers through the last several games. I hope you guys and gals who were disappointed can give them another chance. I believe that holding them to the same standard as experienced RPG developers is a mistake, as I started saying long before this game released. This is their first attempt at anything like this. Overall, it was surprisingly well done, in my opinion. I don’t think they’ll make such a big misstep again.
Edit: Typos
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 21:43:45 GMT
The LotFB has nothing to do with enforcing cultural norms or slighting the LGBT community. They simply told the story that they wanted to tell. Yes, it sucks that they implied that players could shape that part of the character, but then put the protagonist into a straight relationship. They thought they were making it clear that the relationship could be either romantic or pragmatic friends making a kid. I’ll agree that they did a bad job of portraying this dichotomy, even though I was expecting and looking for this very thing. I’m confident that they’ll learn from this, based upon their actions as developers through the last several games. I hope you guys and gals who were disappointed can give them another chance. I believe that holding them to the same standard as experienced RPG developers is a mistake, as I started saying long before this game released. This is their first attempt at anything like this. Overall, it was surprisingly well done, in my opinion. I don’t think they’ll make such a big misstep again. Edit: Typos It may have had nothing to do with that, but that doesn't stop it from doing that anyway. Implied? Implied!? They did not imply that players could shape their character. They stated it numerous times. “We’re not forcing you to do something you don’t want to do,” “Since the story is choice-driven, we never force players in romantic situations they might not be comfortable with,” Dumont says. “Players decide if they want to engage with characters romantically. I think this allows everybody to build the relationships they want, which I feel respects everybody’s roleplay style and desires.” is a couple examples. How is this 'implying'. And no, I don't buy they thought they were making it clear since throughout the DLC our character even if we avoid all the options is still super lovey dovey towards Darius' kid. I won't be confident that they'll learn until they fix it. If they do, then I'll give them their second chance. And no, simply changing the achievement title and having it addressed in part 3 doesn't fix it. The problem is in Chapter 2, so leaving that be like they are shows how little they care. Plus it's not like people should take their word for it when they have proven themselves to be baiting liars.
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Post by saandrig on Jan 17, 2019 21:49:35 GMT
And if they wanted to keep those pre-release promises, they could have had Deimos have a child. Even if you played Alexios, Deimos Kassandra carrying a child would have been less jarring. In canon it would have made sense anyway. Deimos is only a half-sibling to the protagonist since Nikolaos is his/her father. So not really the true heir of the bloodline and will make the Pythagoras/Myrrine pairing pointless.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 21:51:43 GMT
Hanako Ikezawa, I realize you’re really upset with this, but I feel like we’re nearing this stage: All of the name-calling directed at the devs, calling for their jobs, etc... It comes across in an unflattering manner. Maybe this is your only forum for venting. We’re all trying to be supportive and acknowledge your views. It seems, though, that it’s insufficient unless we too want people flayed and fired. I’d never ignore you or anything because we have lots of great conversations. That said, I’m definitely finished with this topic, at least in connection with such energetic posts. I don’t think either one of us has anything new to say on the topic. They screwed up. We can agree on that. How badly they did is subjective, I guess.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 21:53:47 GMT
And if they wanted to keep those pre-release promises, they could have had Deimos have a child. Even if you played Alexios, Deimos Kassandra carrying a child would have been less jarring. In canon it would have made sense anyway. Deimos is only a half-sibling to the protagonist since Nikolaos is his/her father. So not really the true heir of the bloodline and will make the Pythagoras/Myrrine pairing pointless. He still has Isu blood, since Leonidas is a descendant of the Isu. So no issue even if it's not as much as our character.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 21:59:17 GMT
Deimos is only a half-sibling to the protagonist since Nikolaos is his/her father. So not really the true heir of the bloodline and will make the Pythagoras/Myrrine pairing pointless. He still has Isu blood, since Leonidas is a descendant of the Isu. So no issue even if it's not as much as our character. The thing is that such a character would be just another human with some Isu DNA. They’d likely be no more special than Desmond or any other protagonist we’ve seen in the previous dozen games. I’m fine with that, but it seems like a pointless story point. It might have been best to simply not address any births at all. If they wanted to use a descendant of our protagonist in the future, just tell us in that game that “So and So has a genetic link to Alexios/Kassandra”. Leave it vague and open to player interpretation. Instead, they tried to give us a cool TW3 type of ending and instead put their foot in it.
