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Post by vertigomez on Oct 31, 2018 1:09:37 GMT
The percentage of gamers with crap internet is low and dropping. In a few years I'll bet there won't even be downloads; the whole game will stay in the cloud. [cries in mobile hotspot]
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 31, 2018 3:35:03 GMT
Well as far as I,m concerned I cannot do MMO's cause of the crap internet I deal with but with that said EA better learn to read there is a lot of funding from us that can only play solo games weather it be internet or other Pls do not exclude us from what we love to play, till then my money stays in my wallet unless another company that EA does not control asks for it. EA think about it. Yeah that's what I'm trying to asy EA needs to think really carefully about what they do here otherwise they may find a lot of customers turning away from them an given they've been in a lot of trouble with their money grabbing lootbox systems among other things that may not be a good thing to do.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 31, 2018 3:50:56 GMT
The percentage of gamers with crap internet is low and dropping. In a few years I'll bet there won't even be downloads; the whole game will stay in the cloud. I doubt that because if you lose your connection /internet goes down you can't play your game. At least with games as they are now even if you can't access multiplayer or the online stuff if your internet has a problem you can still access singleplayer. That should always be the case and we should always have full access to the single player components in games regardless of our internet status.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 31, 2018 4:50:00 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure.
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Post by natetrace on Oct 31, 2018 11:06:39 GMT
Hmm. It would be interesting to turn off your game, and the next day there are new npcs added to the game world. I think shared worlds can work for teen players and people under...25. Beyond that the ability to sink time into a game like that (or like WoW) decreases. I do think it's a good move to attract a future audience. The only problem is if a whole bunch of game companies do this, which there are, that audience gets stretched thin as maybe they only focus on one or two games.
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Post by LogicGunn on Oct 31, 2018 12:39:31 GMT
Literally all of my experiences of gaming with other people has been annoying and immersion breaking. Some of them have been abusive. So I wouldn't call shared gaming of any kind compelling.
Changing world spaces isn't a new concept. ACO has a little hint of that with weekly missions etc, so it can work in a single player "local" (i.e not cloud) game. And it's an interesting concept.
But I'd bow out if other players could impact my game space in a single player, which I appreciate isn't explicitly stated, but it is kind of implied. E.G. something like a game where there is a conflict between two sides and the "majority" chooses the overall winner.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 31, 2018 13:04:39 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure. Maybe if you're rolling in it you can afford a connection like that most can't and it would be the ones that can't that would suffer. Mine's not great but it does the job so right now I'm happy with it.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 31, 2018 15:13:06 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure. Never figured you for the "gid gud" type.
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Post by Frost on Oct 31, 2018 17:37:01 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure. Yes, they are. But, sometimes there aren't many options available. For example, I don't have the option to have fiber where I live. I have doubts that my current connection would work well for this.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 31, 2018 17:49:43 GMT
Well, internet connections that you think might cut out are the crap ones, aren't they? I worry about my connection going do.wn about as much as I worry about a power failure. Yes, they are. But, sometimes there aren't many options available. For example, I don't have the option to have fiber where I live. I have doubts that my current connection would work well for this. I think we're going to have to wait and see what "this" exactly is. I have an excellent fiberoptic connection now, but it hasn't been long when Internet was trickling through an old 10 MB pipette... managed to play MMO on NA server on it for years tho. And I don't expect for cloud-gaming to be turned into full-blown MMOs or multiplayer games.
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Post by Frost on Oct 31, 2018 17:59:53 GMT
Yes, they are. But, sometimes there aren't many options available. For example, I don't have the option to have fiber where I live. I have doubts that my current connection would work well for this. I think we're going to have to wait and see what "this" exactly is. I have an excellent fiberoptic connection now, but it hasn't been long when Internet was trickling through an old 10 MB pipette... managed to play MMO on NA server on it for years tho. And I don't expect for cloud-gaming to be turned into full-blown MMOs or multiplayer games. True. I was thinking it would need an even better connection than for MMOs, but I will have to wait and see.
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Post by mmoblitz on Oct 31, 2018 21:54:58 GMT
Being this is the age of social media, it's assumed that most people who play games either do or would like to play with their friends. They are assuming you have friends that play games in the first place and for me that is a big negative. At least not any that play online games.
My youngest daughter is the only person I play any online games with and she mostly plays SP games and doesn't like shooters of any type. The time anything like the above becomes the norm, I will find another hobby.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 31, 2018 22:11:19 GMT
Being this is the age of social media, it's assumed that most people who play games either do or would like to play with their friends. I have lots of friends who play games! I just have no desire to play games with them and vice versa. It's like trying to sit down and enjoy a novel I've been looking forward to reading for YEARS only this time my friends are required to read every other paragraph when all I want to do is kick back, read it on my own and immerse myself. Also the book has no structured beginning, middle, and end.... the author just keeps adding paragraphs that I pay for with a monthly subscription service...
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 31, 2018 22:13:56 GMT
I think we're going to have to wait and see what "this" exactly is. I have an excellent fiberoptic connection now, but it hasn't been long when Internet was trickling through an old 10 MB pipette... managed to play MMO on NA server on it for years tho. And I don't expect for cloud-gaming to be turned into full-blown MMOs or multiplayer games. True. I was thinking it would need an even better connection than for MMOs, but I will have to wait and see. I find it unlikely. As much as people have varied access to different speeds of the Internet we can't forget that anything cloud-based or server-based requires infrastructure on the side of those who offer it (or 3rd party that maintains it). I'm not sure we're at the time where companies would want to micro-manage every aspect of their games or players of those games via online access and the traffic it brings.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 31, 2018 22:17:28 GMT
Being this is the age of social media, it's assumed that most people who play games either do or would like to play with their friends. I have lots of friends who play games! I just have no desire to play games with them and vice versa. It's like trying to sit down and enjoy a novel I've been looking forward to reading for YEARS only this time my friends are required to read every other paragraph when all I want to do is kick back, read it on my own and immerse myself. Also the book has no structured beginning, middle, and end.... the author just keeps adding paragraphs that I pay for with a monthly subscription service... ...There's a lot of assumptions here that we don't even know will materialize, or materialize in future SP games.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2018 22:30:38 GMT
I'm getting pretty tired of big game publishers trying to push people online. Or trying to push games as a social medium. And no it's not just EA, last year 2k made it impossible to play NBA2k offline (on mycareer). Blizzard and their only online Diablo 3 for PC. I don't want my game world to change based on the inputs of other players, and the day EA moves to this shit for all their games is the day I walk away from Bioware for good.
Ridiculous.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 31, 2018 22:35:28 GMT
Just love the stereotyping of multiplayer gamers by single player gamers. Anyway this is just a phase once single player is popular (which still is.) EA will hop on that bandwagon.
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Post by river82 on Oct 31, 2018 22:39:56 GMT
Just love the stereotyping of multiplayer gamers by single player gamers. People know what they want (by and large). If people don't want multiplayer games, they don't want multiplayer games. Big game publishers keep shoving online crap in our faces though, because $$$ What I want from a game is my choices to impact the game world. I do not want the choices of 2 million other people to impact my game world. This helps breaks the illusion of control that choices give you in the first place, and while having others impact the world is more "realistic", people go to games as a form of escapism to get away from "realistic". And part of that is the ability, or the illusion of the ability, to mould the world in ways you want.
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Post by smilesja on Oct 31, 2018 22:44:45 GMT
Just love the stereotyping of multiplayer gamers by single player gamers. People know what they want (by and large). If people don't want multiplayer games, they don't want multiplayer games. Big game publishers keep shoving online crap in our faces though, because $$$ What I want from a game is my choices to impact the game world. I do not want the choices of 2 million other people to impact my game world. This helps breaks the illusion of control that choices give you in the first place, and while having others impact the world is more "realistic", people go to games as a form of escapism to get away from "realistic". And part of that is the ability, or the illusion of the ability, to mould the world in ways you want. Of course people know what they want. But clearly many people are interested in multiplayer otherwise AAA game companies wouldn’t even try it.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 31, 2018 22:59:06 GMT
I have lots of friends who play games! I just have no desire to play games with them and vice versa. It's like trying to sit down and enjoy a novel I've been looking forward to reading for YEARS only this time my friends are required to read every other paragraph when all I want to do is kick back, read it on my own and immerse myself. Also the book has no structured beginning, middle, and end.... the author just keeps adding paragraphs that I pay for with a monthly subscription service... ...There's a lot of assumptions here that we don't even know will materialize, or materialize in future SP games. Assumptions happen when they don't come out and tell you exactly what this means for SP games. Between this Project Atlas stuff and Anthem's development, the push seems to be toward multiplayer and "deep, meaningful social interactions" and "shared ground for friendships that span the globe" - I don't see the same vocal push towards singleplayer content.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 31, 2018 23:01:05 GMT
Just love the stereotyping of multiplayer gamers by single player gamers. Anyway this is just a phase once single player is popular (which still is.) EA will hop on that bandwagon. It's apparent from the original article that this is... not really about MP or SP. Like yeah, you'll need the Internet to play/stream the game, but this isn't about the type of game being built, but HOW they're built. Basically: game engine with integrated multiplayer tools or social components or developer modules is simply cheaper. AI aiding the devs in generating maps or content can also significantly cut costs of production. That means, basically, more tools in dev arsenal and more resources for developing games or thrown at new projects (I should point out that the whole article seems more like a pitch towards devs than players). Also - even with the article stating that future games will be streamed into any device, the project is painting a picture of ultimate moddability: from easily re-skinning models to potentially writing or modifying RPG scenes (sometime far in the future I assume). What that sounds to me is that in future Dragon Age we may not have to really worry about friends interrupting our play - but if we like, for example, that spiffy outfit our friend has made for that hot companion we like, all we have to do is open the client in the game and pick it within seconds. Heck, from the sound of it it seems that, at some point, we may even have access to cloud-based Frostbite tools to create not just own content for specific games, but maybe even whole games. Anyway, the more I read about this Atlas project, the more I suspect some BW folks are probably ecstatic about where this is going (regardless how many years it'd take EA to get to the optimistic grand vision in the article), because it seems like something they've dreamed about and already attempted to create in titles like Neverwinter Nights.