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Post by simit on Jan 17, 2019 22:14:14 GMT
Did the weekly missions an daily which was all nice since they was all sea for the most part, had logged on with still a full bounty so when i fast travelled i got a few mercs on me which is always fun an then cleaving all the mission targets brought more so ended up tier 2 i think, highest tier, an went an spent all the ori on err the loot vase i guess, only thing of note i got was Siren crew oh and the ship design from the target mission, wasted on me though as i never change from the basic eagle design and eagle figurehead.
Got enough resources now to upgrade a couple more sets but im still enjoying the fire warrior build with Agamemnon set so i'll just wait an see what i fancy next, maybe pure assassin with flaux
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 17, 2019 22:19:24 GMT
I’m firing up Odyssey for the daily quest and to enjoy a bit of sailing. I’m still bummed about the nerf to headshots. Needing to shoot multiple arrows into an opponent’s face is pretty poor for immersion. I may abandon my Hunter altogether, for now. I might shift some of the Mastery pints I invested in Hunter into something else. Hunter was undoubtedly the most powerful playstyle; but this wasn’t the sensible way to rebalance that issue.
I only thought of this again because I might quickly nab that Rapid Shot trophy. It’s not a skill I would’ve seen myself using on a Hunter build; but it might be cool for ranged killing power on demand for a Warrior or Assassin build.
Where are all of the S1 and S2 mercs hiding? It seems I’ll have to incur a high-level bounty to lure them out of hiding. I want to go upgrade my engravings, but not at full price.
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Post by bshep on Jan 17, 2019 22:30:26 GMT
The "romance choices" in Odyssey were always pretty much just one time casual sex, plus much of the other choices ingame were really without any consequence save a few (most in the main quests). So i am not really surprised with this development.
Truth be told i would prefer Ubisoft stick to a strong storytelling like they did on AC:Origins rather than try a watered down version of Bioware's dialogue choices. :/
By the way did the DLC ended or there is still another chapter? I prefer to wait to play the whole thing instead of just episodes.
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Post by simit on Jan 17, 2019 22:34:47 GMT
Chapter 3 still to be released m8
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 17, 2019 22:37:59 GMT
The "romance choices" in Odyssey were always pretty much just one time casual sex, plus much of the other choices ingame were really without any consequence save a few (most in the main quests). So i am not really surprised with this development. That’s part of why I played my character as not interested in that kind of thing like promised, but then the DLC would force me into falling head over heels and mating with Darius’ brat without my consent.
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 17, 2019 23:55:17 GMT
I was born in Scotland, me saying i don't consider myself Scottish doesnt change the fact i am If Kassandra says she doesn't consider herself Spartan, that also means she also does not consider their culture to be her own. She was raised away from Sparta and worked as a mercenary. Like a third of the game is Spartans sneering at the misthios asking for payment for doing something for Sparta. Just because you were born somewhere, does not mean you 100% accept the traditions of that country. Ignoring, again, that Kass/Alexios are really far from what a typical Greek at that time was like.
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Post by Element Zero on Jan 18, 2019 0:19:47 GMT
I sailed from crash-heavy Elis to Pephka and entered the Arena. I don’t like the Arena, but it’s a good place to nab Trophies and the like. I got both the Parry and Rapid Shot Trophies, so I’m now 100% on available Trophies.