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 31, 2018 23:20:35 GMT
...There's a lot of assumptions here that we don't even know will materialize, or materialize in future SP games. Assumptions happen when they don't come out and tell you exactly what this means for SP games. Between this Project Atlas stuff and Anthem's development, the push seems to be toward multiplayer and "deep, meaningful social interactions" and "shared ground for friendships that span the globe" - I don't see the same vocal push towards singleplayer content. There's a difference between 'assumptions' and 'making predominantly negative assumptions of a certain kind'. Also, there's a lot of stuff mentioned in the original article that will be relevant for creating SP games that ain't necessarily about multiplayer. Basically, Atlas will allow game devs create bigger, more complex games for less money. Human resources can be moved to different areas; more complex, robust tools will be available for devs, including writers. I quote this directly from the article: "Beyond music come other forms of art, including character behavior and even raw story telling. I can’t wait to see what amazing studios like BioWare do when the legendary story tellers at their studio are paired with the power of AI to create even richer, unique, and personalized stories for the world at large." No, the context for this sentence is not MP or player content. Plus, I don't think they'd spend so much time saying how much the new tools and modules would help to PERSONALIZE our games if all they wanted was to force us into a multiplayer mush of many different tastes. What we also have to keep in mind that this is a grand vision for the future. Anthem will probably be the first game which utilizes many tools from already available toolset, but I don't think we should expect that the vision of experiences offered by Project Atlas will be fully realized next year (especially that stuff like that will also keep evolving, clearly).
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 31, 2018 23:45:34 GMT
Assumptions happen when they don't come out and tell you exactly what this means for SP games. Between this Project Atlas stuff and Anthem's development, the push seems to be toward multiplayer and "deep, meaningful social interactions" and "shared ground for friendships that span the globe" - I don't see the same vocal push towards singleplayer content. There's a difference between 'assumptions' and 'making predominantly negative assumptions of a certain kind'. Also, there's a lot of stuff mentioned in the original article that will be relevant for creating SP games that ain't necessarily about multiplayer. Basically, Atlas will allow game devs create bigger, more complex games for less money. Human resources can be moved to different areas; more complex, robust tools will be available for devs, including writers. I quote this directly from the article: "Beyond music come other forms of art, including character behavior and even raw story telling. I can’t wait to see what amazing studios like BioWare do when the legendary story tellers at their studio are paired with the power of AI to create even richer, unique, and personalized stories for the world at large." No, the context for this sentence is not MP or player content. Plus, I don't think they'd spend so much time saying enthusing how much the new tools and modules would help to PERSONALIZE our games if all they wanted was to force us into a multiplayer mush of many different tastes. What we also have to keep in mind that this is a grand vision for the future. Anthem will probably be the first game which utilizes many tools from already available toolset, but I don't think we should expect that the vision of experiences offered by Project Atlas will be fully realized next year (especially that stuff like that will also keep evolving, clearly). It's difficult for my assumptions to not be negative when so much of the article emphasizes playing with friends and the whole idea of cloud-based gaming means that you'll likely need to be online to play SP games. That's a net negative for me. I appreciate you taking a more positive stance and trying to explain things, but what does raw storytelling with the power of AI even mean? All of this is just so vague and even if it's not ready in a year or two, they're clearly excited about implementing it in the future. Which means it's probably going to impact the Dragon Age IP in some form or another. Does the emphasis on personalization and modules mean we're going to end up with Neverwinter Nights - a game with a threadbare main story that was mostly created to showcase the toolset so players could create their own modules that were totally removed from the main story? I hate to be a cynic but until they come out and tell us exactly what all of this means (unlikely), the only thing that sounds good about any of this is that it means less work for the devs, who already work their asses off.
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Post by river82 on Nov 1, 2018 0:56:19 GMT
It's difficult for my assumptions to not be negative when so much of the article emphasizes playing with friends and the whole idea of cloud-based gaming means that you'll likely need to be online to play SP games. That's a net negative for me. I appreciate you taking a more positive stance and trying to explain things, but what does raw storytelling with the power of AI even mean? All of this is just so vague and even if it's not ready in a year or two, they're clearly excited about implementing it in the future. Which means it's probably going to impact the Dragon Age IP in some form or another. Does the emphasis on personalization and modules mean we're going to end up with Neverwinter Nights - a game with a threadbare main story that was mostly created to showcase the toolset so players could create their own modules that were totally removed from the main story? I hate to be a cynic but until they come out and tell us exactly what all of this means (unlikely), the only thing that sounds good about any of this is that it means less work for the devs, who already work their asses off. EA's vision is meaningful social games. The rest is the technical side of things to bring about their vision*, which is more meaningful and social games. You have every right to be concerned because they explain this right there in the article. They explain their vision, they put their case that current technology is flawed to bring about their vision, they put forward their new tech that they hope will bring about their vision. To some people their vision sucks. *I ’m talking about games that offer living, breathing worlds that constantly evolve. You’ll play them one day, and when you come back the next, things have changed based on inputs from other players, AI, and even the real world. These new experiences will lead to deep, meaningful social interactions. The games you play, the characters you create, and the experiences you have together will create shared ground for friendships that span the globe. I believe this is a future where games become the most compelling form of entertainment. You will be able to play games with your friends anytime, anywhere, and on any device.EDITS: Changed "a lot" to "some", deleted obsolete 90s slang, included quote of EA's vision.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 1, 2018 1:24:35 GMT
It's difficult for my assumptions to not be negative when so much of the article emphasizes playing with friends and the whole idea of cloud-based gaming means that you'll likely need to be online to play SP games. That's a net negative for me. There's... not really that much about 'playing with friends' but rather social interactions or creating community across this new platform. Those are two different things than what you're suggesting it is. Clearly, Project Atlas would make MP games even bigger and better and whatevs, but it's hardly all there is and there's really no suggestion that all EA games will become MP or that we'd be forced to interact with others. Claiming such is a misunderstanding of what they're getting at. Really, the major thrust of the article is this: "While in the past, features like cloud hosting, matchmaking, marketplace, data, AI, achievements, and social were separate from the development tools in the engine, the Project Atlas platform will be able to implement all of these services natively within a unified solution." rather than "you'll be playing with friends!!". I think at least 15-20% of the article is dedicated to explaining what that means, including elaborate examples - from letting the dev team pretty easily create stuff that required a ton of resources, to creating more reactive environments and reactive music to making NPC look, sound and feel more believable and more in tune of what you - the player - are doing. Nevermind deeper ability to customize them or the game for players. Was Neverwinter Nights released yesterday? Or maybe 10 years ago? ...Or maybe more? Technology has moved leaps and bounds since then, which is basically what the entire article is about. Also - DA is already impacted by the whole thing. DAI is even a pioneer in a sense that BW implemented RPG tools into Frostbite and they've iterated on them 3 times already (with DAI, MEA and now Anthem) with the whole of EA iterating on them even more with each Frostbite game or project. The article itself mentions that many games already use elements, tools and experience gathered from working from within PA umbrella. It's a bit like with live services - some people panic about what this means for series like DA... only for Bioware devs to show up and point out that DA had been already using many live service elements. And by that they don't mean MP. Think of Dragon Age Keep - that's probably a better way to get a gist of where this is going. Imagine it even better integrated into the game. We wouldn't have to log in separately on the website - perhaps we'd be able to seamlessly set and import world states or share them with people. Same with custom PCs and other elements of games. The article mentions seamless mod integration and modding tools available from within the cloud: think how you'd be able to visit your friend's account via client and download a really cool mod that will work in your game regardless of personal settings or pick one from those recommended by the community. Would you object to that kind of 'playing with friends'? Because the article clearly offers it as a very real possibility. And I do say very real because stuff like that exists on the market already, even if not as seamlessly integrated. "Exactly" in what sense? I'm not sure what else they could exactly say to us at this point, especially given that this is clearly something new and in constant development. Should they just break the silence and assure everyone that DA franchise didn't turn into a MMO or something?
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