I checked the daily quest and found it’s in Elis. 😒 Sailing back, it was a delivery to a target 200m distant. I’m finished for tonight. I’ll check back next Tuesday to kick Arges’ ass, then I’ll drop in come March for Episode 3. I’m AC’d out after 3 full PTs. I’d start a fresh game of MEA, but I want to compete my move first.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Jan 18, 2019 0:59:04 GMT
Ep 3 confirmed for March? Dear Ubisoft ... I want the NG+ !! *rants* I don't think there're any new games, in my list, for the next two months unless the Twitch streamers surprise me with something I've never heard of. There's some new development with Atlas so it may or may not occupy the two months. Otherwise, Subnatutica, old games are the alternative.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 18, 2019 1:14:50 GMT
Ep 3 confirmed for March? Dear Ubisoft ... I want the NG+ !! *rants* I don't think there're any new games, in my list, for the next two months unless the Twitch streamers surprise me with something I've never heard of. There's some new development with Atlas so it may or may not occupy the two months. Otherwise, Subnatutica, old games are the alternative. Jorraptor theorises we'll be getting that in Feb. Considering just how...uh...busy March is for them. I guess the best guess other than that would be April. So anyways what did I do yesterday? Oh yeah putting down slave rebellions and helping out the Kings of Sparta. (Spoilers I think they are both cultists). Nothing really of note to report from either quest per se. Except that one of the kryptari was in the middle of a fort so I just shot him with the ghost arrows of artemis and didn't do any of the other stuff in the fort. I mean they are Spartans and I have been trying to not kill Spartans...plus again let me do it in five minutes. Other two I killed with a predator shot while he was taunting a local populace and the third one got into a bit of an engagement with but I used vanish and snuck around the other side to loot the boxes...before killing them all. Although it was funny on the way to the fort some random Spartan was just standing there so I was like 'give me AP' and Assassinated him. How the Spartans settle disputes is...interesting. All I have to say about that. Its funny even though I suspect both Kings might be in on it the speculation on which of the quests are a 'trap' was...interesting. I'd go for the Olympics being more so, right now the Cult doesen't want the war won and they could use the influence that the Olympics could bring them. But then the guy who assigned me the Olympics I think of being less likely of being a cultist so... I think I could see myself using Rapid fire in my kit, at least part time. I'd trade out multi shot for it and just the thing is multi shot is too good of an ability for ships and conquest battles especially to ignore entirely...so I'd have to trade them out depending on what I was doing.
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Post by dazk on Jan 18, 2019 1:44:04 GMT
Ep 3 confirmed for March? Dear Ubisoft ... I want the NG+ !! *rants* I don't think there're any new games, in my list, for the next two months unless the Twitch streamers surprise me with something I've never heard of. There's some new development with Atlas so it may or may not occupy the two months. Otherwise, Subnatutica, old games are the alternative. Jorraptor theorises we'll be getting that in Feb. Considering just how...uh...busy March is for them. I guess the best guess other than that would be April. So anyways what did I do yesterday? Oh yeah putting down slave rebellions and helping out the Kings of Sparta. (Spoilers I think they are both cultists). Nothing really of note to report from either quest per se. Except that one of the kryptari was in the middle of a fort so I just shot him with the ghost arrows of artemis and didn't do any of the other stuff in the fort. I mean they are Spartans and I have been trying to not kill Spartans...plus again let me do it in five minutes. Other two I killed with a predator shot while he was taunting a local populace and the third one got into a bit of an engagement with but I used vanish and snuck around the other side to loot the boxes...before killing them all. Although it was funny on the way to the fort some random Spartan was just standing there so I was like 'give me AP' and Assassinated him. How the Spartans settle disputes is...interesting. All I have to say about that. Its funny even though I suspect both Kings might be in on it the speculation on which of the quests are a 'trap' was...interesting. I'd go for the Olympics being more so, right now the Cult doesen't want the war won and they could use the influence that the Olympics could bring them. But then the guy who assigned me the Olympics I think of being less likely of being a cultist so... I think I could see myself using Rapid fire in my kit, at least part time. I'd trade out multi shot for it and just the thing is multi shot is too good of an ability for ships and conquest battles especially to ignore entirely...so I'd have to trade them out depending on what I was doing. I hope you enjoy the escort mission to the Olympics, my experience of I was pretty darn funny.
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